Rayman 1

[Rayfist]

I gave thought to something recently:
I recently got a boxed copy of one of the education Rayman 1 Titles: Amazing Learning Games with Rayman (PC)

I sort of had to ask the question to myself: "Why do I give a fuck for these educational spinoffs?"
I think a big reason why I'm so fascinated by these spinoffs, is some of the few exclusive things these titles had (different world maps, some new stories, even new assets.) It's very interesting to me some of the things added to the educational titles.

I think what I find so fascinating about R1's universe is not just the first game itself but it's many spinoffs. I feel like I'm discovering something new about Rayman 1. I had totally forgot that "English with Rayman" and even "French with Rayman" was a thing until recently. The amount of R1 spinoffs made for educational purposes feel like a franchise on its own because of how huge it is. I'm just curious if anyone feels the same way I do about this about the educational titles.

[THEdragon]

I feel the exact same way, Rayfist.

[RayCarrot]

In a way I do too, but I've never really bothered starting to collect them due to how similar a lot of them are. Eventually it'd just seem like I'd be buying the same game over and over again in just a different language and with a few minor differences. Though I do really want to give a few of these educational games a try some day and see how they are.

[Electoon]

I'm very interested in the Rayman educational titles, especially as they mean there are more games in the Rayman 1 universe.

I remember the day when Dad presented Math's and English with Rayman to my brother and I by dramatically reading the story to us (we were already grinning at each other at the first mention of Mr. Dark). Back when I first played, I loved the story, the Betilla's Gardens maps and hearing Betilla talk English for the first time, but couldn't get along with the actual maps (I was still a beginner gamer, and for a educational game, the maps do contain challenging platforming).

Having childhood memories of that game did my help my interest in them, and then finding out that there was lots of other odd tidbits and characters in the games like Andrew set my interest to an all time high - I had to find out more about these unusual entries to the Rayman franchise and share them with the world where they were poorly documented! And that lead me to making my Youtube channel dedicated to playthroughs of things like English with Rayman and Rayman Activity Centre. I still find sharing these obscure Rayman titles with others one of the most fun things I do online.

And then there's a fact that a large portion of my dissertation focuses on Rayman Junior...

[need my speed]

And then there's a fact that a large portion of my dissertation focuses on Rayman Junior...

I would like to hear - or, as the case may be, read - more about that, if that is possible.

[jurebj]

I have finally beaten this game.

[Haruka]

I sort of had to ask the question to myself: "Why do I give a fuck for these educational spinoffs?"
I think a big reason why I'm so fascinated by these spinoffs, is some of the few exclusive things these titles had (different world maps, some new stories, even new assets.) It's very interesting to me some of the things added to the educational titles.

I think what I find so fascinating about R1's universe is not just the first game itself but it's many spinoffs. I feel like I'm discovering something new about Rayman 1. I had totally forgot that "English with Rayman" and even "French with Rayman" was a thing until recently. The amount of R1 spinoffs made for educational purposes feel like a franchise on its own because of how huge it is. I'm just curious if anyone feels the same way I do about this about the educational titles.

I feel that way too! Though I am very selective in my choices. I would like to find Learning French with Rayman myself.

[The_Real_Razorbeard]

I have...mixed feelings about Rayman 1. I got it at some point in my childhood, though I don't quite remember when, at a point where we had Windows 98, which, due to Rayman 1's age, already had some issues running it. I either got the sound effects, or the music, never both. Obviously, I preferred the music, but beggars couldn't be choosers. I went into it hoping for some connections to Rayman 2. Perhaps an explanation of where Globox or Ly came in, something like that. So it was really jarring to find out that the world and characters of 1 were almost completely unrelated. Still, the game's music and visuals were pleasant enough, so I gave it a go, regardless.

However, I had trouble beating Rayman 2 back in the day, and I think we all know how notoriously difficult this game could be. I had much less of a handle on my temper back then on top of that. So, needless to say, I found the game infuriating, though having cheat codes to skip around negated that somewhat, I wasn't the biggest fan, even if I did like the music. Plus, thanks to the ludicrous requirement to reach the Candy Chateau, I never got to see the ending myself, even if it was somewhat underwhelming in all reality.

