Rayman Pirate-Community

The teamwork in the past couple of weeks was amazing.

One question to you MandM. What do you prefer? A community working together regardless of personal preferences in playstyle? Or having an advantage in knowledge?

Because you can't have both.

Xenon wrote:Based on the posts made on this page, would it not be an idea for the ipg players (who don't seem to care for their positions on the leaderboard) to stop uploading scores to the Hof? Nothing against you guys of course, but if you really don't care, it would probably create a more harmonious atmosphere around here, non?

It wouldn't make a difference because this is not about the HoF. It was only MandM who for some reason brought that into the discussion.

sfn42 wrote:

Xenon wrote:Based on the posts made on this page, would it not be an idea for the ipg players (who don't seem to care for their positions on the leaderboard) to stop uploading scores to the Hof? Nothing against you guys of course, but if you really don't care, it would probably create a more harmonious atmosphere around here, non?

It wouldn't make a difference because this is not about the HoF. It was only MandM who for some reason brought that into the discussion.

I assumed from a previous post you were ready to talk and since you're all in a community spirit ready to cooperate, maybe we could finally settle an unfinished issue about the HoF.

The HoF has historically and also partly at present been an excellent tool for ranking players according to skills like dexterity, perseverance and ingenuity. And since all players historically followed the same rules, the rankings were fair. That provided the motivation to do better if the one above you were a few points ahead.

The increasing occurrence of IPGs in the game completely destroys the idea of rankings since the same ranking can't be applied to different rules with a hugely different outcome. Using different rules like IPG and non - IPG in the same ranking can lead to bizarre situations where a low ranking non - IPG player actually come out on top in dexterity, perserverance and ingenuity but will find himself or herself far behind a group of IPG players topping the ranking. That is an unfair ranking and it doesn't reflect skills at all, neither does it do any good as a motivator.

As I understand sfn and CC have both declared they don't give a shit about the HoF. If other members of the TSF feel the same, may I suggest the following:

The IPG players list non - IPG scores in HoF like the rest of us and the IPG scores can be listed seperately in the scores topic. That would seem to benefit all as things stand.

sfn: Just an observation. Each time you come here to this forum one of the first things you do is to attack me personally and try to create a disharmony between me and other players. There is no end to what I'm guilty of according to you. Can't we just let it rest and talk civilized in the future?

Cut: I'll be more than happy to work together. And the last two weeks were great in that respect. But why then insist on having a 20k or more points advantage in HoF over the players you cooperate with? I'm not gonna trail 20k behind you in the HoF merely due to an IPG. You are not a 20k points more skilled player than 1234, Maz or me. I think it's you who want it both ways.

~ i'll remove this message because cut's is so much better.

MandM, do you know what the problem is? It's not about fairness. If it had been about fairness, you would have told Maz and 1234 what you improved. Or sfn, what about him? He never used the IPG. It doesn't make any sense. You want to keep you knowledge only for yourself and after you're done with everything you want to reveal it for everybody? I can see many things in that but nothing is even close to being "Fairness for non-IPG-players". And indeed, I'm not 20k points better than Maz or 1234, although "better" is a completely misleading term in this context. I have more points, that's no big deal.

What you want is to be the big man, you want to be the guy who broke 900k, you want to retire in glory. And you know what? That's ok. I'm fine with that. I mean, you're an adult person and you can do what you want, you have found so many things, achieved so many scores and honestly: your retirement would be a loss for the Rayman 3 community. A loss of a super skilled player. But you know what stinks? That you can't admit that exactly that is what you want. That you use Maz and 1234 as a shield to protect your intetions. That's pathetic. You are better than that and both Maz and 1234 have deserved something better than that. When you tell me, that you want to be the big guy and you will reveal everything after you retired since you then won't play Rayman 3 ever again and don't give a shit anymore, that would be ok to me. Absolutely. But don't come with this fairness-argument, that's a lie. An arrant lie.

