What do you think is the worst version of Rayman 2?

[Mortamon Saturn]

Maybe Rayman 2 Forever could be considered a sequel to Rayman Forever in that the former's quality parallels that of many of the 40 fanmade levels exclusive to the latter

That would make a lot of sense!
I finally got it: this game is made of cut fan levels from Rayman Designer which Ubisoft thought were so bad they could only be sold in a cheap Game Boy game!

In all seriousness, the fact they couldn't even bother to avoid being repetitive with the title and had to use such a typical English buzzword again (which is even more old-fashioned and uncreative from a French corporation) is a testament to how much they cared about this game!

Truly an amazing sequel to Rayman By His Fans Rayman GBC where we get to fight against such a greatly diverse cast of memorable Rayman enemies such as crabs, flying bombs... zombie chickens... crabs... spiders... more zombie chickens... and uhh... bombs!
Featuring many returning classic levels from Rayman 2 with incredible graphics™, such as: the Fairy Glade's green mold ocean, the Whale Bay with background fire and no water, the Cave of Eyes and Bones, the Sanctuary of Fire and Grey Pipes™, the Sanctuary of Lava and Ice That Doesn't Melt™, and of course... The Swamp of the Ancients featuring the Tomb's iconic wooden buildings and grey pipes™!

[dr_st]

Featuring many returning classic levels from Rayman 2 with incredible graphics™, such as: the Fairy Glade's green mold ocean, the Whale Bay with background fire and no water, the Cave of Eyes and Bones, the Sanctuary of Fire and Grey Pipes™, the Sanctuary of Lava and Ice That Doesn't Melt™, and of course... The Swamp of the Ancients featuring the Tomb's iconic wooden buildings and grey pipes™!

At least it's not Quake II with crates everywhere.

[Hunchman801]

I'm not sure which option to vote for... Out of all the versions I've played, Revolution is clearly the one I like the least. But on the other hand, it's obvious from what I'm reading that the DS and 3DS ones are objectively worse. I agree with everything that's been said about the GBC version (and that virgin vs. chad meme is pretty great by the way!), but at least it's something new and entirely different and it's hard to compare it with the others.

In short, Rayman 2 Forever makes me laugh. Revolution just makes me want to cry.

To the Sanctuary of Fire and Grey Pipes!

[dr_st]

I'm not sure which option to vote for... Out of all the versions I've played, Revolution is clearly the one I like the least.

Aren't you one of the biggest "Bzzit" advocates? Where would that theory be without Revolution?

[Hunchman801]

Aren't you one of the biggest "Bzzit" advocates? Where would that theory be without Revolution?

You've got me there.

I guess what I really like about this whole Bzzit thing is that the community somehow decided that those characters were one and the same, and that by the time some people starting pointing out that there was no evidence to support this assumption, it was already too late and the developers of Rayman Classic had made it official.

Given the confusion caused by the lack of lucid storytelling and the coloration inconsistencies in the original game, I like to think of it as a nice contribution from the community to the series' lore.

And surely, it's a better one than the Magician turning into an evil Teensie and speaking pig latin, right?

[dr_st]

That's a good point! A testimony to the value of this community to the canon (at the time when it was much younger) may be more important than the actual element.

[Mortamon Saturn]

I guess what I really like about this whole Bzzit thing is that the community somehow decided that those characters were one and the same, and that by the time some people starting pointing out that there was no evidence to support this assumption, it was already too late and the developers of Rayman Classic had made it official.

Given the confusion caused by the lack of lucid storytelling and the coloration inconsistencies in the original game, I like to think of it as a nice contribution from the community to the series' lore.

That moment when the headcanon becomes the actual canon.
I don't know if it should be taken as either a great sign of our community's strength or as a sign of Ubisoft's incompetence... Most likely both.

And surely, it's a better one than the Magician turning into an evil Teensie and speaking pig latin, right?

...Well then, Ubisoft, can you be more incompetent just one more time and bring back old characters + limbless people of Rayman's species and pretend Origins' worst retcons never happened just because I commented it here? Come on everyone, let's write it everywere on the RayWiki to convince them!
It seems we have great powers in our hands! And with great powers... comes great responsability... to retcon the Rayman series into cooking books all about plums!

