Rayman Pirate-Community

@ Cut: I'm aware that what I desribed is basically impossible. But MandM said that he had already managed to hit Razoff 5 times without him falling down, so I went with that. It's supposed to be a theoretical maximum, I won't ever claim that it's possible in practise.

What keeps you guys so motivated to keep scoring higher on Rayman 3? It is rather admirable; to have kept it going for so many years. Is it the community factor that encourages you to keep going? In the sense of competing with others and wanting to have the top spot. I see the appeal in that myself, because with my Rayman 3 score I at least wanted to hit a certain figure. But what you guys are doing are in a totally another league! Don't think wrong of me for saying this, but don't you ever get a tad bored of Rayman 3? It is an incredible game and one of my favourites, but I find if I played it for absolutely ages I would want a break from it for quite a while before I started playing again. But then again I suppose I didn't have the 'competition' to inspire me to carry on.

...

Maz wrote:I finished Part 4 with 66.037 points

That´s quite a good score you have. With the double glitch you would get 89000-90000 after part 5 and that should be enough to get 100899 in the end, so maybe you can try this score, but of course 99999 would be a very nice score, too.
And don´t forget, that you need XX099, XX299, ... or XX899 (+ some extra points) after part 5, otherwise you´ll have to lose -in worst case- 99 points in part 6.

Thank you also for the help, Maz and Cut.
Of course i don´t want to play in such a crazy way, i just wanted to know, how many points theoretically could be taken in this part, it doesn´t matter how difficult it is or how many luck it requires.

Cut wrote:5 hits without razoff falling down is practiaclly the same thing as 6 hits with razoff falling down, so this calculation is pretty much nonsense. Theoretically due to the technical circumstances you could pull 5 or 6 razoff-hits in part 5 too but the chance is practically 0% due to the brutally low chance of 4 hits and the fact that 5 is an odd number (if anyone want's an explanation on this then please ask, i'm not in the mood to do it now^^) so i wouldn't count on this either. When you're really experienced with the dungeon you can pull out 600-combos quite regulary with some 400-combos inbetween. The optimal ratio should be around 2:1 for 600 and 400 combos so you should calculate with ~2.500 points and 3 2/3 hits per combo. Maybe the wiki knows the exact HP of razoff.

Sorry, but i don´t get it completely:
Why should be 5 hits the same thing as 6 hits?
Why should be 3/4 hits better than 5 hits?
And why 600 and 400 combos and not only 600.

The Wiki "says", that razoff has 110HP, but how many HP takes the HMF?

MandM81 wrote:I would like nothing more than to talk about the game. But we do have a special situation at the moment regarding glitches, the HoF and an open forum. My current opponents use the IPG and I don't. Thus I have to come up with at least 12.500 points to balance out the effect of this glitch. My current opponents keep their discoveries private. It would jeopardize my position if I'm the only one making discoveries public. That being said, if we could all agree on playing without the IPG and if all fora were open for all, then I would be more than happy to share my discoveries. By the way, you're right about most of your assumptions.

Thanks MandM.
I understand, why you don´t want to say more at first, so i won´t ask you about your improvements any more (There is enough, what i have to improve, so that´s no problem for me).
I have actually no problem to play without the IPG, but i think, that it would be impossible, that all players would agree in that.

rolesfamily wrote:What keeps you guys so motivated to keep scoring higher on Rayman 3? It is rather admirable; to have kept it going for so many years. Is it the community factor that encourages you to keep going? In the sense of competing with others and wanting to have the top spot. I see the appeal in that myself, because with my Rayman 3 score I at least wanted to hit a certain figure. But what you guys are doing are in a totally another league! Don't think wrong of me for saying this, but don't you ever get a tad bored of Rayman 3? It is an incredible game and one of my favourites, but I find if I played it for absolutely ages I would want a break from it for quite a while before I started playing again. But then again I suppose I didn't have the 'competition' to inspire me to carry on.