EDIT: I have to take this partly back, please read my next post before answering that. Thanks

You should finally realise that all Maz, 1234 and you MandM VOLUNTARILY refused to use the IPG. Of course, we found platform-differences which could have become a problem but all of you guys made your decision before we found out about that. I just don't get it why someone should give you credit for not using something? You voluntarily decided to do that and you have to live with the consequences that you lose some points on some levels by not using the IPG. That's everyones free decision. I respect that. But I don't respect your way of pretending you deserve your own ranking for your VOLUNTARY decision. You just don't. When a Formula 1 Racer decides to just not use KERS (some kind of turbo-technology which was introduced 2009) because he thinks it's too much of a change for him and he want's to continue racing the classic way, he's free to do it and everybody's gonna respect that. But he has to accept that his decision will result in him being slower than other racers. That's how it is.

MandM, you think you would bow out in style when you are the first player who breaks 900k without the IPG. That may be true for yourself. But how do you want to be rememberd by everybody else?


Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas from me as well!

I've read through all the posts on this topic, so I know about the discussions which occured after the IPG was made public. But before going into detail, I want to thank Cut; not to be offensive, but considering your past posts, I was pleasently surprised by the maturity and politeness of your statement. Now, you guys probably won't give a damn about my opinion, but if I can make you read that, and get you to think about it, it's worth it.

As said above, I've read all the posts on the discussion about the IPG. Let's be honest, bad things have been said on either side... but as we can see, we were able to put our differences aside, turn this topic back into one where we could freely share discoveries, and we even managed to work together. Now it seems as if history is repeating itself. It has taken months to rebuild the trust in each other (at least from my point of view, there was such a thing), and I am not in any mood to see that destroyed again. How about you stop the public brawl, and use PMs, so that we can actually use this topic to discuss the Scoring issue?

@sfn: MandM has said that "everything will be revealed soon". Making comments about secrecy now is downright provocative and, in my eyes, completely unnecessary. I understand your curiousity - after all, I'm interested in where the improvements were made as well - but those 22k Points of advantage have been there for weeks. Why push the matter now that he's said that?
Just look at you guys: you kept your Combos in TOTL and CF a secret for months. Now everything is revealed, and all is well. I'm sure that MandM will keep his promise and explain everything soon, too. So, what is your objective on the matter? Do you want him to reveal everything even sooner?
Also, you keep saying that all you want is to get as many Points as possible. Then why not try to find those Points yourself? Lack of time? Come on, we're all adults, and all of us have that same problem; the same goes for MandM.

@MandM: I told you before that I understand why you would want to keep your discoveries a secret for the time being, and that still holds true. Nevertheless, you are keeping those secrets to yourself. It's really no different from what the TSF-Guys (sorry for using that term, it's not meant to come out bad) did in the past. They had discovered ways to get extra Points, and, for certain reasons, kept their discoveries to themselves. I personally don't care whether or not someone wants to share his findings, but in all fairness, you're not really in any position to lecture other people about secrets either.
And while I found sfn's post to be provocative, I am honestly a bit disappointed to see you take the bait so easily... if you think that no good comes from exchanges between you and him, why bother?

@Cut: I don't know whether 1234 and MandM actually communicated via PM, but I should have told you that I explicitly told him not to give me any concrete information, because I wanted to first try and do as much as I can by myself. I appreciate your concern for me, but in MandM's defense, he's not using anyone as a shield.

And just for the record, I never had a problem with anyone else using IPGs. I'm not a fan of it, but I won't give a damn if someone else decides to incorperate it into his game. In fact, MandM could start using the IPG tomorrow, and I would be fine with it.

Also, this is not intended to be offensive to anyone. I just tried to state everything from as objective a point of view as possible.

Final comment on this matter. I hope we can move on now, and actually focus on what this topic was created for, thank you very much.

Maz wrote:Now, you guys probably won't give a damn about my opinion

That's not true at all

Maz wrote:Let's be honest, bad things have been said on either side...

