Rayman Redemption speedrunning

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hoodlumsworld
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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

Post by hoodlumsworld »

I'm sure you've all seen the news, but for those in the back:

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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

Post by Hunchman801 »

Yeah, it was fun to watch, and a fairly close one. Both times were very good though not enough to beat Wormi's impressive run from six months ago.
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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

Post by SpeedBot »

New runs have just been validated on speedrun.com!

Mr Stone's Peaks: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 05m 26s 720ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 14/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Saved more time with minor optimizations and by using the springs in screen 3. There are still a few unnecessary hits in screen 1 and two mistimed jumps during the boss fight.


Twilight Gulch: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 01m 12s 799ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 14/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Really hoped to get a greater improvement than these 0.02, but I still have issues timing the rock wall punches.
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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

Post by hoodlumsworld »

Wow, this Twilight Gulch beat Rmuda's previous record by 20ms. Talk about optimization.
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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

Post by SpeedBot »

New runs have just been validated on speedrun.com!

Brain Games: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 02m 24s 629ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 17/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Rather short level, so the small optimizations count all the more. The hardest of them are the springs in screen 1, you need to "drift" to the right immediately when hitting the first one. I also figured that tanking hits during the boss fight is better than letting one of them jump too high and out of reach.


The Playhouse: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 02m 35s 20ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 17/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Unsurprisingly, screen 2's paint punches are the hardest part to optimize. This is a good start, more precise paint punching and maybe using the blue spike balls for damage boosting would allow for additional time saves.


Tempest Terror: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 01m 49s 969ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 15/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Missed the last hit on Darktoon, but still (barely) pushed it below 1:50.


Crystal Palace: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 02m 10s 379ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 15/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Another level with two new damage boosts. Made some minor mistakes, sub 2:10 definitely doable.


Pencil Pentathlon: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 02m 21s 879ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 15/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Probably one of my favorite levels to run so far. The yellow rings in screen 1 allow for some big time saves and the slowest, most annoying part of screen 3 can be skipped.


Tasty Reception: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 03m 01s 550ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 17/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Oddly enough, the hardest parts for me are the punch boosts, because I'm still terrible at consistently doing them and keep pressing punch before turning around more often than not...


Space Mama's Crater: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 06m 21s 720ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 15/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Found two damage boosts that shaved off over half a minute from the previous record.


Eraser Plains: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 03m 53s 780ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 15/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Lost some time by missing the second Pirate twice in the boss fight. The Power-Up also wasn't necessary in the end, because I got hit less than in my other attempts. Cutting these losses should definitely make sub 3:50 possible.


Eat at Joe's: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 03m 35s 30ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 15/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:This is starting to get a bit ridiculous; the third level in a row today where I've found some insane but surprisingly consistent damage boosts. Not complaining though...
Still a few smaller mistakes in this run, but got all of the important tricks right.


Mr Skops' Stalactites: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 04m 09s 50ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 16/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Finding a way to catch an earlier cycle of the rightmost vertical crystal in screen 1 might be the most difficult thing I've done in the game so far, and I almost gave up on it. Not only is the jump sequence itself very hard, the entire rest of the screen must be perfect as well, or else you won't catch the first horizontal crystal on time.


Molten Depths: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 03m 44s 669ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 16/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Not really any new tricks here, just optimized existing ones. A lot of time could theoretically be saved if there's some way to skip the lava cycle in screen 2.


Child's Play: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 02m 03s 349ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 16/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Well, optimizing this was the polar opposite of child's play. The timing to get through the blue spike balls in screen 1 is very precise and both the other screens must be done perfectly to catch the swing cycles.


The Lair of the Chessmaster: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 05m 22s 649ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 17/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Lots of swing cycles in screen 1, so I used the extra time to collect an additional Power-Up which were very useful for the rest of the level. Still some mistakes, especially the last two chess pieces in screen 2 have caused me trouble.


Choco Chambers: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 04m 04s 349ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 17/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Mostly clean run except for some small blunders and me forgetting (again) on which side the first piece of fruit appears in the boss fight.


The Sweet Spot: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 03m 18s 979ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 17/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Hardest thing here was to find a strategy for dealing with the room I'm calling "The Clown Car" from now on. I also took a detour to the Power-Up, because I really don't want to try optimizing the Antitoon-funnel in screen 2 yet; maybe damage boosting through it outweighs the detour anyway.


