Rayman 3 scores

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MandM81
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by MandM81 »

1234 wrote:Funny coincidence; just yesterday i got the matuvu tribelle combo (and some attempts of the SJ) on video. While recording, somehow the SJs aren´t high enough, so i had to stop recording to get a SJ with the right height. Matuvu Tribelle Combo
Awesome :shock:
1234 wrote:In FC4 in the old version of the first matuvu combo (the version where you don´t need any SJs) after lowering both mushrooms you can get all four yellow gems before taking the red gem. By that you will win 40 points. I´ll upload a video in a few days or weeks.
Well, in the "old time" I finished the Matuvu Combo like this. The third Yellow Gem on the left is object number 15 in the combo and thus the Red Gem is number 16. It is not strictly necessary to get all four Yellow Gems before taking the Red Gem and finally the Matuvu. It can be an advantage to leave the Yellow Gem on the right and use it for the Matuvu.
Cut
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by Cut »

@1234: thanks bud, that was unexpected help :)
The hangout had to be postponed unfortunately, but I kinda got my mood back and I'm starting some attempts in FC now, I want to try out the new stuff in FC1.
MandM81 wrote:It can be an advantage to leave the Yellow Gem on the right and use it for the Matuvu.
Word, it just gives you a better angle towards the Matuvu, and from what I've tried, the 2nd Matuvu already has a bad enough angle. I still need to get more consistent with the very first combo anyway if I want to give this a serious attempt, I screw up (lol) the mushroom way too often :(

EDIT
Maz wrote:On that note, even though I know it's probably been a while since someone played the "normal" way, can someone tell me with absolute certainty whether or not you can kill the second Hoodblaster in the area with the Mushroom before the HMF runs out?
You can, I did it before.

I also started some serious attempts on FC, I mainly want to finish FC2 with 4450 points and then take a stab at the 4 Matuvu Combo, just to see if this is somehow non-TAS-able. Whatever the result may be, 50k points seem tasty.
1234
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by 1234 »

Maz wrote:Looking good, nicely done! :up:
MandM81 wrote:Awesome :shock:
Thanks! :)
Maz wrote: 1.) Great to hear, that was actually one of the parts I was most worried about; not because it's the most difficult, but rather because it's in the middle of the Combo, so it would've hurt a lot if that wouldn't have been possible.
2.) Looking forward to hearing about that! :wink:
3.) Great job finding another 40 Points. Although I'd guess that you won't play FC again for 40 Points it might still be useful information for other players opting to go for the maximum.
1.) Maybe I should also mention that i had to use RibSharks "Instant-look-mode-trick" (or however you want to call it). Without this trick it seems to be impossible to get the matuvu in time. However i think that with some practise you can get used to the trick.

2.) I forgot that there is also a third new idea i have for this part. So here they are:

a) Until now we kill the grim keeper in no combo. I found out that somehow, when you helicopter over the grim keeper and hit him one time while you´re still over him, then you can jump on the upper level (maybe it´s because he changes the position of his shield when you hit him and then you can jump on it?).
Then, once you reach the upper level, you can get the single yellow gem and kill the grim keeper in combo. (+ 440 points)
The first problem is that yet i can´t do it consistently; the other problem is the powerup range, but i think we might be able to return the first area to renew the lockjaw since i found a quite effective SJ, so maybe ...

b) In the last combo (in case someone doesn´t remember the current version here´s a link to Maz´ video) we start with the four gems at the upper level. The idea is to at first take the HMF in the previous room, then quickly run to the last room, break the piggybank on the right box, jump on the box and take the three gems from the piggybank (now the HMF will run out). Then roll from the box towards the hill. This will (sometimes) launch you high enough to get the four gems at the upper level in time. Afterwards take the next four gems in combo (this is possible) and continue as usual. (+ 110 points)

c) In the same combo as above, i found out that, after you´ve killed the last hoodstyler (with the dollar-sign), you can kill the hoodboom (in the zeppelin-like vehicle) by hitting him with your fists (that means you don´t need to shoot him with the rocket). The idea is that, as soon as you´ve finished off the last hoodstyler, you quickly kill the hoodboom (luckily one usual hit seems to be enough), then get the rocket, roll off and kill the incoming hoodblaster just in time. (+ 420 points)
I haven´t tested it extensively yet, so i don´t know whether it´s possible.