That's a true point. We started to keep big improvements secret and learned that this is the worst way to deal with, well... secrecy. You can't fight fire with fire. We all know that now and I apologize for that. But that's the main reason why I'm so upset about MandM's secrecy, although he announced to release it at some point:

Disappointment.

MandM kept secrets, I kept secrets, DTUCC kept secrets, sfn kept secrets and well... even Jona kept secrets. 10 years ago. We reached the point where we learned how terrible secrecy is, I never experienced a community where someone even came close to the idea of keeping something secret, even in a competitive game. I'm disappointed that MandM did not come to the same conclusion. I don't know if 1981 is just a random number or your birth date but if it is, then I am really disappointed by a 33 year old man, that he can't learn from mistakes the same way other people who are probably even younger than you. Yes MandM, back in October 2013 you said that there is no secret in FC left and there is no justification for our secrecy. The point is, there WAS a secret. Secrecy was established as a legit competitive method to keep opponents away. And we guys thought that this is justification enough for or secrecy. But we were proven wrong, the trust between the community-members came back when we started to reveal our stuff. And that's why you can't have both advantage in knowledge and a trustily community. When you read my question, you thought the operative word was advantage. But it was not. It was knowledge.

Maz wrote:I'm sure that MandM will keep his promise and explain everything soon, too. So, what is your objective on the matter?

You have to know that something similar happend in FC 4 years ago. I don't wan't to go in detail here since I may have got things wrong and don't want to tell things that are not true, but let's keep it at this: there is a reason why sfn as absolutely no trust in MandM. Although I totally agree, his post is provocative.

Maz wrote:I don't know whether 1234 and MandM actually communicated via PM, but I should have told you that I explicitly told him not to give me any concrete information, because I wanted to first try and do as much as I can by myself. I appreciate your concern for me, but in MandM's defense, he's not using anyone as a shield.

Good to know, then I will take this offense partly back. He still talks in your name as he speaks of the Non-IPG-players and I don't know if he has the general willingness to tell either you or 1234 about his improvement so I at least want to hear an answer to that.

Maz wrote: And just for the record, I never had a problem with anyone else using IPGs. I'm not a fan of it, but I won't give a damn if someone else decides to incorperate it into his game. In fact, MandM could start using the IPG tomorrow, and I would be fine with it.

I'm glad that we went past the point where using the IPG was actually a problem to people.

@Maz: I fully agree that my posts were provocative. That was my intention because it is the only way to change things here. Fake pleasantries have only made things worse in the past. The reason why I answered now is his justification in which he completely misconstrued, almost bastardized the concept of "friendly competition", in a way that nearly caused me physical pain.

I don't know how far back you've read in this thread, but in 2009 we had a huge argument about secrecy, focusing on FC in particular. That argument changed nothing. The community was pretty much dead for months after it and even after that, nothing really changed. MandM still kept certain combos secret, some of which haven't been revealed to this day (even though we think we figured most of it out). Over the following years (2011-2013) MandM has stated repeatedly that he would reveal the combos by updating his solution. He hasn't done so till this day. Therefore, I just don't believe a word he says about revealing his secrets soon. I mean, he has even taken it one step further by refusing to post his level scores.

You also asked what's preventing me from looking for that myself: I see zero sense in looking for things other people have found before me. That's a complete waste of time. It's as if scientists did the same experiments over and over again, getting the same results over and over again. Others might enjoy this way of playing, but I don't and if this is the dominant way of playing in the community (as it was around 2009), I will leave the game again (as I did back then) because I don't want to waste my time. I may not be a big loss because I haven't been able to contribute too much recently, but based on the comments by Cut and CC, they share my sentiments to a degree and if all of us leave, then it sure would hurt the community and the development of Rayman 3.

Also, Cut mentioned an important point. We've all made mistakes regarding secrecy in the past, in 2009 and last year, but these mistakes helped us realise how bad secrecy can be and what it does to the community (creating either constant arguments like last year or a climate of distrust hidden behind fake pleasantries). We're trying to move on from them, in order to make cooperation the basic principle of this community. Yet, Mandm seems not to have learned anything from these incidents. He keeps repeating the same platitudes that he has been using for over 5 years and when someone criticizes him for it, he reacts in the same way as he always did, by stylizing himself as the victim of "personal attacks". My ideal is a community where we can all meet as equals but I don't see any willingness to do that from MandM right now.

