RayTunes - The Definitive Rayman Music Archive

[Robbert Ambrose]

I have to ask: What tools or applications were/are used to extract the Soundtrack from the Rayman games? Specifically Rayman 3, and What possibilities are there for me to obtain those tools?

Thanks in advance,

Robbert Ambrose.

[iHeckler9]

Presumably there's a universal one for each gaming system, like a ripper exclusively for PS2 or N64.

[Droolie]

I have to ask: What tools or applications were/are used to extract the Soundtrack from the Rayman games? Specifically Rayman 3, and What possibilities are there for me to obtain those tools?

Thanks in advance,

Robbert Ambrose.

I reverse-engineered the format and wrote the extraction tools for Rayman 3 and Rayman M/Arena myself (and still have to finetune them for versions other than GC and PS2). The tools are far from finished or usable for anyone who doesn't know the process so they probably won't be posted here until I finish my new Rayman 3 rip. They extract files playable with VGMStream, a great program you can use to convert them as well.

If you don't need the filenames, you can just use PS2 ADPCM scanning tools like Cube Media Player on the PS2 data.hst file. But that can be quite a bother because the files are segmented, and especially with music like the Teensie highway/hoverboard tune (which is segmented into pieces that are sometimes shorter than half a second!), it can be quite an ordeal to put them back together again.

[Robbert Ambrose]

I reverse-engineered the format and wrote the extraction tools for Rayman 3 and Rayman M/Arena myself (and still have to finetune them for versions other than GC and PS2). The tools are far from finished or usable for anyone who doesn't know the process so they probably won't be posted here until I finish my new Rayman 3 rip. They extract files playable with VGMStream, a great program you can use to convert them as well.

If you don't need the filenames, you can just use PS2 ADPCM scanning tools like Cube Media Player on the PS2 data.hst file. But that can be quite a bother because the files are segmented, and especially with music like the Teensie highway/hoverboard tune (which is segmented into pieces that are sometimes shorter than half a second!), it can be quite an ordeal to put them back together again.

Thanks for the reply!

I see, I've done some preliminary research myself and I do have some experience with programming file extensions, being an freetime gamedesigner. I am however far from an expert and I have no familiarity whatsoever with software that's more then a decade old. I will take in mind your suggestions and perhaps I will take the time to do the work myself, but I suspect by then you will have finished your updaded Rayman 3 soundtrack. If it doesn't bother you I would like to ask whether you'd also be able to extract Rayman 3's ambient sounds along side the soundtrack when the time comes.

Once again, thanks.

Robbert Ambrose

[Droolie]

Thanks for the reply!

I see, I've done some preliminary research myself and I do have some experience with programming file extensions, being an freetime gamedesigner. I am however far from an expert and I have no familiarity whatsoever with software that's more then a decade old. I will take in mind your suggestions and perhaps I will take the time to do the work myself, but I suspect by then you will have finished your updaded Rayman 3 soundtrack. If it doesn't bother you I would like to ask whether you'd also be able to extract Rayman 3's ambient sounds along side the soundtrack when the time comes.

Once again, thanks.

Robbert Ambrose

I'm very sorry for being about half a year late with this reply, but I still thought you might find this interesting. I released the tools I'm using to extract the Rayman 3 and Arena audio from the PS2 and Gamecube versions today. I spent a excruciatingly long time on getting these tools working correctly for the PS2 version while there was only a simple error in my script. This is why the R3 rip still isn't out yet. Anyway, you can find the tools here:

Code: Select all

https://mega.co.nz/#!adkz1DhZ!0hgPonREMdBnyb97dY5FEBqK905EPOD5Pl_RhdHzU-Q

I spent some time to write a readme so people should be able to use the tools, if they have Java 7 installed (if you don't, you can get it here). Let me know if there are any problems.

