Rayman Legends

[Bradandez]

And don't forget the original Donkey Kong country. It also had those "cheap" parts.

DKC has a whole lot less of cheapness than Rayman 1.

[darkhairwarrior]

I never was locked away from a collectable in Rayman though. Rayman 1 was hard but I wouldn't call it cheap. It sure as hell didn't hold your hand but that doesn't make it cheap. Cheap would be if there were moments when you can't see where you land or when you can't kill an enemy without getting hit, or having to replay a whole bunch of content just because you passed up a collectable at the end of a stage and can no longer get it, making you replay that entire stage for that one collectable.

Rayman sort of did that with the cages, but only because you were supposed to return to past worlds with new power ups and take alternate routes, aka, replayability or lengthening.

Rayman Advance was pretty cheap at times though due to screen limitations.

[Bradandez]

It was cheap. The level design are heavily flawed. Unlike Donkey Kong Country, Rayman 1 has no flow. Things in Rayman 1 can quickly change from slow and steady to fast and frantic without notice. Rayman 1 did have those free fall moments and you had no idea what was down below. Also Donkey Kong Country's bonus areas are only for completing the game 100%, so if you missed them, it's no big deal. But Rayman made you collect every cage to get to the final level of the game. Talk about replaying every stage again because it was necessary.

Donkey Kong Country was better designed.

[darkhairwarrior]

Basically, you're describing a hard game, not a cheap one.

Also, I can't remember any free fall areas that were cheap. I remember free fall areas with a trail of Tings that lead to a boss arena underneath.

The level design in Rayman didn't have flow because Rayman is a game about exploration, not point A to point B. The point of the game is to find every cage, by exploring each area of the stage thoroughly. It was hard and arguably tedious, but it wasn't cheap. Kinda like finding the Generators in Sonic CD, only you can return to previous levels in case you missed something.

DKC is a game with a A-B structure, so obviously you don't need to explore these linear stages. Rayman Origins took a hybrid approach to this formula with the hidden rooms that were somewhat required to progress through the game.

I think your understanding of cheap is flawed, since when you call something cheap, it's usually something that's just hard, tedious, or something you just don't like. Cheap is a game like Bubsy, where you can be killed by off screen enemies in 1 hit, or die from fall damage because you can't see where to land.

[Adsolution]

Rayman 1 did have those free fall moments and you had no idea what was down below.

I have literally no idea what you're talking about.

[Rayfist]

Rayman 1 has no flow

I have literally no idea what you're talking about.

I think he's describing the moments where you jump down and because of his viewpoint of the camera it's hard for him see what's below him, not many times on Rayman there were leaps of faith though if I remember correctly, and the helicopter kind of makes this complaint nonexistent. And I think he's mostly complaining due to the game being too hard. I'll get back to it later today.

[Bradandez]

That and I think I'm mistaking on what little air time you get with your Helicopter hair. That little air time is what made it feel like I was free falling.

And I accept that boon. Rayman 1 had no flow and I know it shouldn't feel like it. This game is just stiff when playing it.

[Rayfist]

Rayman 1 had no flow and I know it shouldn't feel like it. This game is just stiff when playing it.

[Bradandez]

You're memes can't hurt me.

[Rayfist]

You're memes can't hurt me.

Anyways I disagree with the flow but different strokes for different blokes, than again you thought R2 an alright game so different view points I guess. I just think your critiques for R1 aren't even legitimate critiques (and while R1 is my favorite game of all time I can admit it has some flaws), none of which you pointed out.

[Master]

You're memes can't hurt me.

Hehe, sorry, that one I couldn't resist.

[darkhairwarrior]

Actual flaws with Rayman 1:

-Save system (Some levels are stupid long)
-Power Ups (Hanging wtf?)
-Charge up awareness (Is my fist fully powered or nah?)
-Tings don't really do much at all, not really a criticism but more of an annoyance

Getting back to the topic though, here's a theory of mine about Rayman Legends I wanted to bring up; could Toad Story's location be a post-Legends Bog of Murk? The toads could be mutated / cursed descendants of people that were changed to toads by Begoniax. Not to mention there were also beanstalk-like plants growing in areas of Rayman 3. I immediately thought of this when first playing the stage.

[Master]

Hmm, an interesting theory, another theory some of us have thought of is that the Legends worlds as being the same as the Origins 'uns, but having gone radical transformations in the century that has passed between the titles.

[Sabertooth]

I find that the Daily Challenges are a great way of getting my brain going in the mornings.

[Master]

Ehh, the challenges I find I can be on and off about, I tend to have periods where I get into them daily, then weeks where I don't bother.

[darkhairwarrior]

I can see why the music would lead to that kind of assumption, but I don't see how Band Land could turn into a swamp in only 100 years time. Gourmand Land would also have to change from ice caps to a desert for The Fiesta of the Dead.

That theory makes sense for Teensies in Trouble and 20k Lums Under the Sea though, especially since The Land of the Livid Dead is right under Teensies in Trouble.

[Bradandez]

Time can change something drastically over a century.

Here's my personal theory. Since the Valley and the Glade of Dreams are now one, the Desert of Dijiridoos/Grumbling Grottos is the remains of Band Land, which had been invaded by Razorbeard. Now after our heroes slept for an entire century, the terrain had change. Plant life has made it back to the desert and brings along the new Toads. The toads come and start claiming the land by ridding the previous inhabitants (the Song birds). Though, some of the old desert terrain still exists. But it reaches far near where Jibberish Jungle used to be, hence why drums are in the Teensies in Trouble world. Both worlds were right next to each other in the previous game, it carried over to Legends. I hope I explained it to an understandable extent.

[darkhairwarrior]

I guess you could stretch out an explanation of Band Land to Toad Story (I really hope we didn't lose Band Land since it's one of my favorite Rayman locations), and it's pretty drastic for a barren wasteland like Band Land to turn into such a lush swamp in only 100 years (Then again this is Rayman), but I still can't bring myself to believe that the Ice Caps of Gourmand Land could ever transform into a desert like FotD, especially in only 100 years.

[SpyroGuy]

Brad, did you manage to get that 360 save file already?

[Bradandez]

Can't you see I'm busy with nothing >:u

(I'll see when I have time to do this.)