Rayman 3

For discussions about the Rayman series.

Moderator: English moderators

Forum rules
Please keep the forum rules and guidelines in mind when creating or replying to a topic.
PluMGMK
Aline Louïa
Posts: 36977
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:00 pm
Location: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cErgMJSgpv0
Contact:
Tings: 102580

Re: Rayman 3

Post by PluMGMK »

I guess the Hoodlums just left them lying around? Rayman finds some just sitting there, so why couldn't the Teensies as well?
Maz
El Stomacho
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:21 am
Tings: 23133

Re: Rayman 3

Post by Maz »

PluMGMK wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 7:19 am Isn't it stated that the Teensies imprisoned themselves in the cages out of politeness to the incompetent Hoodlums?
I mean, that would be possible, but it doesn't really explain why there are caged teensies in DOTK, for instance. Going by the exchange in DOTK1, the teensies seem terrified of the Knaaren; the Hoodlums are one thing, but getting voluntarily caught by Knaaren sounds strange :oops2:
FC: 54.450 (PB: 55.280) | CF: 131.900 (PB: 134.150) | BOM: 100.899 | LOTLD: 122.619 (PB: 123.839) | DOTK: 118.640 (PB: 122.070) | LS: 43.110 (PB: 43.470) | SBTC: 110.479 | HH: 120.609 | TOTL: 118.689

Total: 921.395 (old savegame, current Total: 902.045)
PluMGMK
Aline Louïa
Posts: 36977
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:00 pm
Location: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cErgMJSgpv0
Contact:
Tings: 102580

Re: Rayman 3

Post by PluMGMK »

Yeah, the presence of Hoodlum cages in DOTK makes no sense. I did think about that before, and I don't think I was ever able to come up with a convincing explanation :mefiant:
Maz
El Stomacho
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:21 am
Tings: 23133

Re: Rayman 3

Post by Maz »

On second thought, the desert does contain cans. Maybe the Hoodlums tried to take over DOTK at some point, but failed, and the cans/cages are a remnant of that.

But it would still be weird for the Hoodlums to take the cages with them :P maybe they were hoping to use the Teensies' powers? Who knows.
FC: 54.450 (PB: 55.280) | CF: 131.900 (PB: 134.150) | BOM: 100.899 | LOTLD: 122.619 (PB: 123.839) | DOTK: 118.640 (PB: 122.070) | LS: 43.110 (PB: 43.470) | SBTC: 110.479 | HH: 120.609 | TOTL: 118.689

Total: 921.395 (old savegame, current Total: 902.045)
Master
Rayman 1
Posts: 50143
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:14 am
Location: Somewhere specific, I'd assume.
Tings: 404084

Re: Rayman 3

Post by Master »

We know the Hoodlums were trying to rescue Andre from Globox, perhaps they sent over captured Teensies and other offerings in the hopes of placating the Knaaren into handing over Globox?
Hunchman801 wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2024 6:51 pm
Master wrote: Thu Sep 21, 2023 11:30 pm Makes me wonder if it'd be worth making a log of R3 version differences on the wiki.
I think a section in the Rayman 3 article about version differences would be more than welcome, yes!
Ahh ok, I can't say I know much of the version differences outside of the one or two observations I've shared in this thread, but next I'm free I'll see if I can't create some baseline page for folks to add onto.
Image
Madder
Oiseau Rouge
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:43 am
Tings: 130

Re: Rayman 3

Post by Madder »

Master wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 2:08 am We know the Hoodlums were trying to rescue Andre from Globox, perhaps they sent over captured Teensies and other offerings in the hopes of placating the Knaaren into handing over Globox?
Hunchman801 wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2024 6:51 pm
Master wrote: Thu Sep 21, 2023 11:30 pm Makes me wonder if it'd be worth making a log of R3 version differences on the wiki.
I think a section in the Rayman 3 article about version differences would be more than welcome, yes!
Ahh ok, I can't say I know much of the version differences outside of the one or two observations I've shared in this thread, but next I'm free I'll see if I can't create some baseline page for folks to add onto.
I haven't follow the whole discussion but if you want to document all major and subtle differences between al the versions of Rayman 3 you can ask to me; I know every version like the palm of my hand, from the most obvious differences to the more subtle ones (not on a technical level, but at a general level at least), especially the original Xbox version, wich everyone just sleep over it and completely ignore.

Only thing is that I still haven't played both HD versions, both for availability and because they're the most fucked up versions, but I can play them in one way or another, but even without playing them I already spotted A TON of differences (and by differences I mean "broken stuf") just by looking some gameplays.