The plot was laughable. A bare-bones saturday morning cartoon style premise clearly thought up late in development given all the weird press releases about the plot being some kid getting sucked into a video game earlier on. Sure, I didn't really complain at the time, but looking back now, it's astounding to think that this game lead to the dark, atmospheric story of Rayman 2. While Mr. Dark's design was decent, the game's somewhat squat, more cutesy art style robbed it of it's real potential in my opinion. Such is the case with most of the game's enemies, really.

Perhaps if I went through the game again today, my opinion would be different, but as it stands, to me, Rayman 1 is just kind of okay. I'm thankful for it for establishing the franchise obviously, but beyond that I don't have much love for it. I do like Moskito's design though, I'll say that much.

[Rayfist]

...Yeah, the PC port of Rayman 1 is really not great. Still enjoyable, but the issues that the ps1 version had were made worse in the PC version. The camera was even MORE zoomed in, making the bullshit unpredictable deaths even more bullshit. Either way, it's all trial and error, you can do it if you're consistent about it and memorize locations and deaths. Looking back at Rayman 1... I use to fanboy the hell out of it, hell, it's still regarded as one of my favorite games of all the time. But I can't deny the fact the game is filled with unpredictable BS that you'd need the reflex of a god to quickly react to. The difficulty relies far too much on trial and error rather than actual skill, which is bad game design.

Though, I too, even after going from R1 to R2 found it strange that R2 as a whole is just a completely different game. Very small references here and there (bzzit appears and electoons are in PS1 version), but other than this they are just completely different. It's very strange to me, almost like a reboot. And I think that's what I like so much about Rayman 2- it's a completely different game that acts almost as if Rayman 1 didn't exist, while introducing a brand new world. Even Rayman 3 is completely different from 2. It's interesting really, and in a sense reminds me of Final Fantasy (though not to the same extent) where each game just acts completely different from its predecessor. You could sort of look at Arena/M as a spinoff to Rayman 2 since most of the levels are based off the world of Rayman 2. I guess you can call this the Raytrilogy cycle.

The decision of whether Rayman should attempt a dark story/atmosphere has been a debatable one. I would love to see it attempted again! However looking back I think R3 sort of had a nice balance of the two. Things got pretty dark in the plot but it made situations sort of comedic a lot of the time.

[Adsolution]

...Yeah, the PC port of Rayman 1 is really not great. Still enjoyable, but the issues that the ps1 version had were made worse in the PC version. The camera was even MORE zoomed in, making the bullshit unpredictable deaths even more bullshit. Either way, it's all trial and error, you can do it if you're consistent about it and memorize locations and deaths. Looking back at Rayman 1... I use to fanboy the hell out of it, hell, it's still regarded as one of my favorite games of all the time. But I can't deny the fact the game is filled with unpredictable BS that you'd need the reflex of a god to quickly react to. The difficulty relies far too much on trial and error rather than actual skill, which is bad game design.

If anything, I think you've been far too swayed by Caddicarus's review. You know, given how you're quoting him verbatim on a lot of these points, and that while I agreed with some of his criticisms, some I didn't think were very true at all.

Yes, the game requires you to have good reflexes if you don't want to get hurt the first time around, but "the reflexes of a god" is a gross exaggeration. I beat the game when I was five or six, and my reflexes really aren't that great. As for the game containing trial-and-error, I legitimately cannot think of many points in the game where this is the case. One of the only instances I could think of (and it wasn't only since his review where he pointed it out) was the falling pencils sequence in Pencil Pentathlon.

In contrast to the number of people who had trouble with the game, I also know a fair number of people who didn't have that much trouble getting through it on their first playthrough, and it wasn't because they had exception reflexes, it was because they were good at the type of game that Rayman is. That almost single-handedly disproves the idea that Rayman is largely trial-and-error; if it were, these people would have undoubtedly had far more trouble.

I do like Moskito's design though, I'll say that much.

Ayee, he's my favourite character.

[The_Real_Razorbeard]

I think it's less that it's trial-and-error (most of the time, anyway) and more that it's just a lot harder than is really necessary/would be expected from something with such a cutesy, kid-friendly exterior.

