Rayman Pirate-Community

Not to interrupt the pro strats talk, but I just finished running through Rayman 3 again myself. Like, literally a few minutes ago. Thought I'd post my end score for the heck of it. 423,545 points. Got the Xowar secret and everything. Heck, I think I got 100% score in every part of the Tower of the Leptys too which really surprised me. Guess I wasn't as rusty as I thought!

1234 wrote:I've also pretty much finished creating some tables (in wikitext) for all gems, enemies etc. of the game. I guess a new article has to be made for that or where should I put it?

What data do those tables contain?

The_Real_Razorbeard wrote:Heck, I think I got 100% score in every part of the Tower of the Leptys too which really surprised me. Guess I wasn't as rusty as I thought!

It's not a real 100% though as you can go well over those figures (though the percentage itself won't go over 100).

@The_Real_Razorbeard: Not bad, but going by your amout of tings you didn't upload your score in the HoF yet; you could do that.

@Maz: Thanks for the answers.

Hunchman801 wrote:What data do those tables contain?

The first table shows the amount of items/objects (i.e. everything what gives you points, except for kickflips) in each level. So the content looks like:
object | FC | CF | BOM | ... | Sum
Yellow Gem | 238 | 419 | 88 | ... | 2353
Red Gem | 38 | 61 | 17 | ... | 446
...
Total | 326 | 644 | 173 | ... | 3851

The next nine tables show the amount of items/objects in each part of each of the nine levels.

Maz wrote:As soon as the cutscene for the Lockjaw started, the red circle remained and when the cutscene ended, I immediately got 500 Points and the Matuvu was gone

Nice finding, though I can't think of a place where it could be useful either. If it worked in every cutscene, then you could possibly use it in CF3, SBTC2 and HH3 (in all other parts you'd either lose points or there's no matuvu / cutscene, I think), but yet I can't see an advantage for that. It might be still worth to keep it in mind.

Well dang, that is quite the boost! Cool that you still bother keeping track with the old keys.

Haruka wrote:I just noticed that MandM81 is over 900k now! Never thought it was possible. Congratulations!

Thanks!

ayyyyyy, that's what I call a Santa Claus gift!

anyway, the Rayman 3 story continues, as every upswing apparently only lasts for a few weeks
I can't even explain how that's coming, sometimes I just catch a fever that makes me play this game and want to setup so many cool things, but then all out of sudden I get tired of it as quickly as I became excited for it. Maybe we can seize the opportunity, have you caught up with the recent attempts of collecting the Rayman 3 knowledge on the Wiki as a central source @MandM? Do you feel any interest in participating in that (with which I mean, just helping in writing down what is already publicly known already because let's not screw up the atmosphere in here once more shall we?) because maybe that helps getting back to work for everyone and especially me!

There's also been some crazy stuff going on in FC if you haven't checked it out already, probably the most interesting developments of the past and that also includes a bunch of problems we (or rather myself because Maz and 1234 have kept crushing everything they touch) haven't found solutions for yet, so a fresh mind may help.

Welcome back MandM, great to see you're still into R3!

I can't speak for the others, but I had to resume my studies after my last couple of posts. That left me with little time to spend on the game, so every progress i have made came along very slowly.

I did manage to beat the No-Glitch-Maximum for SBTC for instance (by changing virtually every single Combo in this level and obtaining ~106k+ after Part 2, to give you an idea), it's just that with so little time on my hands I just recently succeeded in doing so; in the meantime, there wasn't anything worth posting.

That being said, may I ask whether someone has found any new, game-changing Combos while no-one was posting?

Good to see you're back MandM, a nice surprise/gift indeed!

My situation is similar to the one of Maz, so I had hardly time to play R3 ~in the last two months. So, to answer your question Maz, there are no new combos from my side.
Probably I also won't be able to be as active as in our last productive period anytime soon; however, since it's possible to work on it in small intervals, I think I could write another solution for the Wiki, e.g. for BOM, or edit the FC-article, as e.g. the dwarf combo isn't included yet. I'm just not sure what you all are working on now, or what you'd like to do yourself.
As for the LOTLD-solution, unfortunately I still couldn't finish it completely, because there are a few things I have to test yet.
Apart from that I have some other minor ideas outside of LOTLD, which I'd like to try out soon (maybe in the vacations in three weeks), but I actually don't expect too much...

Btw, great work in SBTC! It'll be interesting to see the new combos.

Gee, I didn't expect such a warm welcome. Thanks guys!

I didn't plan a long exile from this forum, it just happened I landed some heavy work this year. Also, I felt quite burned out after HH last year, in fact, I haven't fired up the old X-Box since then.

