Rayman 3 scores

[sfn42]

@Maz: The lums glitch in part 1 isn't really that big of an improvement. You mentioned the Heckler-combo where it can be worth 500 points but triggering a glitch during that combo can be tough because you don't have huge windows for transforming the lums. The biggest source of improvement for lums glitches are the first combo and the slapdash combo because you can easily get numerous extra lums in those. However, one extra lums is worth very little in either combo, so even if you get like 5 extra lums, you only win about 600 points.

As for the lums glitch during the IPG: As you probably know, there are two types of lums glitches. The regular one, which gives you one or two extra lums. This one does not work during the IPG. In fact, lums are glitched in other ways. In CC's maximum-combo he actually includes the lums from one lavomatrix, which just doesn't leave even after several minutes. Then there is the second type of lums glitch which you can get with lums from hoodlums which are high in the air (usually hoodstrmers but there are few instances where it works with other hoodlums), as these lums don't descend to the ground after beating the hoodlum and, instead, fly away immediately. You can get up to 10 lums for this version and it actually works during the IPG. It isn't hard to imagine that this is a huge source for points on console versions in TOTL2. However, it makes including hoodstormers into the final combo tougher because you can't calculate the number of lums you'd get and not transforming the lums would lose you a ton of points, so that you likely won't have enough for a true maximum unless you play an insane part 1. Also, as Cut mentioned, the green gem is already in 15th place in the current combo. We could probably restructure the whole combo and go from the hoodstormers to the green gem directly but that would cost a ton of points. I don't know the exact numbers but I doubt we'd have enough points for a maximum if we did that.

[Maz]

@Maz: The lums glitch in part 1 isn't really that big of an improvement. You mentioned the Heckler-combo where it can be worth 500 points but triggering a glitch during that combo can be tough because you don't have huge windows for transforming the lums. The biggest source of improvement for lums glitches are the first combo and the slapdash combo because you can easily get numerous extra lums in those. However, one extra lums is worth very little in either combo, so even if you get like 5 extra lums, you only win about 600 points.

500 + 600 still means more than 1k extra, which, even with the "easy" Hoodstormer-Combo in the battle arena, should still lead to 70k Points, and even more should you manage the difficult version. Considering that DTUCC got 117.369 with 65.500 after Part 1 - which could appearently be improved by 5.000 - you should, by my logic, also be able to lose up to 5k Points for the Hoodblaster (Scoring is confusing though, so if there's a flaw in there, or if I missed something, please tell me). And about the Green Gem as the 15th item: Can't you just take less Yellow Gems from the Piggybank, and collect the rest AFTER you got the Green Gem? You should have a few seconds (like 7 or so) before the Gems disappear, and in the video it seems as if that would be managable (didn't test that myself though).

I don't know the exact numbers but I doubt we'd have enough points for a maximum if we did that.

Well, even if - hypothetically speaking - you got "only" 119k with a 20k-Combo, it would still beat the current maximum, so in the end, that probably wouldn't matter too much.

I understand very well that it's not only very difficult to get such a high amount of Points in Part 1, but also that it's difficult to arrange the Combos in Part 2, but I'm just saying that I highly doubt 117.369 to be the very best Score.

@Cut: You said that it's possible to get 49.840 or so in Part 2... but it seems as if console and PC-Players have somewhat different Parts (for example, I get 12 Yellow Gems from the very last Cage). If I may ask, which circumstances does this Score apply to?

[sfn42]

@Maz: The problem about the whole thing is that it sounds easier in theory than it really is in practice. That and the missing points on PC are a big reason why we didn't look into it. Getting 70k in part 1 without the extreme hoodstormer-version is just not realistic. Remember, Cut calculated with a litte more than 68k on PC and that's with 10 shoe hits which just isn't viable on console (the shoe is harder on console, so you can't expect more than 3 or 4 hits consistently). The highest any of us has ever gotten was something in the 67k range after part 1 and that just isn't enough to even entertain the thought about including more hoodstormers. I see where you're coming from with the extra hoodstormers and also the gems in the piggy banks but it just isn't practical. Cut's idea about including the other piggy banks in the final combo has more merit because it doesn't cost as many points in other areas. Also, the lums glitch with the hoodlifters on top of the tower is worth massive amounts of points - I think it can make a difference of up to 4000 points, maybe even more if you're extremely lucky. Not getting these, in addition to losing out on more points from the hoodstormers themselves and from the gems we take on the way down make it a tight situation score-wise. We'd have to calculate what is and isn't possible, but since we haven't had enough points after part 1 so far to aim for anything more than the 117369, we saw no need to look into it.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure Cut's calculations in part 2 are for PC. Console version lose a few hundred points on the gems you mentioned but more than make up for it in the hoodstormer-combo.

