Rayman 3D

[Sabertooth]

Did it have to? Did it really have to?

- 1000000 for Ubi

This says it all. I've never heard of anything so redundant. If we're getting this now, then what the hell was the point of the iPhone port, which came out less than a year ago? Is it ever going to occur to Ubi that we've all played this game already?

I will give them the benefit of the doubt: If they finally include the Globox Village and the minigames, this could be worth buying. They just need to utilize the 3DS's huge potential.

But am I the only one who's bugged that Rayman ports are never advertised as Rayman ports? The trailers are always like "Help Rayman fight against the evil Robot-Pirates!" and all that nonsense. How come they never say stuff like "Relive Rayman's second adventure for the billionth time on the iPhone and iTouch"? Whatever, just a minor nitpick.

[Eshap]

I'm ashamed to say I've never played the DC version of R2, so I guess this is game could be a bit more promising for me. Globox Village sounds very interesting and I'm eager to play the minigames in it.

Though, I gotta ask..Am I the only person who had no issues with the controls in Rayman DS? Or are you all only refering to the touchscreen controls? I've used them once and I remember them being very awkward..

[Adsolution]

They might as we have porter Rayman 2 Revolution. The 3Ds is a decent amount more powerful than the PS2, so there's no reason why not and it would look twice as good as this "upgraded" Dreamcast version. Revolution has the Minisaurus Plains, the best hub ever. It had upgradeable power-ups you could buy, it had more levels, it has higher poly and more detailed models and better animations and better textures and looks wAAAAAYyYYYyyYYY betterthan any upgraded Dreamcast version could.

@Eshap:
I never had any control problems with any game I've played. My only real complaint about the DS controls was the 700 millisecond delay after pressing a button for it to respond.

[Cairnie]

I can't even get my thumb over to the touchscreen thingie 'cause my hands are so... ok not Jeremy Beadle small, but they are small.

[Janic]

Rayman 3D boxart:



+ Screenshots:

http://3dsconnect.com/2011/01/19/rayman ... #more-3456

[Droolie]

I'm actually surprised. I thought they were going to take the N64 version, but this being the Dreamcast version with improved graphics (I love the improved lighting, especially in the Prison Ship level) and in 3D makes it a buy - actually no, more like download - for me. I hope they fix the problem with the pirate icon in the Bayou screenshot though.
I also like how in the Prison Ship and Whale Bay screenshots, there appears to be a depth of field effect.
Oh yeah and the boxart is okay I guess. At least they used the Rayman 2 model for this one, instead of the R3 one like for Rayman DS.

[GlueTube365]

Personally, I would have expected a graphical enhancement, like what Nintendo did with Orcarnia of Time and Starfox 64.

[spiraldoor]

This says it all. I've never heard of anything so redundant. If we're getting this now, then what the hell was the point of the iPhone port, which came out less than a year ago? Is it ever going to occur to Ubi that we've all played this game already?

Some people have iPhones or iPod touches. Some people will get 3DSs. Some people who have iPhones or iPod touches will get 3DSs and some of them will not. Some of the people who will get 3DSs will already have iPhones or iPod touches and some of them will not. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for anyone to complain about a new port of a Rayman game. Why do you think that a 3DS version should not be released within a year of the iOS version? That makes no sense. I suppose you think the PS3 version of BioShock should never have been made, because the Xbox 360 version ‘came out less than a year ago’. It is presumptuous and inaccurate to claim that ‘we’ve all played this game already’; I would like to gently remind you that there are six or seven billion people who have not. This version is not being made for hardcore Rayman fans who have already played half a dozen version of this game. It is being made for normal people. It is not ‘redundant’.

But am I the only one who's bugged that Rayman ports are never advertised as Rayman ports? The trailers are always like "Help Rayman fight against the evil Robot-Pirates!" and all that nonsense. How come they never say stuff like "Relive Rayman's second adventure for the third time on the iPhone and iTouch"? Whatever, just a minor nitpick.

Why on earth would this trouble you? They are advertisements. These taglines should emphasise the story and the gameplay, not the game’s chronological position in the series or the number of times it has previously been ported to different platforms.