I'll try my best to catch up before too long. I'll chip in if I can, but I'm a bit rusty in mind and movement at the moment.

What's your latest improvements in your total scores?

Well then, great to see that a big part of the "main forces", if you will, is looking to have a shot at the game again. Even though it would be sad if there was nothing left to explore, I still hope that one of these days, we'll manage to find every last thing in this game. Let's hope for a fruitful collaboration

MandM1981 wrote: What's your latest improvements in your total scores?

Since my HoF-Score is slightly off, here's a list of my current level Points, with HH and BOM being the most recent improvements:

FC: 50.970
CF: 113.930
BOM: 89.360
LOTLD: 121.099
DOTK: 109.789
LS: 42.880
SBTC: 105.019
HH: 109.079
TOTL: 104.499
Total: 846.625

All without Glitches of course. My current goal is to beat that Score in SBTC, but it will certainly be an ordeal
There's still one Combo which I have yet to do investigations on. Who knows, it might just be enough to put me over 108k. After that, I might at some point try to get the Hoodflyer-Maximum in TOTL.

MandM81 wrote:What's your latest improvements in your total scores?

Actually my score didn't change too much in the meantime, since I was more trying to find new combos. So I've only managed to get 50200 points in FC somewhen in January (I think you were already "absent" at this time?) and ~42k in LS. Hopefully next year I'll manage to improve my score a little bit more than this year...

Maz wrote:Even though it would be sad if there was nothing left to explore, I still hope that one of these days, we'll manage to find every last thing in this game. Let's hope for a fruitful collaboration

I hope quite the same, but since new glitches can always occur, there might be always something left to discover. As for glitchless playing, it should be really hard to come up with new combos, but nevertheless I'm sure there are still a few things waiting to be found.
Anyway, I've started to think about every part/level thoroughly (partially once again), so I hope that in the end we'll come a little bit closer to our goal. However of course I can't promise that I'll find anything useful. As I said I have already a few ideas, but mostly I doubt that they'll work. I'll let you know once I've tested them.

Maz wrote:Well then, great to see that a big part of the "main forces", if you will, is looking to have a shot at the game again. Even though it would be sad if there was nothing left to explore, I still hope that one of these days, we'll manage to find every last thing in this game. Let's hope for a fruitful collaboration

I can't begin to count the times it has been thought the game had been exhausted for points. Thankfully something new has turned up. I'm actually looking forward to digging into the game again. It will be sometime in January as I'm on holiday without my X-Box.

Maz wrote:Since my HoF-Score is slightly off, here's a list of my current level Points, with HH and BOM being the most recent improvements:

FC: 50.970
CF: 113.930
BOM: 89.360
LOTLD: 121.099
DOTK: 109.789
LS: 42.880
SBTC: 105.019
HH: 109.079
TOTL: 104.499
Total: 846.625

All without Glitches of course. My current goal is to beat that Score in SBTC, but it will certainly be an ordeal
There's still one Combo which I have yet to do investigations on. Who knows, it might just be enough to put me over 108k. After that, I might at some point try to get the Hoodflyer-Maximum in TOTL.

Well, I'm impressed you were able to reach 51k points in FC without using glitches. I can see I have a lot of exploring to do there. Well done

1234 wrote:Actually my score didn't change too much in the meantime, since I was more trying to find new combos. So I've only managed to get 50200 points in FC somewhen in January (I think you were already "absent" at this time?) and ~42k in LS. Hopefully next year I'll manage to improve my score a little bit more than this year...

Yeah, I was absent during the FC improvements except for the SJ into the Tribelle room. Anyway, having a game plan is a first step towards improvements. I suspect it's possible to get around 4k - 5k more points than it was thought a little more than a year ago.

Maz & 1234: About a year ago there were discussions about improving the max score i TLOTLD through an outrageously long combo in part 3. Was that project put to rest? It sounded really cool, but also borderline (un)playable.

First things first, merry Christmas everyone!

I was not really involved with TLOTLD3 because too many things came up in other levels. I have done some testing however, and it seemed as if the end of the Combo could pose a major problem. Ideally, you would hit the Hoodblaster guarding the Lever on top of the bridge (and then continue by doing an SJ to reach the Gems behind the gate), but whether you can do that depends solely on its position. This works pretty much like the Shoe-Combo in TLS1, you have a very, VERY narrow timeframe and even then you can only shoot the Hoodblaster from one of a select few spots. And whenever I got noticed, it assumed a position where I couldn't hit it at all. This would mean a loss of at the very least 500 and up to 1800 points, so I don't know if it would still be worth it.
That aside, I think 1234 managed to get all the critical connections working and he also figured out the behaviour of the single Hoodlum in the last area of the tower. But no matter the final result, you're right in that it is borderline unplayable.

