Rayman Pirate-Community

one thing i agree with, xenon, is that we'll probably never agree on anything regarding this.
also, the thing regarding multiple HoFs was obviously sarcasm. I just don't believe it's right to move everyone you don't like to another HoF.

before nullifying my "all or none" argument, I believe there is a huge misunderstanding when it comes to what a glitch is. I'd like to quote Sajiki on this - he nailed it perfectly:

Sajiki wrote:I dont think the people that show this particular "contra-glitching" attitude even have a remotely close idea of the magnitude of impact they have on the game. I see opinions from "glitches give you 800k points instantly" or "glitches are not the way the game is intended to play". This is both simply not true. as i said earlier (although nobody commented on that) glitches, unlike cheats, are obtainable solely with the use of game mechanics. they are as much in the game as every word and letter in a book is, to pick up sfn's comparison. Additionally they are hard to pull off and hard to use in the correct way to score. its simply wrong that ipg gives you an instant x2 on totl part 2 score. I imagine you still have to do normal routing and gameplay you would have to pull off without ipg as well.

take this into account, please. cheat engine is definitely not a game mechanic.
neither is turning the game off, strictly spoken, that is the mechanic of the console.

furthermore, regarding MGs cheat, i feel it is really in no way comparable to the ipg.
the way the game is intended to play, if you break it down to the basics, is that you're able to play a single part over and over again until you are satisfied with the result - then you can move on to the next part of the level (or any level, for that matter). in no way was it intended to play the same part over and over again in order to achieve infinite points through a single part. that is a huge difference in my opinion. with ipg, you still get only one shot at part 2. if you fail, you have to restart or live with the consequeces.

now, please don't respond with an argument á la "the game wasn't intended to be played with an infinite powerup". that is simply not a valid argument, as the game wasn't intended to be played with four hits on razoff, with an early access to the lockjaw in TOTL part 1, being able to take andre in FC part 3 in combo of a yellow gem. the list goes on. i believe we won't need to go into detail any further.

if you want to look for a solution for this circumstance, i believe the first step would be to find a generally accepted definition of what's a glitch, and what's a cheat. that seems to be a big debating point here.

in addition, considering the differentiation between global and local glitches: cosider, in a few years or so, we look for ipgs outside of TOTL. furthermore, imagine it happened in a part where no supercoper was available. by all definition, that would be a completely fine ipg, since it's local, right?

Well, I think it's no longer possible to govern the HOF with definitions and specific criteria. I think it hasn't been for some time, which explains why we have moderators. There is no clear-cut definition of what constitutes a glitch in the game, but at the same time, I'm sure that you could think of a hypothetical scenario in which an outrageous glitch was used, and that you would oppose the use of that glitch.

You're probably formulating a response to Sajiki's post as I am writing, but he's just provided a perfect example of a glitch so outrageous and so ridiculous that it simply cannot be used if we want to maintain a positive spirit in this community.

I'm not against all of the glitches in the game, but some of them really need to be discussed here before they are played and then uploaded to the HOF. It's not a personal attack on you as I have a great deal of respect for what you have brought to this game (and the same goes for the other German players) but I think on this occasion it was really wrong of you to conceal this glitch and privately upload the outcomes, despite the competition issues you raised.

Okay, now the next glitch comes up and the first reaction is to ban it. Have you taken even a minute to think about this glitch? Have you tried it out? Have you even considered what this glitch means? The answer is: essentially nothing. The glidewalk is huge for speedrunners but it is pretty much irrelevant for scoring purposes, as its uses are very limited and it takes way too long to move around in this mode to use the glidewalk within a combo. I tried to use it, in order to get the green gem in DOTK part 3 (on top of the tower) with the lockjaw but that was impossible. The best use for the glidewalk is to skip sections of the game, which is essential for speedrunners but irrelevant for scoring purposes because skipping parts always means skipping points.

I came here yesterday, for the first time in almost two years, to discuss the wonderful game that is R3. Now, I have to say, I'm really disappointed in RPC and its narrowmindedness. After years of stagnation, R3 has finally undergone a change and this is the way you react? You remind me of the Catholic Church after it was discovered that the Earth was not the center of the universe – trying to deny the truth and fit everything into your antiquated way of thinking (therefore your absurd separate HoF suggestion and essentially branding IPG-users as abnormal).