The mosquitoes have always been such a curious ambiguity from the original Rayman! They probably tried to fix it in Revolution (otherwise "Bzzit" wouldn't be referred to as one of Rayman's friends)...
Which is not a bad attempt IMO (unlike other things in this game ), but that still doesn't explain why the mosquito chasing Rayman with a spiky fruit in Moskito's Nest still appears to be Bzzit in most versions despite them becoming buddies in Anguish Lagoon...
Who knows, maybe Rayman 1 always had three distinct mosquitoes all along just like there are more of them in Rayman 2, 2D Madness and Origins.

[Greengoop]

Ok, which criminal voted the iOS version as worst?

[The Jonster]

Well the iOS version isn't that amazing either if you have big fingers and a small phone.

The mosquitoes have always been such a curious ambiguity from the original Rayman! They probably tried to fix it in Revolution (otherwise "Bzzit" wouldn't be referred to as one of Rayman's friends)...
Which is not a bad attempt IMO (unlike other things in this game ), but that still doesn't explain why the mosquito chasing Rayman with a spiky fruit in Moskito's Nest still appears to be Bzzit in most versions despite them becoming buddies in Anguish Lagoon...
Who knows, maybe Rayman 1 always had three distinct mosquitoes all along just like there are more of them in Rayman 2, 2D Madness and Origins.

Yes, and then Origins decided to take from Revolution's 'change' instead of going with the designs that were used in other versions of Rayman 2 and Rayman 1 for the mosquito rides. Really good stuff there!

[Master]

I guess what I really like about this whole Bzzit thing is that the community somehow decided that those characters were one and the same, and that by the time some people starting pointing out that there was no evidence to support this assumption, it was already too late and the developers of Rayman Classic had made it official.

Given the confusion caused by the lack of lucid storytelling and the coloration inconsistencies in the original game, I like to think of it as a nice contribution from the community to the series' lore.

That moment when the headcanon becomes the actual canon.
I don't know if it should be taken as either a great sign of our community's strength or as a sign of Ubisoft's incompetence... Most likely both.

Much as I like to dunk in UbiSoft (and there is a LOT that they should rightfully be dunked on about), I feel like this is one of the things I can sorta let pass. I don't think the Devs of Rayman games ever really cared much for lore, that's always been the hangup of fans, so it'd stand to reason that it's RayWiki that ends up being the point of reference when it comes to lore since we're more likely to pay attention and make a log of these sorta details. At the end of the day, Rayman is a series of games oriented for kids, lore sadly isn't a point of interest.

[Hunchman801]

...Well then, Ubisoft, can you be more incompetent just one more time and bring back old characters + limbless people of Rayman's species and pretend Origins' worst retcons never happened just because I commented it here? Come on everyone, let's write it everywere on the RayWiki to convince them!
It seems we have great powers in our hands! And with great powers... comes great responsability... to retcon the Rayman series into cooking books all about plums!

Actually, that's a good point. Let's remove everything we don't like from RayWiki, wait for the developers to make it canon in the next port (I'm not gonna say next game ) and pretend it never happened.

The mosquitoes have always been such a curious ambiguity from the original Rayman! They probably tried to fix it in Revolution (otherwise "Bzzit" wouldn't be referred to as one of Rayman's friends)...
Which is not a bad attempt IMO (unlike other things in this game ), but that still doesn't explain why the mosquito chasing Rayman with a spiky fruit in Moskito's Nest still appears to be Bzzit in most versions despite them becoming buddies in Anguish Lagoon...
Who knows, maybe Rayman 1 always had three distinct mosquitoes all along just like there are more of them in Rayman 2, 2D Madness and Origins.

Well, I am still of the opinion that this was the intention when they added this friendly mosquito out of nowhere. They just failed to make it explicit enough so that it would be considered actual evidence.

It's true after all that there isn't a single theory which really holds given those inconsistencies between versions and inside of the same versions, so one is left to assume that one or several mistakes have been made somewhere. Based on that, the two-mosquito theory sounds like the least crazy of them all.

Much as I like to dunk in UbiSoft (and there is a LOT that they should rightfully be dunked on about), I feel like this is one of the things I can sorta let pass. I don't think the Devs of Rayman games ever really cared much for lore, that's always been the hangup of fans, so it'd stand to reason that it's RayWiki that ends up being the point of reference when it comes to lore since we're more likely to pay attention and make a log of these sorta details. At the end of the day, Rayman is a series of games oriented for kids, lore sadly isn't a point of interest.