Mr Dark's Dare: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 08m 25s 100ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 18/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Not a lot of tricks in this level, so it's all about cleanly running the intended route, except for the small skip in screen 4.
My main time loss here was getting out of rhythm with Skopskito.
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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

Post by Inzarcon »

With these last runs, my research has finally reached it's conclusion.
The only thing left to do before I start attempting serious full game runs is going through all the tricks again and identifying the changes needed to make them work with less health. Some of the damage boosts are also fatal if I miss them (especially Crystal Palace 3 and the Eat at Joe's ones), so I need to practice these some more.
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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

Post by Hunchman801 »

Congrats on getting first place in pretty much every level! And yeah, it's true that there's more to a full-game speedrun than just grinding individual levels, you're gonna have to be a lot more careful.

Are you going for a no-cage run (and therefore minimum health)? If you're playing casual, I guess there might be some situations where it could be faster to replenish your health by dying.

Also, do you plan on using safer strats in some places? Clearly, a lot of techniques only save a couple seconds but they can cost a lot more if you die when attempting them. :fou2:
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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

Post by Inzarcon »

Well, my test run today was very promising, way better than I expected. No deaths in Playtopia, one in Candy at the pink ring part at the end of Tasty Reception 2; I've already practiced a much safer approach for that one. I'll be aiming straight for zero deaths, though there will probably be one or two due to stupid mistakes at easy parts. :roll:
Hunchman801 wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:49 pm
Are you going for a no-cage run (and therefore minimum health)?
I'm going for the 10 cage route, the ca. 15 seconds it costs are definitely worth it for all the damage boosts I've found in Space Mama's and later, and it's much safer in general of course. I'm taking the Power-Up upgrade as well once I have the tings, the Candy levels need a larger buffer for all the damage tanking there. Might buy the Power-Up on level start for Final Showdown as well, depending on how nervous I'll be at that point. :P
Hunchman801 wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:49 pm
Also, do you plan on using safer strats in some places? Clearly, a lot of techniques only save a couple seconds but they can cost a lot more if you die when attempting them. :fou2:
For the most part, there are indeed a lot of damage tanks and other risky strats in the ILs which only save a few seconds or even just split seconds. Cutting these, there is enough health left to do all the important damage boosts and tanks. I will also collect more Power-Ups in select places. Zero Checkpoints though, just on principle. 8)

My general strategy with the difficult skips is...pretty much all of them, except for three. One is Wormi's rope skip in Mr Stone's 1, that's borderline pixel perfect. The second is the damage boost in Crystal Palace 3, and the last one the piranha damage boost in Eat at Joe's. I am doing the UFO skip though, it saves around half a minute and I'm too stubborn to not try do my favorite damage boost in the game. That makes it the most critical strat in the run.
The other ones I don't view as much of a problem. Most of them are either easy and/or salvageable after a mistake. Others are much less risky with more Power-Ups. Everything up until the end of Blue Mountains is my no-fault-zone though; it's early enough that I'm okay restarting the run if I miss any major strats there.
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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

Post by Hunchman801 »

Inzarcon wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:34 pm Well, my test run today was very promising, way better than I expected. No deaths in Playtopia, one in Candy at the pink ring part at the end of Tasty Reception 2; I've already practiced a much safer approach for that one. I'll be aiming straight for zero deaths, though there will probably be one or two due to stupid mistakes at easy parts. :roll:
Oh man, I remember dying some many times at that one last ring! Anyway, glad to know the run went well. Any idea what time you'll be targeting?
Inzarcon wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:34 pm I'm going for the 10 cage route, the ca. 15 seconds it costs are definitely worth it for all the damage boosts I've found in Space Mama's and later, and it's much safer in general of course. I'm taking the Power-Up upgrade as well once I have the tings, the Candy levels need a larger buffer for all the damage tanking there. Might buy the Power-Up on level start for Final Showdown as well, depending on how nervous I'll be at that point. :P
Yeah, no cages sounds a bit daunting, and in the end it might actually be a bad strategy if the damage boosts save more time than skipping the cages.
Inzarcon wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:34 pm For the most part, there are indeed a lot of damage tanks and other risky strats in the ILs which only save a few seconds or even just split seconds. Cutting these, there is enough health left to do all the important damage boosts and tanks. I will also collect more Power-Ups in select places. Zero Checkpoints though, just on principle. 8)

