Off Topic

[Shrooblord]

They sent her a Photoshopped image of him being hanged.

Jesus Christ, lay down with the hate, people.

[OCG]

I see no need for all the hate
People should just stop.

[Fifo]

-post moved to the Pluses and Minuses thread-

[OCG]

Shouldn't you post that in pluses and minuses thread?

[Fifo]

Oh, yeah, sorry! Moving post.

[sonicbrawler182]

Some reporter on Fox News called Robin Williams "such a coward" over his suicide:

[OCG]

What an ass. Who is he to judge if someone is coward or not?

[Shrooblord]

Keep in mind he was just speculating. I remember we had a very similar conversation about suicide on these forums a few months back and a lot of people raised the point of it being cowardly. That such a notable figure as Robin Williams did it shouldn't change that view. If you think suicide is cowardly, you should also think his was. Else, you'd better look at your morals again.

[OCG]

Keep in mind he was just speculating. I remember we had a very similar conversation about suicide on these forums a few months back and a lot of people raised the point of it being cowardly. That such a notable figure as Robin Williams did it shouldn't change that view. If you think suicide is cowardly, you should also think his was. Else, you'd better look at your morals again.

Suicide being cowardly or not depends for what reason person commited suicide in my opinion. Do I think if some emo complains about his life non-stop and commits suicide is coward? Yes. Do I think person who commits suicide over "cyber-bullying" is coward? Yes I do. Do I think that ANY person who suffers from depression (not just Robin Williams) is coward? No because depression is horrible thing and they should be helped to overcome it.

[iHeckler9]

I just found out about the pant-dirtying game known as "Five Nights at Freddy's". Jesus Christ almighty, I haven't played it, I haven't seen any gameplay videos of it, but it's enough to make me never play it again.
Horse tranquillizers tonight before bed I think.

[MLII]

neigh

wait so if you haven't seen any videos how do you know it's so scary? ARGH IT HAS A FRED THIS IS DISASTEROUS

[iHeckler9]

I've seen gifs...and on the TVTropes page it said it was full of jumpscares. Just the trailer is spooky.

To basically summarise the plot, in a desperate bid for money, you decide to work from midnight to 6 in the morning at ye olde pizzeria. Said pizzeria is full of killer animatronics that want to make you into one of them. Luckily the doors are locked.
Oh, but you have limited electricity and you have to keep watching the robots on your handy tablet or they'll find you.

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP4UTOek0-Y if you're brave enough.

[The Edditaur]

I remember we had a very similar conversation about suicide on these forums a few months back and a lot of people raised the point of it being cowardly. That such a notable figure as Robin Williams did it shouldn't change that view. If you think suicide is cowardly, you should also think his was. Else, you'd better look at your morals again.

Thank you.

I see way too many instances of this, where people use double standards of "Oh, I liked that guy, so he's a hero when he killed himself", and can then go to "That guy I've never heard of or have no relation or care to? Yup, cowardly little shit for offing himself".

Honestly, if you're going to feel a certain way about something, stick to it and don't zig-zag the topic based on how famous the person in question is.

I personally don't find suicide a cowardly thing, and I don't pity those who attempt or succeed in doing it.
Sue me.

[saerleiya]

I don't even know why we are talking about suicide and cowardice. At the end, this life you have is your own, and you do what you want with it. Yes, you have the right to consider it worthless and to think it would be better for the others to live in a world without you or for you not to live in this world anymore. One day, a wise old man said that we aren't eternal in this world, so what matters is what to do with the time we were given.

And that's actually true: I personnally consider it worth to continue to live down there and use this time I have left to do stuff. If people consider they don't want it anymore, that's their right. Talking about being a coward or not based on a particular situation for each suicide that happens is hypocritical in itself.

We could also put into perspective religion and the impact of possible existence of an afterlife as another influence onto the act of suicide, but it's not the place for that, and moreover there is nothing related to cowardice here.

[Earth Gwee]

Robin Williams once said that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. But depression can still be severe enough to drive a person to that breaking point, even if they know they shouldn't let themselves get to that point. He knew what he was doing, but he was already so broken by that point; he couldn't see another way out. That's what depression can do to someone if they don't get proper treatment for it. The problem is people are not educated in how depression works. Depression doesn't care who you are, whether you're a celebrity or a nobody, whether you're wealthy or poor. It's a disease that can strike anybody at anytime (usually early on) and it's not taken seriously enough. I am still sad that Robin is dead, but death can teach us many things, especially his death in particular, that people need to be educated on how depression works. They need to know where that can stem from and how to properly treat it. Robin was such a kind, generous soul, and it's even more sad that he was never given proper treatment for his depression, and partly because he barely talked about it and he also suffered from social anxiety, which didn't help things either. Now of course, I'm not excusing him for taking his own life given all these factors plus the loneliness he faced during childhood. And no, of course he wasn't a coward when he took his own life. You can be the strongest person in the world and still suffer from depression enough to see no other way out. Again, that's what it does to someone. People who call him a coward obviously never considered how courageous he was while he was alive, for how freely he expressed himself in front of a crowd and how good he was at it. What he did is something most people don't have the courage to do. But even more unfortunately, that kind of courage came from the loneliness he was forced to face as a kid. The fact that he stuck to it for that long despite all that he endured makes him even more courageous, in my book. What I'm most sad about is that he never got true closure for all that suffering. But we can still learn from what he lived through and what he left behind.

