Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

For discussions about the Rayman series.

Moderator: English moderators

Forum rules
Please keep the forum rules and guidelines in mind when creating or replying to a topic.
ItzalDrake
Reflux
Posts: 615
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:44 pm
Location: Somewhere in the pizza-pasta country
Contact:
Tings: 8578

Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by ItzalDrake »

I can't believe it but 68 prototypes of Rayman 3 for GBA got leaked, and 3 of them refer to the game as Rayman 2 before it was changed to Rayman 3, which explains why the final game has so much content from Rayman 2! :D

ImageImageImage
If you're interested you can download the prototypes here!
Hello! Image
Hunchman801
Bad Rayman
Posts: 83734
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:50 pm
Location: Paris, France
Contact:
Tings: 608849

Re: Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by Hunchman801 »

68 prototypes? This is going to take our team of investigators a lot of time to uncover all the differences between them and the final game. Regardless, I very much look forward to finding out what unused is hidden in there. :D
Image
Elite Piranha
Aline Louïa
Posts: 3109
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:47 am
Location: Ly's Palace
Tings: 122570

Re: Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by Elite Piranha »

:waaahhh: :waaahhh: :waaahhh: :waaahhh: :waaahhh:

The documents look interesting, however it's kind of weird that they use WordArt, it makes the documents look less official (maybe because, as a kid, I used to insert a lot of WordArt when making documents for school).
Steo
Globox
Posts: 33004
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:57 pm
Location: Globox Village
Tings: 91477

Re: Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by Steo »

I just heard about this and I thought I was interpreting it wrong for a moment. 68 is a crazy amount, and I'm sure people will have a lot of fun with these! :D

EDIT: Also I thought that it was rumoured before that the game was supposed to be called Rayman 2, but had some changes and was renamed to Rayman 3 instead, since the console and PC versions of Rayman 3 were releasing around the same time.
Image
FC: 40210 | CF: 103059 | BOM: 94388 | LOTLD: 120486 | DOTK: 110450 | LS: 40810 | SBTC: 99693 | HH: 100028 | TOTL: 100563

TOTAL: 809687
Retrofuge
Reflux
Posts: 99
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:18 am
Location: Land of the Livid Dead
Tings: 8045

Re: Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by Retrofuge »

It's pretty insane there's over 60 prototypes of the same game. I don't think I have ever seen something like this before. It's going to take a lot of digging to uncover everything. How exciting! :D
Image

I exist, just finding stuff of interest.
PluMGMK
Aline Louïa
Posts: 36977
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:00 pm
Location: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cErgMJSgpv0
Contact:
Tings: 102580

Re: Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by PluMGMK »

Well Dave, looks like you're well on the way to getting your wish! :mrgreen:

So the game's number was bumped to three, like Netscape 5 suddenly became "Netscape 6" so they'd look like they were ahead of Microsoft with IE5 :bad:
DaveRattlehead
Estellia
Posts: 1582
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:00 pm
Location: Valencia, Spain
Tings: 21786

Re: Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by DaveRattlehead »

My little wish would have never thought about 68 different prototypes. I like this Christmas tradition :lol:

Thanks for sharing this Itzal! I'm curious about the cut content we can find here :bad:

Now that I think about it... Maybe it's a coincidence, but there have been lots of prototypes and projects leaked during the last month :confus:
Steo
Globox
Posts: 33004
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:57 pm
Location: Globox Village
Tings: 91477

Re: Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by Steo »

Retrofuge wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:31 pm It's pretty insane there's over 60 prototypes of the same game. I don't think I have ever seen something like this before. It's going to take a lot of digging to uncover everything. How exciting! :D
Yeah it's insane. To be honest I really thought I was misreading the number at first because it sounds farfetched. Looking forward to seeing what comes of this also, it is indeed exciting! :D

