Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

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deton24
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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by deton24 »

Thanks for your participation in the topic.

Thanks to that you look for bit-perfect rip, I can achieve better results in remastering with such files than with line-in rip.
But Kooz DC R2 untouched rip sounded really the best in comparison to PS2 direct rip, or PC, played with no processing, or only with simple EQ and noise sharpening, dynamic compressor, limiter. Even than direct DC ripped files which I unpacked some time ago.

Aliasing.. I heard something about it probably in matter of methods of resampling, nothing more. Anyway, nice piece of information.
So we have stucked? Hmm.... No good.
At least PSX version plays 44kHz fine. Pity that nothing can be just copied from there, some sound libraries or anything. Or maybe other game on the same engine on PC will have proper 44kHz playback, and there will be some useful files.
Not only just changing value in R2 binary, it may be also sound library not capable of handling this, or something else.
Regards.

kooz
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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by kooz »

Hey Synthesis, welcome to the party! 8)

It looks like you beat me to the punch, haha. I just spent the last couple of hours working with Cheat Engine, and ultimately came to the same conclusion... Changing offset 004B108A from 2256 to 44AC appears to do nothing. Rather than spend time with recording and spectral analysis, I just used Total Recorder (Virtual Audio Cable would work as well) which immediately identified the game's output as 16 bit, 22050Hz, stereo (still).

I'm disappointed, but can't help but feel like we have a much better chance at making this work, vs. trying to reverse engineer the file encoding. Either by the just the efforts of our little community here, or with yet another cry for help to some of the veterans over at Xentax, etc.

deton24 wrote:Or maybe other game on the same engine on PC will have proper 44kHz playback
I addressed this somewhat a few posts back. I tried both retail and beta versions of TT, as well as Rayman 2. I also tried "F1 Racing Simulation" and "Monaco Grand Prix Racing Simulation 2," both of which were released around the same time and are known to use the BNM format. All of these seem to be afflicted by the same 22050Hz sample rate output.

That said, there are probably more games using the same/similar audio engine. There may still be some merit in looking at more Ubi games from that era.

deton24
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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by deton24 »

Hmm... If it would be only possible to replace BNM audio files of the game capable to play 44kHz, eg. some console version, by the TC audio files, and then record.

But usually it's harder to import properly other files back to game files, than extract them. Although TC files even haven't been even extracted yet. I don't really think it's gonna increase quality of them, unpacked R2 files doesn't sound especially good.

There is a cool story in Rayman 3 topic where Ribshark just inserted Rayman 2 PS2 disk during playing Rayman 3 PS2, and game started to play distorted random R2 music segments depend on a place of the game.
But it's rather some different file format than TC, and sound was distorted. Curiosity :) http://raymanpc.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... 0#p1149675

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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by kooz »

Well... that didn't take long after all! :mryellow:

I started messing around with SND_CPA.INI, monitoring Error.log every successful or failed launch... After some googling, I came across this page, which gave me the idea to try specifying something different in the following section:

Code: Select all

[DLL_Sxd]
Unconditionnal=None
The post suggests changing "None" to "WAVd3" to enable surround-sound. Making this change in TT simply produced no audio, as the driver is not present in TT's DLL folder:

Code: Select all

=========================================================================================
Warning error: Channel Error: 1988 (0x7c4)
From Moteur sonore ACP - Version M5.5.4: 'Sound Module for CPA' of Jan 26 1998,
in the source file 'x:\cpa\tempgrp\SND\src\win95\snderr.cxx' (line:241):

-> "Cannot load DLL " <-

DLL\WAVd3bvr.dll
=========================================================================================
While WAVd3bvr.dll may not be present within TT's driver folder, it does happen to be one of those included with Rayman 2. Sadly, after copying this over, I encountered even more errors, and once again, no sound:

Code: Select all

=========================================================================================
Warning error: Channel Error: 1024 (0x400)
From Moteur sonore ACP - Version M5.5.4: 'Sound Module for CPA' of Jan 26 1998,
in the source file 'x:\cpa\tempgrp\SND\src\win95\snderr.cxx' (line:237):

-> "API-System error" <-

Function cannot be loaded dynamically:
_SND_fn_vGetHModuleR
from module C:\UbiSoft\Ed\MaiD3Dvr.exe

