Rayman Pirate-Community

sorry, i really dont

The worst thing about the backgrounds in the PC version is that the dark forest one is monochrome.

For some reason, in most levels the PS version uses a broader colour palette than the PC version.

syntheticgerbil wrote:Haha, hope you win!

I just did.

spiraldoor wrote:

syntheticgerbil wrote:Also both the Playstation version and PC version use the same resolution; 320x240.

I think you might have misunderstood me there; I was referring solely to the quality of the backgrounds, which from what I've seen is much better in the PS1 version. I had previously heard something about it being possible to play the PC version with the better backgrounds, but I was unsure of this until now.

Compare the backgrounds of the PC and PS1 versions:


I don't know if 'resolution' is the correct term, but the PS1 background looks better to me. Does turning on the PC version's parallax scroll option also improve the quality of the backgrounds themselves?

I see what you are saying, but I guess I don't understand what you mean by quality.

In terms of pixel size, all sprites on both of those are the same pixel size, same computer art, same everything. There is absolutely no resolution difference. If you have a layer style art program like Photoshop, try overlapping certain objects in the screenshots. They are the exact same amount of pixels. Neither has sprites comprised of a higher resolution than the other.

What IS different is the area of the screen, with the Playstation fitting 40 extra pixels on the top and bottom. I'm sure this map size also varies between region depending on whether you are playing a PAL or NTSC system. I would guess judging by the 240 height, the Playstation screenshot shown here is NTSC. A PAL screenshot would show an even larger map size. Often PAL comes with black bars because of lazy programmers not resizing from NTSC, but since Rayman is a French game developed in a PAL region, I would guess that was the initial screensize. Also the Playstation screenshot was taken from an emulator, as the pixels are 1:1 with no blur or screen garbage, just as the PC version. If you were playing the Playstation version at home, it could potentially look worse with a bunch of trash, if not connected with an S-Video cable which is the highest quality a Playstation game can output.

I still play Playstation 1 games myself and if you don't have a good cable and are using something as awful as a RF unit, you'll get all sorts of noticeable garbage on an HDTV screen around the edges of pixels. This was much less noticeable in the CRT display days. Older computer monitors ran through an RGB cable on a monitor, so you wouldn't deal with any of this. If you had an RGB hook-up on an HDTV, you could output Rayman playing in DOS on your HDTV as a monitor and the picture would be clearer than Rayman running from the same TV output from a Playstation with S-Video.

Alternatively, running Rayman from a PS3 on an HDMI cable would get you the sharpest quality screen, but the problem with that is the PS3 always stretches PS1 games somewhat no matter which of the three settings you pick.

Without knowing what makes you think the Playstation version looks better, I don't really know what the difference being held up here is. It just can't be resolution making a difference because the pixel width and height for the art in the actual game between versions is the same.

One thing that is true that makes the Playstation 1 version better is that for some reason, the intro and ending movies run at a higher frame rate than the PC version. Also the PAL version of Rayman on PSX has a higher resolution intro movie. This all has to do with how the video was encoded and for what region. It seems it wasn't encoded as well on the PC, or frames were sometimes doubled up for playback, causing it to look more jerky.

Hunchman801 wrote:For some reason, in most levels the PS version uses a broader colour palette than the PC version.

Where is your source for this? Besides maybe color changes on certain sprite objects, both of these versions appear to use 256 colors, a standard for the era. The DOS version wouldn't be using any less than 256 on a common VGA card form that era, because then it would be running at 16 colors, which it simply isn't. If anything, in the 32 bit era, the console version of a game was usually guilty of using less colors, which might explain some of the palette swaps. Even though the Playstation can run 16 million colors, not many games for the system actually uses this. There's also a limit on how many colors it can do on-screen at once. I would guess most games taking advantage of the 16 million colors are the realtime polygon games, for shading, rather than 2D art already predetermined to the very last pixel by those who drew it.

Just as much as games in 1995 for the PC could use 16 million colors, but it didn't become a standard until much later for many of the same processing power reasons.

