Linux

[PluMGMK]

Today is Linux's 0x20th birthday! https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-6.6-rc2-Released

[Steo]

I had missed out on its birthday.

___

I have been using Arch lately, due to the fact that I haven't had the time to keep maintaining LFS while trying to study and spend time on other things etc. What's weird though is that even on Arch, a version of Unity I wanted to use was broken. It would freeze while loading the project, and apparently it was able to be mitigated with by replacing bee_backend with a bash script, because according to a post I found elsewhere:

After a bit of investigating I found out that the culprit was bee_backend and more particularly the --stdin-canary that was preventing the process to close on completion.

This wasn't happening on Debian when I tried it though, just Arch. At least there was a workaround for it though, as it was the only thing that wasn't working for me and it was making things awkward having to think of using another OS just for one thing.

[Reese Riverson]

What's weird though is that even on Arch, a version of Unity I wanted to use was broken. It would freeze while loading the project, and apparently it was able to be mitigated with by replacing bee_backend with a bash script, because according to a post I found elsewhere:

Steo, let's be real here. When is Unity not broken?

Though I'm glad you managed to get a workaround going, but this is definitely one of the main reasons I never stuck through with staying on Linux for my normal desktop use. I'll still use it for my servers without hesitation. You generally have to find workarounds for specific distros, and what typically works for Debian, just won't in something else. Personally I've always been a big fan of OpenSuse, but I haven't explored any of it since... geeze I want to say when you and I talked super frequently on Discord.

I seriously just haven't been keeping up with Linux enough lately, so I did miss out on its birthday.

[Steo]

Steo, let's be real here. When is Unity not broken?

Though I'm glad you managed to get a workaround going, but this is definitely one of the main reasons I never stuck through with staying on Linux for my normal desktop use. I'll still use it for my servers without hesitation. You generally have to find workarounds for specific distros, and what typically works for Debian, just won't in something else. Personally I've always been a big fan of OpenSuse, but I haven't explored any of it since... geeze I want to say when you and I talked super frequently on Discord.

I seriously just haven't been keeping up with Linux enough lately, so I did miss out on its birthday.

I noticed that a lot of the fixes or anything properly working is usually for Debian, or something based on it. I've grown to using Arch a lot at this point, though I can also understand people not wanting to go through the effort of installing without a GUI. I know Manjaro is a close to Arch experience with a GUI installer though. I recall trying Fedora in the past after talking to you, but I forget how my experience was with this. OpenSuse is supposed to be useful for servers also. I haven't experimented much lately, but in the past I used to use Gentoo, then complied all of LFS like Plum, but I don't have the time or energy to compile everything all the time and spend days fixing things every time something breaks, so that's why I'm on Arch now. I love it for the most part, but ofc there are still times where things go wrong, such as well, Unity lol.

[Reese Riverson]

I noticed that a lot of the fixes or anything properly working is usually for Debian, or something based on it. I've grown to using Arch a lot at this point, though I can also understand people not wanting to go through the effort of installing without a GUI. I know Manjaro is a close to Arch experience with a GUI installer though. I recall trying Fedora in the past after talking to you, but I forget how my experience was with this. OpenSuse is supposed to be useful for servers also. I haven't experimented much lately, but in the past I used to use Gentoo, then complied all of LFS like Plum, but I don't have the time or energy to compile everything all the time and spend days fixing things every time something breaks, so that's why I'm on Arch now. I love it for the most part, but ofc there are still times where things go wrong, such as well, Unity lol.

Oh yeah, Fedora was another one I liked. You reminded me of that, since it slipped my mind the day I wrote that post.

I probably should take a look at seeing how things are between Fedora and OpenSuse again, but I can't be assed to set everything up with Arch myself. I admire your dedication for that stuff.

I do recall my experiences with Fedora at least, I'm certain I used to run it on my Asus Zenbook, I don't recall the reason I took it off finally. Probably due to software related requirements most likely. Sadly that is the problem when it comes to trying anything different sometimes. Even in the MacOS space.

