Audio quality on N64 Rayman 2 cartridge

[thejack1]

Hi all

I already know what many of you are going to answer: "sometimes the developers were forced to convert the soundtracks of some N64 titles with lower quality formats because the space occupied by the cartridge game. That my dilemma about Rayman 2 TGE arises.

Take for example Super Mario 64. SM64 has a soundtrack that we will never find out how it would be in audio CD format because it is a N64 exclusive and therefore present exclusively on cartridge. But judging from the depth of the audio tracks, the soundtrack of the latter would already seem a quality in CD audio format or similar, and therefore not converted into formats such as MIDI.

Super Mario 64 occupied 6-7mb on cartridge.

At this point instead we take in one of its direct rivals of the period: Rayman 2 The Great Escape.
This game is renowned for its many levels, the varied and detailed settings and for the possibility of exploiting also the Expansion Pak, which I suppose contributes to inevitably reduce the space on the cartridge in favor of a possible higher video resolution.

The soundtrack of Rayman 2 TGE on N64 will therefore be converted into MIDI format resulting "2D" sound.

Rayman 2 TGE occupied 17-19mb on cartridge, then was necessary that Ubi Soft developers convert the entire soundtrack into MIDI format?

Let's take Resident Evil 2 where on the PlayStation were used 2 CDs to play the game while on the Nintendo 64 the Capcom programmers managed to enclose the contents of 2 CDs inside a single cartridge at the expense of FMV. How do you explain that by compressing 2 CDs in a cartridge, therefore bringing it to the limit (60mb), the soundtrack remained unchanged in this case.

I wonder how it is possible? I do not think that Rayman 2 TGE was the biggest title for an N64 cartridge to the point of compressing the audio at those levels so marked compared to other titles. So, why the Rayman 2 OST on Nintendo 64 was changed if space on cartridge was present and there are more capient cartridges?

I await your news.

[StelzenBomber]

Maby because Bigger Cardriges cost more Money or it would be too much to bring a soundtrack like this to the n64?

[PluMGMK]

Off the top of my head, maybe they figured the console wouldn't be powerful enough for whatever codec they were thinking of using?
Or maybe it's just the aesthetic they were going for...

[Reese Riverson]

Oh I'd say the console is very capable of playing back a quality track, because someone proved the NES can play digital tracks. It's just the simple fact that memory was very expensive during those days, so it wasn't something that took off until CD audio was really popular with games.

Though didn't the N64 use midi or something similar?

[StelzenBomber]

http://www.ign.com/articles/1998/02/25/ ... on-the-n64

this is interresting and it maby helps?

i mean someone says that the n64 doesnt even have a soundchip

[Master]

Can't comment on the midi, but in the topic of size, didn't Rayman 2 N64 come with higher resolution textures, that required the Expansion Pak to use?

[Adsolution]

Why only have some tracks be MIDI and others not? I'd rather everything stay consistent. They could probably fit the entire CD soundtrack onto the cartridge, but it would have to be compressed to such a terrible extent.

I think the MIDI work in the N64 version is... mediocre. That's my biggest gripe with it. They do well to convey the feel of the originals, but they sound so flat and barren when compared to something like SM64's soundtrack which sounds absolutely fantastic. It's crisp, hard-hitting, and - let's be honest - sounds better than a lot of other produced CD soundtracks of the era.

[PluMGMK]

Can't comment on the midi, but in the topic of size, didn't Rayman 2 N64 come with higher resolution textures, that required the Expansion Pak to use?

I thought they were still lower-res than the PC version? I don't know…

[Adsolution]

Yeah, the PC version's textures are 128x128 on average, with the N64's being 32x32. I think they just double them.

[Steo]

I always wondered what that thing in the N64 was for. Mine has a "jumper pak" in it apparently.

Edit: OK so I just seen online that it actually wouldn't function without something in that slot and that it's only there to terminate the RAMBUS. Does the expansion pack make it work any better than the standard jumper pack or is it just a requirement for some games?

[Adsolution]

The expansion pak upgrades the system memory from 4 to 8 MB.

[Steo]

The expansion pak upgrades the system memory from 4 to 8 MB.

I never even knew that. I only have the jumper Pak and didn't know there was a difference. I actually used to think that was internal memory as in storage for save files and then thought OK that's an expansion pack but it's only a jumper Pak. Now that I found out it's only purpose is literally to bridge connections and make the system boot I've ordered a 4mb jumper pack. It even says that for Rayman 2 it makes the video a higher resolution.

[Adsolution]

Why not just order the expansion pak?

[StelzenBomber]

Why not just order the expansion pak?

because they cost much ?

[Steo]

Why not just order the expansion pak?

Oh! Oops I did order an expansion pak haha. I accidentally typed jumper pak

It cost me €10 on ebay from Australia but in the picture it says it's a 4mb RAM expansion pak.