They might as we have porter Rayman 2 Revolution. The 3Ds is a decent amount more powerful than the PS2, so there's no reason why not and it would look twice as good as this "upgraded" Dreamcast version. Revolution has the Minisaurus Plains, the best hub ever. It had upgradeable power-ups you could buy, it had more levels, it has higher poly and more detailed models and better animations and better textures and looks wAAAAAYyYYYyyYYY betterthan any upgraded Dreamcast version could.

All of this is very wrong. The Great Escape is a substantially better game than Revolution, especially when we’re talking about the superior Dreamcast version. No, there is absolutely no logic behind your notion that an upgraded Revolution would look better than an upgraded Dreamcast version. The Minisaurus Plains is a boring and unnecessary distraction added to pad out the game by forcing the player to walk from level to level; the Hall of Doors is ‘the best hub ever’. Upgradeable power-ups were a bad idea; such shoehorning of half-arsed RPG elements detracted quite a bit from the game’s platforming purity and simplicity, giving us another annoying task which we must perform repeatedly whenever we reach a certain number of Lums, when it would be far better to simply receive our powers when we need them, as we did in the original version. The added levels were mediocre (especially when compared to the original ones), and someone in the Revolution team also had the bright idea to arbitrarily chop up the original game’s levels and rearrange bits and pieces of them at random. Many of Revolution’s models and textures were of a noticeably lower quality than those of the original; it looked as if they had been blown up and interpolated. Look at some comparative screenshots. The lighting and colours were also quite crap; the Dreamcast version’s excellent lighting system was completely removed and the colours all manage to look simultaneously washed-out and garish. Not to mention the awful voice acting. So yes, I would consider Revolution to be a moderate failure and would be glad to see it buried and forgotten forever in favour of the true, original version of the game.

The boxart for Rayman 3D is mediocre. It’s the top half of Rayman striking a pose; not impressive. They should have used the PC version’s boxart instead.

[Janic]

The boxart for Rayman 3D is mediocre. It’s the top half of Rayman striking a pose; not impressive. They should have used the PC version’s boxart instead.

I know, I also think the 3D in the logo is just wrong. The font doesn't like like the font in the Rayman logo. It's just ugly.

[Cairnie]

Rayman 3D boxart:



+ Screenshots:

http://3dsconnect.com/2011/01/19/rayman ... #more-3456

Marge groan

[Haruka]

Though, I gotta ask..Am I the only person who had no issues with the controls in Rayman DS? Or are you all only refering to the touchscreen controls? I've used them once and I remember them being very awkward..

You're not the only one. The controls had slow-response and it was terrible making Rayman running in diagonal directions. Everyone who plays the game in the original DS, gets the left thumb hurted due to fadigue. However the damage in the finger is reduced if you play the game in a DS Lite (Probabily in DSi and XL aswell).

The touchscreen is even worse than the one shown in beta pictures. It is totally useless for right handed people. If we need the right buttons to attack, how can we perform them if the right hand is used for the touchscreen? It is only useful for left-handers but what about the right-handed? Ubisoft could have created a button map swapping option to solve the problem, but no.

Rayman 3D boxart:



+ Screenshots:

http://3dsconnect.com/2011/01/19/rayman ... #more-3456

Not bad, but they could have used the original picture of Rayman 2: The Great Escape. But maybe it makes sense since this was the PAL Dreamcast version's box art:

I'm actually surprised. I thought they were going to take the N64 version, but this being the Dreamcast version with improved graphics (I love the improved lighting, especially in the Prison Ship level) and in 3D makes it a buy (...) I hope they fix the problem with the pirate icon in the Bayou screenshot though.
I also like how in the Prison Ship and Whale Bay screenshots, there appears to be a depth of field effect.
Oh yeah and the boxart is okay I guess. At least they used the Rayman 2 model for this one, instead of the R3 one like for Rayman DS.

Join the club. I was really convinced that it would be an improved version of the N64 game. The fact that the last port was done for iPhone/iPod Touch and it was from SEGA Dreamcast (with chopped details) it really made me not thinking that it would be another Dreamcast port again.

I can't wait for watching the game in detail. If they decide to keep the original content, then this must be a buy for 3DS owners. I was looking again to the screenshots and I was with the feeling that the powder keg looked more rounder. I checked my Rayman 2: The Great Escape (Dreamcast version) video to compare and in fact the powder keg in the 3DS is rounder than the original model, which was particularly hexagonal. This detail makes me get a certain faith for this version being a candidate for the best Rayman 2 version ever. I do hope they keep the Globox Village. Adding the VMU screens into the touchscreen would be perfect.

