Rayman: Revenge of the Dark

[PluMGMK]

Must… resist… temptation… to… go… see… for… self…

[Tulio]

seeing the RPC wiki links flying everywhere i'd say that thread got effectively hijacked. it's gonna get autodeleted soon, but you can still see an archived version for next 48 hours

edit: it's already archived

[DandyGuy]

I hope you're joking, because I can 100% guarantee you it's not fake.
I'm not going to link to the thread since.... it's 4chan. But you can visit it right now on the /v/ section of 4chan if you wish.

Though it should be mentioned they are still acting uncivilized regardless of the few awesome people in the thread. Mostly telling people who like the Rabbids series to kill themselves. Stay classy 4chan.

Of course that was a joke.

Photoshaped. 4chan never acts so civilized.

nah, it's just your prejudice based on public opinion on 4chan - it's good to experience community on your own to prevent inaccurate assumptions. everyone there's drooling about great music and power rankings so far, life is good and /v/ is surprisingly united when it comes to rayman series

Thats true, but most of 4chan is uncivilized especially when you say something that sounds hateful about mlp fim.

[deton24]

Soundtrack from first scene (beginng of game like R3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB44XAz ... KBU-FxxzCQ
in mp3:
https://yadi.sk/d/hXObrCsmrQnwj
Masterpiece.
Advice. Do you know that display of first post causes one big lag of browser and computer? Everything because all You Tube links are opening in same time.

[Plejadenwolf]

Soundtrack from first scene (beginng of game like R3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB44XAz ... KBU-FxxzCQ
in mp3:
https://copy.com/3YeElo6wsnnf
Masterpiece.
Advice. Do you know that display of first post causes one big lag of browser and computer? Everything because all You Tube links are opening in same time.

Ah, seriously one of my favorite videos. Even if it shows an old version of the game it just gives me chills. Especially the beginning parts up to 9:45 are seriously amazing and the music fits perfectly to the absolutely great atmosphere. Everything looks so perfect, just unbelievable moments of joy. Thanks for converting it, now I don't have to do it myself. Thanks a lot!

There are coming some things into my mind viewing this masterpiece of showcasing great stuff again:

1.) Memory Realms: Is this actually the realm in where Rayman's travels to other worlds shortly similar to the Hall of Doors or is it really the realm in where the memories of his powers are stored, some of them forgotten, some of them not yet revealed? In my humble opinion this should be for "memories" as the name suggests and it could be very interesting to search around in Rayman's mind for hidden secrets or memories from the past.

2.) Looking at the Canyon of the Lost I just have to say: Ad, please add tumbleweeds! (You know, those famous rolling bushes in cliche western.) They would perfectly fit to this place in my opinion. As for the atmosphere I think it could be influenced by a mix of martian surface, Australian dessert and Uluru (or Ayers Rock), the Grand Canyon or other canyons, maybe some not so commonly known ones.
I think there are many great rock formations which you could use for this. Just look some random canyon or rock formation pictures at google. Or some more weird rock formations maybe. Additionally, I think structures like termite hills would be very interesting. I saw many of them as I was in Australia several years ago and I think they might be a great inspiration for Raymanish rock formations.

I think nature is as limitless in those formations as our mind is, except that our mind has the opportunity to make use of both, so I really can't wait what you're coming up with.


Another topic I recently thought about is the inner link between Rayman and Dark Rayman and how this could be shown in between the game. Maybe there could be some kind of "dream" levels which are just small utricular atmosphere levels with no actual challenge at all. An old post came into my mind thinking about that:

Very cool (or flamy in that case). Would be cool to see some artwork from Dark Rayman where he is looking in the sea or a puddle, seeing his face mirroring in it with an expression where he just seems to think about things, not looking ultra-brutal badass but just a little bit reducing to his character. Maybe in the middle of a night, full moon is shining in a forest in the Glade of Dreams and his yellow almost soulless or demonic looking eyes reflecting. Just a thought.

However, good work!

It think that concept may fit into that. Think about our shattered hero who sometimes needs a rest before going on to his journey. Maybe some resting places like hammocks are needed even to enter the Realm of Memories, but there should be a distinction between sleeping and just snoozing for a while. However, let's go for a possible scene what happens when he actually sleeps:

A mysterious link between our beloved hero and his counterpart begins to work, the screen blurs out. The game goes into first-person mode, you're standing in a forest at night somewhere in the Glade of Dreams and the only thing you can do is walking forward. No attacks, no jumps, just walking. You're limited to your basic self awareness.

