Rayman Pirate-Community

Which emulator are we talking about here? And what does this crash dump look like?

The emulator is PSXFin. Here's a YouTube video with a guy recording that crash dump. In my case that error occurs while I'm playing, not while starting the game. I even tried using save states, but it was useless. Maybe I should just look for another emulator.

Gotcha. I recommend PCSX, it used to work pretty well for me!

Well... you've seen angry Mr Stone, now here's annoyed Mr Sax.

Nice! He seems hard, but it looks like it might be possible to defeat him, unlike angry Mr Stone?

Just your average Mr Dark battle...

I'm back with some more unused Rayman 1 content, this time some unused levels I found recently!


I also haven't forgotten about updating the RayWiki article for Rayman 1's early production. Problem is I keep finding new things As posted on my Twitter I recently also found unused worldmap data in a demo which I then recreated: This one is very interesting, going for a less linear approach! I like this quite a bit more than the final game if I'm being honest. It was always weird how the game started off non-linear and then have levels be played one after another. And then the weird drop from Mr Stone to Eraser Plains and the levels being in a weird zig-zag pattern from Picture City onwards etc.
There are other interesting things too, like the boss of Picture City appearing to be Pirate Mama judging by the map. Maybe Eat at Joe's was also split between multiple levels here? There's code in the final game which suggest Joe's quest was originally several levels and the final beach screen was where you'd return to once you turned on the lights. As an example there's code in the final game for not spawning Joe in the beach if you haven't turned on the lights, which is obviously not possible...
And then there's the mysterious present, now level 7-1! All evidence leads to this being the Breakout minigame.

There are also other random things I found such as seeds would originally be limited, having you pick up a seed to then allow you to plant 3 plants with it. These demos were also further along than we thought, with a lot of object types having been implemented. There's even code for an early Space Mama boss fight where she doesn't have her washing machine. I wonder how that looked?

This is amazing! I can't believe how complete the game is, especially since the only other demo I've seen that plays like that one is the really rough Jaguar one with the non-functional Moskito boss!

So for the bonus levels, you had to have a certain number of Electoons to get in, then you had to collect a certain number of Electoons in the level to get back out at the end? Seems challenging enough!

The non-linearity is very interesting, as is the linkage of the Tentacle to the platform (can that be reenabled in the final game?). I'm guessing those interesting features would have caused even more heartache to young players who found the final game astronomically difficult though!

It looks like the Moskito boss holds the giant spiky berry a lot higher than usual, so maybe you don't even have to duck? I wonder what the point was then… It's a bit weird that he bursts into Electoons at the end. I guess at some point they decided to swap that for a more interesting sequence where he carries Rayman to Band Land, which is basically what we got in the final game, albeit with a bit of confusion about who's who and where…

PluMGMK wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:13 pm So for the bonus levels, you had to have a certain number of Electoons to get in, then you had to collect a certain number of Electoons in the level to get back out at the end? Seems challenging enough!

Not sure. The game right now doesn't check your electoons count. The Magician type that brings you back also uses a different object type, so hopefully that would have been free!

PluMGMK wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:13 pm The non-linearity is very interesting, as is the linkage of the Tentacle to the platform (can that be reenabled in the final game?). I'm guessing those interesting features would have caused even more heartache to young players who found the final game astronomically difficult though!

The linking can indeed be enabled! I made a short video on Twitter you can view here. Probably a good thing they removed it though as it would have made that part even harder and confusing.

PluMGMK wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:13 pm It looks like the Moskito boss holds the giant spiky berry a lot higher than usual, so maybe you don't even have to duck? I wonder what the point was then… It's a bit weird that he bursts into Electoons at the end. I guess at some point they decided to swap that for a more interesting sequence where he carries Rayman to Band Land, which is basically what we got in the final game, albeit with a bit of confusion about who's who and where…

Since the level map is custom it could be that you were supposed to be one or so tile units higher up in the fight. Maybe also a bit to the right since when Moskito comes charging from the sides he is more visible from one side than the other.
I also found the electoon thing interesting. I had to make an edit in the exe for it to show though. By default the game will try and load Band Land level 1 as soon as you deal the final damage to the boss. Since that level doesn't exist the game just crashes then. So I disabled it loading that level and basically just let the game soft-lock there, but that allows the full boss defeat animation to play out.

RayCarrot wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:55 pm

PluMGMK wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:13 pm So for the bonus levels, you had to have a certain number of Electoons to get in, then you had to collect a certain number of Electoons in the level to get back out at the end? Seems challenging enough!

Not sure. The game right now doesn't check your electoons count. The Magician type that brings you back also uses a different object type, so hopefully that would have been free!

I see. Maybe it should have Rayman giving the scroll back to the Magician but they hadn't made that animation yet!

RayCarrot wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:55 pm

PluMGMK wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:13 pm The non-linearity is very interesting, as is the linkage of the Tentacle to the platform (can that be reenabled in the final game?). I'm guessing those interesting features would have caused even more heartache to young players who found the final game astronomically difficult though!

