Rayman Pirate-Community

Keane wrote:I don't believe Ancel nor his team is in any way dedicated to continuing or expanding anything from the glade. It's just Rayman's mushroom kingdom.

But note how The Mushroom Kingdom has some consistency from title to title. Sadly, the Mushroom Kingdom hasn't expanded or evolved in recent titles, but at least the world can be recognized and distinguished as the recurring Universe in the series. Whereas the Glade of Dreams is nearly unrecognizable from every title, but again considering this is a world composed of dreams, it can be as inconsistent as a dream, but that still gives no excuse for the large lack of atmosphere.

Disionity wrote:

Keane wrote:I don't believe Ancel nor his team is in any way dedicated to continuing or expanding anything from the glade. It's just Rayman's mushroom kingdom.

But note how The Mushroom Kingdom has some consistency from title to title. Sadly, the Mushroom Kingdom hasn't expanded or evolved in recent titles, but at least the world can be recognized and distinguished as the recurring Universe in the series. Whereas the Glade of Dreams is nearly unrecognizable from every title, but again considering this is a world composed of dreams, it can be as inconsistent as a dream, but that still gives no excuse for the large lack of atmosphere.

While different, I think Rayman 2 and 3 share some similarities in their locations for sure. They may not look entirely the same but I've always thought that Rayman 3 just takes place in another part of the Glade. It's the new games that are confusing. Origins is definitely based upon Rayman 1 (And while Desert of Dijiridoos and Gourmand Land don't really fit into the rest, I don't find them to be all that distant either) when it comes to the appearance of the Glade, but Rayman 1 takes place in The Valley. As for Legends, well, I have no idea. I couldn't tell you where Fiesta de los Muertos is.

I agree. It doesn't really touch me. But even though it fails to give any kind of caring feeling for the Glade, I at least gotta praise them for the fact that Legends does have some really cool ideas. I just wish some has been portrayed differently.

Keane wrote:

Disionity wrote:

Keane wrote:I don't believe Ancel nor his team is in any way dedicated to continuing or expanding anything from the glade. It's just Rayman's mushroom kingdom.

But note how The Mushroom Kingdom has some consistency from title to title. Sadly, the Mushroom Kingdom hasn't expanded or evolved in recent titles, but at least the world can be recognized and distinguished as the recurring Universe in the series. Whereas the Glade of Dreams is nearly unrecognizable from every title, but again considering this is a world composed of dreams, it can be as inconsistent as a dream, but that still gives no excuse for the large lack of atmosphere.

While different, I think Rayman 2 and 3 share some similarities in their locations for sure. They may not look entirely the same but I've always thought that Rayman 3 just takes place in another part of the Glade. It's the new games that are confusing. Origins is definitely based upon Rayman 1 (And while Desert of Dijiridoos and Gourmand Land don't really fit into the rest, I don't find them to be all that distant either) when it comes to the appearance of the Glade, but Rayman 1 takes place in The Valley. As for Legends, well, I have no idea. I couldn't tell you where Fiesta de los Muertos is.

I agree. It doesn't really touch me. But even though it fails to give any kind of caring feeling for the Glade, I at least gotta praise them for the fact that Legends does have some really cool ideas. I just wish some has been portrayed differently.

Gourmand Land fits with the Candy Chateau.

Keane wrote:I don't believe Ancel nor his team is in any way dedicated to continuing or expanding anything from the glade. It's just Rayman's mushroom kingdom.

*sigh*

OK, I'm going to have to say this now, because it's been bugging me as I lurked this topic before actually joining this site.

I'm NOT trying to be rude when I say this, but - do you guys KNOW what atmosphere is? As in, the definition of the word?

Lately, I see people completely misjudging the meaning of the word "atmosphere" in this community. As well as the word "emotional".

Something does not have to be sad, gloomy, quaint, or even give out "blue" emotions to be atmospheric and emotional. The fact that so many people seem to think that is why people say Legends has "no atmosphere".

Honestly, Legends has WAY more atmosphere than Rayman 2. As well as a greater variety of atmospheres.

I have literally sat around in the Main Gallery for upwards of a half an hour, just because it is so peaceful and relaxing, and it has such a "feel good" atmosphere. It makes me feel calm.

Teensies in Trouble perfectly captures the feeling of being in the middle of a battlefield at points, or in the middle of a lovely forest at other points. It goes from hectic to quaint in just one world. And I always feel like getting up and dancing during Fiesta de Los Muertos, not to mention it makes me hungry.