Apologies for the wall of text. Just needed to add my two cents.

[sonicbrawler182]

I was speaking of this on another topic on another website, but I personally think cowardice and selfishness are such trivial matters to attach to a much bigger and deeper issue like suicide. I frankly think that, anyone who attaches such labels to people who are going through suicidal thoughts or who have already took their lives, don't have any idea what they are talking about. Especially since the reasoning for such labels is often "you leave people who love you in grief and suffering". Well no shit, that's one of the first things that anyone with suicidal thoughts will think of, if not constantly think about that fact as they deal with the situation, let's not pretend that they don't know this. And I could easily turn that on it's head, and claim that the one's who don't want that person to die because they love them, are the selfish ones. But that just leads to an endless back and forth and it's something I also believe is meaningless to do. I just think it helps to remember that, as it provides perspective and shows you how ridiculous to call suicidal people cowards or selfish.

This is something I absolutely believe, by the way. I don't care what it is that drives the person to suicide. I still won't think they are selfish or a coward based on their suicide, as the act is not something that is related to those things.

[Shrooblord]

Do I think if some emo complains about his life non-stop and commits suicide is coward? Yes. Do I think that ANY person who suffers from depression is coward? No because depression is horrible thing and they should be helped to overcome it.

Don't you think the whiney emo kid is expressing his own depression and issuing a cry for help? Doesn't the emo kid need help to overcome whatever troubles him?

Nobody would commit suicide just because it's the stylistically right thing to do to fit the persona they've assumed. That's mental.

[Adsolution]

I was speaking of this on another topic on another website, but I personally think cowardice and selfishness are such trivial matters to attach to a much bigger and deeper issue like suicide. I frankly think that, anyone who attaches such labels to people who are going through suicidal thoughts or who have already took their lives, don't have any idea what they are talking about. Especially since the reasoning for such labels is often "you leave people who love you in grief and suffering". Well no shit, that's one of the first things that anyone with suicidal thoughts will think of, if not constantly think about that fact as they deal with the situation, let's not pretend that they don't know this. And I could easily turn that on it's head, and claim that the one's who don't want that person to die because they love them, are the selfish ones. But that just leads to an endless back and forth and it's something I also believe is meaningless to do. I just think it helps to remember that, as it provides perspective and shows you how ridiculous to call suicidal people cowards or selfish.

This is something I absolutely believe, by the way. I don't care what it is that drives the person to suicide. I still won't think they are selfish or a coward based on their suicide, as the act is not something that is related to those things.

For someone who claims that claims it isn't easy to make assumptions on a person's motive for suicide, which is correct, you seem pretty fucking set on excluding possibilities that are very possible, but that you I guess just don't like.

I'd wager that, of all the people in the world who have committed suicide, not all have thought it through or tested their endurance to the limit. In fact, I'd be willing to wager that a lot of people who've committed the act haven't. One of my uncles unfortunately is a prime example: that whole branch of my family is known to be ridiculously melodramatic, and he got drunk and hung himself over what was certainly a very temporary problem. Many people don't properly think things through before they act, and the fact that suicide is a rather significant decision doesn't change that.

Cowardice is the one of the most prominent parameters when it comes to suicide. By definition, cowardice means exhibiting the inability to endure pain and hardship and then cope with it. When someone considers suicide, in most cases, they're weighing their endurance level with the qualities of life itself. Cowardice is subjective, therefore your coward-threshold is your own opinion, but proclaiming that cowardice itself is completely irrelevant is some pseudo-philosophical nonsense that's been overcomplicated beyond rational thought.


There are rare and unusual exceptions to the matter which don't stem from depression, such as someone being euphorically fixated on the notion of death, like a passion. It isn't that they would rather continue living if suddenly their situation was well again, they simply prefer death. They can be legitimately happy people - they don't hate life, they simply prefer death. This mental state does have a name, but I can't remember wtf it's called.

[sonicbrawler182]

I was speaking of this on another topic on another website, but I personally think cowardice and selfishness are such trivial matters to attach to a much bigger and deeper issue like suicide. I frankly think that, anyone who attaches such labels to people who are going through suicidal thoughts or who have already took their lives, don't have any idea what they are talking about. Especially since the reasoning for such labels is often "you leave people who love you in grief and suffering". Well no shit, that's one of the first things that anyone with suicidal thoughts will think of, if not constantly think about that fact as they deal with the situation, let's not pretend that they don't know this. And I could easily turn that on it's head, and claim that the one's who don't want that person to die because they love them, are the selfish ones. But that just leads to an endless back and forth and it's something I also believe is meaningless to do. I just think it helps to remember that, as it provides perspective and shows you how ridiculous to call suicidal people cowards or selfish.

This is something I absolutely believe, by the way. I don't care what it is that drives the person to suicide. I still won't think they are selfish or a coward based on their suicide, as the act is not something that is related to those things.