What you see are wonderful trees and creatures and an amazing nightly sky with both moons shining. However, as you proceed forward you're coming to a nice little pond. As you're bending forward you're realizing that not Rayman is wandering through that scene, but his dark counterpart. You see his radiant eyes reflecting in the pond for a moment. That's the first sudden moment you realize that you're him. You're not sure what these gleaming eyes say to you, they look like they were the result of searching oneself but founding nothing than a void called existence by some of the inhabitants of the Glade. An existence filled up with destruction and darkness, an existence now seeing itself in the mirror of nature.

Okay, that was an extended version of the basic idea mentioned above. Now let's go further:

I imagine this scene as sort of an end of some other similar dreams before. In this last one you're actually getting aware that it was the persona of Dark Rayman after all which you accompanied during those "dreams". There could be other sequences where you walk into a lush forest with everything nice harmonic and as you wander forward everything around you gets more and more weird and dark, withering flowers which turn into ash and dust, harmless creatures are running away in panic of your presence.

Another scenic possibility would an attacked village which is burning down. Wandering around, it's where you see Graveslaves capturing several of the civilians. You can't do anything but watch. The captured ones are begging you to free them, not knowing that the source of this threat of all that is you. And maybe, your promising them to be..."free"... This makes the player think that Rayman is dreaming of himself, who blames himself not to rescue the ones he wanted to save. How can he beat the worst of nightmares if he can't beat the nightmares within? "Don't be fooled by yourself." - An advice Rayman still has to learn.

Optionally, this scene could be connected one scene, not a part of several sequences. I thought about something like this:

Rayman is dreaming of the aforesaid attacked village, huts and trees are burning, civilians and all kind of creatures are running away in panic of the Graveslaves. The Graveslaves are not recognizing you. Then the presence of yourself knees down for a moment, getting in panic of something. This is actually the case as Dark Rayman gets aware that someone or something is watching him, but he can't say what's wrong or what's going on with him. The only thing he does is fleeing in the nearest forest, saying something like "Get away from me!" or "Why don't I have the power to...". In this scene the player thinks that he means the Graveslaves which may be after him, in fact he is referring to Rayman's presence in his head which he can't get rid of in this moment, for the first time making him feeling powerless. As he runs further he comes to the pond I mentioned above, where you recognize his gleaming eyes reflecting on the water. "Don't be fooled by yourself, it makes you a fool on yourself." As we all know such ponds regularly make small circular waves appearing. Scene out, Rayman awakes back in Fort Night. Waking up in panic, he thinks that the whole thing was just a bad nightmare. His friends are up to calm him down after he awakes.

I think it should be open to the player to interpret this scene. However, the panultimate feeling you should get by this is: "Shit, that was the antagonist of the game and I was not directing the hero through a dream sequence? Damn!"

As you can clearly see the idea is not fully developed, so I really don't know if this is utterly shit or does even work technically. However, I wanted to share it for those who are interested in reading. I want to hear ya!

[Sentaku]

I might try this game you made a try!

[Earth Gwee]

It hasn't been made yet. It's still in heavy development.

[42burhan42]

What do you think about this Picture city music, you can use it if you want but if you dont its fine hahaha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml4abZo ... bXSfEFx_Ng

[Imco]

I'm pretty sure Ad only uses music he made himself

[incognito]

Wow, that thread haven't been refreshed since a week.

[DandyGuy]

Is there anything new?

[Shrooblord]

Wow, that thread haven't been refreshed since a week.

That's par for the course seeing as development, while ever present, isn't exactly interesting to show as of yet.

You guys may have seen Ad post some happy comments in the pluses minuses thread about getting Rayman's physics working properly. So yes, there is something new, but not really showable, dawg.

Be patient! There will be more stuff. ^-^

[saerleiya]

You guys may have seen Ad post some happy comments in the pluses minuses thread about getting Rayman's physics working properly. So yes, there is something new, but not really showable, dawg.

Good luck with gravity . Still nice to know that Rayman can move around properly now. Great job!