So to clear things up: your mindset is to willingly accept any glitch the game throws at us, in any form, and no matter what impact it has on the scoring of the game, even if it allows for new maximums with zero effort and thus renders the last eleven years of solution-writing and traditional development totally obsolete? That has been the question I've been asking for several posts now and nobody has challenged it directly.

The last part of my previous post wasn't about the glidewalking glitch, nor the IPG method (the IPG method doesn't even bother me that much). It was a general comment about glitches and secrecy, and the changing forum culture around here.

One more comment: to compare me to the Catholic Church is slightly extreme.

sfn42 wrote:I came here yesterday, for the first time in almost two years, to discuss the wonderful game that is R3. Now, I have to say, I'm really disappointed in RPC and its narrowmindedness.

And I am very disappointed in the way you are accusing an entire community of narrow-mindedness when you only disagree with a few of its members. As far as I know, no decision has been taken on the matter and we are considering it with the utmost care in the goal of reaching an optimal solution. In that regard, the above debate is particularly welcome as it helps us weigh the pros and cons of each (or every) side, and I'd be grateful if all participants could refrain themselves from indulging in personal attacks and focus on the subject instead.

DTUCC wrote:http://www.abload.de/img/20131214_131306adbgt.jpg

NOW I can say with 99% certainty that TOTL is finished.
That total score almost screams for me to play LS now, but Mountain Goat is right behind me, so I'm not sure if I'd rather play CF or LS. Either way, there still are a lot of points to be picked up.

It's an impressive score. Since you claim this is the maximum score I assume you have 99.999 points when the combo begins. And I assume the combo is 16.910 points. I also assume the maximum score is reached in part 2.

I don't know much about this IPG, but as I understand it, once it's triggered you can't go back to not wearing a Powersuit, you have to finish the part with it, or at least wait for the next cinematic. Is that correct?

If so, the combo should be divisible by 20 which 16.910 is not. So, what am I missing here?

sfn42 wrote:(therefore your absurd separate HoF suggestion and essentially branding IPG-users as abnormal).

So women are abominable because they don't use the men's bathroom? The purpose of my suggestion is to eliminate controversy And bias and place both on an equal, be separate level. If you have any reason to interpret it otherwise, then you're fabricating motives that aren't there.

My suggestion is that, and I don't have all the answers, as, like Xenon said, it is difficult to determine what constitutes as a glitch, which is why this is a debate, not a conquest operation.

sfn42 wrote:@Adsolution: I do not understand why you see my post as an attack on you. Did I ever accuse you of trying to further your standings in the HoF? I just provided a general reason why your idea cannot work. If my post came across as an insult, I apologize. That was never my intention. However, I find your response (telling me to "fuck-off") highly inappropriate for a staff member..

Welcome to the RPC, world's best gaming community!

But in all seriousness though, this is a rather deep discussion, more than a few things simply flew over my head, as my tech skills are limited and glitches aren't a specialty of mine by any means, but it was great none the less.

but in my opinion it would probably be waste to change the scoring, except putting a notice to tell the unaware that there are people bypassing the traditional system. I also have a question; AD mentioned that these glitches are rare, so I guess i'm asking how rare? Are we looking at varying percentages for different systems (including HD and updated PC versions). If the glitches are rare and stuff, would that many people really be able to expose the system?

albeit giving it my best effort, i'm still having a hard time trying to grasp the trouble that has been caused as a result of this discovery. sure, the concept of an infinite powerup might be frowned upon. however, given the communitys seemingly endless hibernation-like condition prior to these events, i would have expected a more positive outcome. needless to mention, i nevertheless support different opinions, but seriously considering an additional hof-category is, to my mind, downright ridiculous and a slap in the face. what irks me as well is the fact that apparently very few people have actually tried to play around with the ipb and thus come to a more profound evalutation.

Xenon wrote: even if it allows for new maximums with zero effort and thus renders the last eleven years of solution-writing and traditional development totally obsolete? That has been the question I've been asking for several posts now and nobody has challenged it directly.

with regards to your notion pertaining the radical erasure of the traditional approach, that's completely fine with me, particularly since the part has always been rather straightforward and didn't need to undergo many modifications in all the years. but would you care to enlighten on what exactly you're referring to when speaking of "zero work"? if you were to ask me, the 4 of us (sajiki, sfn, dtucc and me) have sufficiently demonstrated why this is not the case in part 2. i apologize if i failed to interpret your utterance the right way, but i get the impression that our efforts tend to be talked down and that all the time and work dedicated is barely acknowledged.