Merry Christmas to all. I hope we can resolve these issues.

Just wanted to post some stuff about LOTLD3. I have tested a lot of other things as well, but somehow, my recorded videos are gone.

The Hoodblaster-Combo

For starters, I hope we can all agree on the fact that the Heckler is definitely gonna be useless in achieving a new maximum. That's why I tried to come up with the best possible way to get everything in the first room into one Combo. This one should be quite obvious; get as many items as possible with the HMF, and get the Red Gem as late as possible.

The second Matuvu-Combo

Recent discoveries had me believing that splitting up the dreadful 2-Matuvu-Combo might yield more Points. One of these discoveries was that it's easily possible to include the Gems on top of the Mushrooms into the Combo... which would've been possible in the 2-Matuvu-Combo as well, but there were Powerup-Timerange-Issues. Naturally though, that alone would not have been enough, so I had to improve on the first Matuvu-Combo as well...

The first Matuvu-Combo (Attempt)

... and THIS is what I tried to do. If it looks hella difficult, that's because it actually is. I'd even go as far as saying that this is even less enjoyable than playing the 2-Matuvu-Combo. Later, I found out that I overestimated the win of Points by playing this way; in fact, one LOSES Points by splitting the Combo up like this (it's still an interesting way in my opinion).

The extended Stairs-Combo

Which is why I went back to this. It's actually an old Combo of mine, but I hadn't recorded it up to now. As I've not yet found a way to include the Gems on the upmost staircase into that Combo, this is the most efficient way I know. If someone finds a way to include at least some more Gems, please let us know - every Point might be important.

The 2-Matuvu-Combo (Attempt)

The good thing is: I was able to learn from my past failures. I now knew that I could include the Gems on top of the Mushrooms into the Combo. The question was how to fix the issue with the duration of the Powersuit - and I ended up with this Combo. I tried to get to the lone Yellow Gem behind the statue without having to break the Red Gem's Piggybank, but so far, I failed on all attempts. One of the main points (which I failed to show in the original 2-Matuvu-Combo) to be shown is that you can succeed even when taking the Matuvu for 2.500 instead of 2.000 Points. In the video itself, I failed to get the 1.000 Points from the Hoodstormer, but if you look at the counter, you'll see that I actually kept the Combo alive, so I consider this a success. I'm pretty sure that you can get that lone Yellow Gem without breaking a Pig if you play well, which would win another 40 Points for the Red Gem. Now the question is, what do we do about the remaining Gems?

The Elite-Monger-Combo

And that question leads us to my favourite Combo in this Part; I love this! But maybe it's best to go into detail, because some of the stuff I do might seem a little odd:
One, I break the Cage with a curved shot from below, because I think it wins a bit of time over the usual "Climbing-Up-And-Breaking-The-Cage"-Method. Even is this ends up not being a Combo in the final version, this might be a useful strategy to keep in mind.
Two, at 0:43 in the video, I run past the Red Gem, enter the tower, come back, and take the Gem at 0:52. Meaning I'm wasting 9 seconds to get to a place which is like 5 feet away from me. The reason? I've got to get the Hoodlums to assume their positions. I'll talk about that right now.
Three, I'm taking the Red Gem inside the tower. Why? Because once you've entered said tower, you'll have a few seconds before it disappears. As long as you don't enter, it's fine, but I've not yet managed to connect the Red Gem closest to the entrance and the one in the tower itself, so I have to take it before starting the actual Combo. This also explains why I've got to make the Hoodblasters move.
Four, after taking that Red Gem, I'm just standing still for a second, which - of course - loses precious time from the Lockjaw. The problem is that, if you enter the tower, take the Gem and immediately leave, the first Hoodblaster I kill in the video will dead stop in his tracks. Long story short, he would be too far away from the entrance to get him in Combo.
Obviously, you can extend the 2-Matuvu-Combo by incorperating some of the Gems on the upper floor - each Gem taken will gain a bit of time for certain reasons, and increase the chance to get the Elite Monger with the Lockjaw. However, you'll lose Points for everything else in this Combo. I'm still trying to find a good balance. Whatever we may end up with, I believe that - if we could manage to extend the Elite-Monger-Combo - this would be our best shot at a new Highscore.