=========================================================================================

Explicit request for clear of the last error


=========================================================================================
Warning error: Channel Error: 1024 (0x400)
From Moteur sonore ACP - Version M5.5.4: 'Sound Module for CPA' of Jan 26 1998,
in the source file 'x:\cpa\tempgrp\SND\src\win95\snderr.cxx' (line:237):

-> "API-System error" <-

Function cannot be loaded dynamically:
_SND_fn_vGetHModuleR
from module C:\UbiSoft\Ed\MaiD3Dvr.exe

=========================================================================================

Explicit request for clear of the last error

SNA Fix Loading OK ******************************
 ********** Level Size  : 2016757 ********
 Level : 2016757  Memory avaliable : 129589248
Total Texture allocated in Local : 2016757 ,in AGP memory : 0 *********
=========================================================================================
Intrigued by the possibility of other R2-specific drivers I could attempt to load, I copied all of the extra DLLs from R2 over to TT. Seeing another similarly named driver adjacent to WAVd3BVR.dll, I made the following change:

Code: Select all

[DLL_Sxd]
Unconditionnal=WAVa1
Lo and behold... upon successful launch of TT, Total Recorder is now reporting a 44.1kHz 16 bit stereo audio source!

The only thing left now is to have a listen, and take a peek at the spectral analysis... What wondrous mysteries might this short clip behold? :beurk:

Image
:shock:

Expect a new rip pack followed by the v3 soundtrack in the coming days.
Attachments
skitest.7z
(888.46 KiB) Downloaded 64 times

Droolie
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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by Droolie »

Haha, you beat me to it. :D
I'd only just found out that the audio output happens in plugins, namely the DLL_Sxd one, as the only sound plugins that contain calls to WinMM are the WAVPW* and WAVMW* dll files. I was looking for a way to force them to output the full frequency range but it looks like you found one that does that already. :P
I guess changing this dll to the one you used in Rayman 2 will help Synthesis play his 44kHz files too. :)

Very nice work! Though it's a little disappointing that there aren't that many frequencies above 11kHz after all.

Synthesis
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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by Synthesis »

Neat!

You might also check out the [DLL_Adpcm] section in SND_CPA.INI. The only APM drivers that come with R2 are APMmx and APMP5.

Unfortunately, I couldn't get a proper 44.1kHz playback with either of those, even with WAVa1 (which, in my opinion, has only an effect on uncompressed .wav files, including those stored in .bnm soundbanks) and the hex modifications (BA [22 56] -> [44 AC]).
The only good thing is that APMP5 removes the DC offset (which is probably caused by incorrect downsampled decoding).

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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by Droolie »

Synthesis wrote:Neat!

You might also check out the [DLL_Adpcm] section in SND_CPA.INI. The only APM drivers that come with R2 are APMmx and APMP5.

Unfortunately, I couldn't get a proper 44.1kHz playback with either of those, even with WAVa1 (which, in my opinion, has only an effect on uncompressed .wav files, including those stored in .bnm soundbanks) and the hex modifications (BA [22 56] -> [44 AC]).
The only good thing is that APMP5 removes the DC offset (which is probably caused by incorrect downsampled decoding).
I'm pretty sure the mixing is handled by [DLL_Sxd] though. Only those drivers contain calls to WinMM, and exclusively for mixing/waveOut functions. If kooz was able to remove the downsampling using this driver, then that confirms it, as the files we were trying to play are compressed MPEG files read by other drivers. Seeing as the ADPCM drivers don't contain any calls to WinMM (which also handles ADPCM) the output should be handled by [DLL_Sxd] as well, so I don't see why this wouldn't help, unless the ADPCM drivers are decoding it as 22kHz even before mixing.

kooz
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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by kooz »

Drolpiraat wrote:Haha, you beat me to it. :D
Wow, that's the second time today for both of us, haha... I suppose great minds DO think alike! :hehe:
Drolpiraat wrote:it's a little disappointing that there aren't that many frequencies above 11kHz after all.
Let's see what the rest of the soundtrack looks like before we rush to judgement. :| This was just a very small test sample, after all.

