Lums discussion.

[PrincessAmber]

Lums are definitely living beings, this has been proven by like you said, the wings and stuff. In Rayman 3 red lums even flutter around when you touch them, but I don't think that needs to be adressed.
Now I definitely love the idea of the pink lum you got there, although I originally thought it was gonna be too similair to purple lums, you've changed my mind. I'm writing this down in my little notebook for sure.

Pink Lums contain strange powers that reveal illusions in the world. These Lums allow you to find all kinds of secrets hidden that cannot be seen with just your eyes.

Super Pink Lums reveal everything that the eye cannot see. Otherwordly places can be discovered that Polokus dreamt of in secret.

Or somethng like that, I'm not too good with it.

So I would assume Rayman would touch one, then a hidden area or perhaps certain places could reveal up, depending on which one he touches, normal of super?
That would be great for backtracking in a game for example, you would need a certain power to a certain place. You go there after you get it, you find a type of pink lum and discover a new small terrain or a whole new world. I love it.

Could you possibly explain Spirit Lums more? I'm interested in hearing your idea.

Also I like to believe the bodies in Rayman are made up of lums and possibly a combination with thoughts of Polokus, but does he really control everything in Rayman's world? That has never actually been confirmed I just like to believe so. The Glade of Dreams for as far as I know, is the world of Rayman.
Whenever Rayman dies, atleast in 2, he turns into a sphere of energy. I like to think those are several lums, or maybe those ''Spirit Lums'' that you brought up. Or maybe it's just simple energy, since when he dies in 1, it's a bunch of Electoons.

Then again, if going by Rayman's body, he is not made by Polokus, but made up by lums, like they told us in Origins. Although I don't agree much with the worlds of Origins and Legends. I can definitely see Rayman being made up of Yellow Lums, and made by the fairies/nymphs when the world was in perill.

Concerning the Valley, I don't necessarily see it as the same thing as The Glade, but definitely a part of it. Maybe it is the same but because Mr Dark stole the Great Protoon (Heart of the World?) everything turned that way. The world seems to be changing whenever something happens to the main core, like in Rayman 2, everything becomes much darker, grimmer and more vile, such as dirty water for example. Maybe it was their intention of making Rayman 2 the grimmest out of the series, or maybe it was because The Heart of the World pretty much got shattered into 1000 Yellow Lums.

Dude, you can like, write me a novel on Rayman headcanon, and I'll read through it a 1000 times.

[Shrooblord]

Well, you must remember you're rolling off what is essentially part of my design process for my upcoming game (I'm actually getting quite ready to start publicising my progress in its very own topic - something which has taken three years of work to get round to ). So all the ideas I give you are basically my very own take on things and are possibly in no real way connected to the 'real' series.

However, if about that you do not care, I will tell you more.
Pink Lums in the game will hover by an area that has a hidden secret. Think destructible scenery, secret lever, unseen passage in a dark cave, etc.. Whenever you see a Pink Lum, it's probably in your best interest to start investigating it and its surroundings (that is, if you want to find and destroy all Cages, therefore unlocking the final boss of the game (yes it's rolling off good ol' Rayman 1 tactics there)). Collecting them has yet another purpose: they are currency for optional upgrades in a 'Teensie shop' (I'm trying to keep this as vague as I can at risk of spoiling too much in words).
Now Super Pink Lums, they're weird. They will literally make rocks sprout from the ground or change said ground into void beneath your feet. They are very shy, yet curious beings, that do not wish for anything to come near them - and so they warp reality around themselves to accomplish that.

But I like your more Knowledge-of-the-Worldly-like take on them.

Say 5 Lums make up a Super Lum; dozens of Lums make up one Spirit Lum, a sort of caterpillar of luminous bodies with a face, wings and two hands. They're basically like fairies, I guess (like 'faery', not like Ly). Each type of Spirit Lum has a unique ability that will help Rayman out in some way or other (or may be used against him by his foes). Then, they return to the Energy stream (they vanish after using their ability).