I think, that in spite of the fact, that many players were playing this game for many years, it still brings new things and it´s still a great challenge. It´s funny to play and succeed in combos and there will still come new, so it won´t get boring so fast.

i really don't understand why the ipg discussion is coming up again rom your side, mandm. what's the point? we've been discussing it for weeks and we found an agreement. we finally found the solution that everyone seemed to be content with, RPC staff might already be working on it, and you start complaining again? why did you even agree the last time around?

i also don't understand how you're trying to compete with ipg users. it's not like you can compete with the 12k advantage forever. in fact, the only reason you're still first is because i have zero motivation to play the game right now.

the reason i say i don't care about the hof anymore is because it's lost virtually all conclusiveness with the advent of the ipg and its opponents. don't get me wrong, you guys are free to play the game however you want, i just don't care about a ranking that does not properly reflect the different paths players chose to take within the game. it was already bad enough with version differences but as of now the R3 HoF has lost all competetive value for me.

that's why i would find it most interesting if we all just released altogether. HoF ranking really isn't a factor to me anymore and i would be interested to see how you have done it. our CF and TOTL combos would just be as interesting to you i suppose and i'd love to see how far each one of us can go, hand in hand, not as opponents. maybe i'm just dreaming, though. whatever... i'm not getting rid of the IPG in the hof though, it was a compromise we all agreed on, why start arguing again?

MandM81 wrote:That being said, if we could all agree on playing without the IPG and if all fora were open for all, then I would be more than happy to share my discoveries.

it's really funny you're saying that when actually you are the one that started the trend with the FC combos and knocked me down for keeping combos secret myself.

1234 wrote:Sorry, but i don´t get it completely:
Why should be 5 hits the same thing as 6 hits?
Why should be 3/4 hits better than 5 hits?

Read my post again properly.

1234 wrote:And why 600 and 400 combos and not only 600.

Because part 6 is long and you rather want to do one less shot than messing up and make razoff falling down because you haven't been that accurate.

1234 wrote:The Wiki "says", that razoff has 110HP, but how many HP takes the HMF?

https://raymanpc.com/wiki/en/Resistance

As for the updates to the Hall of Fame, I will hopefully be able to look into the matter in August.

DTUCC wrote:i really don't understand why the ipg discussion is coming up again rom your side, mandm. what's the point? we've been discussing it for weeks and we found an agreement. we finally found the solution that everyone seemed to be content with, RPC staff might already be working on it, and you start complaining again? why did you even agree the last time around?

First of all, I was one of the architects behind the consensus and I will abide by it. Personally I would rather we didn’t include the LMGs into the HoF, but it was a compromise I made in order to break the deadlock and move on.

I mention the IPG in connection with my choice of not playing with the IPG. It is a fact that with the IPG allowed in the HoF, I have to come up with quite a lot of points elsewhere to be able to compete in the HoF.

If I may add, suggestions made on separating the HoF into a non-IPG an IPG version were aggressively and unanimously shouted down by the TSF. Thus you only wanted one HoF in which non-IPG and IPG scores alike should be entered.

That put me right into a disadvantage scoring-wise.

DTUCC wrote:... in fact, the only reason you're still first is because i have zero motivation to play the game right now.

That's perhaps the most arrogant statement one can find on the 282 pages in this topic.

I’ll try to give you some motivation. Let’s play for three weeks from now on and let’s see who has the best score by then. Are you up for that?

DTUCC wrote:the reason i say i don't care about the hof anymore is because it's lost virtually all conclusiveness with the advent of the ipg and its opponents. don't get me wrong, you guys are free to play the game however you want, i just don't care about a ranking that does not properly reflect the different paths players chose to take within the game. it was already bad enough with version differences but as of now the R3 HoF has lost all competetive value for me.

I’m not sure I understand this. I’m only 600 points in front of you, are you saying there’s no competitive value in that?

DTUCC wrote:that's why i would find it most interesting if we all just released altogether. HoF ranking really isn't a factor to me anymore and i would be interested to see how you have done it. our CF and TOTL combos would just be as interesting to you i suppose and i'd love to see how far each one of us can go, hand in hand, not as opponents. maybe i'm just dreaming, though. whatever... i'm not getting rid of the IPG in the hof though, it was a compromise we all agreed on, why start arguing again?

It’s a compromise I stand by.

DTUCC wrote:

MandM81 wrote:That being said, if we could all agree on playing without the IPG and if all fora were open for all, then I would be more than happy to share my discoveries.

it's really funny you're saying that when actually you are the one that started the trend with the FC combos and knocked me down for keeping combos secret myself.