I could go on about all of the worlds, but I'd be gushing if I did so.
My point is, why is it that something has to be gloomy to be atmospheric to you guys? Because it doesn't need to be. There are more feelings and emotions and atmospheres than "gloomy" and "mysterious". Honestly, Rayman 2 didn't even feel like either of those things for the majority of the game. The story in that game is presented to you very clearly, and there is not much to speculate on. And while it's gloomy at the start, the game's family friendly comedy just kind of ruins the gloomy feeling it might of had (except for a small selection of levels). And honestly...I can't feel like I'm in a desperate last stand to save the world when the game is...well, REALLY EASY. And when there are not a lot of enemies. And when enemies are complete pipsqueaks anyway.

I'm not trying to bash Rayman 2, I love the game to death, and feel it's a masterpiece. But that's not because "it's a family friendly game that tried to be something more than happy go lucky and filled with primary colours, with a deep story" (well, the avoidance of primary colours part is something I do commend it for, at least).

And I am not going to say Rayman 2 has "no atmosphere". It does have it, and it does it well. I just think people overrate it, and paint it as much darker than it actually is. I do feel Rayman Legends handles the concept of atmosphere better than Rayman 2, though. It''s just a happier and more positive atmosphere most of the time, as well as intense. And there is nothing wrong with that. It perfectly fits the fast-paced, momentum-based gameplay.

And it's for that reason that I feel the Ubiart Rayman games are much more comparable to the Classic Sonic games than the New. Super Mario Bros games. Because they have great atmosphere, personality, and charm.

Bravo, dude.

Henchman1028 wrote:Gourmand Land fits with the Candy Chateau.

You may be interested to know that Rayman 1 takes place in The Valley, an island believed to located near the Glade.

sonicbrawler182 wrote:

Keane wrote:I don't believe Ancel nor his team is in any way dedicated to continuing or expanding anything from the glade. It's just Rayman's mushroom kingdom.

*sigh*

OK, I'm going to have to say this now, because it's been bugging me as I lurked this topic before actually joining this site.

I'm NOT trying to be rude when I say this, but - do you guys KNOW what atmosphere is? As in, the definition of the word?

Lately, I see people completely misjudging the meaning of the word "atmosphere" in this community. As well as the word "emotional".

Something does not have to be sad, gloomy, quaint, or even give out "blue" emotions to be atmospheric and emotional. The fact that so many people seem to think that is why people say Legends has "no atmosphere".

They certainly do not mean just those things, and I don't always use them for those reasons. Rayman 1 is far from being anything gloomy and I think it has tons of atmosphere. Super Mario Sunshine is about as happy as a game can get and I could use the term to describe it as well.

sonicbrawler182 wrote:Honestly, Legends has WAY more atmosphere than Rayman 2. As well as a greater variety of atmospheres.

I have literally sat around in the Main Gallery for upwards of a half an hour, just because it is so peaceful and relaxing, and it has such a "feel good" atmosphere. It makes me feel calm.

Teensies in Trouble perfectly captures the feeling of being in the middle of a battlefield at points, or in the middle of a lovely forest at other points. It goes from hectic to quaint in just one world. And I always feel like getting up and dancing during Fiesta de Los Muertos, not to mention it makes me hungry.

Legends does not reach Rayman 2's level at all.

I've said a million times that Legends has a very good idea but it doesn't go anywhere. Nothing is really standing out. It's just variations of one thing. Olympus Maximus needed one screenshot to get me interested. I had high hopes for this world but it let me down. Legends is all about the strange, wacky and often chaotic. And while it's great and fun, it just feels like too much for me. I'm really not that interested in a new Rayman game because I know if they make this a trilogy it's just going to grab those exact same things and do it again. A great move would have been to let Olympus be a moment to kind of reflect upon the craziness that has happened so far and give the player something new. Something unexpected. I know exactly from beginning to end what Legends is gonna do. It's not going to surprise me. Sure, every world has different themes, but they all are, like I said, variations of the same thing.