===

Now for Rayman - you raise a valid point I just remembered myself; Rayman turns into spheres of Energy when he dies in R2. But not just any spheres. He turns into three distinct colours: white, purple, yellow/orangey yellow. He turns the same yellow that Super Yellow Lums are. He turns the same purple that Purple Lums are. He turns white like a Silver Lum.
Was Rayman created using the power of Silver Lums from the fairies, one Purple Lum (which is why he can bond with other Purple Lums; he is in fact one himself) and a bunch of Yellow Lums (knowledge, power, passage through unknown realms (think Spiral Doors and the Hall of Doors))?

As for the Valley and the Glade, I have my very own take on that that I think you guys may enjoy. Later, though! But soon!

[PrincessAmber]

Upcoming game eh? What kind of game will it be exactly?
I have my take on the Rayman universe too like said above etc, but I like to mix it in with the things we already know. I wouldn't be able to make a game or something, but maybe one day make a short comic, if I get better at art in the future.

Yeah that's also what I thought of the Pink Lums, just couldn't get it into words at the time. I really like the way the Super Pink Lums warp reality and are shy, makes them feel a lot more alive, I'll write that down in my little book too, haha.

Your Spirit Lums sound really cool too, giving you certain powers to overcome obstacles, I like that. The whole them having caterpillar like bodies seems interesting too, making them look like old fashione faery's and stuff. Now that ''Energy Stream'' term sounds the most interesting. I can imagine the space-like liquid from The Hall of Doors being that actually, not sure if that is your intend.

The Energy Stream is the pool of all energy that has been used, the energy is stored and helps construct the Hall of Doors and make it stay stable.

Something like that, lol, just my take. I just love The Knowledge of the World.

I can see Rayman being made of those three certain lums definitely.
Purple: Since Purple Lums are for the cohesion of the world, maybe that's why Rayman is actually, well flippin' alive due to him being limbless?
Silver: Should be obvious since he gets his powers from the Silver Lums, like you said indeed.
Yellow: Well you got that just spot on, nothing to add.

I would love to hear your own theory on The Valley yo, don't let me wait

[Shrooblord]

The game itself is pretty much my ultimate tribute to what I love about Rayman. It's a project of inspiration drawn from primarily Rayman 2, because that, in the end, is the game that is most 'Rayman' to me out of all them. It also continues on from its story - I wouldn't necessarily say 'intended sequel' but rather 'continued story arc'.
More technically, it will be a platformer featuring all kinds of puzzles, battles, environmental vistas that should eventually make you go 'oooh' and 'ahhh'. Also lots of story. I am in heart a storyteller.

The Energy stream wasn't literally something I had a concept for. Deriving information from the Heart of the World, we know that everything in Rayman's universe is made of Energy. Focussed Energy becomes Lums, focussing Lums become life and the world around you. 'Returning to the Energy stream' was just my way of saying that the Lums would split apart and return to their purest, unphysical form - but hey, if that gave you inspiration for something neat, go ahead and use that!

And haha, no, I won't disclose more! Once my topic goes up (I'm basically waiting until I've finished my Mr. Dark theme and have textured and animated my Foutch a bit so I can show off the various aspects of what I'm working on), I'll see if I want to give that much away already from the beginning, or if I want to start making it 'spoiler-trickle'... you know it's fun reading up something you're interested in in bite-size parts, as opposed to getting a flood of information from the get-go.

[PrincessAmber]

Aww, I'll check it out when it's up then! Is it gonna be a 2D or 3D platformer, btw?
Also yeah I'm writing all this stuff down for that one comic possibly in the future, I'll be sure to notify everyone I got ideas from though, and credit them for sure!

Mr Dark's theme? fuck yes sir.

[Shrooblord]

Heehee if you want to listen to my most basic version of it, I have a recording here.

3D platformer, mostly à la Rayman 2, but darker. In fact, as the game progresses, it gets quite grim.

[PrincessAmber]

Well, I do love the dark element of Rayman 2, which is why it's my favorite game from the series, and just favorite game of all time. I look forward to hearing it.
Also that theme is pretty neado yo, very event like.

[Shrooblord]

Back on the Lums discussion, I was just revising my Thermodynamics when I came across this:

One important finding has been that all these energy forms can be converted into one another. (...) The energies can vary enormously in magnitude, chemical energies may exceed megajoules whereas radiation energy may be microjoules or less.