3.) Actually i haven´t finished FC4 yet, so i can still get those 40 points. :wink: However i won´t restart because of the 40 points in case i will succeed in the rest of the combo.
Maz wrote:I calculated the following Scores (and hopefully didn't make any mistakes):
[...]
Total: 108.150 Points
Wow, that´s a nice score and really great videos! :o Sadly it doesn´t lead to a new No-Glitch-Maximum, but who knows what´ll happen, 2k points are not very much.
MandM81 wrote: Well, in the "old time" I finished the Matuvu Combo like this.
Thanks for the video. :) Actually i didn´t know that you can get the yellow gem like that. Once i tried that, but failed.
I also uploaded the new "old version" of the combo to show an alternative way.
I added a few ways to reach the first mushroom as a summary to the video.Video
Cut wrote:@1234: thanks bud, that was unexpected help :)
You´re welcome! :)
May i also ask, whether your idea in HH1 work? I mean getting the gems in the secret room, using the teleport, activating the cutscene, getting teleported to the one end of the bridge (because of the cutscene), breaking the door, etc.. I think it´s an interesting idea, so i wonder whether it works?
Cut
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by Cut »

1234 wrote:May i also ask, whether your idea in HH1 work? I mean getting the gems in the secret room, using the teleport, activating the cutscene, getting teleported to the one end of the bridge (because of the cutscene), breaking the door, etc.. I think it´s an interesting idea, so i wonder whether it works?
Well, I think it works. The teleport keeps your orientation, so while being in the secret room, you have to move towards the direction, the bridge will be located while walking towards the teleport, and then keep moving forward with the messed up camera angle you're probably gonna experience. Also, you need to get a feel for breaking the door as late as possible, and even then it's not a fun combo to play. I would get it to work if I tried for long enough, currently I just want to try different things though. The total possible improvement is 2.100 points over the standard 9000-combo.

The warehouse is still a problem as well, since I can't seem to find a possible way of taking the Matuvu and the Tribelle in one combo, since the IPG blocks first-person-mode. Currently, you still make up a good 1500 points over the non-IPG-version, but it could be so much more... Realistically, PC players can finish HH2 with ~92.500 points, I'd have to ask MandM whether that's enough when sticking with his combos in HH3.
MandM81
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by MandM81 »

Cut wrote:Realistically, PC players can finish HH2 with ~92.500 points, I'd have to ask MandM whether that's enough when sticking with his combos in HH3.
I finished HH2 with 88k+ points, so 92,5k is more than enough. Actually, it opens up for a potential extended final combo. Perhaps it's possible to include the six Gems above the moving platforms near the Hoodboom in the final combo?
Cut
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by Cut »

I'd have to look into what you did, is it still coherent with your most recent HH walkthrough? I mean, that could be a nice opportunity for PC players to make up for points that they lose through unavailable lums-glitches. From what I have experienced so far, the final combo struggles with the Lockjaw-duration though, so any longer combo than what already has been proven possible might bring trouble.

Also I'm making progress in FC2, I basically have both combos figured out by now. Just waiting for the attempt where I suceed both of them.
1234
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by 1234 »

Finally i´ve finished FC with 50200 points, so eventually the 50k milestone is passed in practice. :D
Sadly i made a mistake in the tribelle combo in part 4, so i lost 40 points and additionally i "only" played a slightly easier version, but i didn´t want to restart because of that. The positive aspect, at least for you, is that my score is a little bit easier to beat now. :P
As promised i made a video of that part, however it doesn´t show anything new. I also made a video of part 5 and 6 for anyone who wants to see the satisfying moment of 50k points ticking in.
Here are the videos of every part of FC (where you can get points).

The Fairy Council: A video walkthrough for 50200 points.

Part 2 (4450/4900 - 4450/4900)
Part 3 (14590/16060 - 19040/20960)
Part 4 (14610/15140 - 33650/36100)
Part 5 and 6 (8360/8360 - 42010/44460); (8190/8190 - 50200/52650)

Good luck to everyone! :)
Cut
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by Cut »

Great score, congratulations. Also means, that I have to get my ass up now in FC :P
I'm going to do some testing on a possible 4-Matuvu-Combo in FC3, from what I have tested so far, it might be possible to use the TAS-method in real time, the camera-trick he used works well for me. The execution on itself is not that difficult too, the biggest issue is finding the thin spot where you can actually take the 4th Matuvu. I guess it's worth the effort, since it eliminates the 2nd difficult combo in this part (which means once you got the 4-Matuvu-Combo, you really can't screw up anymore) and the rest of the E3MC is really not a big deal anymore. How times have changed.
1234
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by 1234 »