While it's true that Rayman 2 feels like it takes place in a different world from the original game, and comes with a few inconsistencies in terms of lore, I don't think that was the case for Rayman 3, which follows nicely in the footsteps of its predecessor and certainly doesn't shit all over its lore like a seagull on laxatives (yes, Rayman Origins, I'm talking about you).

[Mortamon Saturn]

Actually, that's a good point. Let's remove everything we don't like from RayWiki, wait for the developers to make it canon in the next port (I'm not gonna say next game ) and pretend it never happened.

Finally... we get to snap Tily out of existence for the Rayman M port in 39 years!



In fact, I already started removing every mention of her on the RayWiki and... uhh? What was I talking about, again? I wrote this response but some words seem missing...

The mosquitoes have always been such a curious ambiguity from the original Rayman! They probably tried to fix it in Revolution (otherwise "Bzzit" wouldn't be referred to as one of Rayman's friends)...
Which is not a bad attempt IMO (unlike other things in this game ), but that still doesn't explain why the mosquito chasing Rayman with a spiky fruit in Moskito's Nest still appears to be Bzzit in most versions despite them becoming buddies in Anguish Lagoon...
Who knows, maybe Rayman 1 always had three distinct mosquitoes all along just like there are more of them in Rayman 2, 2D Madness and Origins.

Yes, and then Origins decided to take from Revolution's 'change' instead of going with the designs that were used in other versions of Rayman 2 and Rayman 1 for the mosquito rides. Really good stuff there!

Peak consistency! But thankfully, we finally figured out how to solve those little details!...
...Uhh, what stuff? I don't see what you're talking about! The whole series always kept the mosquito designs the same with clear distinction between Bzzit and Moskito! Just like how Rayman Revolution properly named every level like The Sanctuary of Rock and Lava (and with no inversion ), and Origins had a limbless good Magician! Trust me, the RayWiki says so now!

[PluMGMK]

Who knows, maybe Rayman 1 always had three distinct mosquitoes all along just like there are more of them in Rayman 2, 2D Madness and Origins.

Three mosquitos eh? I have to admit, I never thought about that, but it kinda makes sense on some level Like you said, the other games make it clear that the world is full of them, so why not have more than one in Rayman 1 even if they're kinda boss creatures?

BUT let me remind everyone that in the Jaguar version the mosquito who chases you is the same colour as the one you fight at the end of the level!

[Master]

Much as I like to dunk in UbiSoft (and there is a LOT that they should rightfully be dunked on about), I feel like this is one of the things I can sorta let pass. I don't think the Devs of Rayman games ever really cared much for lore, that's always been the hangup of fans, so it'd stand to reason that it's RayWiki that ends up being the point of reference when it comes to lore since we're more likely to pay attention and make a log of these sorta details. At the end of the day, Rayman is a series of games oriented for kids, lore sadly isn't a point of interest.

While it's true that Rayman 2 feels like it takes place in a different world from the original game, and comes with a few inconsistencies in terms of lore, I don't think that was the case for Rayman 3, which follows nicely in the footsteps of its predecessor and certainly doesn't shit all over its lore like a seagull on laxatives (yes, Rayman Origins, I'm talking about you).

Heh that is a good point, Rayman 3 does seem to link fairly well to Rayman 2 (ironic given it's the only mainline title not developed under Montpellier or its predecessor xD)

To be fair to Origins, we know it was initially attempting to reconcile the lore of the series to work a bit better...until it very much didn't and then Legends didn't seem to care any more either

Needless to say the lore in the series is a mess and we're all a bunch of sad nerds who care wayyy too much about it looking at how much the developers seem to xD

[dr_st]

Three mosquitos eh? I have to admit, I never thought about that, but it kinda makes sense on some level Like you said, the other games make it clear that the world is full of them, so why not have more than one in Rayman 1 even if they're kinda boss creatures?

This theory sprang to my mind some time ago. It is possible that the developers were considering Moskito to be the main villain, while other mosquitoes are his minions. So the one in Anguish Lagoon and the one chasing you may have been different personas. That takes care of the "bad turns good turns bad" inconsistency.

BUT let me remind everyone that in the Jaguar version the mosquito who chases you is the same colour as the one you fight at the end of the level!