The Hoodoo-Combo

For example, by using this. The Combo itself isn't worth that much with it's current configuration, but if me managed to add it to the Elite-Monger-Combo, it might mean serious improvements. But up to now, I have not managed to get from the Red Gem to the Gems in the circle on time... I'm just a splitsecond short though! Ah yes, and in case you wonder whether it might be a good idea to maintain as many Gems as possible to take with the Shock Rocket - it's not. You've got to kill the Hoodblaster from the spot where the SR will land, immediately shoot the button, take the remaining Gem "en passant" (it has to be this one, since it's closest to the gates), and roll towards the next Gem. If you try to take several Gems with a Powersuit, you'll fail the part of connecting the 2 groups of Gems; you've got to strafe into the Shock Rocket to not accidently take that Red Gem, which loses too much time. And even if you managed, you'd have to take said Gem from a bad spot, meaning you couldn't keep the Combo going. Now as it is, that's pretty much unimportant, but in case we'd make one Combo out of these 2, it's vital to know this.
I should also mention that there's a lucky factor to this Combo: The gates open once you've hit the button. When you run towards either one of them, usually, the Hoodblaster (who was standing in the middle) will run towards the last room. BUT: For some unkown reason, the Hoodblaster sometimes stays in his initial spot. In that case, you can alter the Combo by taking only 3 Gems, then shoot the Hoodblaster, take one more Yellow Gem, quickly head to the last room, equip the TC, and collect the 8 Gems. This led me to 2 conclusions:
1.) It's important to do thourough investigations in order to find out what causes that phenomenom.
2.) It's important to do thourough investigations in order to find out whether this Combo and the one mentioned above can be connected. After all, if you could add the "Lucky Version" of the Hoodoo-Combo, it would mean that the value of the Combo increases by 5.900 Points to 11.000.

And here's another big BUT: It doesn't take a genius to see that this is still not even close to being enough for a new maximum. It is thus necessary to further extend this Combo - and this is what I'm currently stuck on with my investigations. I will certainly continue looking for new things, but if someone else would find something, I certainly won't mind. That's all for now.

P.S.: As I said, I had tons of other stuff tested, but somehow the footage is gone... I might have to redo some of those videos, since I found a couple of them to be highly informative.

Edit: Forgot to mention the extended Hoodoo-Combo. With the current gameplay, it's rendered useless, but I figured I'd show you guys anyway. Who knows, it may give you some great ideas for improvements.

Some of the combo tricks mentioned here... wow man, SPAAAACE

I'm definitely going to use some of them once I get playing R3 again. Thanks!

This year the TSF players put forth the mantras “it’s not about the HoF” and “we don’t give a shit about the HoF” and “it’s about teamwork now”. If that were true we wouldn’t have seen the flaming posts from the TSF above.

Last year the mantra was “the IPGs should be allowed into the HoF because it’s an in game glitch”.

It is indeed about the HoF and how it should be used, then and now.

The outcome of last year’s debacle was a consensus on using the HoF.

The consensus was and is as follows:

IMG is short for Instant Mode Glitch. This glitch category includes Superjumps, Launching glitches, Razoff glitches, Lums glitches, Cutscene skips, Teleport tricks and Roket’s glitch.

These glitches are characterized by the fact that once triggered, the mode is gone instantly. The player is not able to control or play in a triggered mode. An example is a Superjump, which instantly rockets Rayman high into the air.

Consensus: All current IMGs are allowed in to the Hall of Fame.