Of course I don't count Rayman 3 GBA, wich is an entierly different game, and on top of that is not even Rayman 3, but Rayman 2 with the gameplay of Rayman 1 and some Rayman 3 stuff slapped on it at the last minute. Same for the N-Gage version, and also Hoodlums' Revange, wich is basically the true Rayman 3 GBA, except it's a pseudo sequel of Rayman 3, and it's also entierly different in terms of gameplay (well, mostly because of the isometrical view, otherwise the Rayman 3 gameplay is already there, but it's still too different from the original Rayman 3).

So yeah, I only count the 4 original releases and the 2 HD versions of Rayman 3, plus... the legendary Mac version, wich is lost in time and almost unknown, but even though I don't have it, I know someone who has it and can play it, and it's certanly something almost no one can do nowdays, for multiple reasons. So yeah, I got you covered for that one too (and if you're wondering, yes, there are differences in that version too. They're very subtle, but there are some subtle differences).
Master
Rayman 1
Posts: 50143
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:14 am
Location: Somewhere specific, I'd assume.
Tings: 404084

Re: Rayman 3

Post by Master »

Your support would be most welcome, to me the differences in Rayman 3 are far more subtle than those of Rayman 2, and I haven't got the same range of experience of playing the different versions of R3 so while I know of the odd quirk that I've brought up before, your experience is far more comprehensive.

I'll start up an article this weekend, and feel free to add what you know into it 👍
Image
Madder
Oiseau Rouge
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:43 am
Tings: 130

Re: Rayman 3

Post by Madder »

Sure thing. I don't know where do you want to write that article, but if you want to contact me just DM me either here or on Discord.
Master
Rayman 1
Posts: 50143
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:14 am
Location: Somewhere specific, I'd assume.
Tings: 404084

Re: Rayman 3

Post by Master »

It'll be as Hunch suggested, I'll set up a subsection on the Rayman 3 RayWiki article and add what I know, and you're more than welcome to add further on or just give me a shout with what you know and I'll add your knowledge to the article with due credit.
Image
Madder
Oiseau Rouge
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:43 am
Tings: 130

Re: Rayman 3

Post by Madder »

Oh I see how it is. Well like I said we can talk about it eaither here in DM or on Discord to communicate faster. There's also the RayWiki Discord server, but I'm not in that one because I never had anything to add on wiki, but I guess now I do, so we could talk about the article there. If I end up on board with the project I may even add the information myself, but you had the idea first, so I can help you on that too.

Honestly I thought of making a video for showing off all differences between al Rayman 3 versions, and maybe I'll still do that after the article, but both are projects that requires a TON of preparation, since I'll have to write all differences down somewhere and organize everything, and it would take at least a month.

I also have a lot of other projects going on and I even have to reoganize my PC before doing anything else, so if you want my help we have to prepare better because it's actually not something that can be done in a day or two (if you want to make an article as good as it possibly be, that is).
Master
Rayman 1
Posts: 50143
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:14 am
Location: Somewhere specific, I'd assume.
Tings: 404084

Re: Rayman 3

Post by Master »

Ah my apologies, I feel like I've trivialised and underestimated the scope of the task. I will admit as stated before I don't have much knowledge of the differences between Rayman 3 versions as I have Rayman 2 versions, and where I have found differences in Rayman 2, I've stuck with compiling categorised lists (for instance I recently played Rayman 3D and updated the article with some new differences I'd come across that weren't previously logged).

My expectation was that the same would be done for Rayman 3, effectively I was going to note gameplay and graphical differences in categorised lists (for example I'd have had a bullet point explaining the differences in Grimace behaviour, another to do with graphical quirks and differences such as that weird floating wooden thing in TOTL part 1, a bullet point talking about the "Rayman, wake up!" line missing in the PC version, and so on...). When it comes to items involving scoring or deeper gameplay mechanics, I'll admit I'm completely ignorant. Going off the conversation we're having, it sounds like the approach I had in mind doesn't seem to be adequate in order to effectively communicate the differences, in which case I'd be happy to change approach, we also have the RayWiki YouTube channel as a resource too if videos help.

