Rayman 3 scores

[1234]

From me merry christmas to all as well. Hope you could enjoy this day despite the discussion.

I myself don´t want to say much to all this. I personally don´t really care, whether MandM will reveal his finding(s) now. Don´t get me wrong, i AM curious how MandM could get all this points, but, first, i can completely understand MandMs point, that that´s the only way to be able to compete for the best score and second, there is enough to do now (all this opened projects (LOTLD, HH, TOTL...) and improving nearly all levels).
But I agree completely, that secrecy isn´t a good thing at all. I hope we can find a consensus to bring a good atmosphere here back.

@Cut:

[1] I don't know whether 1234 and MandM actually communicated via PM,
[2]but I should have told you that I explicitly told him not to give me any concrete information, because I wanted to first try and do as much as I can by myself.
[3]I appreciate your concern for me, but in MandM's defense, he's not using anyone as a shield.
[4]And just for the record, I never had a problem with anyone else using IPGs. I'm not a fan of it, but I won't give a damn if someone else decides to incorperate it into his game. In fact, MandM could start using the IPG tomorrow, and I would be fine with it

1: I haven´t communicated with MandM via PM.
2: I haven´t told him that, but actually i´d like to try to find as much as i can by myself as well, so there is no need to tell me the improvement(s) at first.
3: Agreed
4: I have the same opinion.


@Maz: That are some great combos and videos in LOTLD!
I´ll think about it as well and maybe we can get another unexpected new maximum in this level...

Cool video. And nice job making it work.

Thanks!

I'm not sure it will work either. Try this

When you're at the level beside the Trampolines you can do as follows:

1. Pass the Yellow Gems in the Hallway to the next area.
2. When you're at the last Yellow Gem, take it and proceed with the next Yellow Gem.
3. Pass the third Yellow Gem and continue the combo with the Yellow Gem on top of the lowest Mushroom.
4. Take the Yellow Gem on top of the highest Mushroom.
5. Jump and take the Yellow Gem on top of the last Mushroom on your way down to the ground. Don't land on the Mushroom.
6. Quickly position yourself beside the last Yellow Gem outside the Hallway.
7. Take it by dragging it as you run towards the Trampoline.
8. Roll towards the Trampoline and get the Yellow Gem right on time.

Thanks again. That works indeed.
Cut, if you want to complete the combo sheet, then that are the points at first:
FC part 2:
(combo: non-combo points - combo points - total points)

Matuvu combo: 540 - 2070 - 2610
Dwarf combo: 250 - 740 - 990
(3 gems on mushrooms): 30 - 20 - 50
(some gems in the main room): 80 - 100 - 180
(2 remaining gems in the main room): 20 - 10 - 30
(5 gems under a bridge): 50 - 40 - 90
Crab combo: 130 - 230 - 360
Total: 1100 - 3210 - 4310

In the 3 Matuvu combo you can also take two gems before killing the hoodblaster. That means:
3 Matuvu combo: 2170 - 8850 - 11020
Total: 3320 - 11330 - 14650
A video will follow within the next few days.

[Cut]

Good stuff 1234

Has anyone ever tried this Tribelle-Combo in part 4?

1. Kill the crabby which is going to be squashed.
2. Head for the Vortex and take the 2 gems to the right in combo.
3. Kill the 2nd Crabby and climb the platform as fast as possible, collect the 2 yellos gems.
4. Collect the red gem and roll towards the 5 gems, pay attention and take the red gem in 11th place or later
5. Screw the Mushroom from below
6. Head for the last yellow gem on the platform and jump towards the climbing-gap
7. Collect the 2 yellow gems, then take the first and the last gem on the upper platform, head for the gem on the mushroom, roll towards the last yellow gem and fall down to take the Tribelle in Combo.

4750 (3720)

[MandM81]

Well, I thought that you could have learned the same from the past 15 months. But apparently you must have liked your secrecy back then, otherwise this statement seems a little weird to me!?