The linking can indeed be enabled! I made a short video on Twitter you can view here. Probably a good thing they removed it though as it would have made that part even harder and confusing.

Nice! It does explain why that's the only place in the game (or even the series?) where you have a rising little waterlily, and why the fixed platforms render it unnecessary!

RayCarrot wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:55 pm

PluMGMK wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:13 pm It looks like the Moskito boss holds the giant spiky berry a lot higher than usual, so maybe you don't even have to duck? I wonder what the point was then… It's a bit weird that he bursts into Electoons at the end. I guess at some point they decided to swap that for a more interesting sequence where he carries Rayman to Band Land, which is basically what we got in the final game, albeit with a bit of confusion about who's who and where…

Since the level map is custom it could be that you were supposed to be one or so tile units higher up in the fight. Maybe also a bit to the right since when Moskito comes charging from the sides he is more visible from one side than the other.

Ah yes, of course! You can also see his standard sprite on the left of the screen just before he comes from that direction with a giant fruit. I thought it was unfinishedness, but I suppose it could be that the fight is supposed to be a bit to the right!

RayCarrot wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:55 pmI also found the electoon thing interesting. I had to make an edit in the exe for it to show though. By default the game will try and load Band Land level 1 as soon as you deal the final damage to the boss. Since that level doesn't exist the game just crashes then. So I disabled it loading that level and basically just let the game soft-lock there, but that allows the full boss defeat animation to play out.

Interesting… Maybe they just gave him the same death sequence as Rayman as a placeholder then, since it wasn't supposed to be seen on-screen…

Chacanger wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:55 pm Just your average Mr Dark battle...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a67ieUq7f8

Nice! But maybe it would be easier with other transformations, such as the Bzzit-Space Mama hybrids? Not sure if that's even possible though.

RayCarrot wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:48 pm I'm back with some more unused Rayman 1 content, this time some unused levels I found recently!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A42Q20S6myM

Too bad the tiles are missing, but the behavior or some of the events is very interesting in itself. I noticed the red swinging plums as well, I don't think we've seen them before?

Hunchman801 wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 7:20 pm

Chacanger wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:55 pm Just your average Mr Dark battle...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a67ieUq7f8

Nice! But maybe it would be easier with other transformations, such as the Bzzit-Space Mama hybrids? Not sure if that's even possible though.

Well it's a good job I'm not including that in the battle. However there will be some other changes to it.

Here are some more fun experiments around with game objects...

This is so cool, and really functional this time! Hope some of this ends up in the "hard" version of Rayman 1.

That's amazing! It's great to see that not all bosses are restricted to certain positions in the map, like Moskito!

RayCarrot wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:48 pm I'm back with some more unused Rayman 1 content, this time some unused levels I found recently!

Wow, that's awesome. Good observation about the electoons vs tings handed to the magician. I bet there were a lot of frustrated 90s kids who would have preferred electoons to stay a simple currency rather than the "find all cages or no game ending for you!" approach taken by the final game.

The "bonus" levels don't really feel shorter or special in any way. Just normal levels accessed outside the main progression. Glad the idea got polished in the final game.

And nice to see the familiar [TAB];OVERAY code. Even nicer the fact that you can toggle it on and off with a single button press. Makes it much easier to avoid death traps while testing. Wish they had kept this single-button mechanic in the final PC builds!

RayCarrot wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:48 pm This one is very interesting, going for a less linear approach! I like this quite a bit more than the final game if I'm being honest. It was always weird how the game started off non-linear and then have levels be played one after another. And then the weird drop from Mr Stone to Eraser Plains and the levels being in a weird zig-zag pattern from Picture City onwards etc.

I got the same vibe in Rayman 2. The earlier levels had a lot more backtracking built-in (revisiting the Fairy Glade, going back to the Cave of Bad Dreams before finishing Menhir Hills) as well as major "optional" parts within the levels (Sanctuary of Stone and Fire). And as the game progressed it got more and more linear.

I suppose that as the project draws to an end and deadlines get tighter, properly planning and implement non-linear designs gets harder, and at some point everyone just works as hard as they can to finish.

Like for example - in Rayman 1 you get the running power at Mr. Stone's Peaks. If Picture City and beyond were accessible before completing that, then every level there would have to be playtested to make sure it is at least completable without it. And goodies would have to be placed in strategic spots not accessible without running, to justify acquisition of this power.

Chacanger wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:06 am

Hunchman801 wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 7:20 pm

Chacanger wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:55 pm Just your average Mr Dark battle...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a67ieUq7f8

Nice! But maybe it would be easier with other transformations, such as the Bzzit-Space Mama hybrids? Not sure if that's even possible though.

Well it's a good job I'm not including that in the battle. However there will be some other changes to it.

Here are some more fun experiments around with game objects...

Nice found, it's really fun to see that these bosses can work in other maps than their initial ones.

dr_st wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:22 pm I got the same vibe in Rayman 2. The earlier levels had a lot more backtracking built-in (revisiting the Fairy Glade, going back to the Cave of Bad Dreams before finishing Menhir Hills) as well as major "optional" parts within the levels (Sanctuary of Stone and Fire). And as the game progressed it got more and more linear.