I apologise if I'm being entitled, that wasn't my intent. I don't presume to be owed your time and that there are other things that must and should take precedence. In my case, 10 years ago I could've easily dedicated time to something like this without any issues, but I'm at the point in my life now where IRL commitments make such a thing unlikely, it's the reason why I only tend to show up here every so often. At the end of the day I'd much rather you be able to spend your time where it's needed and where you want to, please don't take my approach here as a demand or obligation.
Image
Droolie
Mr Sax
Posts: 5158
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:31 pm
Tings: 61810

Re: Rayman 3

Post by Droolie »

Hi! Sorry for interrupting the current conversation, I wanted to quickly post something that I shared on Discord earlier this month.

The PS2 dev build (2002/09/06) of Rayman 3 contains an interesting object called YAM_Debugator. The object only exists in the Land of the Livid Dead level in that build (You can find it in raymap here). If you check its scripts, you will find some interesting text indicating it was built for a very old version of Rayman 3. It features references to powers mentioned in early scripts, such as the "razibus", and mentions of "air points" indicating a more R2-like underwater swimming system.

It's clearly a debug menu, however we never checked it before, as the debug confirm/back inputs for it aren't defined in this build, and the object's AI is turned off using a CustomBit flag.

Recently I ended up modding the game to get it to work:
https://streamable.com/7ckvng
https://streamable.com/js7ed7

However, considering that this menu was built for a much older version of Rayman 3, only part of the menu's functions actually do anything in this build... :(

The first menu allows checking Rayman's speed, as well as his "helicopter points", "air points" and "plum juice" (yes, this was a meter in old R3 apparently). And something about a ring.

The second menu allows adding to Rayman's current/max health, though the option for his current health doesn't match final R3 anymore. More interestingly, it also has various options to deal different types of damage to Rayman. Including some unused ones like electricity and drowning. Though many just trigger the regular damage animation. This is not shown in the video, but when used while Rayman is swimming in the bit of water below the bridge, the "toxic liquid" damage type allows Rayman to continue swimming normally without losing health, until he suddenly dies about 2-3 seconds later. Other damage types do not act like this.

The third menu would toggle Rayman's old powers (multiple punches, curved punch, "razibus", thermal punch, power upgrade, speed upgrade). These same bits have been reused for the costumes, so now it triggers those (and slows the game down really badly too for some reason) - but the current costumes do not correspond to the old powers, so this was a a bit of a letdown...

Then there's a debug menu for the fist that shows the current fist's power, whether it's curved & locked on, etc. and has some options that do nothing in this version of R3.

And then a "swiss knife" menu that doesn't seem to do anything either.

Sadly, the menu only works in this one area in front of the tower (due to only being in this sector). My theory is that the object was placed here because this was the first area they built for this level, and they only expanded the level later on.

If anyone wants to try this, I can upload the modded ISO. :)
PluMGMK
Aline Louïa
Posts: 36977
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:00 pm
Location: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cErgMJSgpv0
Contact:
Tings: 102580

Re: Rayman 3

Post by PluMGMK »

Very interesting! Pity this wasn't included in any other available builds :( That toxic liquid business is particularly intriguing… :mefiant:
Hunchman801
Bad Rayman
Posts: 83734
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:50 pm
Location: Paris, France
Contact:
Tings: 608849

Re: Rayman 3

Post by Hunchman801 »

Thanks for sharing! An interesting find indeed, though I guess we're gonna need to get our hands on an even earlier version to really find out more about those cut features. Who knows, maybe in 2025? :hap:

As for the list of differences between versions of Rayman 3, and since it appears to be a more daunting task than originally thought, maybe it would make sense to begin with a shared document where you guys can dump about anything that comes to mind, and only worry later about how to organize it for the wiki?
Image
Madder
Oiseau Rouge
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:43 am
Tings: 130

Re: Rayman 3

Post by Madder »

Master wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:30 am Ah my apologies, I feel like I've trivialised and underestimated the scope of the task. I will admit as stated before I don't have much knowledge of the differences between Rayman 3 versions as I have Rayman 2 versions, and where I have found differences in Rayman 2, I've stuck with compiling categorised lists (for instance I recently played Rayman 3D and updated the article with some new differences I'd come across that weren't previously logged).

My expectation was that the same would be done for Rayman 3, effectively I was going to note gameplay and graphical differences in categorised lists (for example I'd have had a bullet point explaining the differences in Grimace behaviour, another to do with graphical quirks and differences such as that weird floating wooden thing in TOTL part 1, a bullet point talking about the "Rayman, wake up!" line missing in the PC version, and so on...). When it comes to items involving scoring or deeper gameplay mechanics, I'll admit I'm completely ignorant. Going off the conversation we're having, it sounds like the approach I had in mind doesn't seem to be adequate in order to effectively communicate the differences, in which case I'd be happy to change approach, we also have the RayWiki YouTube channel as a resource too if videos help.