Oh yeah, I also managed to get the Green Gem in TOTL2 in Combo for 9.000 Points without an IPG. If the Lum-Glitch is exploited well enough, console players should (?) be able to beat the current maximum with that. I don't know if that would be worth it, but let me know in case you're interested, I'd be happy to run some calculations.

Merry Christmas to all, and have some nice free days!

The LOTLD-project is actually still going on, it's just progressing very slowly for various reasons. Anyway, that's the current status:
Since ~last december investigations in part 1 are finished; we can get 45990 points there, I think.
In part 2 I have to test one idea yet, find out at what point the lockjaw will run out in the last combo and record a video with all combos in this part (or at least some attempts).
In part 3, investigations should be pretty much finished already, i guess. So it's just necessary to record a video with all the critical parts (which should all work btw.). If everything in part 2 works out too, I think the maximum will be 124559 points. Also, the ending of the final combo for this maximum actually isn't such a great problem, since for this score you don't need the SJ at the end; and killing the hoodblaster on top of the scaffolding isn't too hard either once you get the hang of it (at least for me there are some other parts of the combo which are much harder). However if you want to use a SJ at the end of the combo to get the gems behind the gate, then this would be extremely difficult indeed; but it'd also lead to ~126k, so it might be worth to put some effort in it.
Anyway, I guess that the new maximum in LOTLD, even though it could be most likely achieved, will remain a "theoretical" maximum, since most of the combos, especially the final one, are just horrible, so noone will play them.

Maz wrote:Oh yeah, I also managed to get the Green Gem in TOTL2 in Combo for 9.000 Points without an IPG. If the Lum-Glitch is exploited well enough, console players should (?) be able to beat the current maximum with that. I don't know if that would be worth it, but let me know in case you're interested, I'd be happy to run some calculations.

Well done! Actually I was never really concerned with TOTL, so I have no idea what's the current status in this level, but I'm still interested in the combo and your calculations, so don't hesitate to post it here!

Also, I thought about FC once again in the last days, but this time maybe more structured. In case you're interested, I'll post the idea which has the highest chance to be possible (compared with my other ideas in FC), below:
In part 4, in the fairy room, after finding André, you can still move for 1-2 seconds before the cutscene will start (which is why the combo-time will run out pretty much immediately after the cutscene). You can use this time e.g. to lower the mushroom beside the hole. That way you'll have optimally 2 seconds left after the cutscene, so that you can renew the vortex and get the yellow gem on the next platform. Then you can kill the last podocrock and finish the combo with the 4 yellow gems between the walls. All this is definitely possible (I succeeded in it).
I also have an idea how the combo might look like, but there's one thing I have to succeed in yet: After activating the hole above the spiral stairs, you can send a curved shot towards the first mushroom in the back, but I'm not sure whether you can use the travel-time of the fist and the two seconds of the mushroom to jump to the next fairy hole and activate it in time (btw., you can't use the last podocrock for that purpose, since you'll need it later on).
If that worked, the combo scheme might look like this (assuming that we'd use the vortex from the last room for the beginning and that it'd last long enough):
Y Y Pc Pc Pc | Fh Y Sd Pc Pc | Y Y Fh Mr Fh | Ah Mr Y Pc Y | Y Y Y *Points: 800-2400-3200
If Cuts idea of connecting the tribelle combo and the fairy combo worked, we could possibly still use my idea, but we'd have to alter the combo a little bit.

Merry Christmas to all.

Maz: I sounds cool with the Green Gem in a 9k combo in TOTL. I wonder if it can be used to beat the Hoodflyer maximum?

I think we landed on 69k - 70k points after part 1 for console players in our walkthrough. Using a score of, say, 70k after part 1, what do you expect the new maximum score to be?

How do you play the 9k combo, and if it works out, maybe we should update the walkthrough for TOTL? Well, for console players at least.

1234: Ok, I think I'll put LOTLD at the bottom of my to-do list for now, however challenging it sounds. I have no time or mood for a new HH.

As for FC, I expect this will be my next project. I haven't really done anything about it for the last five years or so. So I'm definitely all ears to your ideas with a high possibility for succes.

But I would also like to look into room 2 and 3 in part 4 to see what can be done there. The Fairy Hole combo sounds pretty exciting.

By the way, did anyone ever succeed in getting all four Matavus in the same combo in part 3?