The decision of whether Rayman should attempt a dark story/atmosphere has been a debatable one. I would love to see it attempted again! However looking back I think R3 sort of had a nice balance of the two. Things got pretty dark in the plot but it made situations sort of comedic a lot of the time.

I don't think R3 did what it set out to in-so-far as comedy terribly well, to be honest. While some injection of humor would be welcome, I think R3 could've stood to ease off a bit in the humor department. That and get a better person to write the jokes. Do that though, and I think that'd be a good start.

[Rayfist]

You know, given how you're quoting him verbatim on a lot of these points,

What? Only part I quoted was 'reflex of a god'? Can you find another? Anyways I said this because I find this to be almost true. It's impossible for anyone whose a skilled gamer to beat Rayman 1 without dying once. (Another example is the moving pencil sharpener while you have to quickly hit the objects before being hit by the pins, that of which you can't see on time due to how fast it's moving.) I understand you love R1, and I still love it too, but you can't deny it's glaring flaws.

fair number of people who didn't have that much trouble getting through it on their first playthrough, and it wasn't because they had exception reflexes, it was because they were good at the type of game that Rayman is. That almost single-handedly disproves the idea that Rayman is largely trial-and-error; if it were, these people would have undoubtedly had far more trouble.

When you're game is largely based around understanding what items will spawn in point A to avoid insta death or falling (or missing a cage if you're going for that true ending), then that's bad design. And yes, you can say "well most people I know-" but the general consensus is most people (like Razorbeard here) never finished the game due to the absurd and mostly unfair difficulty. This is coming from someone who largely likes high difficulty in games. Besides... trial and error isn't the only issue plaguing it's difficulty. And I can promise, Caddy didn't sway me, he only made me think about the things I never spoke up to as a kid. The things my inner fanboy would refuse to speak about to. These people you know are obviously fans of the series or really skilled gamers, you don't think that comes from a particular bias? I'm speaking from majority of casual gamers who seemingly agree with this. But like I said I think a LOT of these issues wouldn't be the case if the camera weren't so zoomed in.

All bullshit aside though, I think the way the difficulty leaps is really unbalanced. Dream forest REALLY doesn't slowly ease you into what to later expect for future worlds difficulty-wise. And on top of this you NEED to get every electoon in order to see the ending, a huge flaw in the game. Keep in mind, I obviously don't hate Rayman 1, I still love it, but I've always felt a certant way about the game that I was never wanting or willing to bring up.

[Adsolution]

Another example is the moving pencil sharpener while you have to quickly hit the objects before being hit by the pins, that of which you can't see on time due to how fast it's moving.

In most versions of the game there's a checkpoint immediately before that though.

When you're game is largely based around understanding what items will spawn in point A to avoid insta death or falling

Firstly, I am indeed game. Secondly, like I said, the only genuine instance of this I can think of is that one spot in Pencil Pentathlon. If you wanted me to be harsher, I could include the couple of falling lava rocks in the last area of Mr Stone's Peaks and the second area of Eat at Joe's, but even then, they always spawn off-screen well ahead of you; they require moderately quick reflexes to avoid the first time you see them, but nothing crazy. They always spawn in the exact same spots, and are never placed in a scenario that could cause instant death.

(or missing a cage if you're going for that true ending)

You'll find all the cages if you just explore everywhere though.

These people you know are obviously fans of the series or really skilled gamers,

Not really. They're pretty good, but not super hardcore or anything.

I'm speaking from majority of casual gamers who seemingly agree with this.

They're going into a game that appears super casual on the surface, only to later find out that it isn't really. That's not really a fault of the game.

But like I said I think a LOT of these issues wouldn't be the case if the camera weren't so zoomed in.

It's a little zoomed in, yeah, though I think the only scenarios where this can really present an issue is when you're going .

Dream forest REALLY doesn't slowly ease you into what to later expect for future worlds difficulty-wise.

It does if you actually finish the Dream Forest first. Most people like to just rush straight from Anguish Lagoon to Bongo Hills and then flip their desks.

And on top of this you NEED to get every electoon in order to see the ending, a huge flaw in the game.

I don't think that's a flaw at all. Even if you get no cages, you still get to play 95% of the game through. I think it would've been nice if they'd made it clear from the start that this was a requirement, but like said before, you'll find all the cages if you simply explore every corner of every level; the levels aren't that big.

