RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
Moderators: English moderators, Modding and utilities team
Forum rules
Please keep the forum rules and guidelines in mind when creating or replying to a topic.
Please keep the forum rules and guidelines in mind when creating or replying to a topic.
-
- Posts: 15740
- Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:07 pm
- Location: The Buccaneer MK. II
- Tings: 67030
Re: RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
I just downloaded this. Getting very excited to start creating my EvilTM Rayman 2 mod; but I can't seem to use the movement gizmo to move around objects. I can move them using the coordinate boxes, but dragging the gizmo handles doesn't seem to do anything. nope im dumb and should read help files it all works thx anyway
PS
It would be awesome if we could get some rotational tools for our objects!
PPS
Well, I've already been amusing the hell out of myself shifting objects around in the game and editing the dialogue using MixerX's text editing tool. It's great. Thanks, everyone, for something as marvellous as this! ;D
PS
It would be awesome if we could get some rotational tools for our objects!
PPS
Well, I've already been amusing the hell out of myself shifting objects around in the game and editing the dialogue using MixerX's text editing tool. It's great. Thanks, everyone, for something as marvellous as this! ;D
Play Rayman Arena (PC) online with friends~! (Or here.)
Dart wrote:Sometimes life just comes out of nowhere and demands a lot of your attention.
-
- Posts: 15740
- Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:07 pm
- Location: The Buccaneer MK. II
- Tings: 67030
Re: RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
Double triple PS, is it at some point possible to move the Cages and the Lums that spawn from them? I've been able to successfully move the Yellow Lum that comes from the very first Cage of the game in the Woods of Light, but no others seem editable. What's more, the Cages themselves don't appear to be loaded object yet. Is this because they are objects that cannot be identified by the Editor yet, or are they simply not objects at all, but rather, scripted/hard-coded into the game in some way? The same question about Flipswitches, really.
EDIT:
Ah I've noticed that, in general, there's still a number of objects that is either plainly not imported yet (missing some Yellow Lums here and there), or uneditable (no coords/world position).
I bet that's still a hack-in-progress, then.
EDIT:
Ah I've noticed that, in general, there's still a number of objects that is either plainly not imported yet (missing some Yellow Lums here and there), or uneditable (no coords/world position).
I bet that's still a hack-in-progress, then.
Play Rayman Arena (PC) online with friends~! (Or here.)
Dart wrote:Sometimes life just comes out of nowhere and demands a lot of your attention.
-
- Posts: 22067
- Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:55 pm
- Location: British Columbia, Canada
- Contact:
- Tings: 106718
Re: RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
The information I'm getting from the level files may be objects supplied with additional debug information, because the importing algorithm I'm using isn't actually skipping out on any objects laid out like the ones it's importing are. That's all of them. My guess is that all the objects and coordinates are still located in the SNA files, but the ones without said debug information are packed together in a much less-readable way.Shrooblord wrote:Double triple PS, is it at some point possible to move the Cages and the Lums that spawn from them? I've been able to successfully move the Yellow Lum that comes from the very first Cage of the game in the Woods of Light, but no others seem editable. What's more, the Cages themselves don't appear to be loaded object yet. Is this because they are objects that cannot be identified by the Editor yet, or are they simply not objects at all, but rather, scripted/hard-coded into the game in some way? The same question about Flipswitches, really.
EDIT:
Ah I've noticed that, in general, there's still a number of objects that is either plainly not imported yet (missing some Yellow Lums here and there), or uneditable (no coords/world position).
I bet that's still a hack-in-progress, then.
Rayman 3's objects have a similar layout, but there are no (string) names attached to any of the objects, and I can't find a suitable entry-point for each object, meaning it might be a little more difficult. Though I only spent like half an hour looking at Rayman 3 in total.