Mountain Goat wrote:but i get the impression that our efforts tend to be talked down and that all the time and work dedicated is barely acknowledged.

Not at all, has it not been said many-a-time throughout this conversation that your efforts, contributions and achievements are extraordinary, and that any hypothetical changes would not in any way be at the hindrance of continuing to demonstrate that?

Such a simple, obvious concern as some of these exploits not being entirely fair in the eyes of traditional players has been met with an abrasive amount of defence.

I'm not talking about the IPG specifically. I haven't been for a long time now.

Here's how the debate has gone so far:

Me: this method looks dodgy. We should debate its presence in the game and consider the way our HOF is run and the way we view glitches.
Opponents: the IPG is not a cheat but a glitch that per-exists in the game so we should be able to use it because we already use many glitches.
Me: I can think of certain hypothetical glitches that should be banished, can't you?
Opponents: it's a glitch just like the Razoff glitch. All glitches or no glitches.
Me: there should be limitations to glitches, and we already moderate the HOF.
Opponents: we worked very hard using the IPG and you should try it out.

Can you see how futile this discussion has become? People are so desperate to defend the TOTL improvements that they are ignoring the mammoth issue of how we deal with game-changing glitches.

For what it's worth, I can recognise the pro points for including the IPG. I'd personally rather not include it; I actually quite liked Adsolution's notion of logical glitches, which makes an awful lot of sense to me. But that's another argument.

I'm not going to continue posting in this thread until people address the issue of glitch-moderation, what they want the game to be, etc, instead of aggressively defending the use of IPG.

I think no glitch is logical potatoes if we are already using glitches i saw the video and this one doesn't look so different so we could forbid all glitches but can we check that? if not let's all use it

sfn42 wrote:I came here yesterday, for the first time in almost two years, to discuss the wonderful game that is R3. Now, I have to say, I'm really disappointed in RPC and its narrowmindedness. After years of stagnation, R3 has finally undergone a change and this is the way you react? You remind me of the Catholic Church after it was discovered that the Earth was not the center of the universe – trying to deny the truth and fit everything into your antiquated way of thinking (therefore your absurd separate HoF suggestion and essentially branding IPG-users as abnormal).

see potato some RPC members agree with you so why insult all of us?

Xenon wrote:Me: this method looks dodgy. We should debate its presence in the game and consider the way our HOF is run and the way we view glitches.
Opponents: the IPG is not a cheat but a glitch that per-exists in the game so we should be able to use it because we already use many glitches.
Me: I can think of certain hypothetical glitches that should be banished, can't you?
Opponents: it's a glitch just like the Razoff glitch. All glitches or no glitches.
Me: there should be limitations to glitches, and we already moderate the HOF.
Opponents: we worked very hard using the IPG and you should try it out.

You can count me in. Here are some points we need to sort out.

- The IPG is not merely "the next glitch", it's the first of a new kind of glitches. What if the glitch after that is a glitch that allows the combo counter to be permanently active? Should we allow that in HoF because it is pre-existent in the game?
- If we are to allow the IPG and still moderate the HoF we will have to ask everyone who enters a new maximum score to post video documentation. How else can we detect whether the score was reached through the IPG, the MG discovery, R3 HD or something else entirely?
- What is the extent of IPG and how does it affect the overall gameplay? That is, before we make any decisions about allowing IPG in HoF we need to know in which levels and parts they occur.
- Should we allow MG's discovery in HoF? I still haven't found out why the Germans make a distinction allowing one but not the other in their forum.
- There are a number of glitches and platforms where you have to work hard. All levels in R3 HD and using MG's discovery require hard work.
- We need to make some rules in using the HoF. Otherwise it's a free-for-all.

Xenon wrote:I'm not going to continue posting in this thread until people address the issue of glitch-moderation, what they want the game to be, etc, instead of aggressively defending the use of IPG.

please look at DTUCCs post at the beginning of this page. please re-read what sfn has said over the course of the last few pages. we have clearly stated we dont see any sense in a moderation of glitches because it is pointless because of how glitches can (or rather cannot) be defined. additionally we believe there are as of yet no glitches so huge that they should be moderated in any way.
I personally do agree with you that IF there will be a glitch discovered which will somehow make a whole level obsolete or gives you a ridiculous amount of score without any effort (i could imagine something like the snowboarding glitch) which would act like a cheat, we should consider banning it. I just dont understand how, after the discovery of such a minor thing which barely gives a few 10k points you come up with such an idea. you should rather be happy the stagnation in this game has come to an end and there are obviously more things to find.

and what the heck is "mountain goats discovery"..?