For others who might be looking to use segments of music to make remixes (I'm looking at AniCator especially), I now have the music segments of the PS2 version and the beta demo:
PS2:

Code: Select all

https://mega.co.nz/#!jU1jEKIK!Z9AwhAB-rb17Bh5e-7t_g6ScUkOaGXPxTFAa4PjZPHI

PS2 beta demo:

Code: Select all

https://mega.co.nz/#!HJlUzCbA!hJKDqTaPNLFEJMXX3uXE1rVNNQ6s8IuEFYGiAiTmehs

Gamecube:

Code: Select all

https://mega.co.nz/#!nR9iQKrY!AkgBr2Hq1FZpbgKKs60udlWNoNklKslgIFYMHYdoOAM

[Robbert Ambrose]

I'm very sorry for being about half a year late with this reply, but I still thought you might find this interesting. I released the tools I'm using to extract the Rayman 3 and Arena audio from the PS2 and Gamecube versions today. I spent a excruciatingly long time on getting these tools working correctly for the PS2 version while there was only a simple error in my script. This is why the R3 rip still isn't out yet. Anyway, you can find the tools here:

Code: Select all

https://mega.co.nz/#!adkz1DhZ!0hgPonREMdBnyb97dY5FEBqK905EPOD5Pl_RhdHzU-Q

I spent some time to write a readme so people should be able to use the tools, if they have Java 7 installed (if you don't, you can get it here). Let me know if there are any problems.

For others who might be looking to use segments of music to make remixes (I'm looking at AniCator especially), I now have the music segments of the PS2 version and the beta demo:
PS2:

Code: Select all

https://mega.co.nz/#!jU1jEKIK!Z9AwhAB-rb17Bh5e-7t_g6ScUkOaGXPxTFAa4PjZPHI

PS2 beta demo:

Code: Select all

https://mega.co.nz/#!HJlUzCbA!hJKDqTaPNLFEJMXX3uXE1rVNNQ6s8IuEFYGiAiTmehs

Gamecube:

Code: Select all

https://mega.co.nz/#!nR9iQKrY!AkgBr2Hq1FZpbgKKs60udlWNoNklKslgIFYMHYdoOAM

Thanks man,

I'm really looking forward to using these tools. I'll try to get them working in next few days and I hope to let you know what my results were.

Robbert Ambrose

[Robbert Ambrose]

Hey There,

Just to let you know: I opened the readme and I saw that step 2 of extraction instructions seems to be missing.

Robbert Ambrose

[Droolie]

Hey There,

Just to let you know: I opened the readme and I saw that step 2 of extraction instructions seems to be missing.

Robbert Ambrose

Thanks for letting me know! I can't believe I looked over that. Step 2 is supposed to be just "Run Ray3.bat/RayArena.bat."
This line: "(When asked to create a folder by QuickBMS, type "y" and tap Enter to give your permission.)" was supposed to be after step 2 as well.
I hope the tools work for you!

[deton24]

Drolpiraat, great work with unpacking all segments.
Unfortunately, PCM 22050 Hz still gives bad quality.
I have confirmed information that PS3's Rayman 3 HD have 44 kHz music.
Just listen. Most of videos are in good quality.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 0FD09343A9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aupigy421PI#t=1415
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvW2OJwziO8#t=24
Difference is big.
Do you have some opportunity for unpacking music from PS3 version?
Inside, it's also segments - you can easly hear silence between parts of music, in pt. 1.
I can easily join segments together, in Foobar2000, just by placing them in the playlist, mark, and convert to wav/flac, losslessly.
It's not very difficult.
That version of Rayman 3 soundtrack would finally sounds great.
But watch out for Xbox 360 version. There is bad quality of all sound effects.
Cheers.

[Droolie]

Thanks for informing me about this - I have now looked through the PS3 version of Rayman 3 HD.
First, I got 4 segments from both PS2 and PS3 versions so you can compare: https://mega.co.nz/#!PUkzjIbK!n9JmVMc2e ... pc0C5fU__8

Here are my conclusions at first glance:
I've made some spectrograms and they do show an improvement over the original version, but only a tiny one. The maximum frequency is 16kHz, which means these tracks are 32kHz at best (still better than the original 22!). They are almost definitely remastered versions of the 22kHz segments and not reconverted versions from the (presumably) high-quality source of the music, as the spectrograms show a gap around the 11kHz marker.

Now, the question is which segments I'll use for the soundtrack. There advantages and disadvantages of using the PS3 version:

• Advantages: a slightly higher maximum frequency, better (at least I think so) stereo separation, a more "HD" feel overall. Noticeable in MC_TTGCagou003.
• Disadvantages: The silence is actually in the tracks in the PS3 version (and I hate that). Try looping both versions of MI_01MagicMain_00_ps3. You'll see what I mean. It sometimes even occurs in the middle of a segment, since they made the decision to join multiple segments together, and they did so poorly. :/
  Also, the files were saved in the worst way possible: encoded in Atrac3 with a 105kbps bitrate, worsened by the fact that the files were saved in 48kHz instead of their real frequency (32kHz). Atrac3 can also cause some parts to be under-emphasized or over-emphasized, also audible in MC_TTGCagou003_ps3 (unless that was the intention when they remastered it).