-
- Posts: 15740
- Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:07 pm
- Location: The Buccaneer MK. II
- Tings: 67030
Re: RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
I also noticed that some Flipswitches (like the one in the Fairy Glade #3 that opens the laser barrier) can be moved, while others (like the one in the Fairy Glade #1 that opens the Baby Globox gate) are not visible in-Editor (yet).
And I remember you mentioning something about Robo-Pirate spawn locations being inaccessible. Is there any light you can shine on this? What do you think makes these locations so hard to determine/manipulate from/in the SNA files?
And I remember you mentioning something about Robo-Pirate spawn locations being inaccessible. Is there any light you can shine on this? What do you think makes these locations so hard to determine/manipulate from/in the SNA files?
Play Rayman Arena (PC) online with friends~! (Or here.)
Dart wrote:Sometimes life just comes out of nowhere and demands a lot of your attention.
-
- Posts: 83848
- Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:50 pm
- Location: Paris, France
- Contact:
- Tings: 610019
Re: RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
Amazing, that reminds me of the good old times when I'd create levels in Rayman Designer with the Mapper.Adsolution wrote:Hey people, I'm working on a Rayman 1-based RayTwol as well, currently for editing the PS1 version.
That's probably what the name of the new tool should be based on: Mapper.
-
- Posts: 12809
- Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:04 am
- Location: Jaffa Castle
- Tings: 675
-
- Posts: 83848
- Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:50 pm
- Location: Paris, France
- Contact:
- Tings: 610019
Re: RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
I was thinking of something that would emphasize the fact that it's a new mapper but I can only think of terribly edgy names.
-
- Posts: 22067
- Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:55 pm
- Location: British Columbia, Canada
- Contact:
- Tings: 106718
Re: RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
I have no idea really. There are multiple files comprising each level, and I've only explored the GPT and SNA files (the former in very little depth, but I know they contain information regarding animation/sub-model stuff).Shrooblord wrote:And I remember you mentioning something about Robo-Pirate spawn locations being inaccessible. Is there any light you can shine on this? What do you think makes these locations so hard to determine/manipulate from/in the SNA files?
As for object rotations which you asked about earlier and I forgot to respond to, I'm not sure how I would go about modifying those, since there is no rotation stored where the positions are. I don't think most objects even have an orientation to begin with, because if you think about it, it never matters on an interactive level in Rayman 2, and visually, the models are re-defined every time said objects appear elsewhere in the file, possibly with the model's default rotation already baked into the vertices.
Come on, that's such a bland name.Ambidextroid wrote:RayMapper?
I'm considering sticking with RayTwol, despite it no longer even being Rayman 2-exclusive. Not the most accurate marketing strategy, but I think the logo looks real sweet, even here:Hunchman801 wrote:I was thinking of something that would emphasize the fact that it's a new mapper but I can only think of terribly edgy names.
(many overlaying elements show off transparent effect1wow hah)
Though anyone is still free to convince me otherwise if they have any strong feelings on the topic.
-
- Posts: 12809
- Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:04 am
- Location: Jaffa Castle
- Tings: 675
Re: RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
I still think Cartog-ray-pher was pretty nifty
So how will level sharing work? Is it possible in its current state by copying the level files over?
I would have thought some sort of level info file would be handy, like a data file that records changes you make in RayTwol or just a compressed "pack" of your edited levels and then you can load it similar to the hold and fetch system. Maybe that's not the best way to do it but it seems more intuitive than having to replace all the level files in your game folder, and that way you could load someone's whole edited game and afterwards load the default levels back easily.
So how will level sharing work? Is it possible in its current state by copying the level files over?
I would have thought some sort of level info file would be handy, like a data file that records changes you make in RayTwol or just a compressed "pack" of your edited levels and then you can load it similar to the hold and fetch system. Maybe that's not the best way to do it but it seems more intuitive than having to replace all the level files in your game folder, and that way you could load someone's whole edited game and afterwards load the default levels back easily.