[Steo]

Oh yeah, Fedora was another one I liked. You reminded me of that, since it slipped my mind the day I wrote that post.

I probably should take a look at seeing how things are between Fedora and OpenSuse again, but I can't be assed to set everything up with Arch myself. I admire your dedication for that stuff.

I do recall my experiences with Fedora at least, I'm certain I used to run it on my Asus Zenbook, I don't recall the reason I took it off finally. Probably due to software related requirements most likely. Sadly that is the problem when it comes to trying anything different sometimes. Even in the MacOS space.

I just recall Fedora as being one of the first ones that I got working properly, because for some reason no matter what I was trying with my Nvidia GPU back then, it didn't want to work. I have no idea why, as these days you just get Nouveau and can decide to use the proprietary driver if you want. Whatever happened back then, it wouldn't even boot, and I think I had to install non-free firmware iirc.

I got Debian working after that though and then eventually got to experimenting with other distros. Of course at this point I just like having an OS that works properly that I'm comfortable with. That being said, I have recently tried moving my Plasma taskbar to the top instead of the bottom, in an attempt to try adapt given environments such as GNOME have it placed there.

Speaking of which, do you remember what environment you were using? I think I recall you having a Vista theme on Plasma in the past, but was wondering if that's still the environment you'd go with. Personally I like it a lot because it's very customisable.

[Reese Riverson]

Speaking of which, do you remember what environment you were using? I think I recall you having a Vista theme on Plasma in the past, but was wondering if that's still the environment you'd go with. Personally I like it a lot because it's very customisable.

I probably would go with Plasma, since I still like how Windows Vista (and Windows7) looked. Though I'm more fond of Vista in terms of the task bar. I miss how aero glass looked, I love it over what Microsoft does today with Windows.

[Steo]

I probably would go with Plasma, since I still like how Windows Vista (and Windows7) looked. Though I'm more fond of Vista in terms of the task bar. I miss how aero glass looked, I love it over what Microsoft does today with Windows.

Yeah honestly I liked how it looked with the glass theme. I remember that being one of the main reasons that I wanted Vista back in the day, when my computer was too crappy to actually install it.

I still think the likes of that and iOS 6 looked good to be honest. Like, it's been put into our minds at this point that it's "old fashioned" and that basic and plain is what's in these days, but it actually does look better when you think about it.

Not sure why everything is turning so plain these days, even look at the Pringles logo...

[Reese Riverson]

Yeah honestly I liked how it looked with the glass theme. I remember that being one of the main reasons that I wanted Vista back in the day, when my computer was too crappy to actually install it.

I still think the likes of that and iOS 6 looked good to be honest. Like, it's been put into our minds at this point that it's "old fashioned" and that basic and plain is what's in these days, but it actually does look better when you think about it.

Not sure why everything is turning so plain these days, even look at the Pringles logo...

On my Asus Zenbook I basically at least modified the Windows 10 taskbar to look like Vista's. I wish I could have the full UI styling back to the way Vista's was.

Old fashioned my foot, I feel Windows 3.1 had more style than what we have today. The whole basic and plain just looks super lazy and childish, if not worse than. I've said this since Windows 8 came around. Ugh, remember that move Microsoft made? I bet that drove a lot of people to Linux and MacOS.

Let's not forget the stupidity they did with Windows 11 relating to the context menus, making you go through extra stupid steps you don't need to be going through. Removal of the ability to move the taskbar anywhere on the screen like you used to could. I knew folks who loved moving their taskbar to the top of the screen, even in Linux. Windows seems to be getting less customizable where the likes of Linux feels like it's been more customizable.

[PluMGMK]

Just today I got an email at work saying everyone needs to upgrade to Win11

And yes, I was one of those people pushed to Linux at the time of Win8 (though that wasn't the only reason I switched...)

[Steo]

On my Asus Zenbook I basically at least modified the Windows 10 taskbar to look like Vista's. I wish I could have the full UI styling back to the way Vista's was.