I had no secrets 15 months ago. The so-called Fairy Coucil secret that CC always pulls out of the hat as proof of my devious behaviour was revealed long before that. I accepted your (TSF) choice of secrecy eventually and played my own game.

MandM, please show me some examples out of my yesterdays posts which you don't find acceptable. Then I'm prepared next time, I neither wanted to attack you personally or was hostile, I just stated my opinion about your behaviour. And these weren't even the important parts of my posts. But maybe you can explain me what your problem is and I can adapt to that. Just because you feel offended by something, that's no reason to ignore everything I wrote. I chose my wording as good as I can and I hoped that I could make you think about that a little. There aren't friendly words for everything, MandM. Same for issues related to myself.

Examples are found everywhere in recent posts from sfn, MG and partly CC. Take your pick. I refer to TSF as you.

There are two issues brought forward during these discussions and I would like to bring on a third:

1. Secrecy.
2. The Hall of Fame.
3. Civilized communication in the forum.

The last issue has become relevant reading the previous post from TSF.

[Cut]

I had no secrets 15 months ago. The so-called Fairy Coucil secret that CC always pulls out of the hat as proof of my devious behaviour was revealed long before that. I accepted your (TSF) choice of secrecy eventually and played my own game.

IMO it's the extent of your revelation. You said that you wanted to write a solution for FC and that never happened. I don't want you to write a complete solution because it's much work to do but you never went into detail when you revealed your combos and that's what DTUCC means. You kept everything vague and I don't understand that to be honest. When you reveal something, why not talk about that in detail? You're the one who knows best how something works you found.

3. Civilized communication in the forum.

I know what you mean and I know what your problem is. But you have to know, there is a reason why it's so hard to keep everything super polite and friendly: your selective post-reading and your tendency to misrepresent facts. That may seem civilized to outsiders but in my personal opinion is not. I agree with you that our posts were not as civilized as you would like them to be. But on the other side you have to admit that you're not innocent regarding the points I mentioned. Because these things provoke uncivlized communication. This is no debate about who is guilty and who is not or who is demanding things and who is not. Maybe I'm wrong and you actually don't feel like you ever did something I mentioned, you'd have to tell me about that. Only this way we can find a way to deal with it.

[DTUCC]

you know, this thread's atmosphere was a lot more enjoyable when I, MandM and sfn just stayed out of it and let the others figure out all this awesome stuff. it's become pretty appearant that all three of us are pretty toxic to the atmosphere of this thread. so here's my compromise, let's just all stfu and have fun playing the game -_-

tl;dr i'm done arguing with anyone, really. peace

[MandM81]

I agree with you that our posts were not as civilized as you would like them to be. But on the other side you have to admit that you're not innocent regarding the points I mentioned. Because these things provoke uncivlized communication.

I don't claim to be innocent in anything, but there is no excuse for the aggressive posts from certain members of the TSF. This sort of communication only creates disharmony and a hostile atmosphere that works against the idea of teamwork and cooperation.

You have addressed my "behaviour", which is ok, but a little self-justice within the TSF wouldn't be amiss.

[Cut]

Gotcha

[MandM81]

Has anyone ever tried this Tribelle-Combo in part 4?

It's a long time since I've been there, but I seem to remember there were some issues regarding this roll-off. I'll try again and report back.

[Xenon]

@sfn and others: There's clearly stubbornness on MandM's part but at least he had the willingness to eventually accept the Ipg into the Hof for the benefit of this community, as did others, including myself. Hats off to you and Cc, as well, for removing your scores from the leaderboard to soothe tempers (although it's a shame to not see your names there). But deeper down, I'm failing to see how anyone is really making an effort to improve standards in this community.