This lends itself for a very interesting theory concerning the Lums: if the Lums are Energy, and pose that all Energy may be converted into other forms of Energy just like in our own universe, then different Lums can become other types of Lums. It is what we see in Black Lums, that may be some form of Energy just as Yellow Lums are. It would be fitting if they were to represent our Dark Energy, but I won't go as far as to propose that.

However, given the Yellow Lums, this also makes me wonder: if all forms of Energy are interchangeable, why could not other types of Lums fill in the hole that the Pirates made when they bust the Heart of the World? What was it exactly that they did to disturb the Energy stream so much that no other process could reverse it and put back into balance the world on which Rayman lives? The Pirates truly, truly are a force of sheer evil.
But then again, probably we already knew this.

However, I do like the theory. It makes for the self-dubbed Energy stream to be not a collection of different types of Energy that form into different types of Lums, but rather a big, mixed-up Energy soup. In perfect balance, all components of the Energy are in harmony and this is, perhaps, what creates the lifeforms that Energy creates when it concentrates itself in the form of Lums in the right proportions. It does answer some of the questions I posed before. Neat!

[PluMGMK]

One important finding has been that all these energy forms can be converted into one another. (...) The energies can vary enormously in magnitude, chemical energies may exceed megajoules whereas radiation energy may be microjoules or less.

This lends itself for a very interesting theory concerning the Lums: if the Lums are Energy, and pose that all Energy may be converted into other forms of Energy just like in our own universe, then different Lums can become other types of Lums. It is what we see in Black Lums, that may be some form of Energy just as Yellow Lums are. It would be fitting if they were to represent our Dark Energy, but I won't go as far as to propose that.

Yes indeed, I thought that too, but I thought it would be redundant to post it. I already had that little description of how the Reflux fight shows several different energy conversions.

Also, I think perhaps the fairies might have been purposely keeping the Heart apart to prevent the Pirates from using it to get too powerful. (According to the Manual, Ly split the Heart herself, I believe, even though that contradicts what is said in-game.)

[Master]

I don't recall reading any lore that states that Ly split the heart, could you share the source?

[PluMGMK]

Umm, I think I still have my R2 CD with the PDF manual, let me get it…

EDIT: Uh, no. I must have misread that.
By the way, do you need those for the Wiki?

[Master]

A PDF manual, eh? It might be a useful resource to upload on the Wiki, let's take a look and move on.

[PluMGMK]

Yes indeed, I misread it. But I'll be glad to put these PDF manuals on the Wiki if they're needed.

[Shrooblord]

Also, I think perhaps the fairies might have been purposely keeping the Heart apart to prevent the Pirates from using it to get too powerful.

Hm, I like that theory. The Pirates would try to otherwise harness its power as a generator of some sorts. Now Yellow Lums, they're not too useful to the Pirates, it seems, so they just lock 'em up in Cages.

[PrincessAmber]

Well aren't the Yellow Lums pretty much THE Heart of the World, instead of making it up. It could be that The Heart just created Polokus, kinda like the big bang? This might sound silly but my brain isn't exactly on a 100% thinking mode now.

[Shrooblord]

No, I indeed do not quite follow. Here:

In the chaos, they exploded the Heart of the World. The 1000 Lums of Energy which form it have been scattered.

The Heart of the World is indeed made up out of 1000 Lums.

[PrincessAmber]

Well, fuck. But didn't you state earlier that they couldn't just use other energy for The Heart of the World apart from the Yellow Lums? It's like fitting a square in a circle box, kinda.
If I'm just completely reading wrong into this tell me, it's like 2 in the morning over here and I'm sleepy lol.

[PluMGMK]

Well actually you two live in the same country.

[PrincessAmber]

Whoa neat, I wonder where you live in Holland, Shroobie. But I'm still tired as hell since I woke up early, I'll continue tommorow.

[Shrooblord]

Yes, I did say that, but I don't see the problem, haha. There's 1000 Yellow Lums that made up the Heart of the World when it scattered in Rayman 2 - but that doesn't contradict that the other types of Lums might be able to transform into one another. What I was indeed wondering is that, if that were true, why Yellow Lums are the only ones that can't be transmuted...