Honestly though, I'm thrilled even if the rest of the files only have a similarly modest improvement in fidelity. This will be the highest quality TT OST anyone outside of Ubi staff or Eric Chevalier himself has ever heard! :shock:

deton24
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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by deton24 »

I afraid that he would just laugh of us, saying: "Here, here I have a uncompressed 44kHz files! - I'll never give you them, since UBI will kill me cos of a contracts, sorry mate!"

But seriously, have anybody spoken with him? :D Droolie, you speak French. His mail is on site. You can preserve anonymity.
You can say that we all still love his music and cruel UBI didn't release it on CD ever. Maybe he may have mercy on us.
[honestly I don't believe you'll agree 8) not to mention about him :proud:]
Worse, if he would be accused of doing so, only after kooz release of files sounding close to original..


kooz, I'm in shock. You did it. Again. I couldn't even believe in what I was reading ;D Great thanks for your dedication.
It is so nice to see such surprising effectiveness in overcoming these programming puzzles. It makes me feel overjoyed :D

@Synthesis
Have you looked at logs? Have you tried to check Total Recorder during playing on digital device? Maybe it already shows 44kHz, but just do not plays 44kHz to some other problem with files, maybe conversion etc. Or maybe without changing value. Conceivably we might be close...


In matter of comparison files.
Difference can be heard on my equipment. Highs are getting clearer on this digital rip on new drivers in comparison to v2 digital rip.

At worse, difference between previous line-in and digital rip is also clearly noticeable... first sounds much better.

I'm a little afraid by quality of new rip, since new digital rip is sounds much higher than previous digital rip, but not especially better than previous analog rip, still, higher, but not better. I'm curious how would sound new analog rip on new drivers. It will be further from bit-exact rip, but for normal listening, it may sounds better, or even further worse, depend on a type of distortions which I have heard in new digital rip sample.
Of course, for heavier post processing, digital is rather better; though given even clearer highs than in DC R2 version, it may diversely turn out.
But I may be a little wrong with these distortions, since I haven't heard whole soundtrack yet. But something stings me in this highs from new digital rip. I'd like to be wrong.

It would be good to compare new digital rip with new line in rip, so with new drivers.

Again, thanks for your dedication, kooz. We owe you the best sounding rips of TC ever.
Last edited by deton24 on Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by GOT4N »

deton24 wrote:I afraid that he would just laugh of us, saying: "Here, here I have a uncompressed 44kHz files! - I'll never give you them, since UBI will kill me cos of a contracts, sorry mate!"

But seriously, have anybody spoken with him? :D Droolie, you speak French. His mail is on site. You can preserve anonymity.
You can say that we all still love his music and cruel UBI didn't release it on CD ever. Maybe he may have mercy on us.
[honestly I don't believe you'll agree 8) not to mention about him :proud:]
Worse, if he would be accused of doing so, only after kooz release of files sounding close to original..


kooz, I'm in shock. You did it. Again. I couldn't even believe in what I was reading ;D Great thanks for your dedication.
It is so nice to see such surprising effectiveness in overcoming these programming puzzles. It makes me feel overjoyed :D

@Synthesis
Have you looked at logs? Have you tried to check Total Recorder during playing on digital device? Maybe it already shows 44kHz, but just do not plays 44kHz to some other problem with files, maybe conversion etc. Or maybe without changing value. Conceivably we might be close...


In matter of comparison files.
Difference can be heard on my equipment. Highs are getting clearer on this digital rip on new drivers in comparison to v2 digital rip.

At worse, difference between previous line-in and digital rip is also clearly noticeable... first sounds much better.

I'm a little afraid by quality of new rip, since new digital rip is sounds much higher than previous digital rip, but not especially better than previous analog rip, still, higher, but not better. I'm curious how would sound new analog rip on new drivers. It will be further from bit-exact rip, but for normal listening, it may sounds better, or even further worse, depend on a type of distortions which I have heard in new digital rip sample.
Of course, for heavier post processing, digital is rather better; though given even clearer highs than in DC R2 version, it may diversely turn out.
But I may be a little wrong with these distortions, since I haven't heard whole soundtrack yet. But something stings me in this highs from new digital rip. I'd be wrong.

It would be good to compare new digital rip with new line in rip, so with new drivers.