Old fashioned my foot, I feel Windows 3.1 had more style than what we have today. The whole basic and plain just looks super lazy and childish, if not worse than. I've said this since Windows 8 came around. Ugh, remember that move Microsoft made? I bet that drove a lot of people to Linux and MacOS.

Let's not forget the stupidity they did with Windows 11 relating to the context menus, making you go through extra stupid steps you don't need to be going through. Removal of the ability to move the taskbar anywhere on the screen like you used to could. I knew folks who loved moving their taskbar to the top of the screen, even in Linux. Windows seems to be getting less customizable where the likes of Linux feels like it's been more customizable.

I honestly wish you were allowed to just make it look the way you wanted to, in terms of customisation. I don't know why they're doing ridiculous things like forcing changes regarding the UI when people should be able to just customise it.

Regarding the menus, yes this is really stupid. I find it really annoying having to open a context menu from another context menu. Who's stupid idea was that!

Also, my girlfriend likes the taskbar at the top, and had to jump through hoops just to put it there due to well, Microsoft's stupidity. She has to use Windows for the course as far as I know, but then again I also have to use Windows when it comes to taking exams (I use Linux otherwise).

Linux to me always seemed so customisable, to the point if I had put in the effort of understanding how to use it in my teen years, I probably would have had a lot of fun with it.

Just today I got an email at work saying everyone needs to upgrade to Win11

And yes, I was one of those people pushed to Linux at the time of Win8 (though that wasn't the only reason I switched...)

Ah yes, forced "upgrades".

One of the reasons I switched was the fact that a couple of people I talked to at the time kept recommending it, and Hoodcom was one of those too. At least when it came to us ranting about telemetry stuff, and the fact they try not to let you disable it.

[Reese Riverson]

Just today I got an email at work saying everyone needs to upgrade to Win11

And yes, I was one of those people pushed to Linux at the time of Win8 (though that wasn't the only reason I switched...)

That's a bummer, I say as I run Windows 11 on my desktop at home.

For those around here who want to re-take some control and make things better, I do use StartAllBack. Which brings back the context menu back to its former glory, gets you the Windows 10 taskbar back, and a start menu more like Windows 7 or improved version of Windows 7's. It allows you to tweak things a bit. It may be harder for Plum to convince the work place to use an application to make Windows 11 better, but this is more for anyone looking around for their own system.

I honestly wish you were allowed to just make it look the way you wanted to, in terms of customisation. I don't know why they're doing ridiculous things like forcing changes regarding the UI when people should be able to just customise it.

Regarding the menus, yes this is really stupid. I find it really annoying having to open a context menu from another context menu. Who's stupid idea was that!

Also, my girlfriend likes the taskbar at the top, and had to jump through hoops just to put it there due to well, Microsoft's stupidity. She has to use Windows for the course as far as I know, but then again I also have to use Windows when it comes to taking exams (I use Linux otherwise).

Linux to me always seemed so customisable, to the point if I had put in the effort of understanding how to use it in my teen years, I probably would have had a lot of fun with it.

I agree, it's incredibly stupid of them. The context menu stupidity is probably the worst one, like what in what universe did someone think this is a good idea to add extra steps?! I remember reading a website recently, toasty something, an older website that would still load on my Windows 98SE laptop in IE or Retrozilla perfectly today, that had complaints about Windows 8 going against like 30+ years of GUI research and development. Microsoft is not helping their case on still making some of the worst UI choices. It's backwards, stupid, and they need to stop it. As well as stop trying to fucking advertise their stupid OneDrive backup services in Explorer. Yeah, my friend Ryan pointed out to me that in the recent update for 23H2 that they're doing that shit.

Screenshot_2023-11-12_223259.png (11.31 KiB) Viewed 694 times

That's one thing that'll piss me off too, and I'm sure any one of y'all would be as well about this one...