[Rayfist]

In most versions of the game there's a checkpoint immediately before that though.

Likely to still die repeatedly though.

I don't think that's a flaw at all. Even if you get no cages, you still get to play 95% of the game through. I think it would've been nice if they'd made it clear from the start that this was a requirement, but like said before, you'll find all the cages if you simply explore every corner of every level; the levels aren't that big.

No, I think they should've gone about offering two endings. One for normal players, and one for completionists. The fact that you can ONLY SEE the ending if you do every fucking requirement is ridiculous. Not every player wants to be forced to go for 100% in order to see, not a true ending, but an ending. Majority of the people I know who've actually BEAT this game are people on this forum, I've never met anyone outside in my life that actually fully beat the game. Friends of mine like Chris (who play really fucking hard games like Dark Souls and SMT), quickly put down Rayman because of the quick increase in difficulty, barely at all leaning you into it. And oh, excuse me, I'll be sure to check every nook and cranny for the cages. Some of which appear with annoying requirements (and make for constant, unfun backtracking.)

Not really. They're pretty good, but not super hardcore or anything.

So who are these people because I've never heard of them?

and are never placed in a scenario that could cause instant death.

I'm talking insta, as in falling to death, which a lot of the later levels love to throw those. And since you have heavy knockback, this makes simple platforming become very difficult. The section before space mama is pretty bullshitty if you need an example.

It does if you actually finish the Dream Forest first. Most people like to just rush straight from Anguish Lagoon to Bongo Hills and then flip their desks.

Even if you finish Dream forest I still think it definitely doesn't prepare you for the later parts of Band Land. That section at Allegro Presto with all the platforms (good level design btw), can easily be beat if you're just to slow down, but it's an absolute pace breaker, well anyways that's another thing in itself. Point is, when the SECOND world already throws all this shit at you, it's easy to see why people start to put it down.

If this comes across as me arguing R1 is too hard, it isn't. My problem is the difficulty itself and how they 'mask' the fact of it being hard by throwing unfair shit at you WAY too early in the game. When the series creator himself struggles to make it through the second fucking world, something ain't right.

[Adsolution]

Likely to still die repeatedly though.

If you die more than once or twice, that can really only be attributed to the player either sucking or somehow not understanding how exactly the fist controls even after having beaten 80% of the game.

On a side-note, I think Picture City should've been the last world before Candy Château, since I think it is a lot harder than the Caves.

No, I think they should've gone about offering two endings. One for normal players, and one for completionists. The fact that you can ONLY SEE the ending if you do every fucking requirement is ridiculous. Not every player wants to be forced to go for 100% in order to see, not a true ending, but an ending.

The developers decided that exploration should be a necessary component to completing the game. It's unusual, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

So who are these people because I've never heard of them?

Well I'm obviously not going to use names on a forum. But yes, you've definitely heard of one of them.

I'm talking insta, as in falling to death, which a lot of the later levels love to throw those. And since you have heavy knockback, this makes simple platforming become very difficult.

Every Mega Man game is littered with this exact kind of gameplay. I've never once heard you complain about it.

The section before space mama is pretty bullshitty if you need an example.

Not a single obstacle in that level moves or is even remotely deceptive, the entire level is laid out in front of you in a completely static, literal fashion. Yes, the jumps are quite precise, but it's not like Mario where you have to worry about your momentum, you're fully in control. Again, I would compare the area to something from Mega Man.

Even if you finish Dream forest I still think it definitely doesn't prepare you for the later parts of Band Land.

Well yeah, the earlier parts of Band Land prepare you for the later parts of Band Land.

That section at Allegro Presto with all the platforms (good level design btw), can easily be beat if you're just to slow down, but it's an absolute pace breaker

How is it a pace-breaker? That's literally not a complaint. There is no indication in that area that you're supposed to go fast, nor is there any disadvantage to going slowly.

Point is, when the SECOND world already throws all this shit at you, it's easy to see why people start to put it down.

I think one world (the longest one, actually) gives you plenty of time to warm up before you get to the real meat of the game.

When the series creator himself struggles to make it through the second fucking world, something ain't right.

How? A lot of developers suck at their own games for some reason. Ancel even sucks ass at Rayman 2.