Sajiki wrote:what the heck is "mountain goats discovery"..?

It's a glitch that works on pc allowing you to replay parts and thus get loads of points.

May I ask, if you have triggered the IPG, how can you get back normal mode? Will you have to die, wait for the next cinematic, or what do you do?

Sajiki wrote:a few 10k

Ten thousand points is over 1% of the current theoretical maximum. 'A few' ten thousands of points puts that even higher. Given that first place and fourth place in the Hall of Fame reside within just over ten thousand points of eachother, I think it makes a pretty notable difference. This is just one of the most prominent point-gaining glitches currently, a part of a potential to-be series of absurd point-gaining glitches.

Adsolution wrote:

Sajiki wrote:a few 10k

Ten thousand points is over 1% of the current theoretical maximum. 'A few' ten thousands of points puts that even higher. Given that first place and fourth place in the Hall of Fame reside within just over ten thousand points of eachother, I think it makes a pretty notable difference. This is just one of the most prominent point-gaining glitches currently, a part of a potential to-be series of absurd point-gaining glitches.

i dont get why you cant give up on that subject sorry. there is no series of absurd point-gaining glitches. the top ten in the hof will eventually be in the same margin they are now with the new strats, just the maximum has reached a new height. you could also stop making it look that this would be the start of a new era where suddenly every random player with the knowledge of how to activate the glitch can reach 850k points with ease and as if the maximum will soon be more than one million. the discovery is merely more than a new scoring technique in a level which have been discovered countless times in the history of this game where you didnt start such a discussion.

BUT as dtucc has said before, it is in the nature of game that is excessively played that some things become obsolete when better strats are discovered. zelda ocarina of time has been speedran for more than 10 years now and the discovery of a new glitch this year has lead from a 1:30 run in any% to sub 20 minutes. so the any% world record would be something like our hall of fame right?
So, for old tricks, glitches and strats not to become obsolete, and for them to be able to be shown off, runners created several categories, in this case "any% with wrong warp glitch banned" and several more. this is not because anyone is reluctant or shameful to use them, but just to preserve variety and make the game more complex (which would be split hall of fames that you proposed). Perhaps this breathes some fresh air into this discussion. Though i want to add that were not speedrunning a game but were trying to beat the score record. thus as explained above the only limit the game gives us is the ending of a sequence - if we pass it the part is done and our score is set. we get acceptance in the community by showing off difficult combos and coming up with tricks that give huge amounts of points. that is exactly what the players did. remember: what juts happened is an event which has occured several times already. it is STILL my opinion that there is no reason to split the hall of fame as of yet. the recently discovered glitches dont alter the game as much as some of you depict it.

in my humble opinion, EVERY major sequence break, which means every trick, jump, glitch or whatever name you come up with, that is able to skip parts of the game either in level design or game scoring (skipping points on the way) has somehow to be treated the same. what is the difference between the turtle jump skips in FC and LOTLD, the jumps that let you get to upper levels of the part without the usage of globox drinking plum juice or the power cans lowering mushrooms or breaking doors, like you do several times in CLF and in TOTL part 1 or the superjump that you perform in SBTC part 1 and DOTK part 7 and.. lets say BOM part 3 where you skip an ENTIRE PART pointwise (you even swin in the swamp that is supposed to kill you past 3 mushrooms you normally had to lower with the vortex can) just to lower every hoodlums' health for the combo to work or the awesome combos in SBTC part 2 (i hope we all agree they are some of the most entertaining ones in the game) where you kill hoodlums you cant even see?

after xenons last post i finally see the problem between our communication, so let me repeat everything i said without relating it to the ipg. i will adress every single point you made, and in the end, i hope it will be clear why the ipg really IS just another glitch.

MandM81 wrote:It's an impressive score. Since you claim this is the maximum score I assume you have 99.999 points when the combo begins. And I assume the combo is 16.910 points. I also assume the maximum score is reached in part 2.

I don't know much about this IPG, but as I understand it, once it's triggered you can't go back to not wearing a Powersuit, you have to finish the part with it, or at least wait for the next cinematic. Is that correct?