What could be happening here that makes people prefer one version or the other is that even if both versions of the games are using 256 colors, whatever colors it actually uses depends on the graphics card. So in the 90s, between graphics cards, green may not be the same green on someone else's computer operating from a different graphics card. All DosBox versions for instance, emulate the same VGA card. The Playstation would display different colors greens, reds, and blues just as well. The way the game was ported for each system from the original source may have also been responsible for varying the colors.

Definitely the PC version screenshots I can find use more saturated colors than the Playstation version, but again, if you overlap the images of things in the background, you'll see both versions are still using the same amount of colors, because the shades and pixels still line up. If one version were using less colors than the other, you would start having patches of flat color, because the graphics processor wouldn't have enough different colors to use.

Alternatively, if one port of the same game had to be optimized to work on another with less colors available, dithering becomes noticeable in order to create the shades that wouldn't be there otherwise. I don't see any signs of dithering in Rayman for either PC and DOS. So I would say it's probably not a matter of less colors available, just a matter of what the colors look like.

I hope this all make sense from a technical standpoint. I will say the muted color tones for pinks and blues that the Playstation version outputs is more pleasing to look at, but these tones aren't so different on every object. I think it's really just a matter of preference.

syntheticgerbil wrote:Without knowing what makes you think the Playstation version looks better, I don't really know what the difference being held up here is. It just can't be resolution making a difference because the pixel width and height for the art in the actual game between versions is the same.

From my experience the backgrounds look quite a bit better in the PlayStation version. Apart from that, the two versions are aesthetically identical (as far as I know).

Here's a better comparison than the one I posted above:

PC version: PS1 version: PC version: PS1 version: I'm sorry I can't find any better images than these. I think some high-res screenshots comparing the same locations in both versions would be better, but I'm not in the position to produce them.

syntheticgerbil wrote:

Hunchman801 wrote:For some reason, in most levels the PS version uses a broader colour palette than the PC version.

Where is your source for this?

I assumed this based on the size of the many PNG files I have uploaded to the wiki. While almost all the snapshots from Dream Forest in the PC version are around 40 kilobytes in size, those from the PlayStation version are between 60 and 70 kilobytes. Those posted by Spiral are perfect examples. You probably know much better than I do that the dimensions of the image itself are negligible in this case, and that the size of the colour palette is the determining factor in that of the corresponding PNG file.

Even though the following worlds use a lot less colours, the same difference can be found.

However, I still prefer the PC version, and this mainly for the first level of Band Land.

spiraldoor wrote:

syntheticgerbil wrote:Without knowing what makes you think the Playstation version looks better, I don't really know what the difference being held up here is. It just can't be resolution making a difference because the pixel width and height for the art in the actual game between versions is the same.

From my experience the backgrounds look quite a bit better in the PlayStation version. Apart from that, the two versions are aesthetically identical (as far as I know).

Here's a better comparison than the one I posted above:

PC version:

forest.jpg

PS1 version:

JUNF1.png

PC version:

music.jpg

PS1 version:

MUSF4.png

I'm sorry I can't find any better images than these. I think some high-res screenshots comparing the same locations in both versions would be better, but I'm not in the position to produce them.

Ah, now I see what you mean. You are definitely right! I don't know why they changed the forest to be monochromatic, but the sky from Band Land confirms that the PC version is using less colors for whatever reason. Those patches of flat color without the smooth shade transitions like I mentioned would be seen in an earlier post, are definitely from a lack of color range.

So what levels are missing from the PSX version? I'm wondering if I may get rid of my original PC copy for a PSX one, because I prefer the smoother intro movies.

spiraldoor wrote:PC version:

forest.jpg

PS1 version:

JUNF1.png

This is the one about which I was talking.

Oh, and the PSX version does use 16 million colours, the box says so.

syntheticgerbil wrote:So what levels are missing from the PSX version? I'm wondering if I may get rid of my original PC copy for a PSX one, because I prefer the smoother intro movies.