Mirage was clearly trolling with his post about friendliness, but have you guys even stopped for a moment to consider how unwelcoming this thread looks to newcomers? Despite what you think, it's not about what someone thinks of the Hof, nor about secrecy; seeing what can only be described as a flame war blazing in a thread about scores in a Rayman game, really says something profound imo. Personally, I am more than happy to discuss our differences in a sensible, productive manner, not by means of posting weird images or writing in a clearly provocative and offensive tone.

[Maz]

regarding LOTLD, i haven't been contributing to the discussion, but, even with an ipg, can you guys tell me where you are even hoping to generalte a combo greater than the one in the doctor's office?

Due to a few IPGs being discovered in the near past, I have had thoughts on this; you can play quite an obvious Combo which would be worth 20.980 Points. You could play the first tower, and then make the second tower available without taking anything outside the tower. Then you'd use the HMF from the first room to break the Wooden Door, and start with the Hoodoo-Combo. Then you work your way back to in front of the tower, and end with the 2-Matuvu-Combo. Mabye a bigger Combo is possible with an IPG, but of course, I'm hoping to find a bigger Combo without havign to use one.

To actually answer your question: I don't know where to hope for such a big Combo... but that's the point of investigating, and part of the fun for me. Let me ask you: Where were YOU even hoping to find the 15k Points or so needed for a new Maximum in CF when you started exploring? My guess is that, just like me, you just went with it, eventually discovered more and more new things, and ended up getting enough Points. I'm trying to do the same in LOTLD3 right now.

Has anyone ever tried this Tribelle-Combo in part 4?

1. Kill the crabby which is going to be squashed.
2. Head for the Vortex and take the 2 gems to the right in combo.
3. Kill the 2nd Crabby and climb the platform as fast as possible, collect the 2 yellos gems.
4. Collect the red gem and roll towards the 5 gems, pay attention and take the red gem in 11th place or later
5. Screw the Mushroom from below
6. Head for the last yellow gem on the platform and jump towards the climbing-gap
7. Collect the 2 yellow gems, then take the first and the last gem on the upper platform, head for the gem on the mushroom, roll towards the last yellow gem and fall down to take the Tribelle in Combo.

4750 (3720)

I did... The Combo itself should be possible, but I think I ended up having issues with the duration of the Vortex. I'm not entirely sure though.

By the way, concerning FC4: Has someone tried getting the first Tribelle after taking that Yellow Gem on the edge? I always ended up being like half a second or so too late. The idea was to take the first Matuvu while hanging from the ceiling (that part is possible), then collect the other Gems, and take the Tribelle for 2.000 Points (now that, I could never do).
Also, I have tried to get the Matuvu above the Tribelle by looking through the wall in the Fairy-Hole-Room for 1.500 or even 2.000 Points in Combo, but I never succeeded. Has anyone tried that, or at least knows whether it can be done? I assumed that it was either impossible to look through these exact walls, or that you CAN look through them, but the Matuvu's too far away.

These were the ideas I had to boost the CF-Score to 51k, but alas, I couldn't do either one.

[DTUCC]

@sfn and others: There's clearly stubbornness on MandM's part but at least he had the willingness to eventually accept the Ipg into the Hof for the benefit of this community, as did others, including myself.

thanks for the nice words, and you got that right, i should probably change the tone in my posts. but even as you are referring to Mirage's post, language aside he had a fair point. competetiveness in gaming is stupid all over the internet, in general. i've been there to compete in many games, and in most of them people have been pretty bad, but it has never been as horrible as it was here. it's just hard to put your finger on what it is that's causing all these problems, but if we all cared a little less about both the hof and secrecy, i guess that would be a step in the right direction.

on the note of that sentence i quoted, i respected mandm's decision to allow the ipg into the hof very much, but i have a hard time acknowledging his course of action when months later he makes a pledge to remove them again.

[Cut]

The 2nd matuvu is just allergic against distances, you don't get a red circle on him when you stand at the entrance of the room with the first tribelle so that's the problem here. We would need a to reach the top of the net without taking any yellow gem to do a combo here.