I apologise if I'm being entitled, that wasn't my intent. I don't presume to be owed your time and that there are other things that must and should take precedence. In my case, 10 years ago I could've easily dedicated time to something like this without any issues, but I'm at the point in my life now where IRL commitments make such a thing unlikely, it's the reason why I only tend to show up here every so often. At the end of the day I'd much rather you be able to spend your time where it's needed and where you want to, please don't take my approach here as a demand or obligation.
No need for all these apologies, I've been wanting to this ultimate Rayman 3 versions comparasion for quite a long time, and I'm still willing to do that, all I'm saying is that, while I have a lot of knoledge about it already, it's best to organazie everything so that we can keep track of everything, especially since we're dealing with lots of differences between all the versions, whih most of them are extremely subtale and very hard to notice, so even though I remember all of them, it's best to do some sort of list to not lose track of them and also add other differences if we happen to find any, like Henchman801 just suggested. If you want you can contact me in private either on the forum or on Discord, so that we can organize the project in one way or another, and also involve other members that could provide other informations as well, not only on a general level, but on a technical level too, if that's ever needed.

Btw I don't really have any other important project on which I'm working on right now, and this one will take a lot of time to build up anyway, but it's not something we have to do in one go, so we can start putting the base for it when you want. I also cleaned up my PC, so I could organize all the stuff for the project even better.

On a last note: I have to inform you that the only person I knew that had the Mac version of Rayman 3 and was able to play it... well, his old Mac just broke, so he can't play it anymore, and that's really inconvenient, but I'm sure we will figure out something for that.
Hunchman801
Bad Rayman
Posts: 83734
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:50 pm
Location: Paris, France
Contact:
Tings: 608849

Re: Rayman 3

Post by Hunchman801 »

Glad to hear that you're still interested in working on this! As I mentioned above, the easiest way to start is probably to start documenting all the differences you can think of in a shared Google Doc. It's probably too early to ask ourselves how to format it at this point. :)
Image
Maz
El Stomacho
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:21 am
Tings: 23133

Re: Rayman 3

Post by Maz »

It's not much, but if you haven't found it yourself yet, this post lists a couple of console differences related to speedruning, glitches especially. Not sure if including glitches in the comparison is intended, but they are platform differences (not to mention ones "casual" R3 players wouldn't really know of), so I figured I'd just share the link.
FC: 54.450 (PB: 55.280) | CF: 131.900 (PB: 134.150) | BOM: 100.899 | LOTLD: 122.619 (PB: 123.839) | DOTK: 118.640 (PB: 122.070) | LS: 43.110 (PB: 43.470) | SBTC: 110.479 | HH: 120.609 | TOTL: 118.689

Total: 921.395 (old savegame, current Total: 902.045)
Madder
Oiseau Rouge
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:43 am
Tings: 130

Re: Rayman 3

Post by Madder »

Yes, I'm aware of the glitches and speedrun technics differences in all the versions, and yes, they do absolutely count for the ultimate R3 version comparasion. Although I'm not exactly a R3 speedrunner expert, even if I did try some of those glitches, mostly the easiest ones (meaning that I never menage to do the more complex ones, spcifically the ones only doable on the GC version). Anyway, I didn't know that post, so it's nice to have some sort of list for this topic, although if I wanna know even more I'd probably ask to Rib and Robin directly, and other R3 speedrunners as well, since they surely know even more about this that will probably be worth to mention too.
Hunchman801
Bad Rayman
Posts: 83734
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:50 pm
Location: Paris, France
Contact:
Tings: 608849

Re: Rayman 3

Post by Hunchman801 »

Looks like an early build of Rayman 3 HD was published this morning: https://archive.org/details/rayman-3-hd ... -360-debug
A prototype of Rayman 3 HD from December 2, 2011.
This prototype features many changes to the final version, most notably using a completely different logo on the menu. Additionally, it contains an extensive debug menu with many features.


Thanks to BravoSix_Echo_One for providing this for release!
Image
Image
Image
DaveRattlehead
Estellia
Posts: 1582
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:00 pm
Location: Valencia, Spain
Tings: 21786

Re: Rayman 3

Post by DaveRattlehead »

Sometimes I wonder how Rayman stuff can still be leaked after so many years. It will be curious to see what's different, although I don't expect big changes as it's a remaster. Maybe the early build won't have so many bugs, who knows :lol:
Post Reply