I seem to recall that the maximum on PC after TOTL1 was 71.920 Points. Furthermore, my Score-Sheet for TOTL2 provides the following values:

20 0
20 20
20 20
20 20
20 20
500 1000
20 40
500 1000
20 40
---- ----- -----
1140 2160 3300
-----
3300

20 0
20 20
20 20
20 20
20 20
20 40
---- ----- -----
120 120 240
-----
3540

20
260
20
---- ----- -----
300 220 520
-----
4060

20
60
---- ----- -----
80 60 140
-----
4200

20 0
20 20
20 20
20 20
20 20
20 40
20 40
20 40
20 40
20 40
20 60
20 60
200 600
3000 9000
20 60
20 80
60 240
20 80
60 240
20 80
60 300
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
60 300
20 100
60 300
20 100
60 300
20 100
20 100
60 300
20 100
60 300
20 100
60 300
---- ----- -----
4540 15280 19820
-----
24020

20 0
20 20
20 20
20 20
20 20
20 40
20 40
20 40
20 40
20 40
20 60
20 60
200 600
200 600
20 60
200 800
20 80
100 400
10 40
100 400
10 50
100 500
10 50
100 500
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
20 100
---- ----- -----
1710 6480 8190
-----
32210

(probably horribly formatted in this post)

That means PC-Players can get 71.920 + 32.210 = 104.130 Points. With the consoles' max being 105.869 Points, you'd have to gain 1.740 Points through the Lum-Glitch. I don't remember if that's possible or not, I guess we'd have to check our old Combos and re-do some of the calculations to see how to play TOTL1 in order to do that (seeing how the Lum-Glitch isn't all too relevant in TOTL2, even though it does provide a few extra Points).

P.S.: Green Gem for 9.000 Points. I messed up a previous attempt, but you're supposed to start by taking 4 Yellow Gems at the top. Also, after the Green Gem, continue with the Piggybank on the roof, then drop down below and continue with how you'd usually play the Piggybank-Combo.

P.S.S.: Something else I want to bring to your attention. I don't know what triggers this, but appearently the Green Gem doesn't spawn if you pull the Lever AFTER finishing off all the Hoodstormers. Meaning you can't include the Hoodblaster in any of the major Combos. We should keep this in mind because that means there's still potential for quite a few Points in TOTL2, namely if we find a way to avoid this Glitch.

Thanks for the videos and the calculations. The Green Gem Combo is pretty cool.

Ok, I don’t have my combo spreadsheets with me, so I merely took at the scores from the two-year-old walkthrough on page 1 in this thread. It states

Score after part 1 for PC players: 63.930 points
Score after part 1 for console players: 69.540 points

While these numbers may be outdated, they do show a difference of 5k+ points in favour of console players. Perhaps it is time to update part 1. I’ll look into it after the holiday.

In order to beat the Hoodflyer maximum I guess a score of around 74k after part 1 will be necessary. It’s a tall order that requires all Lum conversions going your way. But it’s a worthy project.

As for the missing Green Gem, I guess if you avoid killing the last Hoodstormer the Green Gem will appear?

Also, have you experimented with getting the HMF and activating it at different points in the progress? I guess it won’t have any effect, but you never know.

Tbh, I didn't bother testing what would happen if I didn't kill the final Hoodstormer. I may be able to get the Hoodblaster in Combo that way, but in exchange you'd lose all your Combo-Points for that 7th Hoodstormer. Furthermore, you can only get the HMF after killing the Hoodblaster, meaning there's not really a lot of experimenting to be done which could help that cause.

I seem to remember that a lot of these additional 5k Points between the platforms come from 3 things:
1.) The old Elite-Monger-Combo. Seeing how we used to reach the Lockjaw in the Hecklers' room and then start off the Combo by using just the 2 Yellow Gems on the netting, console players were able to build up a huge advantage by properly abusing the Lum-Glitch to move the enemies up a few spots. However, the best version we currently know of has the Piggybanks from the previous room included, meaning there's 19 items before finishing off the first Hoodstormer. This effectively cancels out a lot of that advantage.
2.) The old, really awkward Heckler-Hoodoo-Combo in that same room. I don't know if you remember that, but we used to kill the 3 Hecklers first, then slowly get the items on the crates to then kill the Hoodmonger (alonng with the Hoodoos) as soon as it descended. You could move a few enemies up enough spots to get a huge lead on PC-Players, but the more recent Combo doesn't let you exploit the Lum-Glitch quite that much.
3.) The Shoe-Combo. This one remains pretty much the same, but then again it wasn't too big a deal even in our old walkthrough.