Also I found this launch: http://youtu.be/wesqueIzMD8
It should be possible to use this to clip out of bounds and reaching the tribelle-room without triggering the cutscene. That causes the big rock not to drop and we'd have both crabbys aviailable. I haven't succeeded in this video but I'm 99% sure it's possible. And yes, you can indeed clip out of bounds here, if the launch would have got me only a little bit higher I would have been able to fly through the wall.

I'll try this further.

[sfn42]

@sfn and others: There's clearly stubbornness on MandM's part but at least he had the willingness to eventually accept the Ipg into the Hof for the benefit of this community, as did others, including myself. Hats off to you and Cc, as well, for removing your scores from the leaderboard to soothe tempers (although it's a shame to not see your names there). But deeper down, I'm failing to see how anyone is really making an effort to improve standards in this community.

Mirage was clearly trolling with his post about friendliness, but have you guys even stopped for a moment to consider how unwelcoming this thread looks to newcomers? Despite what you think, it's not about what someone thinks of the Hof, nor about secrecy; seeing what can only be described as a flame war blazing in a thread about scores in a Rayman game, really says something profound imo. Personally, I am more than happy to discuss our differences in a sensible, productive manner, not by means of posting weird images or writing in a clearly provocative and offensive tone.

To be honest, I don't see this willingness from MandM you're speaking of. Since the attempt, he has made numerous attempts to get the IPG removed from the HoF in some way, shape or form. He deserves credit for actively working towards a compromise back then but in many posts since then, he has made the impression that he doesn't agree with the compromise at all. Maybe we all agreed to the compromise too quickly because we were tired of arguing. That might have been a mistake on all of our parts. Maybe we should have just waited for a few months and made a decision, then. I don't know.

I admit that some of my posts were over the top and there's no excuse for that. I'd prefer civilized communication as well but only if we resolve these issues. Just ignoring it again and then exchanging a few fake pleasantries is not the way to go. We've tried it in the past and it hasn't worked. If we did that, the issues would just come up again at some point. Ultimately, we'd probably go apart and the scoring community would end up dead at some point. I don't think anybody wants that and it would even look worse to new people.

@MandM: My problem is: Whenever I brought up legitimate concerns and criticized some of your actions in a civilzed manner, you started going on the defensive, all you did was play the victim and/or throw accusations back at me. Look at the following post for example:

I believe I was the person who coined the term "friendly competition" in the context of this community, so I have to say a few words here. Keeping things to yourself to gain an advantage is not "friendly competition". We should be working together, so that everyone can get the most points for their game and their preferred way of playing and so that we can, ultimately, stretch this game to its absolute limits, wherever they may be. Starting this secrecy nonsense again doesn't gain you anything but rather it hurts other players' chance to optimize their own games. All the secrecy has done in the past, is hurt this community

This was my first post addressing the secrecy issue. How is that offensive? How is that not civilized? I criticized your decision to keep things secret and your justification for it in a rational manner. If we can't even criticize each other's decisions and actions, then I see no point in having a scoring thread at all. As far as I am concerned, you have not addressed the issues I brought up in this post in a rational and non-defensive manner at all. Instead, you have responded through accusations and playing the victim. All these concerns are still valid and, for me, they are at the core of this whole issue and none of our subsequent posts have moved anywhere constructive.

[MandM81]

on the note of that sentence i quoted, i respected mandm's decision to allow the ipg into the hof very much, but i have a hard time acknowledging his course of action when months later he makes a pledge to remove them again.

As Xenon mentioned I took the step to compromise on letting the TOTL IPG into the HoF. I did it for two reasons. One was to move on after months of unpleasant posting, another was listening to you describing the challenge in the elaborate combos needed to reach the maximum score. Scoring had become much harder, you said. And looking at your video, I see I was right in trusting that.