Yes, the R3-style Rayman in Rayman DS cover didn't make quite sense at all.

[Sabertooth]

It's bad.

[Adsolution]

All of this is very wrong. The Great Escape is a substantially better game than Revolution, especially when we’re talking about the superior Dreamcast version. No, there is absolutely no logic behind your notion that an upgraded Revolution would look better than an upgraded Dreamcast version. The Minisaurus Plains is a boring and unnecessary distraction added to pad out the game by forcing the player to walk from level to level; the Hall of Doors is ‘the best hub ever’. Upgradeable power-ups were a bad idea; such shoehorning of half-arsed RPG elements detracted quite a bit from the game’s platforming purity and simplicity, giving us another annoying task which we must perform repeatedly whenever we reach a certain number of Lums, when it would be far better to simply receive our powers when we need them, as we did in the original version. The added levels were mediocre (especially when compared to the original ones), and someone in the Revolution team also had the bright idea to arbitrarily chop up the original game’s levels and rearrange bits and pieces of them at random. Many of Revolution’s models and textures were of a noticeably lower quality than those of the original; it looked as if they had been blown up and interpolated. Look at some comparative screenshots. The lighting and colours were also quite crap; the Dreamcast version’s excellent lighting system was completely removed and the colours all manage to look simultaneously washed-out and garish. Not to mention the awful voice acting. So yes, I would consider Revolution to be a moderate failure and would be glad to see it buried and forgotten forever in favour of the true, original version of the game.

What the fuck do you speak of, sir? You must have a short attention...



...span. The Minisaurus Plains meshed the game together to feel like a real adventurous and progressive world, not a bunch of random levels unrelated to each other. Also the powerups and story mods made the game feel much more interesting. It gave you something to look forward to other than completing the game in a straight line. It lets you make choices on how you want to play the game.

Also are you saying that this:

(Dreamcast)


Looks better than this?

(Revolution)



Sure the Dreamcast version has more "blendy/realistic" lighting, although Revolution was edited to be more fresh, colourful, and cartoony, which it did great, whilst keeping the mysteriously magical feel. Also notice other than the lighting difference, everything is much higher quality in the PS2. Do I see full dynamic shadows being cast in Revolution? Yes, but in the Dreamcast it's merely a circle half the size of Rayman himself. Finally look at the models. How could you say lower-quality? Because that's entirely incorrect. If you look, you can clearly see that Rayman in the Dreamcast is using the same model it did for the PC version. If you look at Revolution, he's much higher poly and even has extra detail such as actual extruding white bumps on his shoes:





Dreamcast:


PS2 (Revolution):

And then there's the environment. As far as I can see, Revolution turned those 2D mushrooms 3D, and there's much more to see and interact with.

[Sabertooth]

not the game’s chronological position in the series

That wasn't even a specific request. I don't give a shit whether it says "Relive Rayman's struggle with the Robot-Pirates" or "Remember the second game in the Rayman series? That is this" for all I care. Just some sort of implication that the game isn't brand-new. Hell, nothing about "Relive Rayman's second adventure for the third time on the iPhone and iTouch" was supposed to be specific.

...or the number of times it has previously been ported to different platforms.

That part was sarcasm, but fine, I'll edit it to make it more obvious.

[spiraldoor]

I can't wait for watching the game in detail. If they decide to keep the original content, then this must be a buy for 3DS owners. I was looking again to the screenshots and I was with the feeling that the powder keg looked more rounder. I checked my Rayman 2: The Great Escape (Dreamcast version) video to compare and in fact the powder keg in the 3DS is rounder than the original model, which was particularly hexagonal. This detail makes me get a certain faith for this version being a candidate for the best Rayman 2 version ever. I do hope they keep the Globox Village. Adding the VMU screens into the touchscreen would be perfect.

I actually sort of liked the weird-looking hexagonal keg. The new one looks rather... fat. Chunky. Bulbous. Perhaps it will grow on me. I hope the rest of the graphical improvements are more worthwhile – turning the game’s floating barrels into actual barrels would be a good place to start. In the current versions, those floating barrels just cut off below the water... and it’s embarrassingly noticeable, as a great deal of the game’s water is transparent.

