Rayman 3 scores

[sfn42]

It sounds like you need one of the regular staff members to take over the HOF then perhaps?

Or maybe all the top scorers could vote on things? Bit of a democracy.

A mix would be nice. The decisions being made through democracy in this thread and then someone impartial who enforces them.

[timoo]

I have suggested a process. Electing mods who are not as involved with the scoring community, who consult the community in this thread before making a decision. I don't know the community well enough to suggest suitable candidates who would be trustworthy and willing to actually moderate the HoF. Maybe you have someone in mind?

By detailed I meant that more precisions are needed, such as who would be able to vote, what the restrictions for candidates would be, etc. Unfortunately as much as I rock at Rayman 3 (I'm the top dog after all) I don't have the will to hold this position, so I believe we're better off looking for a retired scorer with the will and time to moderate the Hall of Fame, and maybe not too close to any active players?

Also what's a TSF?

[MandM81]

Also what's a TSF?

It's a bunch of Hoodlums that by means of using fake players try to wreak havoc in the scoring topic.

[Cut]

At least the redefinition of the word "Hoodlum" deserves some credit

[Adsolution]

@MandM: I am not going to discuss this via PM because it's a public matter. It concerns the whole community, not just you and me.

It does seem to be the case that it's mainly you and MandM who are on edge with each other though. I think you're both able to hold your own ground (take that for what it is) when it comes to supplying arguments - backup from others/counting in the opinion of the majority to win a logical argument shouldn't be necessary - so perhaps it would be a better idea to take it to PM if it means keeping the atmosphere of this thread a little more up-beat, because every other page is rather scary to read through. Additionally, the same arguments are being had over and over, usually due to the fact that this is a public thread and it's more difficult to have a legitimate discussion without it fading off when something else comes up.

Regarding HoF moderators (if finding new moderators is even necessary), I'm putting myself out there as someone who's willing and available, as I'm online nearly every day and also do keep tabs on most threads daily (this one included), and while I have a decent amount of knowledge, I'm "not as involved in the scoring community". I apologise if my representation from a year ago was really nasty and immature (I'm still embarrassed by it), but I'm entirely impartial and respect everyone's viewpoints equally. I certainly wouldn't make any decisions without consulting first, unless it's something obvious along the lines of cheating.

[Maz]

is there somebody trustworthy who i can send my points? who can confirm them but wont tell anybody what exactly thery are?

The real problem is that anyone you tell about it has an "unfair advantage" himself, as you like to call it.

Alright then, give me your opinions on the following:

MandM said that he will release his findings on 01.04.2016 or earlier; if that date changed to an earlier date, he could announce it. Now as much as I'd like to be fair, it's difficult to apply the same standards for him and Mirage, simply because of the different circumstances, but I think I might be able to propose a compromise:

MandM has been one of the top-dogs for many years now, and due to the PMs we exchanged, it seems to me that it took him months to find it. In addition, he's willing to share his findings; I don't know whether there have been personal issues which wouldn't justify my judgements, but I'd say he's definitely trustworthy.
I'd like to trust Mirage to the same degree as well, but the thing is that I don't know him yet. No offense to Mirage, but it might be possible he could just wait for those findings to be released, and then say "Yeah, I did that as well". Thus, I propose that MandM announces the day he will reveal his secrets, and Mirage has to reveal his secrets a certain period of time before that, say 3 days or something like that. That way, Mirage can prove his innocence, and we'll get rid off that secrecy issue once and for all by releasing everything at once.

That may sound a bit unfair to Mirage, but you've seen my reasoning. Has someone better ideas, or could you agree on this?

[DTUCC]

Also what's a TSF?

It's a bunch of Hoodlums that by means of using fake players try to wreak havoc in the scoring topic.

not dignifying the rest of this discussion with an answer, but could we get an ip check in by a mod to verify that this disgusting accusation that came from god knows where is not true?

[timoo]

not dignifying the rest of this discussion with an answer, but could we get an ip check in by a mod to verify that this disgusting accusation that came from god knows where is not true?