Be patient! There will be more stuff. ^-^

Just lemme grab some cookies...

[MisterDark'sFanClub]

Soundtrack from first scene (beginng of game like R3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB44XAz ... KBU-FxxzCQ
in mp3:
https://copy.com/3YeElo6wsnnf
Masterpiece.
Advice. Do you know that display of first post causes one big lag of browser and computer? Everything because all You Tube links are opening in same time.

1. That music was amazing. Not too fond of the Dream Forest and Picture City music, though. Why is Pictur e City scary looking? I remember Picture City was covered in ink and technically "scary looking" because of the strain of Mister Dark's torture and the imbalance from the missing Great Protoon had on the Valley I'm R1. Is it the same basic concept in this game?

2. Canyon of the Lost looks to much like Zion Valley from Fallout: New Vegas. Like, WAY too much. (Btw, why's it called Canyon of the Lost?)

3. Because of those ending voice dubs, I'm immediately OBSESSED with Dark Rayman in this game! The flailing of the hands and yelling, "You incompetent SLAVE!!!"? Brilliant! What scene in the game does he say that and why?!

4. I'm absolutely IN LOVE with the idea of Rayman and his dark doppleganger bent connected by each others dreams; and that first person POV. that makes the player think they're looking through the eyes of Rayman only to find out it's actually Dark Rayman looking at his reflection in the pond. It's totally epic!

5. Are there anymore Dark Rayman clips? Or anymore awesome updates for that matter? I've been away from this website for quite awhile.

6. Hey, what if, during one of those dream sequences, Dark Rayman looks at himself in the pond and sees Rayman staring back at him? And then Rayman asks him why he's causing so much mayhem, and Dark Rayman gets angry and they get into an argument which results in Dark Rayman smashing the reflection away and furiously start to doubt himself and question his goals in life?

[incognito]

Hey, i had a great idea !

What. Do you think about a secret area in the game with all the pc members on a wall ?

Like Brad's drawing.

[Adsolution]

Wow, gosh, I've been just a bit neglectful in regards to this thread over the last two months. I apologise, here we go:

Advice. Do you know that display of first post causes one big lag of browser and computer? Everything because all You Tube links are opening in same time.

Yeah, I should take that all down to save people the pain of not only dealing with browser lag, but shitty old shit that shouldn't be even advertised at this point (nearly everything in the first post, bar the cute fan-drawings and poems).

Everything looks so perfect,

Ahaha, no. Logically speaking, since what I have now is much better than that plain stuff, it isn't remotely perfect. But I guess I can't prove that to anyone until I actually show something!

Thanks for converting it, now I don't have to do it myself. Thanks a lot!

No need actually, check out the second track in Soundtrack part 24!

1.) Memory Realms: Is this actually the realm in where Rayman's travels to other worlds shortly similar to the Hall of Doors or is it really the realm in where the memories of his powers are stored, some of them forgotten, some of them not yet revealed? In my humble opinion this should be for "memories" as the name suggests and it could be very interesting to search around in Rayman's mind for hidden secrets or memories from the past.

The idea of the place is that it's basically a mental place - not even metaphysical, more comparable to a lucid dream - where Rayman can sift through his memories in clear detail (revisiting levels), in a way so that it actually changes the outcome as a result of Rayman having garnered more knowledge over the course of his journey, a 'power' he gains after his first visit to the Memory Realm in the... Memory Realm level, technically, the level you're entered in to between the first and second levels (you won't automatically be transported here after completing any other level, you can just choose to go back there at any time). You could perceive this as being an elaborate way to make sense of revisiting levels and events in order to collect pickups, but a little twist I've thrown in is that whatever you do differently in one level will affect every level after it (these are mostly scripted if they're game-changing, and dynamic if they're related to powering up and whatnot), but every level before it still remains unchanged.

Please point out if there's any inherent game-breakiness to this concept, because I feel like there would be, but I can't think of any for some reason.

2.) Looking at the Canyon of the Lost I just have to say: Ad, please add tumbleweeds! (You know, those famous rolling bushes in cliche western.) They would perfectly fit to this place in my opinion. As for the atmosphere I think it could be influenced by a mix of martian surface, Australian dessert and Uluru (or Ayers Rock), the Grand Canyon or other canyons, maybe some not so commonly known ones.