I was also only recently talking to Greenness in the archiving server about how much could potentially still be undiscovered regarding Rayman, only for this to surface days later. We had been saying that it's amazing what devs just have stored in their homes, and people would love to see that content.
PluMGMK wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:37 pm So the game's number was bumped to three, like Netscape 5 suddenly became "Netscape 6" so they'd look like they were ahead of Microsoft with IE5 :bad:
By that logic, Apple or Samsung could have just kept their phone one number ahead every time so it would seem newer. :P
It's a shame that some people would probably fall for that. :oops2:

Thanks also for sharing this Itz, it's always appreciated how quickly you discover these things once they surface. :mrgreen:
Image
FC: 40210 | CF: 103059 | BOM: 94388 | LOTLD: 120486 | DOTK: 110450 | LS: 40810 | SBTC: 99693 | HH: 100028 | TOTL: 100563

TOTAL: 809687
DaveRattlehead
Estellia
Posts: 1582
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:00 pm
Location: Valencia, Spain
Tings: 21786

Re: Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by DaveRattlehead »

If you look at the R2BGA_FTS_Sound document, one of their main concerns was Try to respect as much as possible the spirit of Rayman in creating new stuff. I wonder if that's a concern for Ubisoft anymore :fou:
Elite Piranha wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:18 pm :waaahhh: :waaahhh: :waaahhh: :waaahhh: :waaahhh:

The documents look interesting, however it's kind of weird that they use WordArt, it makes the documents look less official (maybe because, as a kid, I used to insert a lot of WordArt when making documents for school).
Graphic-design-is-my-passion.jpg
Graphic-design-is-my-passion.jpg (38.89 KiB) Viewed 1636 times
hoodlumsworld
Aurora
Posts: 1138
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:12 am
Tings: 15055

Re: Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by hoodlumsworld »

Look at what people have found already!

The Woods of Light:
The Woods of Light.png
The Woods of Light.png (18.29 KiB) Viewed 1528 times
The Echoing Caves:
The Echoing Caves.png
The Echoing Caves.png (18.15 KiB) Viewed 1528 times
Some unknown creature:
Unknown creature.png
Unknown creature.png (16.13 KiB) Viewed 1528 times
lyndo64
El Luchador
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2023 5:57 pm
Location: The longest shortcut
Tings: 20130

Re: Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by lyndo64 »

Holy crap that's amazing! :waaahhh: Nice to finally get proof that it was supposed to be R2 all along! (Even if it was glaringly obvious already, :lol:)

Here are some early cutscenes, I love how crusty these look :lol:
Attachments
bg1.png
bg1.png (35.93 KiB) Viewed 1465 times
bg2.png
bg2.png (34.13 KiB) Viewed 1465 times
bg3.png
bg3.png (37.37 KiB) Viewed 1465 times
bg4.png
bg4.png (39.76 KiB) Viewed 1465 times
bg5.png
bg5.png (30.6 KiB) Viewed 1465 times
I get to alphabetize my sausages :proud:
Steo
Globox
Posts: 33004
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:57 pm
Location: Globox Village
Tings: 91477

Re: Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by Steo »

I honestly think I prefer Rayman's sprites in these compared to what we ended up with.
Image
FC: 40210 | CF: 103059 | BOM: 94388 | LOTLD: 120486 | DOTK: 110450 | LS: 40810 | SBTC: 99693 | HH: 100028 | TOTL: 100563

TOTAL: 809687
hoodlumsworld
Aurora
Posts: 1138
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:12 am
Tings: 15055

Re: Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by hoodlumsworld »

Here are the latest discoveries shared by RayCarrot on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/RayCarrot/status/17 ... 9644184020
Here's a thread where I go through some interesting points from the game design docs in the Rayman 3 GBA leak. There's a lot there, so I won't be going through everything, but rather picking out interesting things I come across.

Starting of, there's a document on things to keep in mind when creating animations on the GBA. The tool they used is an internal one named A2dEditor. That name is similar to what the CPA engine (Rayman 2 and 3's engine) uses, where it's named A3D.