Are you really pulling the FC card again? You know very well why this particular level was a special case. I have revealed everything before and after FC.
I held back info about FC for three reasons:

1. I made an improvement in the last room in part 4. If I had revealed that, you would have demanded the points from that improvement added to your score on the grounds of platform differences. I didn’t want to have that debate. It actually took me several months to get it right.
2. It was around the time of MGs discovery. I was worried if I released info about improvements in FC, this trick could be used by cheaters to mimic my score and refer to the released info on how they reached this score.
3. A certain player at the time released made-up combos and wrote weird messages in the scoring topic. Since his platform was PC I was concerned he would use the MG discovery.

But looking forward, remember you’re invited to investigate CF openly. So far I haven’t noticed any interest from you.

If I may add, suggestions made on separating the HoF into a non-IPG an IPG version were aggressively and unanimously shouted down by the TSF. Thus you only wanted one HoF in which non-IPG and IPG scores alike should be entered.

i still stand by my opinion about two different HoFs, but really, what's the difference between two HoFs and the IPG-column we agreed on? i don't think there's any, but i suppose we just have different points of view on that.

That's perhaps the most arrogant statement one can find on the 282 pages in this topic.

I’ll try to give you some motivation. Let’s play for three weeks from now on and let’s see who has the best score by then. Are you up for that?

you totally misunderstood what i said there. the message clearly wasn't that i see myself as the superior player or anything like that, i just find it pretty obvious that you won't be able to compete with a 12k advantage forever. just about a year ago, edges boiled down to not even 1k points, it's gonna get back there eventually. there's no telling how long it's going to take, but it is going to happen, and that's when the 12k points are just too much to compromise.

i'm not up for that kind of challenge. if i feel like playing the game, i will and i'm curious as to see how far i can get (and how far you can get as well). you do realise i have 7k points left in CF, right? it's not the hardest 7k points either.

I’m not sure I understand this. I’m only 600 points in front of you, are you saying there’s no competitive value in that?

as i stated above, i care about the long term development the hof is going to go through. edges are going to be way smaller someday.

Are you really pulling the FC card again? You know very well why this particular level was a special case. I have revealed everything before and after FC.
I held back info about FC for three reasons: [...]

and i fully understand yoiur reasing behind that, but those are all points that aren't valid anymore today. me demanding more points is a thing from the past. so is MGs discovery as well as the other occurences.

i just don't understand. you seem to be willing to discuss CF openly without a second thought. i bet it's the same in regards to TOTL. why not FC though? i just don't see your reasoning behind it.
and why is it such a big deal when i decide to hold back things as well? that's basically the misunderstanding that's fueling all arguments since 6 years ago or however long it was. maybe that's our main difference that we need to put aside first in order to move on.

DTUCC wrote:

That's perhaps the most arrogant statement one can find on the 282 pages in this topic.

you totally misunderstood what i said there. the message clearly wasn't that i see myself as the superior player or anything like that, i just find it pretty obvious that you won't be able to compete with a 12k advantage forever. just about a year ago, edges boiled down to not even 1k points, it's gonna get back there eventually. there's no telling how long it's going to take, but it is going to happen, and that's when the 12k points are just too much to compromise.

Ok I misunderstood, we’ll let it rest.

DTUCC wrote:i'm not up for that kind of challenge. if i feel like playing the game, i will and i'm curious as to see how far i can get (and how far you can get as well). you do realise i have 7k points left in CF, right? it's not the hardest 7k points either.

I have some points waiting as well. Let’s see where we land.

DTUCC wrote:and i fully understand yoiur reasing behind that, but those are all points that aren't valid anymore today. me demanding more points is a thing from the past. so is MGs discovery as well as the other occurences.
i just don't understand. you seem to be willing to discuss CF openly without a second thought. i bet it's the same in regards to TOTL. why not FC though? i just don't see your reasoning behind it.

I know the three reasons I mentioned are all rooted in events about five years ago. If you remember I have actually subsequently given info on where to find the points in FC. There are two places I score better than you, and those places are:

1. I get the Matuvu for 1.250 points in combo in part 2, and my score after part 2 is 4.000+ points.
2. I get everything, except for the first Crab, with a Powerup in part 4 the last room.

There you are, my “secrets” in FC on a silver platter. Was it really worth shutting down the TSF for outsiders over that?