LMG is short for Long Mode Glitch. This glitch category includes Infinite Powerup Glitch (IPG), Playable Camera Mode (PCM), Superdive (SD) and Glidewalk (GW).

These glitches are characterized by the fact that once triggered, the mode will last long enough for a player to control and play in a triggered mode. An example is an IPG, which allows Rayman to wear a Powersuit for as long as it takes to reach the next Cutscene.

Consensus: Current IPGs and SDs (as of Spring 2014) are allowed into the Hall of Fame. New occurrences are to be reported to the RPC before being entered into the Hall of Fame.

All PCMs and GWs are banned from the Hall of Fame due to platform dependency.

The RPC did go a long way to make this consensus, and maybe longer than we should. It certainly could be seen as a victory for the TSF players.

The story is now repeating itself. We have a united TSF front that this time in the guise of “eliminating secrecy and promoting teamwork” is furthering own interests in the HoF. I’m not sure if two weeks of cooperation and a sudden change in the stance on secrecy will convince anyone about the sincerity in that though.

According to the consensus, all new IPGs should be reported to the RPC before being entered into the HoF. It seems to me Cut and CC have violated the consensus at this point. They entered their scores for CF without reporting to the RPC first. Furthermore there’s a concern the IPG Look Mode might be platform dependent. We will have to deal with this breach of the consensus.

Once again I’m being attacked personally by the TSF Hoodlums. This time it’s on secrecy. I don’t agree in their claims though. We were the ones creating public walkthroughs for CF and TOTL containing all Maz’s and my most recent knowledge of these levels. And it was way before the secrecy veil was lifted on the TSF. Back then we invited the TSF players to participate, but none came. Teamwork was not an issue back then. All my knowledge on R3 can be found in the scores topic with the exception of my points that cancel out the effect of the IPG.

I will ask the TSF: When is it enough? You got the TOTL IPG into the HoF. I dealt with that and caught up. Now I have to hand over what I found. Let’s assume I do that. What’s your next claim then?

Regarding the HoF I still suggest it be limited to non - IPG scores. Since MG doesn’t use it and sfn and CC don’t give a shit about the HoF I guess we only need to hear from Cut in order to reach an agreement.

Cut: Will you agree to a non - IPG only HoF?

Merry Christmas to all

MandM81 wrote:flaming

Just because the message of my or sfn's posts were not full of peace and harmony, they are not flaming. There is something between black and white.

MandM81 wrote:The story is now repeating itself. We have a united TSF front that this time in the guise of “eliminating secrecy and promoting teamwork” is furthering own interests in the HoF.

Neither sfn nor me have ever mentioned the HoF. The reason why we have a problem with your secrecy is something way bigger and way more important and you would know that if you had understood my last posts.

MandM81 wrote:I’m not sure if two weeks of cooperation and a sudden change in the stance on secrecy will convince anyone about the sincerity in that though.

You speak of 2 weeks which makes me assume that you totally forgot how the Rayman community was before 2009. What the essence of the Rayman 3 community was and still is. And forgetting that is the most terrible thing that can happen to the world champion.

MandM81 wrote:I will ask the TSF: When is it enough? You got the TOTL IPG into the HoF. I dealt with that and caught up. Now I have to hand over what I found. Let’s assume I do that. What’s your next claim then?

Yes, I said before that there is something between black and white. But not in the aspect of secrecy. You keep something secret, and that's something we dislike. Yeah, you made a walkthrough for the CF, that's absolutely true. But secrecy is no question of balance between revealing thins and keeping things, it's a binary term. Also, you should realize that it was not our claim to allow the IPG in the Hall of Fame, it was your claim to not allow it. You pervert the facts. There will be no more claims after we solved the secrecy issue because it is our only claim he have and had.

MandM81 wrote:Cut: Will you agree to a non - IPG only HoF?

MandM, you understood nothing. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. You don't want to understand anything. You refuse to understand anything. If the post you just submitted is your honest, thought-out and ultimate answer to everything I wrote today, I officially retire from Rayman 3.