-
- Posts: 22067
- Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:55 pm
- Location: British Columbia, Canada
- Contact:
- Tings: 106718
Re: RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
Lol ye, that was a pretty good name, no lie.
I've thought about that briefly, and yeah, that would be useful. I could even make the program automatically import/export zip files directly, containing your modified game or level(s).
I'll probably overhaul the UI a bit, which will include project handling.
I've thought about that briefly, and yeah, that would be useful. I could even make the program automatically import/export zip files directly, containing your modified game or level(s).
I'll probably overhaul the UI a bit, which will include project handling.
-
- Posts: 83848
- Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:50 pm
- Location: Paris, France
- Contact:
- Tings: 610019
Re: RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
Well it's a cool name indeed, though it has nothing to do with the new mapper. Not that I have a better idea anyway.Adsolution wrote:Though anyone is still free to convince me otherwise if they have any strong feelings on the topic.
Re: RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
Well, currently it's two tools in one, so RayTwol still works in that sense. Until support for Rayman 3 is added, that is.
-
- Posts: 83848
- Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:50 pm
- Location: Paris, France
- Contact:
- Tings: 610019
Re: RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
Good point. Ad, just don't get started on Rayman 3.
-
- Posts: 15740
- Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:07 pm
- Location: The Buccaneer MK. II
- Tings: 67030
Re: RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
I would like to argue that in specific cases, rotation is very important, like with the Fairy Glade #3's Iron Sparadrap door that leads to a Cage overlooking the waterfall area that's hidden behind the keg-tossing Henchman's little fortress. The rotation of that object had to be such that it aligns with the rest of the level geometry, so I guess it's defined somewhere. I refuse to believe that objects like the Sparadrap doors (of which there are actually two in quick succession of one another in the mentioned level area!) do not have rotational data stored somewhere. They need to align with geometry, and the objects need to know which direction to fly off in once the Sparadrap has been destroyed (a funny issue I have run into after placing it elsewhere: the door flies towards Ray who's tossed a powder keg into it instead of away from him because of the orientation the door was in originally).Adsolution wrote:As for object rotations which you asked about earlier and I forgot to respond to, I'm not sure how I would go about modifying those, since there is no rotation stored where the positions are. I don't think most objects even have an orientation to begin with, because if you think about it, it never matters on an interactive level in Rayman 2, and visually, the models are re-defined every time said objects appear elsewhere in the file, possibly with the model's default rotation already baked into the vertices.
More objects that I can think of that must have had their orientation stored in some way:
- The Teensie and Baby Globoxes in the Main Menu (yes, there's Babies in there!!);
- the three Baby Globoxes in the Woods of Light;
- the "cork doors" in for example the Sanctuary of Stone and Fire or Sanctuary of Rock and Lava;
- the powder keg hatches and powder kegs that have been placed before them;
- Ssssam;
- Jano while in his tree cave in the Marshes;
- Robo-Pirates' spawn locations (eg. sleeping Henchmen) - but then you don't know where their spawn locations are stored - maybe this is actually programmatically somewhere - so I understand that this one would be hard to figure out;
- the laser-riding chair in The Top of the World;
- Spiral Doors, whose orientation is quite different each time we encounter one;
- initial orientation of spawning Walking Shells;
- initial orientation of important actors like Foutch, Axel, Umber, The Grolgoth etc.;
- Ly in the Fairy Glade's prison;
- Sparadraps, which are always aligned with the objects they are attached to.
Maybe that helps narrow down where the data could be stored? Or I don't know. Maybe it's not stored anywhere after all. But I just can't believe that's true. It would make no sense to me as a game designer if it is.
Play Rayman Arena (PC) online with friends~! (Or here.)
Dart wrote:Sometimes life just comes out of nowhere and demands a lot of your attention.
-
- Posts: 37010
- Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:00 pm
- Location: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cErgMJSgpv0
- Contact:
- Tings: 102745
Re: RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
Well, quite a few of those only appear once, so they could just have a built-in orientation. But for the others, yeah, of course. And switches too! And now that you mention Jano, are there any insights to be gained into why the hell he just moves across the map once you finish the CoBD?