Maybe some giant, 20-foot tumbleweeds, that would be hilarious!

I think there are many great rock formations which you could use for this. Just look some random canyon or rock formation pictures at google. Or some more weird rock formations maybe. Additionally, I think structures like termite hills would be very interesting. I saw many of them as I was in Australia several years ago and I think they might be a great inspiration for Raymanish rock formations.

Ah yes, Spanex and I have been working on rocks a lot lately (literally), as well as drawing many concepts. One of those exact images we actually used as a reference.

I think nature is as limitless in those formations as our mind is, except that our mind has the opportunity to make use of both, so I really can't wait what you're coming up with.

Couldn't have phrased it better myself.

(...)
It think that concept may fit into that. Think about our shattered hero who sometimes needs a rest before going on to his journey. Maybe some resting places like hammocks are needed even to enter the Realm of Memories, but there should be a distinction between sleeping and just snoozing for a while. However, let's go for a possible scene what happens when he actually sleeps:
(...)

I actually had an idea like this way back in 2009, where a fountain or really reflective pond would signify the end of a level, and if you look into it, you go into the Memory Realm/level select. It's similar to the hammock idea. Unfortunately, the more I pondered this, the more it became obvious that that would severely hamper the flow of progressing from one level to another, always assuming that any transition is a situation where Rayman can stop for a moment, let alone sleep. There are a few levels already where this would literally be impossible, the best example probably being the transition from the Ice Volcano to Starlight Peak, where the previous level ends and the next level begins just as Rayman slides off a cliff after being chased by a lavalanche (hehe, just thought of that word now).

Another topic I recently thought about is the inner link between Rayman and Dark Rayman and how this could be shown in between the game. Maybe there could be some kind of "dream" levels which are just small utricular atmosphere levels with no actual challenge at all. An old post came into my mind thinking about that:
[quote="Plejadenwolf"]Very cool (or flamy in that case). Would be cool to see some artwork from Dark Rayman where he is looking in the sea or a puddle, seeing his face mirroring in it with an expression where he just seems to think about things, not looking ultra-brutal badass but just a little bit reducing to his character. Maybe in the middle of a night, full moon is shining in a forest in the Glade of Dreams and his yellow almost soulless or demonic looking eyes reflecting. Just a thought.

However, good work!

(...)

A mysterious link between our beloved hero and his counterpart begins to work, the screen blurs out. The game goes into first-person mode, you're standing in a forest at night somewhere in the Glade of Dreams and the only thing you can do is walking forward. No attacks, no jumps, just walking. You're limited to your basic self awareness.

What you see are wonderful trees and creatures and an amazing nightly sky with both moons shining. However, as you proceed forward you're coming to a nice little pond. As you're bending forward you're realizing that not Rayman is wandering through that scene, but his dark counterpart. You see his radiant eyes reflecting in the pond for a moment. That's the first sudden moment you realize that you're him. You're not sure what these gleaming eyes say to you, they look like they were the result of searching oneself but founding nothing than a void called existence by some of the inhabitants of the Glade. An existence filled up with destruction and darkness, an existence now seeing itself in the mirror of nature.

Okay, that was an extended version of the basic idea mentioned above. Now let's go further:

I imagine this scene as sort of an end of some other similar dreams before. In this last one you're actually getting aware that it was the persona of Dark Rayman after all which you accompanied during those "dreams". There could be other sequences where you walk into a lush forest with everything nice harmonic and as you wander forward everything around you gets more and more weird and dark, withering flowers which turn into ash and dust, harmless creatures are running away in panic of your presence.

Another scenic possibility would an attacked village which is burning down. Wandering around, it's where you see Graveslaves capturing several of the civilians. You can't do anything but watch. The captured ones are begging you to free them, not knowing that the source of this threat of all that is you. And maybe, your promising them to be..."free"... This makes the player think that Rayman is dreaming of himself, who blames himself not to rescue the ones he wanted to save. How can he beat the worst of nightmares if he can't beat the nightmares within? "Don't be fooled by yourself." - An advice Rayman still has to learn.