The first level of Band Land is different in the PSX version from the PC version.

syntheticgerbil wrote:So what levels are missing from the PSX version? I'm wondering if I may get rid of my original PC copy for a PSX one, because I prefer the smoother intro movies.

Why would you "get rid" when you can "keep both"?

I have way too many games, I can't keep multiple versions just for the sake of it. I usually end up selling things I don't need anymore on Ebay.

The differences make them more than just two versions of the same game.

PluMGMK wrote:Oh, and the PSX version does use 16 million colours, the box says so.

I checked, it says 65,000, which is still a good amount displayed nonetheless, but does not mean that 65,000 can be displayed simultaneously. The Nintendo 64 could do 32,000 at once although it did have 16 mil color capability. In terms of hardware, the 64 couldn't be beat then, but of course it lacked the CD drive, so no Rayman until 2.

PluMGMK wrote:The first level of Band Land is different in the PSX version from the PC version.

Is there a gameplay video I can watch? Also since I haven't been paying attention, what about the Saturn version? Saturn was well known for handling 2D games better than Playstation but doing an awful job with early 3D games... Does the Saturn also use the high frame rate for the opening movie like the PSX? I have both systems, so I don't have a problem making a call either way. I notice the back of the Saturn box says it has the 65,000 colors boast as well.

PluMGMK wrote:The differences make them more than just two versions of the same game.

Haha, I know it's hard to explain how it works with me. I'm very orderly about the games I buy and versions especially because I'm starting to run out of room to store my games. For instance, with Rayman 2, I didn't see a point to keep my Dreamcast version, even though it had a few extra minigames and the Globox village was different from Revolution, since essentially all of the same levels were on the PS2 version as well as more. I did buy and keep the PSX version of Rayman 2 because it's so weird and different and because it has that BETA Rayman 2 at the end which is awesome.

I could go on and one about how I pick my versions of games. If you ever heard how I decided what to buy of the original Prince of Persia out of the 15-20 versions available you would think I was nuts.

syntheticgerbil wrote:Is there a gameplay video I can watch?

I'm pretty sure you could find it on YouTube or DailyMotion. Here's a screenshot:

syntheticgerbil wrote:

PluMGMK wrote:Oh, and the PSX version does use 16 million colours, the box says so.

I checked, it says 65,000, which is still a good amount displayed nonetheless, but does not mean that 65,000 can be displayed simultaneously.

Sorry, I knew it was something with 6.

syntheticgerbil wrote:So what levels are missing from the PSX version? I'm wondering if I may get rid of my original PC copy for a PSX one, because I prefer the smoother intro movies.

The first Band Land level is completely different, and the level right before you fight Moskito in Moskito's Nest lacks the giant tree trunks. Apart from this, there were no level removals that I'm aware of.

Two other things about the level before the Moskito fight:
The music is Rainforest 3 instead of the ambience.
There is a swinging plum instead of a swinging spike.

Not entirely relevant, but I found a cool video comparing the PS1 and Saturn versions:

PluMGMK wrote:

syntheticgerbil wrote:

PluMGMK wrote:Oh, and the PSX version does use 16 million colours, the box says so.

I checked, it says 65,000, which is still a good amount displayed nonetheless, but does not mean that 65,000 can be displayed simultaneously.

Sorry, I knew it was something with 6.

Oh wow, how weird! I didn't realize there is an extra villian too. I don't remember seeing that drum character anywhere else.

spiraldoor wrote:Not entirely relevant, but I found a cool video comparing the PS1 and Saturn versions:

And thank you for this! Wow, this is amazing, though.

It's like the PC version I've been playing all along has taken some elements from Saturn and some from Playstation, all at random. The animated menus and load screens the Saturn is lacking is in the PC version, while the intro animation the Playstation version doesn't have as well as the menu structure the Saturn has makes it into the PC version as well.

I guess I'll get the Playstation version, just because of the extra flair, but I do like the colors on the Saturn one better, more vibrant. That and I'll still keep Forever and Collector around either way because of the extra levels.

I think the backgrounds in Anguish Lagoon in the Saturn version are more suitable. In other levels, I think the PSX ones are better.