DTUCC wrote:and why is it such a big deal when i decide to hold back things as well? that's basically the misunderstanding that's fueling all arguments since 6 years ago or however long it was. maybe that's our main difference that we need to put aside first in order to move on.

I have thus revealed my secrets in FC and the score after part 2. Will you reveal your score in TOTL after part 1?

CF is fun to go through since we have to come up with many new combos. Maybe a joint effort could bring out some unforeseen improvements?

The combos in FC are all but a few documented through videos. No reason for a full scaled investigation. We play 90 % the same combos.

As for TOTL, I’m not suggesting a thorough investigation, mainly because I don’t play the IPG. Part 1 could be fun though.

I'm also very intrigued about these additional points. It's like you've just magic'd them up, like a magician pulling a rabbit from a hat. How come twelve thousand points have suddenly come up for grabs?(!)

1234, are you still testing that glitch in TBOM?

MandM81 wrote:I know the three reasons I mentioned are all rooted in events about five years ago. If you remember I have actually subsequently given info on where to find the points in FC. There are two places I score better than you, and those places are:

1. I get the Matuvu for 1.250 points in combo in part 2, and my score after part 2 is 4.000+ points.
2. I get everything, except for the first Crab, with a Powerup in part 4 the last room.

There you are, my “secrets” in FC on a silver platter. Was it really worth shutting down the TSF for outsiders over that?

We already have figured out these combos long time ago, it's not about the information/combos itself but rather the attitude of keeping the little secrets to myself which was introduced by you due to the past arguments and it put both sides (I don't really like this rivalvry aka "we" and "they") way further apart than necessary. One could call that a bullheaded insistence on principles but you also have to see the value of these combos in their historical context since this (how many is it? ~1k points?) was f*cking huge these days but not worth mentioning today. Since we now got rid of this plumb vest which was complicating a consensus for many years we can make things change and with things I absolutely mean: attitudes. And to make a change in attitude believable and authentic it was totally necessary to wipe out these annoying FC-"secrets". Anything else wouldn't have been consequent.

MandM81 wrote:CF is fun to go through since we have to come up with many new combos. Maybe a joint effort could bring out some unforeseen improvements?

Maybe? Dead Certain!

Xenon: Well, I am a magic man, didn't you know that?

Seriously, I didn't just conjure up 12k points. I made a series of smaller improvements but waited to enter the score into the HoF until I had enough points.

The improvements came from some projects I had discarded earlier as being impossible. Recent events made me look into those projects again and I actually made some work out. When you have settled down in your new place and bought a new controller, I'll point you in the right direction.

Cut wrote:We already have figured out these combos long time ago…

Well, why do you keep asking for them? I remember not long ago you asked for my score after part 2. What was that about if you already know about it?

Cut wrote:it's not about the information/combos itself but rather the attitude…

Are you trying to teach me about attitude and how to behave in a socially acceptable way? Isn’t that the pot calling the kettle black?

I’m having trouble with your attitude as well. You are members of this forum and have enjoyed the privilege of the open sharing of ideas, combos and videos in the walkthroughs. Without those, you wouldn’t be where you are today in HoF.

I have to date not seen any ideas from you released in RPC. You have never committed a selfless act by releasing whole new ideas that could benefit players in RPC. You made improvements in TOTL, but instead of releasing a video walkthrough in RPC, like the ones you can find on the first page in this thread, you chose to password protect your discoveries from members of the RPC. You have subsequently made several demands on how HoF should be governed and you have made several personal attacks on other members of RPC during the IPG debates.

I suggest a more humble and respectful attitude in the future.

However, if you are ready for a change in attitude and for working together on the CF project I’ll be more than happy to let bygones be bygones and look forward.

MandM81 wrote:Are you trying to teach me about attitude and how to behave in a socially acceptable way? Isn’t that the pot calling the kettle black?

I'm not interested in teaching you anything.

MandM81 wrote:I’m having trouble with your attitude as well. You are members of this forum and have enjoyed the privilege of the open sharing of ideas, combos and videos in the walkthroughs. Without those, you wouldn’t be where you are today in HoF.

I have to date not seen any ideas from you released in RPC. You have never committed a selfless act by releasing a whole new idea that could benefit players in RPC. On the contrary, you have made several demands on how HoF should be governed and you have made several personal attacks on other members of RPC during the debates.