For someone who claims that claims it isn't easy to make assumptions on a person's motive for suicide, which is correct, you seem pretty fucking set on excluding possibilities that are very possible, but that you I guess just don't like.

I'd wager that, of all the people in the world who have committed suicide, not all have thought it through or tested their endurance to the limit. In fact, I'd be willing to wager that a lot of people who've committed the act haven't. One of my uncles unfortunately is a prime example: that whole branch of my family is known to be ridiculously melodramatic, and he got drunk and hung himself over what was certainly a very temporary problem. Many people don't properly think things through before they act, and the fact that suicide is a rather significant decision doesn't change that.

Cowardice is the one of the most prominent parameters when it comes to suicide. By definition, cowardice means exhibiting the inability to endure pain and hardship and then cope with it. When someone considers suicide, in most cases, they're weighing their endurance level with the qualities of life itself. Cowardice is subjective, therefore your coward-threshold is your own opinion, but proclaiming that cowardice itself is completely irrelevant is some pseudo-philosophical nonsense that's been overcomplicated beyond rational thought.


There are rare and unusual exceptions to the matter which don't stem from depression, such as someone being euphorically fixated on the notion of death, like a passion. It isn't that they would rather continue living if suddenly their situation was well again, they simply prefer death. They can be legitimately happy people - they don't hate life, they simply prefer death. This mental state does have a name, but I can't remember wtf it's called.

My point was more that it's meaningless to harp on about it being an act of cowardice or not, and that it's certainly not an inherent part of the act. I wasn't saying that it can't be a factor, but I think it's an unimportant one, and definitely not an inherent one.

I could throw the same argument right back at you. You say cowardice is an inherently prominent factor, but aren't you "pretty fucking set on excluding possibilities that are very possible" in saying that? Tell me, how many "exceptional circumstances", such as the example of feeling euphoria at the thought of death that you mentioned, would it take for you to realise that cowardice isn't an inherent part of it?

Plus, weighing your endurance level with the qualities of life in your perceived view, and then offing yourself after the fact, in no way relates to cowardice. At all. It's simply making the choice of whether or not you feel life is still worth living, for you. That sounds much less like cowardice, and more like turning down something you feel isn't worth the price of admission. Cowardice implies the person is avoiding painful aspects simply because they are afraid of experiencing them at all. Cowards don't take into account whether or not pain is worth it at all, they avoid the pain by principle. They aren't willing to give it the time of day. Suicidal people generally fight the pain before performing the act. That pain could have been fought for a week, or months, or for years, it doesn't matter how long. Fighting at all is anything but cowardly. I don't mean to say that "suicide is OK as long as you fight it for a bit", not at all. I'm just pointing out how saying cowardice is inherently part of the act, is far from the truth. Tell me again how this is "some pseudo-philosophical nonsense that's been over-complicated beyond rational thought", and not the very definition of thinking about this situation in a rational manner.

And while I won't pry for details on what is likely a sensitive subject, likening a drunk person (i.e. someone who is not in a state of mind where they are fit to evaluate a situation and make decisions) who killed themselves over a very temporary problem, to someone who simply commits suicide at all, for any reason and after whatever amount of testing their limits, while sober, isn't a very good comparison, and in no way proves cowardice is an inherent part of suicide. You wouldn't compare someone who failed their driving test because they were drunk to someone who failed because they were genuinely bad even while being in a sober state of mind, so a similar comparison certainly doesn't work with suicide.

Whether or not their suicide was justified is a different story, but cowardice really has no inherent role here. A more appropriate term might be that they were just weak willed.

[Adsolution]

Tell me, how many "exceptional circumstances", such as the example of feeling euphoria at the thought of death that you mentioned, would it take for you to realise that cowardice isn't an inherent part of it?

Wtf? I was using that as an example of a non-depressive suicide, and that non-depressive suicides (cowardice being an inherent parameter in depressive suicides) are comparatively very rare. What the was your horribly non-sequitur question again?

A more appropriate term might be that they were just weak willed.

Someone with a weak will - They regress at the notion of having to put up with conflict, confrontation or hardship, the definition of a coward. If something doesn't go their way, a weak-willed person won't stand up and steer it in the direction they desire, so they are exhibiting cowardice at the thought of it and by allowing their weak will to take over. A person with a weak will is a coward. Cowards/those with a weak will who are considering suicide, like we appear to both have agreed upon, would enjoy life (and certainly want to) were it not for whatever it is that's getting them down, and, as you put it, raising the price of admission; if the price of admission were much lower, they would stop considering it. Some people who have managed to put up with a particular hardship for longer than anyone else could imagine themselves putting up with it for would likely be considered brave, and while a brave person is less of a coward than someone considered normal, that [extraordinarily] small bit of cowardice is still what ended their life.

'Coward', like I said before, is a subjective term, determined by the the speaker's threshold of how much cowardice is required to qualify as a coward. In the previous paragraph, I explained both literally and figuratively why cowardice is logically inherent in depressive suicide. I can't follow your reasoning largely because you can't even refrain from confusing your definitions, such as the this unclear and unexplained discernment between someone with a weak will and a coward, which seems to be very important to your argument.