Thank you! :)
Good to know that the 4-Matuvu-Combo might be possibly played in future (without TAS).
As you can see in my post above i lost 450 points in part 2, 1470 points in part 3 and 530 points in part 4, in total 2450 points (assuming every combo what Lance played will also work in real time). Now, if you decide to play the 4-Matuvu-Combo and succeed in this and the other combos of the part and furthermore play the harder version of the (last) tribelle combo in part 4; then you could win 1470+220 points compared to the way i played. That means you could finish FC with 51890 points. :o

As for my plans, i´ll continue in LOTLD where i left off. More accuratly these are the steps:
1.) Find as many points as possible in part 2 and 3 (It doesn´t matter how hard or luck dependent the combos are) and record some attempts.
2.) Assuming we can get a new maximum, calculate the points we may lose so that it´ll be still worth to replay the level. Then use the points to make the extreme combos playable/easier. After that maybe make videos of the easier versions.
3.) Assuming all combos will be easy enough to be able to succeed in them, possibly play the level for a new maximum.
I have some doubts about step 3, but step 1 and 2 might work, at least i hope so.
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by Cut »

I would have to look into everything that Lance did in FC, unfortunately I don't remember most of it. Originally I intended to stick with 4450 after FC2, now you made me thinking...
1234 wrote:1.) Find as many points as possible in part 2 and 3 (It doesn´t matter how hard or luck dependent the combos are) and record some attempts.
I assume you want everything IPG-free in part 2? Because I attempted some new stuff there recently and If worked out completely, it could make up another 1 or 2k, but I guess if you were using the IPG already, you probably would not even be looking for further extra points anymore. Haven't done the math yet, but I could imagine.

Also you shouldn't worry too much about the combos being too hard. Of course that's a huge deal, but the current maximum combo actually gives you a lot of tolerable difficulty for the part 3 combos, since that one is ridiculous too (which is quite different to how TOTL, CF and even HH have changed when the huge improvements were found). BTW MandM, have you finished that one yet?
1234
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by 1234 »

Cut wrote:I would have to look into everything that Lance did in FC, unfortunately I don't remember most of it. Originally I intended to stick with 4450 after FC2, now you made me thinking...
If you want to get more than 4450 points, you´ll have to either a) improve the dwarf combo by including the gem of the single dwarf near the trunk in the combo (+50 points) or b) improving the matuvu combo by beginning with the 2 gems near the matuvu and continue as usual (+90 points), or by changing the ending of same combo a little bit (+40 or +60 points).
Lance played the matuvu combo completely different, but i doubt that it´s really doable in real time.

As for remembering the combos, i also often forget some of them. That´s why i will try to record some attempts of the currently best combos in FC somewhen, so that we can keep them in mind. In case someone else wants to record these combos, it´d be also very great.
By now, in case it should help, i can only give a link to one of my previous posts, where i made the combo schemes for the new combos. Combo schemes for FC. Sadly it doesn´t show any details, so it´s not too useful.
Cut wrote:I assume you want everything IPG-free in part 2? Because I attempted some new stuff there recently and If worked out completely, it could make up another 1 or 2k, but I guess if you were using the IPG already, you probably would not even be looking for further extra points anymore. Haven't done the math yet, but I could imagine.
Actually i would like to investigate both cases, so i´ll also search for an IPG-solution. When you have any ideas for it (or any ideas for any parts/combos in general), it´s always welcome. :wink:
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by Hunchman801 »

Maz wrote:the even-more-piece-of-shit Matuvu-Combo (I mean, just look at that thing)
Shit, that's one of the most badass combos I've ever seen.
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by Haruka »

Hunchman801 wrote:
Maz wrote:the even-more-piece-of-shit Matuvu-Combo (I mean, just look at that thing)
Shit, that's one of the most badass combos I've ever seen.
Impressive :o.
Cut
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by Cut »

#StillWaiting :cry:
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by GOT4N »

Hey I was wondering, what is the rule about glitches on Scoring?
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by Cut »

There is not really one, I guess if you ask like that you're probably looking to submit your score to the Hall of Fame, and I can't help you out on that, since the ruling in there really depends on whether MandM has had a good day or not. You should touch base with him to be on the safe side.