[raysak]

I think that every answer has been far away from the question asked by the user. The user asked if the Nintendo 64 were able to play the soundtrack in the same CD audio quality? First question.
Then, if that had been possible, why developers haven't opted for a cartridge of a few MB larger to let the main soundtrack enter? It wouldn't have been so expensive. Second question.
Everyone answered vaguely or answered with other questions that were not applicable. Personally I was not able to answer the question.
However I tried to document myself on this italian forum: http://gamescollection.forumcommunity.net/?t=60586701 and I read that Super Mario 64 and Resident Evil 2 too have the soundtrack in the MIDI format, so that the Nintendo 64 seems to be unable to play other formats outside the DLS SoundBank, or MIDI format.

Let alone if the Ubi Soft developers with an already quality soundtrack would spontaneously choose the MIDI format for a stylistic issue, moreover, with the work time that would have involved convert and rewrite some of the tracks. Really!

Anyway we await opinions and any further confirmation from the most experienced users.

[Adsolution]

I think that every answer has been far away from the question asked by the user.

thejack asked why they didn't opt to use compressed CD audio instead of MIDI if there was still plenty of space they could've filled up on the cartridge, which was definitely answered by a number of people, myself included. They're not definitive reasons, but they're more than satisfactory given that they're fairly common knowledge and I can't think of a single N64 game that breaks this formula.

and I read that Super Mario 64 and Resident Evil 2 too have the soundtrack in the MIDI format,

Well of course, every N64 game does. That's not something you really have to read about.

The user asked if the Nintendo 64 were able to play the soundtrack in the same CD audio quality? First question.

:

They could probably fit the entire CD soundtrack onto the cartridge, but it would have to be compressed to such a terrible extent.

To expand on this, relating to something you mentioned:

so that the Nintendo 64 seems to be unable to play other formats outside the DLS SoundBank, or MIDI format.

Indeed, the N64 has never made use of compressed sound codecs - this was also pretty obvious - which is why it would sound awful if they decided to try and fit the whole CD soundtrack on the cartridge. It's possible, technically, but it would basically just mean making an entire track into two MIDI samples triggered at the same time (left and right). However, this would also mean that you wouldn't be able to pause them, only mute them temporarily, or start them over. Or you could splice them up into a bunch of tiny samples queued end-to-end, but that's... very hacky, and it would still sound like garbage.

Everyone answered vaguely or answered with other questions that were not applicable.

Pardon my tone, but I don't really appreciate how you came here with such a loaded tone in the first place, especially given that our answers were plenty sufficient.

[Reese Riverson]

Then, if that had been possible, why developers haven't opted for a cartridge of a few MB larger to let the main soundtrack enter? It wouldn't have been so expensive.

It's just the simple fact that memory was very expensive during those days, so it wasn't something that took off until CD audio was really popular with games.

I'm not going to repeat what Ad has said above, but I've basically already answered the question you asked in my post above.

Want additional information? Then here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_ ... uring_cost

[Steo]

Everyone answered vaguely or answered with other questions that were not applicable

We're all talking about the N64 still and it has already been answered, so why open a new thread to talk about the N64 when we can just do it here

EDIT: So there's a sharpness option in the options menu I didn't know about and the option to change the resolution is there too. I don't have the expansion pack just yet though but this should be interesting as it already seems to look better than the PS1 version.

[useu]

This post has aroused my interest.

I think I understand why the user was a bit grumpy in answering, but in part I agree with him.
Here the question, indeed, the few questions, are very simple but are given more answers too, if not almost exclusively personal, which in the end do not answer the question that in itself is very simple.

At this point I try to reformulate the question in the hope that the answer is clearer, more objective and more definitive:

First of all, the Nintendo 64, because of the cartridge support, would have been EFFECTIVELY (so we exclude any hypothesis) able to reproduce the soundtrack of the game in the SAME digital audio quality of the PlayStation 1 counterpart?
Yes or No? If yes, the most experienced motivate the first answer.

Secondly, the choice of the (MIDI) format used for the soundtrack of Rayman 2 for Nintendo 64 has depended OF FACT on the capacity of the cartridge or the fact that the Nintendo 64 was not able to reproduce the sound in digital audio quality? I give a practical example, suppose that the developers had exploited a large cartridge twice the size of the game (from 60MB or higher if it existed) could have inserted and then SOUND, REPRODUCE, the soundtrack in the same digital audio quality of the CD format?
Yes or No?
Frankly I have some doubts since the OFFICIAL story teaches that cartridge games have never supported digital audio except for some sound effects.
As this question is the fulcrum of the whole discussion I ask for a direct and precise answer, thank you.

Finally, the Ubi Soft developers who objectively dedicated and invested a lot in this colossal, despite the cartridge support and the impossibility of using other formats outside the MIDI, could have played and then play better than they did the soundtrack in the Nintendo 64 version?
Yes or No? If Yes, the most expert explain how and why?

These are the questions on which the whole discussion revolves, but here we speak mostly for incocluding hypotheses without ever reaching the answer, and forgive me.