What the fuck do you speak of, sir? You must have a short attention span. The Minisaurus Plains meshed the game together to feel like a real adventurous and progressive world, not a bunch of random levels unrelated to each other. Also the powerups and story mods made the game feel much more interesting. It gave you something to look forward to other than completing the game in a straight line. It lets you make choices on how you want to play the game.

Then I guess you have such a terrific ‘attention span’ that you don’t mind wandering endlessly through the confusing, superfluous, buggy, poorly-designed, visually dull collection of fields with which the Revolution team replaced the Hall of Doors created by Michel Ancel and his colleagues.

Desiring the minimisation of the addition of crappy filler levels to pad out the gameplay is called having good taste in games, not ‘a short attention span’. It’s hard not to be ‘distracted’ by these stupid additions when the game literally forces you to play through them.

The Minisaurus Plain sadly sucked. To see the magical and glorious Hall of Doors whose magnificence formed the core of the original version replaced with such a shoddy filler field was immensely annoying. It did not ‘mesh the game together’; all the levels had been connected neatly, tidily and conveniently with the Hall of Doors (with the exception of the inter-level passageways, which were stupidly removed from Revolution). The Revolution team replaced these perfectly harmonious and serviceable connections with what frankly amounts to a mess; in their attempts to form ‘a real adventurous and progressive world’, they switched the perfect level selection system of the original version and its excellent predecessor with a sprawling, intolerably tedious collection of busywork nonsense which makes the game much less enjoyable on the whole. Your deliberate use of phrases with positive and negative connotations to support your argument amuses me: ‘a real adventurous and progressive world’ and ‘a bunch of random levels unrelated to each other’. You sure are trying your best to make the Front sound good! A bunch of random levels, how terrible! Unrelated to each other? Gasp!

The new power-ups added in Revolution were a bad idea. Rayman should receive his powers automatically as he progresses through the game, not have to go to some clichéd Teensie shop and ‘spend’ Yellow Lums on powers which he should have simply been given. I guess they felt like they had to give the player some further motivation to collect them, seeing as how they removed the Knowledge of the World and all.

The modifications made to the story were stupid. The game clearly wasn’t written with such silly explanations for why Rayman does such-and-such in mind. For example, the idea of making the Precipice into a mission to destroy a ‘generator’ and its half-arsed Ninja Henchman guardian to access the Pirate Factory is simply too convoluted for the game’s purposes. Why not just let us go to the next bloody level already instead of sending us on irritating little detours all the time?

It lets us make choices on how we want to play the game? Really? I don’t recall anything of the sort. Would you like to give me a few examples and explain how these ‘choices’ benefited your enjoyment of the game?

Also are you saying that this:

(Dreamcast)

Looks better than this?

(Revolution)

Yes, the Dreamcast screenshot looks natural and is far more comfortable to look at than the garish, gaudy, eye-smearing colours of Revolution. But these two screenshots are of hideously low quality. Find some better ones; preferably unbiased. It’s clear that you were trying to post a bad Dreamcast screenshot and a good Revolution one, although that didn’t work out too well.

Sure the Dreamcast version has more "blendy/realistic" lighting, although Revolution was edited to be more fresh, colourful, and cartoony, which it did great, whilst keeping the mysteriously magical feel. Also notice other than the lighting difference, everything is much higher quality in the PS2. Do I see full dynamic shadows being cast in Revolution? Yes, but in the Dreamcast it's merely a circle half the size of Rayman himself. Finally look at the models. How could you say lower-quality? Because that's entirely incorrect. If you look, you can clearly see that Rayman in the Dreamcast is using the same model it did for the PC version. If you look at Revolution, he's much higher poly and even has extra detail such as actual extruding white bumps on his shoes:

‘Fresh, colourful and cartoony’? Revolution was garish, gaudy, washed-out and ugly. The changes did harm the atmosphere – a lot. The Dreamcast version (have you actually played it?) has a fantastic slider with which you can change the lighting from a garish Revolution level to a dark shadowy level, and everything in between. The fact that the Dreamcast version is superior in this area simply isn’t disputable.