Optionally, this scene could be connected one scene, not a part of several sequences. I thought about something like this:

Rayman is dreaming of the aforesaid attacked village, huts and trees are burning, civilians and all kind of creatures are running away in panic of the Graveslaves. The Graveslaves are not recognizing you. Then the presence of yourself knees down for a moment, getting in panic of something. This is actually the case as Dark Rayman gets aware that someone or something is watching him, but he can't say what's wrong or what's going on with him. The only thing he does is fleeing in the nearest forest, saying something like "Get away from me!" or "Why don't I have the power to...". In this scene the player thinks that he means the Graveslaves which may be after him, in fact he is referring to Rayman's presence in his head which he can't get rid of in this moment, for the first time making him feeling powerless. As he runs further he comes to the pond I mentioned above, where you recognize his gleaming eyes reflecting on the water. "Don't be fooled by yourself, it makes you a fool on yourself." As we all know such ponds regularly make small circular waves appearing. Scene out, Rayman awakes back in Fort Night. Waking up in panic, he thinks that the whole thing was just a bad nightmare. His friends are up to calm him down after he awakes.

I think it should be open to the player to interpret this scene. However, the panultimate feeling you should get by this is: "Shit, that was the antagonist of the game and I was not directing the hero through a dream sequence? Damn!"

As you can clearly see the idea is not fully developed, so I really don't know if this is utterly shit or does even work technically. However, I wanted to share it for those who are interested in reading. I want to hear ya! [/size][/quote]The way I see this is likely not quite in the way you were intending (though it might have been):

When Rayman wakes up essentially in Dark Rayman's body as you mentioned, he knows everything he knows, and he feels everything that he feels, yet he's still Rayman with the same mind, emotions and all. But the frightening part to him is that he understands it all in this state, because the whole idea of Dark Rayman is essentially them being one and the same cloned in two, having been nurtured in complete opposite environments. No, this isn't baseless commentary on natural brain development, it's fiction.

What do you think about this Picture city music, you can use it if you want but if you dont its fine hahaha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml4abZo ... bXSfEFx_Ng

I'm pretty sure Ad only uses music he made himself

Aye, this is so. I did enjoy your rendition though! Am I hearing Waves H-Delay on the piano at 0:48? I am curious as to what string sample you're using at 1:04, since it sounds quite nice.

You guys may have seen Ad post some happy comments in the pluses minuses thread about getting Rayman's physics working properly. So yes, there is something new, but not really showable, dawg.

Yup, and the mechanics are nearly done. Just some bug-de'ing, and... fixing the way calculations are done. They're currently much more dependent on the framerate that I initially thought. According to what I coded, they should function perfectly/the same as long as the framerate is above 20, but since I wasn't able to put a framecap on to actually test that theory (since I didn't realise v-sync was put on by default in the engine now, I can only use a framecap if it's disabled, so I was confused), when I tried it out today, I noticed everything was going horribly wrong. When I had the framerate capped at 20, gravity was almost twice as weak and he would run slower, but not slow enough for them to cancel eachother out, it was a mess; he also had a tendency to clip through the ground. Even at a shocking framecap of 60 the gravity wasn't on full-power, and I found out that I needed a minimum of 70 FPS in order for the mechanics to function correctly, and given that not everyone has a 144 hz monitor like I do, that's...

So yeah, they're coming along really, really well, bar that one thing that occurs if you don't have a beast-ass GPU and monitor - I'm so happy, just like I was when I felt Shrek's warmth come up behind me. Even the helicopter is done (bar the animation).

I remember Picture City was covered in ink and technically "scary looking" because of the strain of Mister Dark's torture and the imbalance from the missing Great Protoon had on the Valley I'm R1.

Picture City in Rayman 1, scary-looking? I always thought it was one of the most serene and peacful-looking places there were next to the Dream Forest, it just wasn't designed for bags of meat like Rayman!

Why is Pictur e City scary looking? (...) Is it the same basic concept in this game?