It also depends on what you're comfortable with and what not. The IPG for instance messes up some gameplay-mechanics that require getting used to them for entire levels, although it's not that bad. The Playable Camera Glitch however messes up gameplay so heavily (and apparently it's very complicated to abuse it for scoring anyway) that I just decided not to use it whatsoever. It's a question of total score also, if you're not in the range of 800k points I'd suggest don't worry about these things at all and just go with what you think is best. Beating 800k is easily possible with stuff that has been discovered within 2003/2004, so that's far away from the glitch arguments we had in the past.
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by GOT4N »

Cut wrote:There is not really one, I guess if you ask like that you're probably looking to submit your score to the Hall of Fame, and I can't help you out on that, since the ruling in there really depends on whether MandM has had a good day or not. You should touch base with him to be on the safe side.

It also depends on what you're comfortable with and what not. The IPG for instance messes up some gameplay-mechanics that require getting used to them for entire levels, although it's not that bad. The Playable Camera Glitch however messes up gameplay so heavily (and apparently it's very complicated to abuse it for scoring anyway) that I just decided not to use it whatsoever. It's a question of total score also, if you're not in the range of 800k points I'd suggest don't worry about these things at all and just go with what you think is best. Beating 800k is easily possible with stuff that has been discovered within 2003/2004, so that's far away from the glitch arguments we had in the past.
Okay thanks, I still have to redo the game to post my score first haha
also, long time ago I said R3 HD combo meter was shorter than other versions, has anyone confirmed it?
I checked back my score on R3HD (I was like 24th 3-4 days after release):
FC : 21413
CF : 48034
BoM : 28910
LoTLD: 71743
DoTK: 52594
LS : 30839
Summit of the Beyond Couds: 28793
HHQ: 27591
ToTL: 38004
Total: 347921
Can you tell me if there's anything good there for a medium score?
Cut
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by Cut »

GOT4N wrote:FC : 21413
CF : 48034
BoM : 28910
LoTLD: 71743
DoTK: 52594
LS : 30839
Summit of the Beyond Couds: 28793
HHQ: 27591
ToTL: 38004
Total: 347921
Alright, so R3HD might become trouble here, since as far as I'm concerned, this version doesn't have an 100k-border implemented (well, "implemented", it's actually a glitch in the original version, but a very good one), which makes scoring extremely awkward once you reach higher regions. Currently, you're at a state where losing your savegame and redoing everything isn't a loss at all, since you would improve your score in every level anyway. So if you're interested in comparing your scores with other people on the forums, I'd highly recommend grabbing an original version of Rayman 3 (I can send you one aswell if you want. No need to pay for a 13 year old game). If you're just looking for a good time for your own, you might stick with R3HD anyway though. I think most of your improvements right now can be made if you improve your understanding of the scoring mechanisms, such as the combo-multiplier. Your LS-score exposes that, since you seem to collect all the secret rooms, but you can easily improve your score to 40k in there by Having at least a 30-combo open when you kill the shoe in LS1, take the blue can, run towards the secret, take all yellow gems and then the green ones. Because if you do it like that, the green gems will be in 11th and 12th position, which means they will be for 9000 in combo (1500 x2 (Blue Can) x3 (11th - 15th element counts 3 times) = 9000) rather than 6000. Getting 40k in LS is the only real target you should set yourself right now, since it's very easy to pull of and you will never have to play this level again for a long time. Mainly look around in rooms, figure out what you can do there and use your knowledge about how to get the most out of the elements that count for a lot of points, mainly hoodlums and green gems. Your HHQ-score shows this off as well, with the amount of Hoodlums worth 250 in there and the 2 green gems in part 2, you should be able to pull of an easy 40k without putting much effort into this level from a skill-perspective. Just play mindfully and you will reach the 400k and 500k-regions fast.
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by GOT4N »