Why, are you saying that because you used a proxy? That won't prove shit, genius.

[sfn42]

I have suggested a process. Electing mods who are not as involved with the scoring community, who consult the community in this thread before making a decision. I don't know the community well enough to suggest suitable candidates who would be trustworthy and willing to actually moderate the HoF. Maybe you have someone in mind?

By detailed I meant that more precisions are needed, such as who would be able to vote, what the restrictions for candidates would be, etc. Unfortunately as much as I rock at Rayman 3 (I'm the top dog after all) I don't have the will to hold this position, so I believe we're better off looking for a retired scorer with the will and time to moderate the Hall of Fame, and maybe not too close to any active players?

I don't think we'd need to hold elaborate votes for every decision made. It would be too excessive for most small decisions. I believe most cases of possible cheaters are quite clear-cut (people entering with way over 900k) and the community would agree on how to handle those. For more difficult matters, such as decisions regarding the HoF itself or questionable scores that actually could be possible, I would spontaneously suggest that everyone who has some idea about scoring and has been somewhat active in the community would be allowed to vote. Some idea about scoring would probably be something like 600k or 650k but I'd be open for debate about that. Acitivity in the scoring community is difficult to measure but if someone who hasn't been here for 5 years suddenly appears just to vote, I'd have a hard time accepting that person's vote.

Also what's a TSF?

TSF is (or was) a German Rayman forum that Cut, CC, Mountain Goat and myself come from.

@Adsolution: I see your point but I don't agree. This is not just an issue between MandM and me, as posts by Cut, Mountain Goat, Mirage or CC show, they share at least some of my concerns, so they shouldn't be excluded from the discussion. That it's the same arguments again and again is a sad reality, but until they are addressed, they will come up again and again. Some of these concerns are actually over 5 years old. As far as I am concerned, the ball is in MandM's corner. If he is willing to actually address the facts I have posted in my previous post only via PM, I would listen, but even then it can't be a private discussion because it's not a provate matter.

Btw, I would be fine with you as a HoF-mod.

@Maz: I don't agree. I believe that people should be have the same rights and responsibilities, no matter if their name is MandM, Mirage or whatever. All people should be held to the same standards in the HoF and the whole "I reveal my stuff whenever I feel like" is nonsense because it results in a player never revealing their stuff. This supposed date MandM has announced resulted from pettiness and nothing else because he wants to get back at us for not revealing the IPG immediately. We have admitted to that mistake and apologized for it, but as long as any decision about secrecy is based on petty revenge for that, I can't accept it.

[DTUCC]

Why, are you saying that because you used a proxy? That won't prove shit, genius.

^
and that kind of response is exactly why i'm not dignifying this argument with one of my own responses lol

i'll watch this one from the sidelines, but i felt horribly insulted and requested all means known to me to proof the opposite (i believe i'm allowed to not have a lot of technical knowledge? well, appearantly not.) so yeah, i feel like i did what was necessary for me here

[timoo]

and that kind of response is exactly why i'm not dignifying this argument with one of my own responses lol

lol

i'll watch this one from the sidelines

Yes, please do.

but i felt horribly insulted and requested all means known to me to proof the opposite (i believe i'm allowed to not have a lot of technical knowledge? well, appearantly not.) so yeah, i feel like i did what was necessary for me here

[Maz]

I believe that people should be have the same rights and responsibilities, no matter if their name is MandM, Mirage or whatever. All people should be held to the same standards in the HoF and the whole "I reveal my stuff whenever I feel like" is nonsense because it results in a player never revealing their stuff

Thank god, finally someone who's actually willing to solve the problem at hand!

Point taken. But - apart from the obvious solution of having both MandM and Mirage share their stuff immediately - do you have a better suggestion? Because surely, you'll agree that Mirage telling someone his Scores would give an unfair advantage to just that one person (it doesn't matter if that person is good or even active at all in Rayman 3, since, like you said, everybody should be treated equally), so that's definitely out of the question.