Toad Story is so perfect because it surprised me. Entering the level for the first time I was expecting the usual and that's what it didn't do. There should have been way more levels like it. Doesn't all have to have the same atmosphere, but there should be difference. Please, for fuck's sake, Olympus Maximus is gorgeous. Amazing! But then more of the same music comes throwing up over it and I just... agh. This is completely my opinion, but I already feel like the new Rayman world is starting to grow a bit tired. And again, my opinion, not true. But Rayman 2 still feels good as ever. I still love exploring it and learning more about the world its created. And that's not nostalgia because I didn't actually fully play Rayman 2 until 2011 and before that I only had a copy when I was really young.

sonicbrawler182 wrote:I could go on about all of the worlds, but I'd be gushing if I did so.
My point is, why is it that something has to be gloomy to be atmospheric to you guys? Because it doesn't need to be. There are more feelings and emotions and atmospheres than "gloomy" and "mysterious". Honestly, Rayman 2 didn't even feel like either of those things for the majority of the game. The story in that game is presented to you very clearly, and there is not much to speculate on. And while it's gloomy at the start, the game's family friendly comedy just kind of ruins the gloomy feeling it might of had (except for a small selection of levels). And honestly...I can't feel like I'm in a desperate last stand to save the world when the game is...well, REALLY EASY. And when there are not a lot of enemies. And when enemies are complete pipsqueaks anyway.

The gloomy side of Rayman 2 is there and it's not all of the game. I love every side that Rayman 2 has because each is presented perfectly. The gloomy parts, the happy parts. Upon first entering the Woods of Light your greeted by this peaceful place accompanied by brilliant soundtrack. Rayman Legends starts of with "Shit gone wrong. Rayman & co. is gonna go save the world! THINGS HAPPENING! MEDIEVAL MUSIC! LOOK AT ALL THESE THINGS!!!". Toad Story would have been the better level to start the game with. Anyway, Rayman 2's pace and build up is... hm. I can't really describe it one sentence. If I had to fully explain why I like it so much I'd need to dedicate a whole new post the same size to it. Maybe someone else gets what I mean.

Legends/Origins is to Rayman what The Shake Dimension is to Wario Land. Much like Origins, Shake Dimension was to bring back a very good platforming series and while it had something good going it couldn't quite capture the same thing again. Of course it was different from the originals and that's fine. I don't mind that Origins wasn't just a new Rayman 1, but both games have kind of a... bizarre set of choices. Shake Dimension more in terms of gameplay. I don't want to give a shit about completing challenges, it's goddamn Wario Land. I just wanna beat up enemies and be the money loving bastard that Wario is. Origins/Legends is this in everything outside the gameplay. Origins's world feels like a bunch of leftovers from the original concept, and Legends just perfected it a bit more. I wish they gave more time to fully develop these places and give them some character.

sonicbrawler182 wrote:I'm not trying to bash Rayman 2, I love the game to death, and feel it's a masterpiece. But that's not because "it's a family friendly game that tried to be something more than happy go lucky and filled with primary colours, with a deep story" (well, the avoidance of primary colours part is something I do commend it for, at least).

And I am not going to say Rayman 2 has "no atmosphere". It does have it, and it does it well. I just think people overrate it, and paint it as much darker than it actually is. I do feel Rayman Legends handles the concept of atmosphere better than Rayman 2, though. It''s just a happier and more positive atmosphere most of the time, as well as intense. And there is nothing wrong with that. It perfectly fits the fast-paced, momentum-based gameplay.

And it's for that reason that I feel the Ubiart Rayman games are much more comparable to the Classic Sonic games than the New. Super Mario Bros games. Because they have great atmosphere, personality, and charm.

Rayman 2 can be compared to Half-Life (I know, I'm bringing Valve games up again) in the sense of how it draws you in. Much like Rayman 2, Half-Life has what are perhaps very subtle things that made it so amazing at the time. I never even thought about them until watching this video covering what really makes it good. It's the progression and changes in environment, the attacks of the Robo Pirates, meeting new figures. I'm not really sure whether it's opinion or not, but Rayman 2 to me is better at any platformer in setting the mood. Maybe I should just dedicate a thread to it someday but I doubt people would really care to hear it. I feel like I'm being a bit too vague with what I'm trying to say. Maybe I will anyway, but for now I can only agree with this quote:

Ryan Gage wrote:The gameplay was great, but, truly, it was the presentation of Rayman 2 that brought the whole package together. This was a game created by artists, not technicians, and its use of crisp, clear, beautifully crafted textures over relatively simple 3D objects is a testament to that. This isn't to say that Rayman 2 wasn't technically impressive at the time, because its massive 3D environments proved it certainly was that, but the creators of Rayman 2 wanted to awe you with the surreal, vivid world they had created, instead of showing you some nifty technical tricks. The lush, slightly off-kilter musical score certainly helped perpetuate this dreamy reality, as did the nonsense languages that the inhabitants of The Great Escape spoke.
Rayman 2: The Great Escape is more than the sum of its parts, though its parts are admittedly a bit impressive on their own. Its European roots show through – as do Rayman creator/designer Michel Ancel's interests in Nordic and Celtic mysticism – and lend the affair a flavour that has not been replicated since. Simply put, you will not have another video game experience quite like Rayman 2: The Great Escape, which is why we chose it as one of the greatest games of all time.
For my money, 3D platforming reached its absolute apex in Rayman 2: The Great Escape. I played through The Great Escape on the PC. Then I played through Rayman 2: Revolution on the PlayStation 2. And each time my experience with Rayman 2 had been simply sublime. It's an amazingly well-crafted platformer, providing a variety of play that most modern platformers can't match. But what stays with me the most, over time, is the beautiful, surreal world that Rayman 2 takes place in. I've not had a 3D platforming experience that good, before or since.

Bionichute wrote:

dartofthedavros wrote:can't find what you speak of, where can the scrapped content be found?

It's all in here. Lots of scrapped things, like the strange Cyclops motif in Olympus Maximus and an odd spider enemy.

THANKS! a bit hard to hear. who interviewed him? is this were he calls legends a porno?

I think I do get what you're saying, and I'm not going to say much in response because it's clear you value Rayman 2 in a special way, and my intention is not to change that, or make the game look bad.

I will say that I think part of the reason why you can't get into Legends as much is because you simply don't connect with it's style of story telling.

I initially said that Legends had a weak story, but after some further playthroughs, and some reading of interviews, I came to realise that it actually has a very strong storyline - it's just a very unconventional style.

There has been a recent new trend in gaming where a game only gives you the framework for a story, and doesn't explain much in concrete detail. But there is one thing all of these games have in common - they focus on co-op multiplayer.

While you might compare Rayman 2 to Half-Life, I would compare Rayman Legends to Journey. While the tone of the two games is drastically different, they both have very subtle foundations for mythos, and focus on co-operative play.

You see, the whole point of games like this is that while they may not have the most concrete mythos, that's intnetional - half of the game's story is supposed to be the experience you have, alone or with companions.

So yeah, I really think people need to look past Legends' seemingly nonsensical, crazy nature, and see the deeper meaning behind it. It's a couch co-op game for a reason. I also think this is partly why licensed music was used in the musical levels (as it gives people something to relate to, as many people recognise the songs used).

Though I don't think Origins accomplished this, nor did it seem like it was trying to. That was just straight up madness (not that I had a problem with it, I still love the game).

eh, still needed want a game with a story

When it all comes down to it, the next Rayman game needs a story. Gameplay comes first, but a Rayman game without a story feels...empty, like something REALLY important is missing.

If the next game is going to be a direct sequel to Legends, then yes, it really would need a real "wow" moment in relation to story-telling.

With Legends, I feel like they were playing it safe. The minimal story, the minimum change in gameplay, they probably did that to get new players used to the world of Rayman, but for the next game, they REALLY need a big story. Maybe not a story on the scale of games like The Wonderful 101, or even up to Puppeteer's level, but it needs to have something to connect these worlds together.

Bionichute wrote:With Legends, I feel like they were playing it safe. The minimal story, the minimum change in gameplay, they probably did that to get new players used to the world of Rayman, but for the next game, they REALLY need a big story. Maybe not a story on the scale of games like The Wonderful 101, or even up to Puppeteer's level, but it needs to have something to connect these worlds together.

Ooo you played Puppeteer. How is it?

Bzzit wrote:Ooo you played Puppeteer. How is it?

It's amazing and you should buy it.

I don't give a crap about the plot. I never did. The story has never been Rayman's strongest point.

That's because your freaking gay Sergio.

Funny enough I read BGAMER's review of Puppeteer and it does some comparasions with Rayman Legends, but they say it is a good game.

it may not be the best, but its like a shooter game without a machine-gun somewhere, not necessary by any means useful but important non the less!

Haruka wrote:Funny enough I read BGAMER's review of Puppeteer and it does some comparasions with Rayman Legends, but they say it is a good game.

I dare say I liked Puppeteer better than Legends. There's so much variety in it, and the characters are so charming, it's totally worth the 40 bucks.

sonicbrawler182 wrote:I'm NOT trying to be rude when I say this, but - do you guys KNOW what atmosphere is?