So which version do people here think I should use? Don't be alarmed by the amount of disadvantages versus advantages that I mentioned: it just took me longer to explain the disadvantages than the advantages. Please listen to the audio files and let me know your opinion.

[deton24]

I delete silence using Reaper DAW option, which has many customized settings for it. It's one of the best DAWs to this purpose. With my R2 rip it helped. Maybe it can handle R3 too.
But it'll be a lot of work on it. I can help since I have some experience in it.
Just share with all segments, and then we'll see what we can do.

PS3 quality compared to PS2 is precipice in my opinion. It's far more audible difference instead between PS2 and commonly known rip by Killy.
That's why I was interested in it.

And yes, there is few things that we can suspect that this version is remastered 22kHz version. I started to think about it, when some songs contain not equal quality with specific sound of some samples. And yes, 32kHz gives really almost exact quality with this files (but don't downsample it).
Maybe everything because they couldn't use 32kHz in this engine, or maybe it sounded worse during decoding, or maybe they just made it like that, because it was easier, or/and just to mislead devs ;>
Curiosity. My amotour, little screw up remaster of R3, after downsampling to 32kHz also doesn't change too much, maybe more that R3HD, but not too much.

Thank you for cooperation Drolpiraat. I owe you one.

[Manfred]

If the disadvantages are only making it a bit trickier to construct the final product, then I think the advantages are greater. If the disadvantages, however, affect sound quality, I'd say maybe better not to bother.

After listening those samples I'm not sure which I like more. Let's say the HD version — as better quality is always better quality.

[Adsolution]

As a test, I cut off everything above 11025 hz in the PS3 version to compare with the encoding quality of the PS2 version, and I can hardly tell a difference, I think whatever I may be hearing is just a slight difference in the mix. I'd definitely go with the PS3 versions for RayTunes. Regarding the silences, WavePad (tiny program, has a free trial, I'm sure you know about it) has a great feature (Edit -> Trim -> Auto Trim Silence) which is specifically made to remove the silence at the beginning and end you get when you convert to a lossy format), and once applied, they loop perfectly. If you want, I can help you with that too so we can get the 32khz soundtrack up sooner.

But I'm curious, how are they not re-bounced versions if they appear to have slightly different stereo mixing in areas? Could they have just applied imaging effects to the PS2 soundtrack? Additionally, how would they add frequencies that weren't there in the first place to come up with the 32khz soundtrack?

[deton24]

WavePad (tiny program, has a free trial, I'm sure you know about it) has a

great feature (Edit -> Trim -> Auto Trim Silence)

Mostly, automated mechanisms of detection not enough to properly detect as short ms

silence as there is. But we can try that. For special purposes Reaper is the best of

all what I tried to find.


And..
I don't know on it enough, and I always trying to convince
[he doesn't know, but he'd speak out] but

But I'm curious, how are they not re-bounced versions if they appear to have
slightly different stereo mixing in areas?

Because they're re-bounced. But maybe from 22kHz. I also thought about that it would
be some change in mix, so they would have all 22kHz samples to join again.

Could they have just applied imaging effects to the PS2 soundtrack?

Maybe it's one of the processing of remaster. Can you achieve similiar effect by only
imaging effects? So why it's sounds sometimes completly different - better?
And also some parts of songs, samples, are just proper, or just average.

Additionally, how would they add frequencies that weren't there in the first
place to come up with the 32khz soundtrack?

Because they're remastered.
Maybe it's this thing what I was saying again and again with remastering. Something
usefull have been added which is also audible, but not for everyone. That's why we
discuss about frequencies, but not just sound.

Sorry if it's piece of bullshits.

[Droolie]

Just share with all segments, and then we'll see what we can do.

I adapted my tools for the PS3 version today - that took quite a lot of bugfixing, but they work flawlessly. The segments are extracted, but I haven't had the time to properly convert them all yet. I'll try to upload an archive with all the segments tomorrow.