If so, the combo should be divisible by 20 which 16.910 is not. So, what am I missing here?

most of your assumptions are correct. when the combo begins, however, i do not have 99.999 points. neither do we have 99.999 points in CF and LOTLD when the combo begins, do we?

MandM81 wrote:- The IPG is not merely "the next glitch", it's the first of a new kind of glitches. What if the glitch after that is a glitch that allows the combo counter to be permanently active? Should we allow that in HoF because it is pre-existent in the game?

while there is no need to adress this until a glitch of this magnitude has been found, i do understand the concern. this, again, gets into the argument, which glitches are merely tools for scoring more points, and which glitches don't work in favour of the spirit of this game.
for speedruns this is of course easy. with a point system as complicated as this, we need to make judgments for every glitch independently. so what's in the spirit of the game? in my opinion, that is every glitch that still requires skill, effort and routing to make improvements.

these criteria are the essential ones, think about it - those are the rules by which we worked for 10 years, even though nobody ever expressed them. these are the rules by which we judged cheat engines and MG's discovery (since you keep bringing them up) - those require neither skill, nor routing. for cheat engine, my point should be clear. MG's discovery neither requires skill, nor routing. i could go through the first part of each individual level, collecting every gem one by one without even making combos, and still easily get myself to 99.999 in each level by replaying the same level over and over again.take powersuits into account here, too, since it doesn't really take a genius to get at least a few points past 100k in each level. before the argument comes up, using a random combo to get over 100k simply isn't routing, at least not in a way that requires effort.
a glitch that makes the combo run out at will or not (i'll assume that's what Xenon meant, since a glitch that prevents the combo from running out at all would be essentially useless) falls in the same category as there is no skill or routing involved when you don't have to worry about the combo running out.

MandM81 wrote:- If we are to allow the IPG and still moderate the HoF we will have to ask everyone who enters a new maximum score to post video documentation. How else can we detect whether the score was reached through the IPG, the MG discovery, R3 HD or something else entirely?

to put it bluntly, since MG's discovery and the fact that R3 HD has access to the HoF codes we will NEVER be able to 100% tell if a score has been reached under generally accepted terms. keeping an ipg secret now that the method has been revealed isn't such a big deal imo, though - ipg will just be another thing to consider whenever someone reaches a new top score.

MandM81 wrote:- What is the extent of IPG and how does it affect the overall gameplay? That is, before we make any decisions about allowing IPG in HoF we need to know in which levels and parts they occur.

the ipg is limited to single levels. furthermore, the ipg is limited to single levels that have both a cutscene you can somehow trigger and still be able to move, as well as levels that have a powersuit. you can take most levels out the picture, some because there is no powersuit, most of them because the cutscenes are simply not suited to activate an ipg. unfortunately, at the moment, Cut seems to be missing. we haven't heard anything of him in a few days either. cut has an amazing understanding of programming and has in the past months been able to explain every single glitch in the game to us, even obscure things like the lums glitch and why it doesn't work on pc. i would like to leave the explanation of the impact this glitch has on the game to him.
i do want to repeat though: it's not that gamebreaking of a glitch for the reasons i stated above. of course, infinite supercoper is an amazing asset, but it just allows for more diverse routing, and possibilities we didn't even think of so far. most levels in which we have acces to a powersuit, we take about 90% of the gems with the x2 multiplier anyway, don't we?

MandM81 wrote:- There are a number of glitches and platforms where you have to work hard. All levels in R3 HD and using MG's discovery require hard work.

MG's discovery simply does not require hard work at all for reasons i stated above. R3 HD does indeed require hard work, but the missing 100k barrier is in no way comparable to the ipg or any glitch we have every found for that matter. apart from the lums bug, every glitch so far is available on every platform. when playing rayman 3 (non-HD), you're forced to work around the 100k barrier and so far, there is no way of working around that. i'm pretty sure there won't ever be.
before the argument arises, i firmly do not believe there is a use in arguing about that before it has been found. while i do realize people are instantly going to mob this statement, i have to say i do believe that rayman 3 with or without the barrier are two completely different games since it changes about 40 out of the 48 parts this game has.

MandM81 wrote:- We need to make some rules in using the HoF. Otherwise it's a free-for-all.

i have no idea what kinds of rules you are thinking about, but i'd like to hear what you have in mind.