This version indeed is more supportive of the two mosquito theory.

[PluMGMK]

Heh that is a good point, Rayman 3 does seem to link fairly well to Rayman 2 (ironic given it's the only mainline title not developed under Montpellier or its predecessor xD)

I mean, the juxtaposition of those two facts is pretty revealing, isn't it? Michel kept wanting to do "new" things, but when he took a backseat, the team decided to create something a lot closer to what went before.

Needless to say the lore in the series is a mess and we're all a bunch of sad nerds who care wayyy too much about it looking at how much the developers seem to xD

Well, I'm pretty sure the Fakirs are based on people like us

(I previously noted that here:)

(Side note: I think it's a possibility that the Fakirs were created by artists working on the game to mock colleagues who objected to inconsistencies with the older games. I have no evidence for this, but as someone who prefers consistency myself, I can't help feeling that there is some pointed mockery involved in the concept of the Fakirs – it occurred to me during this conversation on the French forums.)

[Mortamon Saturn]

BUT let me remind everyone that in the Jaguar version the mosquito who chases you is the same colour as the one you fight at the end of the level!

It's pretty interesting how the Jaguar release seem to have gotten a few things more consistently than all the other versions, just like the ambiguity about Mr Dark's transformations/hybrids in the final boss with the Jaguar animations making it a bit more explicit, or Mr Dark showing up in the credits while "See you soon" is visible on screen in an attempt to tease a sequel (speaking of which, that "soon" sure took a lot of time... and it's not even in a main game )
By the way, I've just realized that by not featuring the Space Mama/mosquito hybrid in this version, they made it so each of the five main bosses are combined only once (Mr Stone + Skops, and then Bzzit/Moskito + Mr Sax + Space Mama).

Who knows, maybe Rayman 1 always had three distinct mosquitoes all along just like there are more of them in Rayman 2, 2D Madness and Origins.

Three mosquitos eh? I have to admit, I never thought about that, but it kinda makes sense on some level Like you said, the other games make it clear that the world is full of them, so why not have more than one in Rayman 1 even if they're kinda boss creatures?

And now that I think about it, if I'm overanalyzing this early picture of Rayman GBC correctly (sorry, I'll remain a sad Fakir nerd ), there's a possibility that mosquitoes could have been generic enemies in this game as the early sprite of the Flying Rings looked a bit like one, thus making them even more numerous...

...And I guess we're going off-topic instead of talking about the worst version of Rayman 2, but Rayman GBC had Rayman 2 music and some other things from it, so it still counts as something relevant to this topic!

[Master]

Heh that is a good point, Rayman 3 does seem to link fairly well to Rayman 2 (ironic given it's the only mainline title not developed under Montpellier or its predecessor xD)

I mean, the juxtaposition of those two facts is pretty revealing, isn't it? Michel kept wanting to do "new" things, but when he took a backseat, the team decided to create something a lot closer to what went before.

Quite so, that's kinda the underlying point I'm making, that it's clear that the series' main creatives were less occupied with trying to keep the story consistent than they were just experimenting and having a laugh. And I don't begrudge them for it either, even if they're not to my taste, the UbiArt games show a joyous and fun vibe that was very much reflected whenever we saw the Devs if memory serves. At the end of the day, if a fun experience is the end-goal, then hasn't the assignment been obeyed?

Needless to say the lore in the series is a mess and we're all a bunch of sad nerds who care wayyy too much about it looking at how much the developers seem to xD

Well, I'm pretty sure the Fakirs are based on people like us

(I previously noted that here:)

(Side note: I think it's a possibility that the Fakirs were created by artists working on the game to mock colleagues who objected to inconsistencies with the older games. I have no evidence for this, but as someone who prefers consistency myself, I can't help feeling that there is some pointed mockery involved in the concept of the Fakirs – it occurred to me during this conversation on the French forums.)

Hehehe, I like this idea, so long as it's borne from playfulness and isn't emblematic of some genuine tension.

[PluMGMK]

Well, given what we've heard about BG&E2's nightmarish development cycle, it's possible that there was indeed genuine tension

[Master]

Oh yeah, still is in dev hell too even now and there was a fair amount of drama a few years ago if memory serves. In fact wasn't the hell of BGE2s development what led to Rayman Origins being started, cause they wanted a break from it?

Either ways yeah, suddenly that little idea seems rather tragic...