The situation has changed for me with the IPG in CF1 for three reasons. One is that it has become clear that IPGs are more common in the game than previously believed. Another reason is the nature of the IPG in CF1 and its influence on the gameplay. And finally, the IPG Look Mode might be platform dependent, which is a serious matter when 2.500 combo points Matuvus are in play.

The CF1 IPG makes the first Hoodlum - Maruvu Combo much easier to play. The limitation on the Vortex time frame is eliminated thus making every item easier to deal with. The second Hoodlum - Matuvu Combo can be played exactly as in the non - IPG version, but you get double points. In CF1 scoring has become easier, disregarding the Look Mode issue.

Thus with potential multiple IPGs in the game, with the easier game play in certain levels and with the Look Mode issue I believe the non - IPG game and the IPG game are in fact two seperate games. Using the HoF for both games renders it meaningless as a motivator and a lucid ranking tool in my opinion.

[Cut]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_QsPSfycRY

May I present: the Infinite Powerup Glitch in the Hoodlums' Headquarters Part 1. This one gives us many options to improve this part and it's a huge step towards a new maximum in HH. It'll allow for interesting new combos with the Green Gem, the Warehouse and everything else so I see a ton of work in front of me

The glitch itself is a little bit troubled, I can manage to trigger it every 5-10 tries. The trick is that Rayman moves at the edge of the cutscene-triggerzone right when the cutscene attached to the switch activates. It requires having a good feeling of where is the cutscene-triggerzone. In my opinion the crucial point in this IPG is that we have a cutscene with a set triggerzone but this triggerzone is attached to a fixed event (activating the switch), and I expect that there could be more IPGs with cutscenes which have exactly this mechanism. So I will also take a look into some other levels.

[MandM81]

factoring in the combos in FC you#ve been taking over 5 years though :/

The thing about the FC "secrecy" is that I revealed where the points could be found, for example taking the Matuvu for 1.250 combo points in part 2. It’s true I never made a video, but I directed you to where the points could be found.

The way you handled TOTL was way beyond hiding a combo. You chose to hide a whole frigging glitch (IPG)!!! And you actually never revealed this IPG; neither did you have any intention to. It was brought to RPCs attention when someone posted a video of a speedrunner game. Eventually posting a screenshot was an empty gesture unless you at the same time had revealed the IPG.

Your answer to questions from me and other players was: “If you beat my score I will reveal the combos”. No-one outside TSF managed to beat your score in TOTL. 15 months later you revealed your findings in TOTL on your own accord.

We do need to move on and try to focus on the game rather than nurturing our disagreements through hateful posting.

I will propose this compromise:

1. Secrecy.
All players will share future findings in R3 through descriptions or videos.
MandM81 will reveal where he found the points that cancels out the IPG no later than 15 months from January 1st 2015, that is on April 1st 2016. That is the time frame set by TSF. If anyone beats my total score through non - IPG play before this date I will reveal the findings on the day when that happens.

2. The Hall of Fame.
Only non - IPG scores are to be entered into the existing HoF. If technically possible it would be preferable to have a separate HoF for IPG scores.

3. The communication on the forum.
All members of the forum will refrain from abusive language and personal attacks.

[MandM81]

May I present: the Infinite Powerup Glitch in the Hoodlums' Headquarters Part 1.

Outstanding

A new maximum is indeed within reach.

[Cut]

It already was without the IPG but this balances out the platform differences very well because the Heckler-Combo in part 2 or the lums-glitches are no big problem in general anymore. Who would have guessed that?

that is on April 1st 2016

I hope it's not the secret room in DOTK3.

[MandM81]

Secret room, now that would be a revelation.

Have you calculated the total score in HH1?

[Cut]

With the combos I could think of in the past few minutes, we can get ~35.000 points in HH1. But I'm already looking forward to implement the secret room into the Green Gem Combo and doing some shenanigans with the cage in the Warehouse. I haven't tested anything more deeply but maybe we can boost the maximum score up to 38 or even 40k.