I honestly don’t give a crap if the white parts of Rayman’s shoes extrude slightly or if he now has the Holy Grail that is the dynamic shadow – perhaps I didn’t notice that Rayman was of a ‘much higher quality’ because of how generally ugly Revolution looks. These imperceptible ‘improvements’ are hardly worth mentioning in the face of the many dreadful removals and screw-ups performed by the PS2 team.

Again, you’re posting really low-quality images. The could be from the N64 version for all I know. They’re not suitable for a debate regarding the subtle and not-so-subtle differences in the versions’ aesthetics – especially when we take into account the devastating fact that the Dreamcast version has double the framerate of Revolution. Besides, that screenshot of the Cave of Bad Dreams from the Dreamcast version looks way better than the Revolution one.

And then there's the environment. As far as I can see, Revolution turned those 2D mushrooms 3D, and there's much more to see and interact with.

ZOMG MUSCHREWMNS. I liked the cell-shaded look of the old mushrooms better than the chunky 3D ones added in Revolution. I’m not sure what you mean when you say ‘there’s much more to see and interact with’; are you referring to the Rain Dance? Never mind.

I strongly recommend that you read some of Phoenixan’s posts regarding the matter of Revolution and the Dreamcast version. Perhaps they will succeed in opening your eyes where I have not. I once argued in favour of the side on which you currently find yourself... I wanted to like Revolution so badly that I managed to deceive myself into thinking that it was an improvement for quite a long time, but I eventually saw sense.

That wasn't even a specific request. I don't give a shit whether it says "Relive Rayman's struggle with the Robot-Pirates" or "Remember the second game in the Rayman series? That is this" for all I care. Just some sort of implication that the game isn't brand-new. Hell, nothing about "Relive Rayman's second adventure for the third time on the iPhone and iTouch" was supposed to be specific.

But why do you even care how the press release is worded? I don’t understand why it matters so much to you that an acknowledgement is made that the game is a port. Anyone who wants more information on Rayman 3D can easily find it, so what’s the problem? Besides, the press release specifically mentions that the game is based on the Dreamcast version of Rayman 2.

[iHeckler9]

It's bad.

Agreed.

>Bad stuff about Revolution<

That, good sir, is utter b*****t.

[spiraldoor]

>Bad stuff about Revolution<

That, good sir, is utter b*****t.

If you have literally nothing but unsubstantiated insults to contribute, I suggest that you keep your small, pre-pubescent hands off our Rayman 3D thread.

[DesLife]

I'm not sure your contributions are better. They're subjective opinions that you present as facts.

[spiraldoor]

Except for the fact that I gave long and detailed explanations and justifications for my views, whereas iHeckler just insulted me and fucked off.

[Droolie]

I personally think Revolution was pretty good. Some of the changes they made were nice, with the extra boss battles and all. I also liked the trees in the woods of light, etc. Agreeing with spiral though, some of the 3D was pretty bad and there were some horrible glitches in it.
But it was only good for the graphics and the additional areas... because the graphics were better and the additional areas were unique to Revolution and being a Rayman fan, I love every extra bit of Rayman I can get.

Seeing them as separate games though, things are quite different.
Rayman 2 was a perfect game for its time, they couldn't put the extra detail they put in Revolution in it yet.
Sure, Rayman Revolution upgraded the graphics, but only a small bit. They could've done so much more with the PS2.
The world they added, the Minisaurus plains, was a nice concept of course, and some parts were well done, like the area with the robo-pirates taking away the globox babies (which was apparently just for fun since there was no reward linked to it). I also liked the pirate fortress where Biditank was.
This way, they made the game fit the "army resistance" atmosphere from the story in the manual more.
The thing is that in order to do this, they had to sacrifice the Hall of Doors, which practically defines the Rayman 2 atmosphere in my opinion. And, in my opinion, the atmosphere is what made Rayman 2 stand out between all the other Rayman games. It's why I prefer Rayman 2 to 1 and 3.

Therefore, Rayman 2 is the better game IMO, and I'm glad that they decided to port that instead of Revolution.
However, what I would like to see is Rayman 2 with some of the graphical enhancements from Revolution, or just a Rayman 2 HD remake that remains faithful to the overall atmosphere.