Image

One of the main limitations when designing graphics for a GBA games is palettes. Here they outline things to keep in mind when creating animations, such as reusing palettes. It also mentions how exporting a palette from Photoshop to the GBA will lose some color precision.

Image

For Rayman, there are sheets with lists of all the animations, including animation names and descriptions. These also seem to include unused ones - notice how Clark from the unused Clark boss fight is here!

Image

Let's move on to the Final Title Specification document for Rayman 2 - this is where we get interesting information about the game! Sadly it's mostly in French, so I've had to translate it 😅

Image

There are several comparisons drawn to Rayman 1, more specifically Rayman Advance. Even though that was made by a different studio they still want to try and improve upon it, such as limiting screen crunch. One such way is to reduce Rayman's sprite height.

Image
Image
Image
Image

Apparently the Mode7 kart race levels originally had you riding a walking shell. That makes a lot more sense in the world of Rayman 2!
The flying shell in the final boss would also shoot missiles. Sounds a lot more fun!

Image
Image
Image

Here are plans for the 4 hubs and their levels, detailing the game progression.

Image
Image
Image
Image

The Mega Havoc levels you unlock after collecting all lums in a world were originally bonus levels where you'd flip the stage upside-down!

Image

Most of the proposed bosses are the same, except for Clark who was replaced by the Scaleman.

Image

A lot of early ideas for level layouts here!

Image

Lists of level elements to use. Several unused ones, such as tornados that lift you up in the air.
Also details how they all behave.

Image
Image
Image

Here they outline risks with the game and what to do about them. One thing they did was bring over Eric Pelatan from the Montpellier team to help with the style of the game.
They were also early on aware of the issue of releasing this alongside Rayman 3 on consoles.

Image
Image

Here they compare the game to other games released during that time, and how Rayman 2 GBA will improve upon what they did.

Image

A lot of marketing graphs for other games and Rayman's popularity in different regions. Are these public knowledge? Interesting seeing how Rayman is much more popular in Europe than the US! I always suspected that was the case.

Image
Image
Image

Okay I need a break now 😅 I'll add more to this thread later! There is a lot more to go through!
L.M. Murphy
Magicien Ptizetre
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:27 am
Tings: 2446

Re: Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by L.M. Murphy »

Steo wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 10:43 am I honestly think I prefer Rayman's sprites in these compared to what we ended up with.
I do too, and I would love to see them modded into the final game.
Image
Rayman...forever?
Hunchman801
Bad Rayman
Posts: 83734
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:50 pm
Location: Paris, France
Contact:
Tings: 608849

Re: Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by Hunchman801 »

L.M. Murphy wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:40 pm
Steo wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 10:43 am I honestly think I prefer Rayman's sprites in these compared to what we ended up with.
I do too, and I would love to see them modded into the final game.
Maybe that's an idea for RayCarrot's recreation of the game. :mrgreen:
Image
hoodlumsworld
Aurora
Posts: 1138
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:12 am
Tings: 15055

Re: Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by hoodlumsworld »

More information on the docs courtesy of RayCarrot on Twitter:
I'm back - let's continue! There's a folder with mockups for the levels in the game, all very different from the final game. But wait, what is this? Whale Bay? That's not in the game...!

Here's a document detailing all the dialog in the game. Very different from the final game, instead being very close to Rayman 2.
But what more is we get Ly giving Rayman the power to swim after defeating Jano! This was to be used in Whale Bay.

Image
Image

Apparently Rayman would run into Clark in The Precipice, from which you'd have to go to the Cave of Bad Dreams to get the elixir for him.

Image
Image

Here's another document with boss documentations. Some of these are a bit different, specifically the final fight like I mentioned before.

Image
Image

Here we can see how the swimming would have looked like in the game!

Image

More game hub layouts, this time it appears to be an earlier version of it? Whale Bay is here now.

Image
Image
Image
Image

Here's a development timeline and some key points for the game

Image
Image

You would be able to move down and hang off of thin platforms. I already found some animations for this in the early roms!