See, your girlfriend only proves my point further on how people love to customize the desktop to tailor to their needs. To work around their needs! I remember the initial Windows 11 announcement video, I swear the dude wanted to cry a lot over Windows 11... but if I remember correctly he was talking how Windows should work around your workflow... blah blah blah... except... it doesn't...

Though yeah, Linux gives you so much freedom. It might be a steeper learning curve, but some people are willing to take that challenge.

[Steo]

I agree, it's incredibly stupid of them. The context menu stupidity is probably the worst one, like what in what universe did someone think this is a good idea to add extra steps?! I remember reading a website recently, toasty something, an older website that would still load on my Windows 98SE laptop in IE or Retrozilla perfectly today, that had complaints about Windows 8 going against like 30+ years of GUI research and development. Microsoft is not helping their case on still making some of the worst UI choices. It's backwards, stupid, and they need to stop it. As well as stop trying to fucking advertise their stupid OneDrive backup services in Explorer. Yeah, my friend Ryan pointed out to me that in the recent update for 23H2 that they're doing that shit.

Screenshot_2023-11-12_223259.png

That's one thing that'll piss me off too, and I'm sure any one of y'all would be as well about this one...

See, your girlfriend only proves my point further on how people love to customize the desktop to tailor to their needs. To work around their needs! I remember the initial Windows 11 announcement video, I swear the dude wanted to cry a lot over Windows 11... but if I remember correctly he was talking how Windows should work around your workflow... blah blah blah... except... it doesn't...

Though yeah, Linux gives you so much freedom. It might be a steeper learning curve, but some people are willing to take that challenge.

Yeah honestly the fact that they're just making things more tedious for no reason at all is stupid. I have no idea who was like "Wow, now we have to open a context menu then click to open the original context menu? Great idea Jim!".

She literally had to install programs just to try to move the taskbar to the top, because changing the value in the registry wasn't working for her. What makes it worse, is that the program to do that is shareware lol. Like literally, stop removing basic features that other people might want to use. I for example now have my taskbar on the top on Linux. It makes no sense for them to take away things like that, in fact, they have to apply more effort in order to remove those things and make it awkward.

Stupid choices like these are why I now use Linux as my daily driver despite using Windows for many years, and of course it was worth the learning curve for me. I love learning things and looking into things in depth either way. It's gotten to the point where if someone needed help with Windows, I'd have trouble finding the menus myself for two reasons, because they keep moving things all the time, and because I haven't been using Windows.

[Reese Riverson]

Yeah honestly the fact that they're just making things more tedious for no reason at all is stupid. I have no idea who was like "Wow, now we have to open a context menu then click to open the original context menu? Great idea Jim!".

She literally had to install programs just to try to move the taskbar to the top, because changing the value in the registry wasn't working for her. What makes it worse, is that the program to do that is shareware lol. Like literally, stop removing basic features that other people might want to use. I for example now have my taskbar on the top on Linux. It makes no sense for them to take away things like that, in fact, they have to apply more effort in order to remove those things and make it awkward.

Yep, even the part of them forcing you to have the damn thing connected to the internet when you buy a new Windows 11 machine or freshly install Windows 11. Them trying to make you sign into a Microsoft account. Fortunately there still are ways around that, but we shouldn't have to deal with this bullshit.

For my taskbar needs on Windows 11 I use Startallback, it'll let you do stuff like moving it back to the top, or setting it to be on the top with a setting. Get your right click back for context menus and everything. It's inexpensive too.

At least on Linux you don't need to have the internet, and can happily have a local user account without any fuss. Which is why I made a fuss about it above since I had to do the work around on that new laptop.

[Steo]

Yep, even the part of them forcing you to have the damn thing connected to the internet when you buy a new Windows 11 machine or freshly install Windows 11. Them trying to make you sign into a Microsoft account. Fortunately there still are ways around that, but we shouldn't have to deal with this bullshit.