Sig with Dora made by R4Y_ANC3L; others made by me
Android: How to block an image you don't like
It's good to learn from the past: read the Pirate-Community Documentary!
Other things you should know about this site
-
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:24 pm
- Tings: 235
Re: RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
wheeeeeens the new update im starving for updates
Yeah keep on dancing Rayman.
-
- Posts: 22067
- Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:55 pm
- Location: British Columbia, Canada
- Contact:
- Tings: 106718
Re: RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
Almost every object has its model (and animations potentially) re-defined every time they re-appear, including the doors. Not a single object mentioned so far have rotations that affect the gameplay in any fashion whatsoever; they're all merely visual effects. Things like the rotating doors and fire jets in Stone and Fire probably just have animated collision geometry in addition to animated visual geometry.Shrooblord wrote:I would like to argue that in specific cases, rotation is very important, like with the Fairy Glade #3's Iron Sparadrap door that leads to a Cage overlooking the waterfall area that's hidden behind the keg-tossing Henchman's little fortress. The rotation of that object had to be such that it aligns with the rest of the level geometry, so I guess it's defined somewhere. I refuse to believe that objects like the Sparadrap doors (of which there are actually two in quick succession of one another in the mentioned level area!) do not have rotational data stored somewhere. They need to align with geometry, and the objects need to know which direction to fly off in once the Sparadrap has been destroyed (a funny issue I have run into after placing it elsewhere: the door flies towards Ray who's tossed a powder keg into it instead of away from him because of the orientation the door was in originally).
The next update will have some big new features implemented that will take a while to complete. I don't know.RobotHenchman wrote:wheeeeeens the new update im starving for updates
-
- Posts: 12343
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 8:15 pm
- Location: Uh, well, I don't really know
- Tings: 52095
Re: RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
Talking about the editor towards Rayman 1, where's the progress on a beta version being released? Also, has an edited level been tried out on a PlayStation, and not through an iso file of the game?
FC: 37.699 | CF: 107.954 | BOM: 94.827 | LOTLD: 121.385 | DOTK: 109.831 | LS: 41.270 | SBTC: 94.755 | HH: 107.339 | TOTL: 104.496
Total: 819.556
Total: 819.556
-
- Posts: 22067
- Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:55 pm
- Location: British Columbia, Canada
- Contact:
- Tings: 106718
Re: RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
I don't have a chipped PS1/2 so I can't test it, but anyone else who does is free to give it a try. Absolutely no reason it shouldn't work.
As for a release date, I'm not totally sure, but it is very functional in its current state. Just not complete.
As for a release date, I'm not totally sure, but it is very functional in its current state. Just not complete.
-
- Posts: 15740
- Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:07 pm
- Location: The Buccaneer MK. II
- Tings: 67030
Re: RayTwol ~ Rayman 2 level editor (1.0 release)
Wow, really? How... old school.Adsolution wrote:Almost every object has its model (and animations potentially) re-defined every time they re-appear, including the doors. Not a single object mentioned so far have rotations that affect the gameplay in any fashion whatsoever; they're all merely visual effects. Things like the rotating doors and fire jets in Stone and Fire probably just have animated collision geometry in addition to animated visual geometry.
When you say redefined, do you mean that the model itself is hard-coded somehow? I.e. its shape and geometry (vertices in 3D space) are pieces of code rather than what we would nowadays expect from models as separate object files with rotational data inside a larger 3D environment?
My dad always seems to bring that (and especially how hard it is/would be) up when we talk about 3D engines and making 3D games - I suppose that's because that's how they used to make 3D in the early days, which is when he was involved with the field.
Play Rayman Arena (PC) online with friends~! (Or here.)
Dart wrote:Sometimes life just comes out of nowhere and demands a lot of your attention.