My general strategy with the difficult skips is...pretty much all of them, except for three. One is Wormi's rope skip in Mr Stone's 1, that's borderline pixel perfect. The second is the damage boost in Crystal Palace 3, and the last one the piranha damage boost in Eat at Joe's. I am doing the UFO skip though, it saves around half a minute and I'm too stubborn to not try do my favorite damage boost in the game. That makes it the most critical strat in the run.
The other ones I don't view as much of a problem. Most of them are either easy and/or salvageable after a mistake. Others are much less risky with more Power-Ups. Everything up until the end of Blue Mountains is my no-fault-zone though; it's early enough that I'm okay restarting the run if I miss any major strats there.
Yeah, failing the rope skip is a 25+ second time loss, not sure how much it actually saves but if you can't reproduce it reliably, better skip it. As for Crystal Palace 3, I guess you mean the one with the bouncing rock? It does look rather unforgiving, yeah. And regarding the fish in Eat at Joe's, I guess you could try to mitigate the potential loss by actually using the photographer, but since you don't plan on using checkpoints... :P

Now regarding the flying saucer in the previous level, is it hard to get? It looks like it's just about taking some damage, but maybe it's a lot more precise than it looks!
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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

Post by hoodlumsworld »

I wonder, what do you think you can improve with the paint fist in The Playhouse? It looks perfect to me.
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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

Post by Inzarcon »

hoodlumsworld wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:53 pm I wonder, what do you think you can improve with the paint fist in The Playhouse? It looks perfect to me.
Well, this is very nit-picky (given they're ILs), but there are a few very small time saves.

You can place the first punch so that you can directly jump onto the C-block without hanging:
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Similarly, this part can be done with one punch instead of two:
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Problem is, the spike balls often get in the way, which is why did a fourth punch on the first piece of paper here:
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In the video, you can also see that the height difference between the two paint splashes isn't quite as big as the other ones. So maybe damage boosting onto the second piece while punching is faster, but obviously a lot more difficult, too.


Also, "by the way" (putting it mildly :P), I got this here. Still in the verification process, so your bot hasn't picked it up yet:

Full Game Any% in 1h 56m 08s
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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

Post by Hunchman801 »

So, I watched your entire run last night, and first of all, congrats! It's very impressive, and Wormi's record from six months was finally beaten. It took a while, which speaks volumes as to what a performance this early run was.

Anyway, there were no major mistakes until the Caves of Skops, so a really good early game (well, that was a close one at 8:10, though :P). It must have been painful to die in two levels in a row in Eat at Joe's, though! And same for Child's Play, what do you think your strategy will be now with the spiky balls?

I like how you went for a very safe strat with the fork in Tasty Reception 2, clearly you remembered what happened in your test run! :lol: It was a pretty close one with the rings in part 1 as well, but the ledge saved you, so that's fine.

Clearly, the antitoons in the Sweet Spot are still a pain. You're being really strict on yourself with no-checkpoint policy though, because the photographer there is basically free, or at least one hell of a cheap life insurance. :P And the one in the water part of Eat at Joe's too, though to a lesser extent.

On more than one occasion you were only 1 HP from dying in the final level, but it went well nonetheless, so it's all good! I'm posting your comments here for the record, they're pretty insightful regarding the potential time saves:
Inzarcon wrote:6 deaths in total, the last one on purpose.
1. UFO skip in Eat at Joe's. Jumped slightly too early. Got the second attempt though, so even with the death it's still a bit faster than the intended route. Lost ~25 sec.
2. Early Jump in the water part in Eat at Joe's. That Never Happened Before™. In retrospect, I could have just used the damage boost to get back up. Lost ~25 sec.
3+4. Child's Play. The blue spike balls one is a good example of how being too careful can make things worse. Completely lost my rhythm after that and added a second death there. Lost ~55 sec.
Luckily regained my focus for a while after that.
Heart attack moment at 1:25:30​ and later I was a split second way from throwing the run by almost quitting Choco Chambers early.
5. Antitoon funnel in The Sweet Spot, fell down after damage boosting. Didn't even know there's a checkpoint right there. I have a strict no-checkpoints-policy, and in the long run this doesn't matter much as I'm planning to grind for a zero-death run anyway. Lost ~45 sec.
6. Mr Dark Fight; was heavily blundering with Stonesax and took one death on purpose. Lost ~5 sec.

So that's ~2:35​ lost from deaths.
Lost a good half minute or so from being too nervous and forgetting a Power-Up in The Final Showdown.
I have practiced a few more strats I didn't attempt in this run. Didn't time them yet, I estimate a minute.
All the other careful slowdowns and small mistakes towards the end; maybe another minute.