Image

360 degree purple lum swings, exactly like in Rayman Redemption 😲 Ryemanni yet again accidentally implements unused features!

Image

Here it details enemies from Rayman 1, most likely for inspiration.

Image

Time for another break. I'll be back later with more! Still a lot left! 🙂

Well that was a quick break! Let's continue with some graphs.

Image

Here they were looking at the balance in Rayman 1 to compare against.

Image

Here are graphs I don't really know how they work or what they're for, but they sure were trying to mathematically calculate the balance of the game! And the humor. That seemed very important to them.

Image
Image
Image
Image

Alright, let's move on to more personal stuff! 3 of the devs wrote post mortems for the development. They're quite interesting. Let's start with Jacque Langlois.

Image

Since it's in French I'll just summarize a bit what he said. I've had to translate it, so I can't verify it's fully accurate.

- He complains about the communication between teams not being handled well.

- He talks positively about the engine having been worked on from developing earlier games.
- A lot of complaints about the testing process. Poor communication, lacking descriptions and too much focus on language bugs.
- He liked the body shot power and new abilities in the game.

- Rayman's hitpoint system was not well handled.
- Adding effects to improve the atmosphere, like butterflies, bats etc., were handled late and not planned well.

- He praises Eric Pelatan for his work on graphics in the game, making the levels come alive. However, he caused other artists have less to do themselves.
- He praises the work on animations, but also mentions how the quality on some animations, like bosses, were lacking.

Next we have the post mortem by Marc-Olivier Riel. In French too, so I'll summarize again.

- He also mentions how effects were added late in development.
- He talks about several technical issues with the music manager, actor code etc.
- He wishes they'd used a nicer font.

- He praises the engine for making the job easier to do.
- The multiplayer was easier to do than he thought.
- The GameCube connectivity took time, but without too many issues.
- Things were not clearly outlined at the start, making planning hard.

- Too many changes were made late in development, making testing hard.
- He complains that insta-kill death pits are the main way you die, making the hit-points system not well utilized.
- Game was not well balanced - he thinks the last world is the easiest.

- He praises the graphics and animations, but did not like the lava splash under plums or the vehicle in the Mode7 race levels.
- Too much focus on language bugs and not enough on gameplay bugs.
- Testing process didn't go very smoothly.

He also mentions some Nintendo-Ubisoft checklist they used which was hard to follow.

Now for the last post mortem, this time by Pascal Lalancette. And would you know, it's in English!

Like the other devs he praises the tools

Image

I appreciate him praising his team, but praising people for working all night to get things done? Yikes.

Image

Several planning issues during development

Image
Image
Image
Image

Here he complaints about motivation from some team members and how he is happy they left the company...

Image

More issues with testing

Image

And here it is, him discussing the change from Rayman 2 to Rayman 3 and how it hurt the game a bit.

Image

And his conclusion along with some stats about the development

Image
Image

And that's it for the post mortems. I'll be back later with event more stuff from this!

Let's finish this now! Next folder is for test analysis, written by different members of the dev team. These aren't as interesting. They outline many issues with the testing process, where they didn't have any communication with the testers and how...

...they felt the testers mostly focused on language issues rather than gameplay ones. One of them mentions examples of things that should have been listed for testing, such as testing the climbing camera, testing jumping over the boulder that chases you etc.

Many important bugs, such as with the purple lums, came in way too late during development. They also discuss what could be improved in the future, such as updating design docs during development, not waiting until the end to integrate languages and more.

"The "Nintendo and Ubi Soft Standards for Game Boy Advance V.2.5" will be released after the approval of Rayman 3 GBA."

I wonder what that is? There are several mentions of some Ubisoft and Nintendo checklist for GBA games, which the devs complain about not being easy to use.

Image

Here are some common issues one dev lists:
- Actors disappearing due to incorrectly placed activation zones.
- Bad tile placements.
- Sound looping issues.

Now let's move on from testing to some more technical details. Here's a doc on how to create actor AI.