MandM81 wrote:May I ask, if you have triggered the IPG, how can you get back normal mode? Will you have to die, wait for the next cinematic, or what do you do?

you have to either die or turn your game off, that is correct. furthermore, i appreciate the fact that you are testing the ipg at this point instead of just making judgements about something you haven't even explored to its fullest. look into it more, and you might realise that it's not really a different game you're playing.

i hope this answer pleases people more than my recent ones.

Hunchman801 wrote:

sfn42 wrote:I came here yesterday, for the first time in almost two years, to discuss the wonderful game that is R3. Now, I have to say, I'm really disappointed in RPC and its narrowmindedness.

And I am very disappointed in the way you are accusing an entire community of narrow-mindedness when you only disagree with a few of its members. As far as I know, no decision has been taken on the matter and we are considering it with the utmost care in the goal of reaching an optimal solution. In that regard, the above debate is particularly welcome as it helps us weigh the pros and cons of each (or every) side, and I'd be grateful if all participants could refrain themselves from indulging in personal attacks and focus on the subject instead.

Everyone has an invitation to contribute, but as I have said multiple times before that, I have yet to hear a response that is not governed by narrowmindedness or selfishness that was not coming from CC, Sajiki, Mountain Goat or myself (and now raymancool and dartofthedavros, who I want to give a lot of credit to, for trying to provide a fresh opinion). I'm not condemning RPC, but all I have heard from the people who regularly frequent this forum are whining about the IPG and arbitrary rules on how they believe the game should be played. Adsolution and MandM have made up ridiculous distinctions to justify the exclusion of certain glitches that they don't like. CC and I have shown these distinctions are absurd in much detail, yet they keep bringing up these same ridiculous distinctions.

@Xenon: I have refuted your imaginary-glitch argument multiple times, very early on in this discussion. I do not understand why you keep bringing it up. The only reason I can see is that you're actually not reading my posts and I really don't want to believe that. So I repeat the core of it for you: In R3, there is the possible and the impossible. We can only look at the possible because that is actually in the game and only that which exists can determine the way we play. Thinking about glitches that don't exist is therefore pointless, because they don't affect the game in any way, as they, logically, don't exist. Sure, I can make up all kinds of glitches that I want like a quadruple conversion for Master Kaag or a glitch that lets you extend the 100k-limit in some way, but they do not exist and therefore, do not affect the game, the scoring structure or the competition in any way. Your argument is therefore pointless, because it has no bearing on the actual game.

Adsolution wrote:So women are abominable because they don't use the men's bathroom? The purpose of my suggestion is to eliminate controversy And bias and place both on an equal, be separate level. If you have any reason to interpret it otherwise, then you're fabricating motives that aren't there.

Please stop. You're just embarrassing yourself at this point. If you can't see why your comparison is beyond ridiculous, I cannot help you.

Two more things:

First, I want to take all of you on a little mental experiment. Imagine the IPG was found in 2004, when Jona, christiaens or Block were the top players in the world. They discovered it and managed to maximize TOTL. It became part of canon from then on. However, the Razoff glitch hadn't been discovered. People were still playing TBOM in the 80k-regions. Then, on a day in September 2013, a player came and posted a screenshot of getting 100k in TBOM. Some more players came and followed that with similar scores. People were wondering, how they did that, where they got the additional ~9000-10000 points from. Then, in January 2014 someone posted a Youtube-video of someone getting three times the amount of points for Razoff. People were outraged. They claimed that this glitch broke the logic of the game because you couldn't get multiple points for anything. They argued that it gave an unfair advantage to some players. They argued that it totally changed the level structure, because suddenly, you had to play with a 100000-limit and TBOM and the emphasis shifted from trying to pick up every single point in the first 5 parts to triggering the glitch. They argued that it should be separated in the HoF or even banned from the HoF.

Take a minute to think about this scenario. Look into yourselves and ask yourselves how you would have reacted in that parallel world that discovered the glitches in this order. Then think about your reactions to the IPG. Take the time to really think about it. Don't write anything with regards to this scenario, just think about it.

Second, I have been wondering about the motives of some people here. Why are you posting here, why are you participating in this discussion? I don't want you to answer that question, but, once again, to think about. Take the time, be honest with yourself and think about it. I have thought about it and I have come to a satisfying answer for myself. Can you say the same thing for yourself? Do you even have a motive? Think about it.

This IPG glitch has broken the game, therefore any score on the HOF can be considered irrelevant. It's merely a joke now.