And then there's MandM's findings: There's a few reasons for his behaviour which I understand, there's a few which I admittedly didn't understand (yet?), but let's put my opinion aside for a moment. I don't care whether it's revenge or his right to get the same amount of time as you guys, and frankly, I don't care; as it stands now, his stuff will be revealed on 1st April 2016, not one day earlier, and not one day later. You don't have to like that, but I think that nothing anyone will say will change a thing about that. I understand the arguments from both sides, and I honestly can't tell which side is right, but persuading this way (i.e. trying to get him to settle on an earlier date) seems like a dead end as well.

Which brings me back to my initial question: What would you propose to resolve our current situation?

[Mountain Goat]

[sfn42]

as it stands now, his stuff will be revealed on 1st April 2016, not one day earlier, and not one day later.

I seriously doubt that.

But as long as MandM is allowed to stay in the HoF with only a code and a screenshot, then Mirage has to be allowed as well.

[Xenon]

Edit: what's the point?

[Mirage]

lol thank god im not a fake account that would question my entire life and existance
i agree to sfn. i did what a world champion apparently have to do. if im trustworthy or not is not relevant because that is not objective and a ranking always has to be objective i played 1000s of hours in starcraft, diablo, dota and csgo. i know how competition works and this here is not how it owrks. i dont think mandm is trustworthy too maz. why should i agree to your idea? you dont know me, i dont know you. we are equal.

[MandM81]

This supposed date MandM has announced resulted from pettiness and nothing else because he wants to get back at us for not revealing the IPG immediately. We have admitted to that mistake and apologized for it, but as long as any decision about secrecy is based on petty revenge for that, I can't accept it.

I set that date for many reasons, revenge was not one of them, sorry.

I would actually like for sfn, MG and CC to participate constructively in this forum, sharing new findings and new scores in a positive atmosphere. Cooperation and sharing is based on trust and the fact that you all came here a few weeks ago and collectively demanded immediate cooperation and no secrecy doesn't really fill me with confidence regarding your sincerity. And your recent campaign only adds to that sentiment.

In short, one reason for not responding to your demand is the fact that you (sfn, MG and CC) simply haven't participated in this forum. You haven't contributed with anything here for many years, so why should anyone in this forum listen to your demands all of a sudden?

But I'm optimistic that sfn, MG and CC will rejoin this forum and contribute with cooperation and a positive atmosphere. This doesn't probably happen over night, hence the announcement of the deadline.

[Mountain Goat]

I would actually like for sfn, MG and CC to participate constructively in this forum, sharing new findings and new scores in a positive atmosphere. Cooperation and sharing is based on trust and the fact that you all came here a few weeks ago and collectively demanded immediate cooperation and no secrecy doesn't really fill me with confidence regarding your sincerity. And your recent campaign only adds to that sentiment.

In short, one reason for not responding to your demand is the fact that you (sfn, MG and CC) simply haven't participated in this forum. You haven't contributed with anything here for many years, so why should anyone in this forum listen to your demands all of a sudden?

try to find the wordplay

[sfn42]

This supposed date MandM has announced resulted from pettiness and nothing else because he wants to get back at us for not revealing the IPG immediately. We have admitted to that mistake and apologized for it, but as long as any decision about secrecy is based on petty revenge for that, I can't accept it.

I set that date for many reasons, revenge was not one of them, sorry.

Sorry, I don't believe in Santa Claus.

As for rest, if constantly trying to push us out of the HoF and banning our way of playing is your way of leading to cooperation, I don't know what to say.

Seriously, your whole post is the biggest load of nonsense I have read from you so far. It leaves me speechless.

[DTUCC]

sorry to let you down, but i've mostly moved on from the game and i am focusing on other project currently. there's other games to play, and other communities that i am participating it. i can't focus on all games at once if i want to win tournaments and other competitions, and rayman 3 had its time years ago. as i said, i MIGHT go back to it, but probably not anytime soon.

what i deduct from you're last sentece though is that you're contemplating not to reveal your findings if you aren't satisfied with our participation in the forums? that's the general feeling i'm getting from your message. i'll be more than happy to be proven wrong on that one though.