With all that in mind, console players won't be able to beat PC-Players by 5k anymore. You could maybe grind out 2-2.5k, but that's with 10 Shoe-Hits, so yeah.

EDIT: Found my old post:

Maz wrote: Found some small improvements in TOTL1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r27j5AtSY6M

By killing some of the Slapdashes beforehand, you can save some time, which allows you to get all the boxes into this Combo. Sadly, you've got to take some of them without a Powersuit, but this is the best I've got. In the video, I took 5 Gems without the Lockjaw; I'm assuming you can get it down to at least 4. Wins 240 Points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr-o7Xj6ijM

How to reach the wooden platform without the Throttle Copter. If you manage to get the SJ on your first try, then you can take all the Gems just before the Lockjaw runs out. Wins 40 Points for that Gem at the exit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXo-CeiA_3U

And that leaves us with another Hoodlum-Combo of course. I don't know whether it's possible to break the Pig in Combo, but I assumed it isn't. Loses 100 Points for the Wooden Door, but wins 180 for the 2 Gems. Total gain: 80 Points.

Which leads to a Score of 71.740 Points after Part 1 with 10 Shoe-Hits. Other potential sources of additional Points:

- Include the Pig for an extra 180 Points.
- Every additional box taken with a Powersuit gains another 60 Points.

And with the TOTL2-Score before the Green-Gem-Combo being 29.290, PC-Players can get up to 101.030 Points now. 3.5k left.

As you can see, 71.740. Since then I've managed to include the Piggybank into the Hoodlum-Combo, so +180 = 71.920. I guess I'd have to go back and see if I could manage to get less than 4 Gems in the Shoe-Combo without the Lockjaw.

Thanks for the videos. It will certainly add to the score.

I did some quick calculations on the Lums in TOTL part 1. It depends a little bit on the combos played, but here goes. I have counted the points coming from Lums alone respecting their positions in the combos. The points are counted with 1 Lum, 2 Lums and 3 Lums converted each time. The results are:

1 Lum: 3.020 points
2 Lums: 6.320 points
3 Lums: 9.720 points

Looking only at the gain from conversions into 2 or 3 Lums compared to 1 Lum the results are:

2 Lums: +3.300 points
3 Lums: +6.700 points

Now, the conversion into 2 Lums and 3 Lums have implications for the combo points from Hoodlums like Hecklers, Hoodoos and Hoodstylers. I have disregarded minor contributions, but they also add up. The Hoodlum benefit for the Lum conversions into 2 or 3 Lums compared to 1 Lum are:

2 Lums: +1.200 points
3 Lums: +1.900 points

Adding these contributions one gets

2 Lums: +4.500 points
3 Lums: +8.600 points

In part 2 the first combo is the Lavomatrix Combo. On PC it goes like this:

YYYYP|LaLLaL

where Y denotes a Yellow Gem, P denotes a Piggybank, La denotes a Lavomatrix and L denotes a Lum, all taken with a Powerup.

The total score from this combo is 3.300 points.

Console players are able to use a well known trick, which goes like this: If you for example kill a Hoodstormer or a Lavomatrix while it's in a high position in the air, the Lum will fly away. If you convert a Lum that flies away like that, it will quite often convert into nine Lums or more. And since the Lavomatrix Combo is the first combo, it's just a matter of restarts until you get it right.

The combo can thus go like this:

YYYYP|LaLLLL|LLLLL|LaLLLL|LLLLL

The total score from this combo is 5.820 points, which is a bonus of 2.520 points compared to the PC combo.

Adding this amount to the benefits from part 1 we get

2 Lums: +7.020 points
3 Lums: +11.120 points

Obviously no-one will ever convert everything into 3 Lums, but even 2 Lums give a clear benefit. The way to a good score will be to play strategically and get the Lum conversions right in the combos that matter.

That is actually insane. Since the easier version of the Heckler-Room (i.e. the easy Elite-Monger-Combo) "only" loses 3-4k (on PC, due to the Lum-Glitch probably even less on console), you could in theory be able to beat the Hoodflyer-Maximum even without playing all the hard Combos, as with 2 Lums converted you'd still be at ~+3.000 compared to the perfect PC-Score - worst case, that is, which would lead to a Score of 107k still.

One question regarding your first Combo in TOTL2: Being able to comvert the Lums from both Lavicrafts is a very rare occurence to me, since the cutscene triggers as soon as the second one is killed and the Black Lum flies away during that period of time. Is it really possible to convert more than 3 Lums despite that?