We'll be even when we have reached the point where we are going to make our findings public.

Cut wrote:We'll be even when we have reached the point where we are going to make our findings public.

I'm not even sure what you mean by this. But an act is selfless when you do it for the benefit of the community without demanding something in return and without setting up conditions.

Hunchman801 wrote:https://raymanpc.com/wiki/en/Resistance

Thanks Hunchman801.

Xenon wrote:1234, are you still testing that glitch in TBOM?

Yes. Since i missed the ladder just by a very small distance, i want to try this until i will succeed. I´m also quite interested, how the part 3 will look and what will happen after trying to finish the part again. But, because rolling on a mushroom is not really a great fun, i´m playing this only occasionally, so it´ll take me still some time, but if i´ll succeed, i will let you know.

MandM81 wrote:1. I get the Matuvu for 1.250 points in combo in part 2, and my score after part 2 is 4.000+ points.
2. I get everything, except for the first Crab, with a Powerup in part 4 the last room.

I never thought, that someone would ever succeed at least in one of these combos, but you did even both.
Maybe you are really a "magic man"!

rolesfamily wrote:What keeps you guys so motivated to keep scoring higher on Rayman 3? It is rather admirable; to have kept it going for so many years. Is it the community factor that encourages you to keep going? In the sense of competing with others and wanting to have the top spot. I see the appeal in that myself, because with my Rayman 3 score I at least wanted to hit a certain figure. But what you guys are doing are in a totally another league! Don't think wrong of me for saying this, but don't you ever get a tad bored of Rayman 3? It is an incredible game and one of my favourites, but I find if I played it for absolutely ages I would want a break from it for quite a while before I started playing again. But then again I suppose I didn't have the 'competition' to inspire me to carry on.

It’s difficult to answer in one sentence. I’ve been playing R3 since 2005. I remember, after getting the grasp of the combo system and looking at the rankings at RaymanZone, my first target was to reach 600k points. Back then I had no ambition on climbing any further up the list. But later I returned to the game and decided to reach 650k points. And so it went on until I finally passed the 800k barrier.

So the first two-three years I found a lot of motivation in the rankings. By the time I passed 800k I was one of only a limited number of players actively trying to improve scores. By reaching 800k, I had developed sufficient skills to dig deeper into the game. My focus changed from looking at rankings to making new discoveries. It was around the time I made most of the walkthroughs on page 1, so the community factor played an important part in my motivation as well.

I have taken long breaks from R3 but always returned to try out new ideas I may have thought out during these breaks. The longest break for me has been after I reached 858k points. I always thought there would be more points in the game, but I couldn’t quite figure out where to look.
The IPG discussions and the series of arguments we have been through refuelled my motivation to take another look at the game. Now I’m back in a discovery mode, trying to see how far I can push the non-IPG way of playing.

Bored with R3? Hell no, how can one be tired of a game where you after ten years of playing still can find major improvements? That’s what makes R3 a very special game indeed.

1234 wrote:

MandM81 wrote:1. I get the Matuvu for 1.250 points in combo in part 2, and my score after part 2 is 4.000+ points.
2. I get everything, except for the first Crab, with a Powerup in part 4 the last room.

I never thought, that someone would ever succeed at least in one of these combos, but you did even both.
Maybe you are really a "magic man"!

Yeah, those two combos are the proudest moments in my R3 career. Each of them took me months to perfect.

Magic? Naah, creativity and persistence will do the trick.

Ugh Mand why do you have MY rank!??!

Haha just kidding buddy.

At least people are gonna potentially mix us up. Then they'll think I'm the number 1 player of Rayman 3 in the world!

rolesfamily wrote:Ugh Mand why do you have MY rank!??!

It must be a glitch

MandM81 wrote:CF is fun to go through since we have to come up with many new combos. Maybe a joint effort could bring out some unforeseen improvements?

i'm sorry but i don't like the idea of revealing one level completely while keeping the rest a secret. it's all or nothing for me, if we can't agree with that let's continue as it is right now. at least we tried to find a way, i suppose.

i'll be looking into CF soon, i hope. atm i'm busy with school (finals next wednesday) as well as round one of a tournament i'm in on the weekend after the finals. i'll see what i can do afterwards (or not).