Image
Image

As someone who's spent a lot of time reverse engineering the engine for my PC port this is so interesting! But I get that this won't mean much to most people so I won't spend more time on it.

Image
Image

Next document is about creating special effects on the GBA, something I feel Rayman 3 GBA does very well.

Image

Here it details window effects, such as the circle transition you see in the game between levels.

Image
Image

There are concepts for many other effects too

Image

Here they look at effects from other games, and they seem to be using emulators such as VisualBoyAdvance to check them out.

Image
Image

Next up they were trying to profile how much space the game would use on a rom. Here's a table with estimates.

Image
Image

They did the same with the save data. Interestingly orange lums from Mode7 levels seem to be counted separately? They were separate in a previous level document too.

Image
Image

Lastly are several docs on the sounds. That's not really my strong suit so I don't have much to say here, but they mention how they used the Rayman 2 N64 Midis as a base, which was pretty obvious.

Image
Image
Image

And that's a wrap! Thanks for reading all of this 🙂 Hopefully this can be documented on RayWiki soon enough. I might also make another thread on the contents of the rom later on.
lyndo64
El Luchador
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2023 5:57 pm
Location: The longest shortcut
Tings: 20130

Re: Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by lyndo64 »

That document is insane, hopefully more can be datamined from the prototypes, there's so much to be discovered!
I get to alphabetize my sausages :proud:
The Jonster
Joe
Posts: 33997
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:15 am
Location: The realm of Mario Karting
Tings: 77925

Re: Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by The Jonster »

Oh my gosh, that's so many prototypes! It's going to take me hours to read through the documents shared here. Man this is awesome! 2024's starting off great so far! :D
Always be true to yourself.
Image
Sigs by Steo and R4Y_ANC3L
Mortamon Saturn
Razoff
Posts: 2407
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:12 pm
Location: Croisée des Rêves
Contact:
Tings: 32985

Re: Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by Mortamon Saturn »

That's such a great discovery! I started reading a bit through RayCarrot's tweets earlier today and I'll give a more in-depth look when I'll have the time. :mrgreen:
The RayWiki editors will have a lot on their plate, especially the non-French ones when there's so much to translate! :noel: :oops2:

So they were self-aware about the whole "Rayman 2/3" thing after all! Between that and a few other things, seems like Ubeysoft really does enjoy chaos in their game development :hap: :sad:
If it wasn't for the marketing, we could have got a proper handheld adaptation of Rayman 2!... No, Rayman 2 Forever doesn't count. :noelnoir:


Btw, someone should try to remake those Rayman 2 2D sprites in Rayman ReDesigner as custom skins! :D
Vive Rayman et les prunes !:angel:

o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o

Image

It's time to Rock 'n' Run!
Steo
Globox
Posts: 33004
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:57 pm
Location: Globox Village
Tings: 91477

Re: Over 60 Rayman 3 (GBA) prototypes got leaked!

Post by Steo »

Oh wow, that's actually a lot of information in those post mortems. It seems like the team really weren't on the same page a lot, and a lot of the changes made things very difficult for them. It even mentions finding really serious bugs at the last minute while the game was due to release, and that might even explain why there are bugs such as the one where you can crawl between steps and softlock yourself.

Same with the game never saving after you complete the last level, so it never unlocks the 2D Nightmare game.

All in all though, given how they said they never even had that much experience with something this big, they managed to make a pretty good game despite the flaws it has. It definitely makes me even think about how important communication is when it comes do game development, because the programmers need to know what's going on too. Those last minute changes though such as changing the name of the game to Rayman 3, and the fact they literally had to redo the level structure and backbone over 3 times. All of this sounds like development hell, so it's amazing that the game turned out as good and functional as it did despite all those odds.
Image
FC: 40210 | CF: 103059 | BOM: 94388 | LOTLD: 120486 | DOTK: 110450 | LS: 40810 | SBTC: 99693 | HH: 100028 | TOTL: 100563

TOTAL: 809687
Post Reply