[MandM81]

Starting this secrecy nonsense again doesn't gain you anything but rather it hurts other players' chance to optimize their own games. All the secrecy has done in the past, is hurt this community.

Oh please not again. Don't start lecturing other players on this forum about secrecy as long as you password protect TSF. Remove the password protection and we can talk again.

[sfn42]

We haven't used TSF to discuss anything in over a year so we forgot about it. Let's talk again now. My previous post still stands.

[Xenon]

Mostwanted's 10 shoe hits video is awesome. Never been able to get anything above seven, myself. Not gonna lie, I did laugh when he missed the Lockjaw on the way out, though.

I'll make an 'official' post soon, I'm hoping to get some help with a small rpc project from you guys.

A big congratulations to all who've improved their scores recently, and especially those responsible for reviving this game with new maximums. I'm still reading this thread very regularly, of course

[Maz]

That's great news, Xenon, I'll hope you'll find back to Scoring as well some day!

By the way MandM, I meant to tell you the following: As I said, it would be great to have an overview of how many Points can be achieved in all the Parts of Rayman 3, because it may give hints as to where we could look for a new maximum (for example, if the amount of Points you could get after HH3 was currently 108.000, you would immediately see that 1k Points are needed to achieve a new best Score). Maybe "outdated" was a bad word to describe the walkthroughs on Page 1 with, what I meant was outdated in a sense of not containing any information on the new Combos (like in SBTC for example), and as such not proving very useful for the task mentioned above. It's probably not important anyway, but I just wanted to get rid off any misunderstandings.

Quick update on LOTLD3: I'm currently standing at a bit more than 35k Points for this Part (lucky occurences excluded); once I'm done recording, I'll have a ton of videos to upload, since I tried a lot of sick stuff. Hopefully you guys will find some inspiration, since I'm currently nowhere near the required amount of Points for either this Part or the final Combo.

[1234]

Here is the promised video (Unfortunately only an attempt): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHTdyJkq3wc
That means that we can get 480 points more! When you kill the hoodlum even later, you could maybe roll to another gem and get further 20 points (because then you´ll kill the slapdash for 240 combo points). I´ll make a better video after christmas.

Here´s also a short video as a proof that you can combine the mushroom gem with the trampoline gem in FC2:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOhXWd0cj5c
But i´m still not sure, whether you will have enough time to helicopter carefully on the mushroom. I´ll put it on my "to-test list".

in DOTK2, taking the Matuvu on the statue after collecting one of the 3 Red Gems is possible. My success rate is very low in doing so, but it works.

Well done Maz!
How many points can we actually get after part 7 (only approxiately)?

Part 6 - Final Gem Combo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9NCQi4HLNI

Thanks for the video! Nice trick.

I'll make an 'official' post soon, I'm hoping to get some help with a small rpc project from you guys.
A big congratulations to all who've improved their scores recently, and especially those responsible for reviving this game with new maximums. I'm still reading this thread very regularly, of course

Thanks! Will you try to improve your score again?
I don´t know, what exactly you mean with the "official post", but i sounds good.

[MandM81]

We haven't used TSF to discuss anything in over a year so we forgot about it. Let's talk again now. My previous post still stands.

I'm quite impressed how you guys from TSF always manage to speak in one mind. Either you all defend secrecy or you all come out against it.

You seemed to sneer at my notion of a fair fight in HoF. But you see, it is just that at the moment. When Cut replays CF he'll probably be back on top. And then I will have to improve to beat Cut and so on. This is a fair fight because at this moment in time the IPG is canceled out. It will be short lived unless we come to an agreement on HoF.

With the discovery of the IPG in CF1 it has become clear that IPGs could be anywhere in the game. So, how should we use the HoF? How can we have a fair fight for all players in HoF if a group of players choose to use IPG rules while other players don't?

And how can the HoF be used as a motivator for improvements in both score and ranking if you as a non - IPG player permanently trail 20k or more points behind IPG players?

Do you have a suggestion on how to make it a fair fight for all players in HoF now and in the future?

As for secrecy, well, we released complete video walkthroughs for CF and TOTL a long time before your recent collective change of heart. On that notion, we are really pleased to see the IPG TOTL solution from you in return. It was remarkably well played by CC.

[DTUCC]

i like where the game is evolving to, currently. as i mentioned weeks ago, i have other projects atm. i have played r3 for like 3 hours in the past couple weeks to get cf and lotld done. i have just moved on to other games and projects. might go for 900k at some point, might not. i'm just happy to see everyone working together as group to push the game as far as they can, because that's what this should ultimately be about.