For my taskbar needs on Windows 11 I use Startallback, it'll let you do stuff like moving it back to the top, or setting it to be on the top with a setting. Get your right click back for context menus and everything. It's inexpensive too.

At least on Linux you don't need to have the internet, and can happily have a local user account without any fuss. Which is why I made a fuss about it above since I had to do the work around on that new laptop.

Forcing you to do that and make a Microsoft account is kind of stupid. Windows never forced people to make accounts before, it was entirely optional.

I'll be sure to mention that to her in case it comes in handy. I might even tinker with it myself next time I boot Windows on my computer, assuming I need to use it for something.

Also yeah, no matter what distro I use, I could just install it with a local account and it's that simple. With that said, distro's like Arch usually need to download assets because they're more minimal, though for the most part you don't really need internet to install a distro that already includes everything instead of being a netboot one.

[Reese Riverson]

Forcing you to do that and make a Microsoft account is kind of stupid. Windows never forced people to make accounts before, it was entirely optional.

I'll be sure to mention that to her in case it comes in handy. I might even tinker with it myself next time I boot Windows on my computer, assuming I need to use it for something.

Also yeah, no matter what distro I use, I could just install it with a local account and it's that simple. With that said, distro's like Arch usually need to download assets because they're more minimal, though for the most part you don't really need internet to install a distro that already includes everything instead of being a netboot one.

Yeah, and the other dumb thing is I don't think even Apple forces you to have to have an Apple account either on MacOS. You can just set it all up, even offline. Microsoft just goes out of their way to enforce this more and more and it's dumb. Oh what happened to the old days of computers... at least... Microsoft based ones... Oh right... the same company that forced Netscape out of the picture with IE back in the day out of monopoly tactics.

Yeah fair, but what's nice is having the option with Linux for the most part. Set it up to your liking and enjoy the non-intrusive OS!

[PluMGMK]

Now there's that bizarre situation with OpenAI… I don't know what a repeat of the "Microsoft hegemony" story will look like with powerful AI in the picture…

[Reese Riverson]

Ugh, I'm starting to hate AI with all the push of it in the dumbest ways.

I don't think it's even to the point where it's reliable enough still is mostly it, and now some browsers and search engines just want to shove it in your face too.

Though it sounds like the likes of Windows 12 at least would have more of that implemented into it, from what some rumors claim anyway? Which we still might be a bit too early for that sort of speculation.

[Steo]

Yeah, and the other dumb thing is I don't think even Apple forces you to have to have an Apple account either on MacOS. You can just set it all up, even offline. Microsoft just goes out of their way to enforce this more and more and it's dumb. Oh what happened to the old days of computers... at least... Microsoft based ones... Oh right... the same company that forced Netscape out of the picture with IE back in the day out of monopoly tactics.

Yeah fair, but what's nice is having the option with Linux for the most part. Set it up to your liking and enjoy the non-intrusive OS!

Apple is definitely making more sense in this case then. Microsoft do a lot of questionable things these days, to the point I wish you were just simply allowed to use Linux for everything, such as work etc.

It feels pretty free also, like you can do whatever you want as long as you know how to, which I like.

[Reese Riverson]

Apple is definitely making more sense in this case then. Microsoft do a lot of questionable things these days, to the point I wish you were just simply allowed to use Linux for everything, such as work etc.

It feels pretty free also, like you can do whatever you want as long as you know how to, which I like.

Yeah, and honestly I've considered something like the Mac Mini before since it'd be small enough to keep out of the way.


Speaking of Linux though, I've had ideas on what I've wanted to try in the past but I've never gotten around to it... I have an old Zenith 486 computer with an actual integrated ethernet card on the board. I really wanted to toy with this and see about some how running Linux on that thing for the grins and giggles but I've forgotten everything I looked up before.

Is there anything that's still installable via floppy disks or bootable via floppy disks? I could install my SCSI card and have an external optical drive, or I could probably put in a CD-ROM into that system. I just don't know what options I have for something this old these days. It's just something that seemed like a fun experiment regardless.