"One thing remains a certainty: At the height of their glory, even they could not have foreseen their fate, or the speed with which it was delievered."

See you everone. Have a good time.

Maz: Nice videos and nice to be back on topic. LOTLD3 is indeed the land of opportunity when it comes to stringing combos together. Sadly it's mostly Gems and low point objects that are found in this part. The Matuvus, The Hoodoos and the Heckler are too far seperated to be in the same combo unless some weird and unexpected teleportation opportunity presents itself. I guess we are nowhere near a maximum in this part.

well, if that's what it takes to bring peace to the forums. i removed my score from the hof. i'm personally fine by that, if it keeps you happy.

on a side note, the hof has never been "an excellent tool for ranking players according to skills like dexterity, perseverance and ingenuity" with all the bullshit platform and performance differences going on in this game lol

DTUCC wrote:on a side note, the hof has never been "an excellent tool for ranking players according to skills like dexterity, perseverance and ingenuity" with all the bullshit platform and performance differences going on in this game lol

Yeah, but these platform differences merely amounted to a few hundred points. For instance, the missing Vortex in FC that was an issue long ago only accounts for 140 points or is it 170 points, I don't recall precisely. If you were to replay HH with the recent knowledge, you would have an advantage through the Heckler in HH2. That is, the differences are small and have a way of being evened out. I think the HoF is the best ranking tool available.

Maz wrote:And just for the record, I never had a problem with anyone else using IPGs. I'm not a fan of it, but I won't give a damn if someone else decides to incorperate it into his game. In fact, MandM could start using the IPG tomorrow, and I would be fine with it.

As previously mentioned I have nothing against the IPG either. It's great fun to play something different and I get the appeal. I do enjoy creating combos using the IPG like we did in TOTL2. But I don't see that it is necessary to put IPG scores into the HoF since it creates such disharmony. Why not just put in the non - IPG scores into the HoF and post screenshots of IPG scores in this thread? Everyone should be happy with that solution as screenshots are considered sufficient documentation.

On the subject on IPGs, would a potential IPG be helpful at all in LOTLD3? Maybe one could maximize a combo including objects from inside and outside the Tower?

MandM81 wrote:Everyone should be happy with that solution as screenshots are considered sufficient documentation.

on that note, wouldn't it be time to live by what you're preaching?

regarding LOTLD, i haven't been contributing to the discussion, but, even with an ipg, can you guys tell me where you are even hoping to generalte a combo greater than the one in the doctor's office?

DTUCC wrote:on that note, wouldn't it be time to live by what you're preaching?

I don't follow, I'm only entering non - IPH scores into HoF.

DTUCC wrote:regarding LOTLD, i haven't been contributing to the discussion, but, even with an ipg, can you guys tell me where you are even hoping to generalte a combo greater than the one in the doctor's office?

Maz is going through part 3 for a potential new maximum. I can't see it myself unless something unexpected turns up. And even if it were possible to somehow string together objects inside and outside the Tower with an IPG working I doubt there would be enough points anyway.

MandM81 wrote:

DTUCC wrote:on that note, wouldn't it be time to live by what you're preaching?

I don't follow, I'm only entering non - IPH scores into HoF.

i was actuzally referring to screenshots as a sufficient documentation for your scores.

@MandM: You know, the agreement about posting new IPGs applied to both parties. We did post our IPG immediately after finding it. CC and Cut entered their scores into the HoF after they posted it, this was not a violation of the agreement because one part of it was that IPGs that follow the same logic as the one in TOTL and are not gamebreaking will be allowed into the HoF. Meanwhile, you sent a PM to DTUCC in which you tried to trade an IPG you found in CF3 against our combos in TOTL months ago. This was a direct violation of the agreement. This same IPG has not been published to this day.

You disgust me, Mandm. You simply disgust me. I will not continue this discussion with you.

@Maz: I haven't had time to look at your combos, yet, but I'm definitely looking forward to doing so.