With the discovery of the IPG in CF1 it has become clear that IPGs could be anywhere in the game. So, how should we use the HoF? How can we have a fair fight for all players in HoF if a group of players choose to use IPG rules while other players don't?

maybe by not giving a shit like everyone else currently playing.

[sfn42]

Maybe you should stop making it all about the HoF for once. I haven't mentioned the HoF once in my post. As Cut has said before, our goal at this point is to get the most points out of the game. We can get that if we all work together. Right now, the only one who doesn't seem interested in doing so, is you because, at least this is the impression I get, you still seem fixated on the HoF.

[MandM81]

maybe by not giving a shit like everyone else currently playing.

And yet you keep using the HoF!?

Maybe you should stop making it all about the HoF for once. I haven't mentioned the HoF once in my post. As Cut has said before, our goal at this point is to get the most points out of the game. We can get that if we all work together. Right now, the only one who doesn't seem interested in doing so, is you because, at least this is the impression I get, you still seem fixated on the HoF.

Is that the answer to my question? If you all give a shit about HoF then the problem should be easily solved.

[Adsolution]

This exact conversation has been had before, let's not repeat how it played out in January.

[DTUCC]

maybe by not giving a shit like everyone else currently playing.

And yet you keep using the HoF!?

well, it's there, might as well

[MandM81]

This exact conversation has been had before, let's not repeat how it played out in January.

Agree completely. At the time we agreed on a consensus which included a re-design of the HoF that could perhaps solve the problem. How far in the process of implementing this re-design are we?

[sfn42]

maybe by not giving a shit like everyone else currently playing.

And yet you keep using the HoF!?

Maybe you should stop making it all about the HoF for once. I haven't mentioned the HoF once in my post. As Cut has said before, our goal at this point is to get the most points out of the game. We can get that if we all work together. Right now, the only one who doesn't seem interested in doing so, is you because, at least this is the impression I get, you still seem fixated on the HoF.

Is that the answer to my question? If you all give a shit about HoF then the problem should be easily solved.

My preferred solution has always been to remove the HoF completely. It would definitely help the community.

[Xenon]

Based on the posts made on this page, would it not be an idea for the ipg players (who don't seem to care for their positions on the leaderboard) to stop uploading scores to the Hof? Nothing against you guys of course, but if you really don't care, it would probably create a more harmonious atmosphere around here, non?

[Maz]

My preferred solution has always been to remove the HoF completely. It would definitely help the community.

I don't really think so. First of all, the HoF has purely competetive value... even if you don't care that much, you still compete by entering your Score. Removing the HoF wouldn't remove the competetiveness, I guess. And don't forget that the HoF is the very reason for all the discussion we had recently. Without the HoF, would you know that MandM got 890k without an IPG? Or would we have known that you guys managed to drastically improve your Score using IPGs? Most likely not.

It's true that the HoF seems to have caused trouble in the past, but it was also responsible for the development we're going through right now. There's a lot of good reasons to maintain the HoF (disregarding the fact that the people in charge would probably never even consider removing it anyway).

[MandM81]

Here is the promised video (Unfortunately only an attempt): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHTdyJkq3wc
That means that we can get 480 points more! When you kill the hoodlum even later, you could maybe roll to another gem and get further 20 points (because then you´ll kill the slapdash for 240 combo points). I´ll make a better video after christmas.

Cool video. And nice job making it work.

Here´s also a short video as a proof that you can combine the mushroom gem with the trampoline gem in FC2:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOhXWd0cj5c
But i´m still not sure, whether you will have enough time to helicopter carefully on the mushroom. I´ll put it on my "to-test list".

I'm not sure it will work either. Try this

When you're at the level beside the Trampolines you can do as follows:

1. Pass the Yellow Gems in the Hallway to the next area.
2. When you're at the last Yellow Gem, take it and proceed with the next Yellow Gem.
3. Pass the third Yellow Gem and continue the combo with the Yellow Gem on top of the lowest Mushroom.
4. Take the Yellow Gem on top of the highest Mushroom.
5. Jump and take the Yellow Gem on top of the last Mushroom on your way down to the ground. Don't land on the Mushroom.
6. Quickly position yourself beside the last Yellow Gem outside the Hallway.
7. Take it by dragging it as you run towards the Trampoline.
8. Roll towards the Trampoline and get the Yellow Gem right on time.

The last part requires immaculate timing.

[Cut]

- double posting -