Given that Picture City is the only area (besides the Dream Forest, though that doesn't really count) that is directly revisited, I figured I would put my own twist on it. By no means am I retconning the style of the original though, no, it's just that a large amount of Rayman's time in Picture City here is spent in areas/seasons that Rayman hadn't previously explored. The misty/rainy Picture City seen here has a sentimental, very much intended meaning behind it; it's difficult to describe without artwork or a video accompanying it. Nothing in Picture City in ROTD is made to look 'human', and I'm not talking anthropomorphically. Even if you have a drawing pin with two eyes, they move and act in such a way that seems unrelatable and distant - it may seem as if they're following you, but then you notice them actually tracing a different path, as if they've already forgotten about you, or never noticed you in the first place. There's one scene where you see shredded origami birds continually floating across the scene, and the whole point is to arouse a sense of confused poignancy by having them simply be shoddily-made papercrafts on par with newspaper hats floating about, but at the same time, given that everything in this land is sentient and organic even if alien, they're actually probably torn, living birds, but you can't feel for them the way you know you want to, and that's what's upsetting.

Of course, that's something very specific I'm going for, and a lot of work will be put into that particular scene so that as many people react as similarly as possible, even if it's just as a little tinge on their subconscious. I don't intend for everyone to literally grasp the roots of their feelings, it's moreso a 'motif' present throughout the level.

2. Canyon of the Lost looks to much like Zion Valley from Fallout: New Vegas. Like, WAY too much. (Btw, why's it called Canyon of the Lost?)

I haven't played New Vegas, though I did play Fallout 3. I'll be darned if anyone's going to copyright the look of a canyon, though.

As for the name, it relates to the third section of the level in which these gardevoir-esque spirits lead you through a thick mist, around unstable ground, obstacles and whatnot.

3. Because of those ending voice dubs, I'm immediately OBSESSED with Dark Rayman in this game! The flailing of the hands and yelling, "You incompetent SLAVE!!!"? Brilliant! What scene in the game does he say that and why?!

Ahahah, I have a feeling that if this game sees the light of day, Dark Rayman will have a pretty large fangirl club, sort of like how Loki does. The angsty villain who you can give your heart to!

Though, I don't really know where that line was supposed to take place or why, I think it had something to do with a scene somewhere towards the middle-end where he nicks off a minor character created just for this game, to basically be killed off, but at the same time serves as sort of an inspiration. Not trying to go pointlessly dark here; there are a few scenes that are meant to be dark such as this, but not without purpose, nor is that the sole vibe of the scene. Something like the aforementioned Picture City isn't meant to be 'dark', moreso surreal and thought-provoking with a layer of subjective poignancy if you take some time to think about it.

5. Are there anymore Dark Rayman clips? Or anymore awesome updates for that matter? I've been away from this website for quite awhile.

Not yet unfortunately. ;D

6. Hey, what if, during one of those dream sequences, Dark Rayman looks at himself in the pond and sees Rayman staring back at him? And then Rayman asks him why he's causing so much mayhem, and Dark Rayman gets angry and they get into an argument which results in Dark Rayman smashing the reflection away and furiously start to doubt himself and question his goals in life?

I want to avoid clichés or being too literal with this sort of thing when possible. Probably the closest I'd go to a scene being that "in your face" is Plejadenwolf's idea, which hit a fairly happy medium.

Hey, i had a great idea !

What. Do you think about a secret area in the game with all the pc members on a wall ?

Like Brad's drawing.

Not a bad idea! One can never have too many Easter-eggs.

[Bradandez]

Hey, i had a great idea !

What. Do you think about a secret area in the game with all the pc members on a wall ?

Like Brad's drawing.

Not a bad idea! One can never have too many Easter-eggs.

*Prepares future lawsuit*

[saerleiya]

Another wall of doom

Well, that was quite interesting.

You said everything about the helicopter was done, but not the animation. I guess you are talking about helicopter's physics and its influence on the movement on Rayman while pressing a button, and that what you haven't finished yet is the way it looks on Rayman's head?

I have another question: did you manage to use Komplete Ultimate 8 again and have you created a few other songs along the way?

[Adsolution]

You said everything about the helicopter was done, but not the animation. I guess you are talking about helicopter's physics and its influence on the movement on Rayman while pressing a button, and that what you haven't finished yet is the way it looks on Rayman's head?

That is correct. At the moment he continues to play the falling animatiom while helicoptering.

I have another question: did you manage to use Komplete Ultimate 8 again and have you created a few other songs along the way?

I've been working on some tracks. Since my standard of quality has greatly increased, like with most other things, I havent shown any of it yet.

[saerleiya]

Since my standard of quality has greatly increased

I REALLY can't wait for them now...You nasty manipulator.