Rayman Pirate-Community

Xenon wrote: Look, this argument is getting so tiresome. It is quite simply obvious that Dark Rayman and Bad Rayman are not the same, however well you decorate your points. The fact is so crystal clear that I don't know how to express my argument.

That isn't a very good argument

If the fact was as "crystal clear" as you claim, you'd have won by now. But you don't seem able to.

Xenon wrote:You can say that they don't appear at the same time in the same game, but that means absolutely nothing. And you can argue all you like to how similar the two look (even though there's a clear difference), but again, that means nothing at all.

The difference between Bzzit and Moskito is much clearer, but that doesn't make anyone think they're different. There's also a clear difference in Rayman's appearance between R1 and Arena, so why would you expect Dark Rayman to stay the same?

...I'm with Xenon here.

As am I.

Seriously why are you all getting your knickers in a twist over this?

His clothes changed. So did Rayman's. I don't see why nobody can understand this.

When did Rayman's clothes change before R3?

That isn't a very good argument

If the fact was as "crystal clear" as you claim, you'd have won by now. But you don't seem able to.

It's like arguing over how many buns are composed of a ten-bun sale. Pointless. Dark Rayman is different. Fact.

The difference between Bzzit and Moskito is much clearer, but that doesn't make anyone think they're different. There's also a clear difference in Rayman's appearance between R1 and Arena, so why would you expect Dark Rayman to stay the same?

You're trying to form some genius link. Just because characters can mutate over the years (and Rayman indeed has) doesn't mean they WILL. Would you argue that Lums are Electoons going on the same grounds? If that's your only argument then you've instantly lost.

Besides it's a skin, not a character and their names are different. End of story! (?)

Xenon wrote: It's like arguing over how many buns are composed of a ten-bun sale. Pointless. Dark Rayman is different. Fact.

No, not a fact. And don't see where you're getting this ten-bun lark from. It annoys me when people use analogies that have absolutely nothing to do with what they're saying.

Xenon wrote:

The difference between Bzzit and Moskito is much clearer, but that doesn't make anyone think they're different. There's also a clear difference in Rayman's appearance between R1 and Arena, so why would you expect Dark Rayman to stay the same?

You're trying to form some genius link. Just because characters can mutate over the years (and Rayman indeed has) doesn't mean they WILL. Would you argue that Lums are Electoons going on the same grounds? If that's your only argument then you've instantly lost.

No, actually. I wouldn't argue that lums are electoons, because electoons are pink, round, non-glowing creatures with helicopter hair, which walk around the place after being broken out of cages. And lums are glowing, flying creatures made of light, which come in a number of varieties, and which can be absorbed by Rayman, giving numerous effects, and which created Polokus, who in turn dreamed the world. Can you list this many differences between "Bad" and Dark Rayman.

And just because characters can mutate over the years doesn't mean they WON'T.

Acarr wrote:Besides it's a skin, not a character and their names are different. End of story! (?)

I have addressed those issues in the other thread.

No, not a fact. And don't see where you're getting this ten-bun lark from. It annoys me when people use analogies that have absolutely nothing to do with what they're saying.

My analogy was perfectly appropriate: I was demonstrating how silly it is to be arguing over something so overt. How did you miss this connection?

No, actually. I wouldn't argue that lums are electoons, because electoons are pink, round, non-glowing creatures with helicopter hair, which walk around the place after being broken out of cages. And lums are glowing, flying creatures made of light, which come in a number of varieties, and which can be absorbed by Rayman, giving numerous effects, and which created Polokus, who in turn dreamed the world. Can you list this many differences between "Bad" and Dark Rayman.

I've already listed several differences that easily prove your theory wrong. The use of colour and clothing is the blatant one - just how diverse do you want the second 'version' to be?

Sorry Spiral, but I'm also with Xenon here. Dark Rayman was pretty much just a simple spell cast by Dark, which pretty much seemed to lose its power by the end of the level he was in. The Bad Rayman skin in Arena is most likely either a completely different character, or (which I deem more likely, even than your theory) Ray simply changing himself to a baddie for a round. Especially with a game that barely fits into continuity, I highly doubt any programmer deliberately mimicked the Dark Rayman spell.

Xenon wrote:My analogy was perfectly appropriate: I was demonstrating how silly it is to be arguing over something so overt. How did you miss this connection?

You didn't make that very clear; it seemed to me more like you were implying that you were obviously right and I was obviously wrong

Xenon wrote:I've already listed several differences that easily prove your theory wrong. The use of colour and clothing is the blatant one - just how diverse do you want the second 'version' to be?

The clothes, yes. But the colour differences are very slight. And anyone can change their clothes.

Zay-el wrote:Sorry Spiral, but I'm also with Xenon here. Dark Rayman was pretty much just a simple spell cast by Dark, which pretty much seemed to lose its power by the end of the level he was in. The Bad Rayman skin in Arena is most likely either a completely different character, or (which I deem more likely, even than your theory) Ray simply changing himself to a baddie for a round. Especially with a game that barely fits into continuity, I highly doubt any programmer deliberately mimicked the Dark Rayman spell.

I kind of like that idea, of Rayman changing his costume, but it seems unlikely, as Rayman can be seen at the same time as Dark Rayman. And you've gotten R1 and Arena mixed up a little, you have the names the wrong way.

While it is a rather pointless waste of time to be arguing about a non-canon game's relationship with a canon game's one, I don't think Dark Rayman would have been included in Arena if it weren't for the events in Candy Chateau...

Gawd, I'll just call them 1(R1 version) and 2(Arena version) from now on, and no one will be able to say anything. X3
If you're so sure that 1 directly influenced the appearence of 2, then I got only one nitpicking question for ya: What about Dark Globox? He wasn't even planned at the time of R1, yet his form is a full-grown CHARACTER even. If your theory was correct, almost everyone under the Good alignment should be having a Dark version runnin' around.

Dark Ly?
Dark Polokus?
Dark Clark (hehe, that rhymes)?

That would be crazy, I think

I'd love there to be a dark version of Ly actually.

I actually drew a "dark Ly" once.

http://pics.livejournal.com/cairnterror/pic/0001779p/g9

Made of fail and AIDS for the simple reason that it was based on Fairly Odd Parents, a cartoon that I now can't stand.

Adding the middle finger was a nice effect

Zay-el wrote:Gawd, I'll just call them 1(R1 version) and 2(Arena version) from now on, and no one will be able to say anything. X3
If you're so sure that 1 directly influenced the appearence of 2, then I got only one nitpicking question for ya: What about Dark Globox? He wasn't even planned at the time of R1, yet his form is a full-grown CHARACTER even. If your theory was correct, almost everyone under the Good alignment should be having a Dark version runnin' around.

I didn't think of that...that's awesome!

I can't believe that almost no one had these run through their heads before! XD Ah well, looks like I can still come up with some new ideas. ;3

By the way, awesome pic there Stacey!

Zay-el wrote:I can't believe that almost no one had these run through their heads before! XD Ah well, looks like I can still come up with some new ideas. ;3

Rayman Arena isn't exactly canon, so maybe we should take it with a pinch of salt