Cut wrote:
GOT4N wrote:FC : 21413
CF : 48034
BoM : 28910
LoTLD: 71743
DoTK: 52594
LS : 30839
Summit of the Beyond Couds: 28793
HHQ: 27591
ToTL: 38004
Total: 347921
Alright, so R3HD might become trouble here, since as far as I'm concerned, this version doesn't have an 100k-border implemented (well, "implemented", it's actually a glitch in the original version, but a very good one), which makes scoring extremely awkward once you reach higher regions. Currently, you're at a state where losing your savegame and redoing everything isn't a loss at all, since you would improve your score in every level anyway. So if you're interested in comparing your scores with other people on the forums, I'd highly recommend grabbing an original version of Rayman 3 (I can send you one aswell if you want. No need to pay for a 13 year old game). If you're just looking for a good time for your own, you might stick with R3HD anyway though. I think most of your improvements right now can be made if you improve your understanding of the scoring mechanisms, such as the combo-multiplier. Your LS-score exposes that, since you seem to collect all the secret rooms, but you can easily improve your score to 40k in there by Having at least a 30-combo open when you kill the shoe in LS1, take the blue can, run towards the secret, take all yellow gems and then the green ones. Because if you do it like that, the green gems will be in 11th and 12th position, which means they will be for 9000 in combo (1500 x2 (Blue Can) x3 (11th - 15th element counts 3 times) = 9000) rather than 6000. Getting 40k in LS is the only real target you should set yourself right now, since it's very easy to pull of and you will never have to play this level again for a long time. Mainly look around in rooms, figure out what you can do there and use your knowledge about how to get the most out of the elements that count for a lot of points, mainly hoodlums and green gems. Your HHQ-score shows this off as well, with the amount of Hoodlums worth 250 in there and the 2 green gems in part 2, you should be able to pull of an easy 40k without putting much effort into this level from a skill-perspective. Just play mindfully and you will reach the 400k and 500k-regions fast.
actually this is my old save, my current save on GC version has around same point, but I'm gonna try working on my points, thanks for the help, I tried redoing FC, but max I got was 23146 points haha
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Re: Rayman 3 scores

Post by 1234 »

I still haven´t finished LOTLD 2 yet, but now that the topic "reappeared" i might give a few updates. The problem, besides time, was/is that the combos i have in mind are completely horrible to play, partly because basically the whole part consists of glitches (6 different, 12 in total). Furthermore i had recorded most of the videos, but then i came up with better combos and now i have to redo almost all of them. :roll:

The most improvements are sadly just thanks to glitches: In the 1st area there is the superswim glitch (or however it´s called) and in the 2nd and 3rd area (balloon room, and grim keeper room) there are two ESJ which allow you to get out of bounds.
So basically you always use the two ESJs to return to the 1st area, then get the lockjaw, activate the superswim glitch, swim whereever you like and play the combos with a powerup:

Grim keeper combo: You swim to the upper platform of the 3rd area, get the single yellow gem, kill the grim keeper below in combo and finish with the piggybank and the red gem; all with the lockjaw. (1240 points)
Secret room combo: You swim to the secret room. Then, while swimming, you collect most of the yellow gems which are at your height (As you know, you can´t swim up- or downwards). Then you can get one of the throttle copter powerups and collect the rest, still in the same combo. (13630 points)
Last room combo: You swim to the grim keeper room. Then quickly run to the last room (This way should be faster, than swimming directly to the last room). Now you can play the combo with the lockjaw at the beginning, the powerup will run out at some point though (Testing and recording it won´t be fun :P ). You can also kill the very last hoodblaster (the one with the yellow can) with the shock rocket in time. You just have to quickly kill the hoodboom before. (depending on where the lockjaw will run out, i´d say 5500-6000 points)

I succeeded in all these combos, so they´re possible. The only problematic combo is the first one of the part. The idea is to combine the balloon combo with the matuvu-tribelle combo by killing the last hoodstormer (from the balloon combo) from a great distance, then perform a SJ and kill one of the two hoodblaster (from the matuvu-tribelle combo) in time. Then you can continue with the rest. (In the optimal case 24020 points)
Also we shouldn´t forget the wooden door. (20 points)

→ The maximum in part 2 should be between 44k and 45k, however in case the idea for the 1st combo won´t work, the score might be a little bit lower.
The maximum in part 1 is 45930 by now and part 3 should give us at least 32810 points (considering the final combo will work completely, because that might be a problem). With all the old ideas even more than 40k points would be possible in part 3, however it´s very unlikely.
I will assume the 1st combo in part 2 and the final combo in part 3 will work:
→ Worst case: 45930 + 44k + 32810 = 122,740
→ Best case: 45930 + 45k + 40k = about 131k (However the maximum could go only up to 126k)
That means a new maximum is more than likely :D , only the part of the final combo, where you have to use three piggybanks to keep the combo alive, makes me doubt.
With the IPG you can get even more points in part 2 (over 2k more), so maybe 126k in LOTLD will be possible soon?
From June onwards i´ll have (for some time) much more free time, so i´ll be more active then and probably finish the investigations and videos in LOTLD part 2 and 3. Then i´ll also improve my score and start investigating some other levels. :)
GOT4N wrote:I tried redoing FC, but max I got was 23146 points haha
Not too bad. :wink: When you´ll always try to make the combos as long as possible, take worthful items (matuvu, tribelle, green gem, ...), if possible, at the end of a combo and always get a powerup before you start a combo, you´ll surely improve your score very quickly by many points; you even don´t need to use any complicated combos or glitches.
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