But I'm curious, how are they not re-bounced versions if they appear to have slightly different stereo mixing in areas? Could they have just applied imaging effects to the PS2 soundtrack? Additionally, how would they add frequencies that weren't there in the first place to come up with the 32khz soundtrack?

Both of those things are quite possible with a remaster from the 22kHz version, but I'm not so sure anymore if that's what they did for R3 HD.
Maybe the composers used 32kHz samples, and the PS3 version's audio is not remastered from the 22kHz version, but from the high(er) quality tracks. It's quite possible: I found out segments with more synth samples have more peaks above 16kHz (synths mostly aren't limited by low sample rates).

Either way, this is a fantastic find, deton24! I'm sorry I didn't believe you about R3 HD's music being higher quality in your previous thread, it seems I was too focused on the Xbox 360 version. I thought it would make sense to have remastered music in both HD versions, so I didn't think it was necessary to get the files from the PS3 version. Thanks for pointing out that the PS3 version sounded different!

[Adsolution]

Because they're remastered.
Maybe it's this thing what I was saying again and again with remastering. Something
usefull have been added which is also audible, but not for everyone. That's why we
discuss about frequencies, but not just sound.

I can totally hear the difference, it's clear as day. I'm just wondering what was meant by 'remastered' if it meant adding frequencies but it didn't entail re-bouncing the tracks.

Mostly, automated mechanisms of detection not enough to properly detect as short ms
silence as there is. But we can try that.

Completely aware of that as well, though I've confirmed it works perfectly (if it didn't, I'd already be in Logic). You'd think it would, given that it's a feature designed for the literal purpose of doing exactly what we're wanting to do.

[Droolie]

As promised, here's the segments archive: https://mega.co.nz/#!nA8hTAjA!sXWjWMOsC ... GleqB4Xr3A
There seem to be some tracks missing from the PS3 version (like the Bégoniax fight music), so we'll have to use the PS2 version for those.

I'm just wondering what was meant by 'remastered' if it meant adding frequencies but it didn't entail re-bouncing the tracks.

To be honest, I don't know much about remastering, but I do know that the music doesn't need to be re-bounced in order to add frequencies. I've seen it done with Rayman 2, but it sounded quite bad as it was done from the 22kHz version. R3 HD sounds a little too well-done for having such a low quality source.

Regarding the silences, WavePad (tiny program, has a free trial, I'm sure you know about it) has a great feature (Edit -> Trim -> Auto Trim Silence) which is specifically made to remove the silence at the beginning and end you get when you convert to a lossy format), and once applied, they loop perfectly. If you want, I can help you with that too so we can get the 32khz soundtrack up sooner.

There's a similar function in the program I use for wave editing (GoldWave) and you can batch process the files with it. The problem is that it cuts away too much in silent segments (for example, MS_CgSw_05Meet_02.wav in the segment archive). If WavePad works well on that file, I think it's a good idea to use that.

[Adsolution]

Well, it doesn't work, it removes way too much silence as well. Heh, I don't know why I didn't think that would happen.

Tracks like that could be very difficult, since as far as I know, the amount of silence at the end seems random (from my own compression tests, it ends up being anywhere from <1 to 25 ms), so we would have no way of knowing how long the silence is supposed to be unless we infer from the BPM. However, the beginning silence is always 25 ms.

I suppose we could use the auto silence trimming for all tracks that don't naturally end in silence, and for those, we could just spend a little extra time figuring it out. I see no other way.

[Droolie]

Hmm, I don't see any beginning silence at all here. Which files are you talking about?
Anyway, I think I might have found a better solution: we could use a (command-line) program to export the length of the PS2 version's segments into a file and use that to trim the PS3 segments properly... probably better/faster than doing everything manually.
Edit - I tried that manually on a few segments, it seems to work pretty well, although the PS2 version has some silence at the end too (but not as much)... the Gamecube version doesn't, and thankfully we have those segments too. It works perfectly with the GC version lengths so far!

[Adsolution]

Hmm, I don't see any beginning silence at all here. Which files are you talking about?

Ah, you're right, I was still thinking about my own tests there.

That's a good idea. Trimming them to match the GC files' lengths would actually be incredibly easy to do in any DAW, you could just import, say, fifty GC and PS3 tracks at a time, snap the PS3's lengths to the PS2's quickly, then use that common DAW feature to, in one action, export all the tracks separately.