Do you?
I have taken three definitions from the free dictionary:

• a general pervasive feeling or mood
• the prevailing tone or mood of a novel, symphony, painting, or other work of art
• a special mood or character associated with a place

I think at least my use of the word is fine. I hope my post will explain this further. I won't respond to everything as I don't have that much time.

sonicbrawler182 wrote:While you might compare Rayman 2 to Half-Life, I would compare Rayman Legends to Journey. While the tone of the two games is drastically different, they both have very subtle foundations for mythos, and focus on co-operative play.

Mythos? In Rayman Legends? There's quite a contrast here, as Journey actually does have quite a big focus on it! The developers had the great idea of letting players discover the mythos themselves, which is something I'd love to see Ubisoft Montpellier attempt.

sonicbrawler182 wrote:You see, the whole point of games like this is that while they may not have the most concrete mythos, that's intnetional - half of the game's story is supposed to be the experience you have, alone or with companions.

Yes, it is in Journey, where the right mood is set for such a thing and you actually get the time to shape your story.

sonicbrawler182 wrote:So yeah, I really think people need to look past Legends' seemingly nonsensical, crazy nature, and see the deeper meaning behind it. It's a couch co-op game for a reason.

Indeed, Rayman Legends is a couch co-op game and a quite good one at that, but it has no deeper meaning. Everything in the game is focused on gameplay. It seems the developers of Rayman Origins and Legends deemed time trials, speedruns or just really fast platforming the most fun experience that they could deliver. Yes, it is fun, but without the story, interesting world, and above all, atmosphere that Rayman 2 and 3 had, the game feels devoid of feeling.

What was so great about the main Rayman trilogy was that all three games were an adventure. Let's take Rayman 2 as an example. For me at least, it conveyed the feeling that I was in a strange but wonderful world that I wanted to explore. All aspects of the game worked together to achieve this. The level design helped to create to interesting places. The sometimes wacky (in a non-intruding way) but mostly strange visuals and their very unique style brought them to life and made the Glade seem like a world we'd never seen before. The music and sounds continued this unique style and set the mood perfectly for them. And the gameplay allowed the players to take their time to appreciate all of it, yet at the same time realize the rising threat of the Robo-Pirate invasion. Now, tell me this: if you go hiking, would you rather stop to breathe and look at the environment, or would you rather just run and focus on the trail so you can get to the end as fast as possible?

This is where Rayman Legends picked the wrong answer for me. The focus now lies on the platforming, but the speed of it all often makes one unable to even look at the visuals or listen to the music. Why even bother to hire artists if you're going to let people appreciate their art? While focusing on your timing of the platforming, you easily forget everything else. It's great as a game, but all feelings of being on an adventure are cast aside while you storm through another bunch of toads to reach the goal as quickly as possible.

However, the main problem with Legends wouldn't be solved yet if it wasn't so fast, because it just doesn't have the adventuring spirit the games once had. This is the difference between games like Journey and Rayman 2, and games like Rayman Legends. Both Journey and Rayman 2 were adventures - "journeys". Like you said, in Journey, half of the game's story is supposed to be the experience you have, alone or with companions. It's a journey, the focus of the game lies on that journey, the title emphasizes it, and like Rayman 2 all elements of the game work together to give you the feeling that you're actually on a journey! In Rayman Legends, the elements that can make the game feel like an adventure - those that can create the right atmosphere - are all lacking:

• The visuals are pretty, detailed and sometimes create an interesting world but with a few exceptions, they are all things we've already seen. For example, too many games and movies show us castles, so why did they have to put us in a completely generic-looking castle again? I would have loved a more stylized castle. Put some feeling into it man!
• The music is well-made, but just like the visuals lack feeling, so does the music. Christophe Héral is a good composer, but it's saddening to see his talent partly go to waste in my eyes as his music is often forced to be loud and fast-paced. This is very noticeable, as the Toad Story music (Lost in the Clouds, which didn't even make it into the game, and Ray and the Beanstalk) which is the only slow music in the game, is suddenly full of feeling.
• The coherent worlds have been traded for incoherent levels.
• No man, there is no mythos, no matter what you say.
• The story's too generic and needs a bit more focus, even if it's not that good.

Fuck, I need to get up in 5 hours and 30 minutes. Time to stop writing and go to bed. Goodnight!