Again, thanks for your dedication, kooz. We owe you the best sounding rips of TC ever.
I don't think it'd be worth writing a mail to Eric Chevalier about something that's like 16/17 years old. From the 115+ developpers on different Rayman games I tried to get in touch, only like 10 or 11 anwsered me, and hopefully they were talking French for most of them, so it allowed me to ask them question more easily! :)

deton24
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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by deton24 »

Hey, there is really no need to quote whole post above you.
Or only in case if you don't want to clutter the topic.

You know, this 16/17 years old thing spent sleepless nights of a three qualified programmers in matter of getting this music.
Imho maybe R2 music is more valuable, but TC is also some kind of a legendary work of Eric Chevalier, and due to UBI negligence, very underrated. I think that you have never ask Eric Chevalier for music from R2 or TC. Yeah, maybe he will never response, or disagree, but it would be interesting.

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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by GOT4N »

I definitely agree on the fact that he spent sleepless nights etc, but like, there's already rips of it, in an already very good quality, so I mean, it's like a rich guy that gets a 1000$ PC, but then he keeps try harding asking his father to buy a 1100$ PC, it's same here: The quality wouldn't be different, and that wouldn't be worth

deton24
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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by deton24 »

Depend on you, from your perspective of possible writer.
You know, we have here rips still not really close to CD quality, and it's not likely to happen even if I'd have super studio headphones and signal chain, or money for pro-engineer for remaster this all. Even then, uncompressed 44kHz at least segments are priceless, and they far outweigh everything what we have now, even R2 PSX 44kHz unpacked files, which are even strongly abridged.

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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by Droolie »

Eric Chevalier never replied to any of the emails I sent to that or his previous email address. His site has been dead for years too and apart from that there is no way of contacting him. Plus, he isn't legally allowed to release any of the music he wrote for Ubisoft. Kooz's upcoming rip is literally the best quality one we will ever get from Tonic Trouble. :)

deton24
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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by deton24 »

If there is only no message that host is not found, maybe after offering 100$ after some fundraising, anonymity and deleting posts from here, suddenly there would be some response. I know that he officially cannot do this, but unofficially...
Changing outbox email address, topic name etc. It might be helpful. 16 years+ have passed since release R2.

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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by kooz »

New 44.1kHz rip is complete. Ran into a snag because the new (WAVa1) driver was changing the Wave volume in Windows mixer to 50% every time TT was launched. This was unacceptable because recording at anything other than full volume would've lowered signal-to-noise of original files and wouldn't be bit-perfect to the source. Solved by incorporating an AutoHotKey command into the the recording script which changes Wave volume to 100% two seconds after launching TT. :)

https://mega.nz/#!kAsE3bQQ!59_WcP_6vZLU ... BTk0yNrdCg
Last edited by kooz on Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

deton24
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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by deton24 »

kooz, you're the best.
Thank you

Droolie, Synthesis, you too.

Ending this party, I wanna to express my respects for all of you for your hard work on providing the best sounding rips for all community. I'd like to wish you good luck in your professional work, studies, and so on.
Greetings
Last edited by deton24 on Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by Harpic fraîcheur »

I listened to some segments and it seemed really fine to me, kooz. Nice job!
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kooz
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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by kooz »

Thanks for the kind words, everyone! :D

You can probably expect to see the finished product sometime later this week. I did not keep my Audition project files after the v2 release, so I need to do the arrangement again from scratch. :tssk:

Anyone who would like to voice their opinions/suggestions about the track separations, segment ordering/transition handling, or any other concerns/feedback, technical or otherwise: please review the v2 rip and advise. I will most likely be following the exact same format and arrangement.

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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by Droolie »

I've only just had time to listen, and... wow, those segments. I already had fun listening to the extra Crazy Town segments in 22khz, now I'm having double the fun with double the frequencies! :P

Also, as far as I've heard, the track separations and segment ordering were fine in your v2 rip. Some transitions are a bit harsh (stuff like the ending of Doc's Cave 3) but you can't do much better with the segments you're given. The only thing that I spotted that you could improve was the end of Pressure Cooker 1 where you can cut out a tiny gap to make the transition sound seamless. That's all the feedback I can give! :)

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