Therefore, I estimate a possible time save of ~5:00​, which would put the final run around 1:51​, barely above the magical sub 1:50​. More optimizations and the insane Mr Stone's rope skip might push it below that.
I obviously need more split data for a better estimate though.
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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

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A new run has just been validated on speedrun.com!

Any% in 01h 56m 08s by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 19/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Not too bad for a first warm up run.
Very clean first half of the game, but made a lot of dumb mistakes in the second half; got too nervous after realizing I was already on WR pace.
Detailed breakdown in the video description.
Additional details:
  • Difficulty: Casual
  • Version: 1.1.4
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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

Post by Hunchman801 »

Well, what a surprise! :hap:
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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

Post by Inzarcon »

Hunchman801 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:00 pm It must have been painful to die in two levels in a row in Eat at Joe's, though! And same for Child's Play, what do you think your strategy will be now with the spiky balls?
Well, at least you got to see what happens if you don't time the UFO skip right. :P
In Child's Play, I can skip the first damage tank by waiting and punching the hunter first, with perfect timing it doesn't even loose any time with the swing cycle, but still fine otherwise. That puts me at 3 instead of 2 health left. I've also practiced the spike part (and all of the other deaths, too, of course), biggest problem there was that my brain was playing it safe, but my hands were doing the IL strat. So I got a bit confused there. :fou2:
Hunchman801 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:00 pm Clearly, the antitoons in the Sweet Spot are still a pain. You're being really strict on yourself with no-checkpoint policy though, because the photographer there is basically free, or at least one hell of a cheap life insurance. :P And the one in the water part of Eat at Joe's too, though to a lesser extent.
Yeah, got hit too much before that and then screwed the antitoon part itself up as well. Turns out, that part is actually very easy, because the antitoons are mostly moving in sync. So I have a backup strategy now.

As for the checkpoints, I'm just playing the long game. At some point I'll grind out a zero death run, so any runs with safety checkpoints will be obsolete by then anyway. With the WR down, this is about the sub 1:50 now. :D
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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

Post by hoodlumsworld »

Very nice Inzarcon, congrats!
Last edited by hoodlumsworld on Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

Post by Inzarcon »

Got a new run:
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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

Post by hoodlumsworld »

Three and a half minutes less than your previous run, that's huge. Do you think sub 1:50 is possible with the current strats?
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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

Post by SpeedBot »

New runs have just been validated on speedrun.com!

Pink Plant Woods: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 01m 30s 829ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 24/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Got this during a full game attempt.


Anguish Lagoon: Beat the level Any% - 1.1.0+ in 03m 15s 830ms by Inzarcon - 1st place

Submitted: 24/03/2021
Platform: PC
Inzarcon wrote:Got this during a full game attempt.
Starts at 1:35
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Re: Rayman Redemption speedrunning

Post by Hunchman801 »

Inzarcon wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:10 pm Well, at least you got to see what happens if you don't time the UFO skip right. :P
Yeah, this is rather unforgiving, but like you said, still better than going the intended way!
Inzarcon wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:10 pm As for the checkpoints, I'm just playing the long game. At some point I'll grind out a zero death run, so any runs with safety checkpoints will be obsolete by then anyway. With the WR down, this is about the sub 1:50 now. :D
That's a good point, you'll get there eventually.
Inzarcon wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:33 pm Got a new run:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NLDYuXv5xI
Congrats on the new record!

It was ballsy of you to go for the damage boost in Crystal Palace 3, glad this worked out! The UFO skip went well too, and you also took a lot more chances in the water part (that was a close one at beginning, wasn't it?), which paid off as you saved more than a minute in Eat at Joe's alone, compared to the previous run. The spiky platforms in Mr Skops' Stalactites gave you a hard time though. :lol:

There were no deaths in Child's Play this time, which is cool, but I found it reassuring that even you had trouble with those godforsaken yellow rings at some point. :hap: Dying in the Lair of the Chessmaster in that section with all the doors and keys must have been painful though, I think you lost over a minute and a half there. The death in Space Mama's Crater was unfortunate, but it must've cost you less then 15s so it's quite insignificant in comparison.

I like how you were really careful in the antitoon funnel but with only 2 HP left, you had to be! And you didn't buy the power-ups at the end, that was cool. Also, I noticed you're not playing casual anymore? Does it change anything besides the unlimited lives?

And congrats on the ILs too, I guess! It's always nice to get one during a full-game run. :mrgreen:
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