I suppose that as the project draws to an end and deadlines get tighter, properly planning and implement non-linear designs gets harder, and at some point everyone just works as hard as they can to finish.

Like for example - in Rayman 1 you get the running power at Mr. Stone's Peaks. If Picture City and beyond were accessible before completing that, then every level there would have to be playtested to make sure it is at least completable without it. And goodies would have to be placed in strategic spots not accessible without running, to justify acquisition of this power.

And the connection between the Fairy Glade and the Echoing Caves in the Hall of Doors! This is probably why it never saw the light of day.

dr_st wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:22 pm I got the same vibe in Rayman 2. The earlier levels had a lot more backtracking built-in (revisiting the Fairy Glade, going back to the Cave of Bad Dreams before finishing Menhir Hills) as well as major "optional" parts within the levels (Sanctuary of Stone and Fire). And as the game progressed it got more and more linear.

Good point. I remember sucking at the non-linear bits as a kid though

dr_st wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:22 pmI suppose that as the project draws to an end and deadlines get tighter, properly planning and implement non-linear designs gets harder, and at some point everyone just works as hard as they can to finish.

Even with a linear structure, you can feel the wheels coming off by the end all right. There's the room in the Tomb of the Ancients that has been speculated to originally have been designed for a boss fight (rather than just crossing on raising platforms). And then the Iron Mountains is just three leftover level segments stitched together (made clear by the filenames). I even remember the very first time I played it, I couldn't take it seriously as a level because it just felt like a mashup of what had come before (but that was before I got to the last segment with Uglette and the warship!). The lack of a boss fight in that level makes sense lore-wise, but again may (also) be a case of rushing to finish…

EDIT: Not to mention the wasted opportunity for non-linearity with the "off-world" levels at the end. It seems at one point they had planned that once you finished the Prison Ship, if you went back to the beginning of the Hall of Doors you'd find a new portal named "Surprise! The Pirates' World" (going to a map named "Astro_20", in the same "Astro" sequence as the Flying Shell segments). I always felt that there should be something like that in there, since the game both began and ended on the Prison Ship (and I convinced myself that the stormy desolate area at the end of the Hall of Doors was the same place you see at the beginning of the intro cutscene – not sure if that's true…). So I was really happy when I found the strings referring to that extra portal in the language file, and even happier when Robin made the portal actually appear in the game! But alas, it wasn't to be…

dr_st wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:22 pmLike for example - in Rayman 1 you get the running power at Mr. Stone's Peaks. If Picture City and beyond were accessible before completing that, then every level there would have to be playtested to make sure it is at least completable without it. And goodies would have to be placed in strategic spots not accessible without running, to justify acquisition of this power.

That's a pretty solvable problem though, they could have just had a really large gap at the beginning of Picture City to make sure you couldn't get to the rest of the levels without the running power. That's what they did in the final game with the Blue Mountains – it opens with a Flying Ring so you can't make much progress there until you beat Moskito's Nest.

RayCarrot wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:48 pm There are other interesting things too, like the boss of Picture City appearing to be Pirate Mama judging by the map.

Thinking about this again, I realized that in the PC version, Pirate Mama's theme is used for the boss music in Picture City, while Space Mama's theme is part of the non-boss level mix. Maybe that's also a hint that the order was swapped at some point? I don't know how it would have worked with Pirate Mama having twelve hitpoints and Space Mama having only six, but then maybe that's why she didn't have a washing machine, as you also mentioned…

RayCarrot wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:48 pmMaybe Eat at Joe's was also split between multiple levels here? There's code in the final game which suggest Joe's quest was originally several levels and the final beach screen was where you'd return to once you turned on the lights. As an example there's code in the final game for not spawning Joe in the beach if you haven't turned on the lights, which is obviously not possible...

Well, I've always thought Eat at Joe's was too long and tricky, so that would have been nice! I guess the fact that they crammed it all into one level again speaks to what dr_st said about non-linear stuff being difficult to get right, with all the edge-cases and corner-cases…

I also like the way the Candy levels are split up. It looks like they planned one segment per level? I guess that would have made a bit more sense with the non-frying-pan design from the Jaguar version. It's also nice that it clearly shows that only the boss fight actually takes place in the Château, while the rest of the levels are in the surrounding candy landscape!

I wonder if they toyed with having Moskito fly you to the Breakout game after the final fight in Moskito's Nest…

EDIT: One more thing…

dr_st wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:22 pm And nice to see the familiar [TAB];OVERAY code. Even nicer the fact that you can toggle it on and off with a single button press. Makes it much easier to avoid death traps while testing. Wish they had kept this single-button mechanic in the final PC builds!

I guess they kinda did, since in Designer you can just use the C key when testing your own levels

Good Idea Early Demo Rayman how unused level did you find

I've always found it interesting how two of the level parts of Eat at Joe's are essentially the same map, but you don't really see that while playing the game, so the original intent must have been something a little more ambitious.