[Rayfist]

The developers decided that exploration should be a necessary component to completing the game. It's unusual, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Perhaps, but I speak on behalf of a lot of people who probably at least would've preferred something for their efforts. The game is already (at least for a platformer in that era) pretty fucking tough, so you don't think ANYTHING should be rewarded for that effort at the very least? I do like how they use that opportunity to motivate the player to get all the cages (with Betilla being captured), but cmon...

The developers decided that exploration should be a necessary component to completing the game. It's unusual, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

You could argue this with the original Crash/Spyro games too though since the real ending is not unlocked UNLESS you go after every collectible. I get what you're saying though. Developers want you to explore every nook and cranny of Rayman to fight the final boss and get the true ending. But I still don't really like the idea. Sorry.

Well I'm obviously not going to use names on a forum. But yes, you've definitely heard of one of them.

Alex.

Every Mega Man game is littered with this exact kind of gameplay. I've never once heard you complain about it.

When the fuck did I ever say Megaman was a perfect game? I admit I'm a tad of a fanboy for the series, but no way did I ever say the classic ones were perfect. I suppose next you're gonna tell me I think the one hit kill spikes are perfectly acceptable.

Well yeah, the earlier parts of Band Land prepare you for the later parts of Band Land.

You can't possibly tell me the second world ramping up excessively in difficulty is good design. I think this would have been way more excusable for Blue Mountains but Band Land? The issue is Rayman's difficulty is ALL over the place. Dream Forest is easy, Band Lands ramps up to hard, Blue Mountains is for the most part, fairly easy going in comparison, ramps up once again with Picture City, then goes back to fairly easy going with the Caves (except for Eat at Joes). That's just weird.

How is it a pace-breaker? That's literally not a complaint. There is no indication in that area that you're supposed to go fast, nor is there any disadvantage to going slowly.

The whole level is designed around speedy gameplay (inb4 Sonic is brought up). I simply think something better could've been done for that part, don't you agree? A bunch of random slippery platforms in the air just seems to be a tad lazy.

How? A lot of developers suck at their own games for some reason. Ancel even sucks ass at Rayman 2.

It's definitely natural to suck at a game having not played it in years, but Ancel, even reaching World 2, couldn't even get use to many of the things the game throws, when normally, most developers would adapt at that point. I think Ancel started playing fine at 2 during the later parts due to getting used to the controls. I know he didn't even reach half the game in 1. I don't know, but I've seen most developers been able to pick up fine (not amazing though) after not much playing, not sure what developers you watched.

[Sabertooth]

When the series creator himself struggles to make it through the second fucking world, something ain't right.

When was this?

[Rayfist]

When was this?

Footage starts at around 14:48 (just skip OCG's commentary)

[Adsolution]

Alex.

No.

When the fuck did I ever say Megaman was a perfect game? I admit I'm a tad of a fanboy for the series, but no way did I ever say the classic ones were perfect. I suppose next you're gonna tell me I think the one hit kill spikes are perfectly acceptable.

I wasn't actually talking Mega Man down there, I have almost literally no complaints about Mega Man's level design in that respect - nor do I Rayman's. I think people are far too stingy about what they think constitutes as fair level design. Avoid the damn spike balls lol, it's really not that hard.

The issue is Rayman's difficulty is ALL over the place. Dream Forest is easy, Band Lands ramps up to hard, Blue Mountains is for the most part, fairly easy going in comparison, ramps up once again with Picture City, then goes back to fairly easy going with the Caves (except for Eat at Joes). That's just weird.

Yeah, I agree, though I don't think sticking the Blue Mountains before Band Land (for instance) would allow the player to be that much better at Band Land. Maybe like 10% better?

The whole level is designed around speedy gameplay

Well kind of; you can go fast in the third area, but there are clearly sections where you're supposed to take your time and do some careful platforming. There is nothing that states that the general idea around a level has to circumference it from beginning to end with nothing to break it up.

(inb4 Sonic is brought up).

Too late -> My first reply.

I simply think something better could've been done for that part, don't you agree? A bunch of random slippery platforms in the air just seems to be a tad lazy.

I notice you commonly criticise the idea of random floating platforms/worlds in games, but I think there's a certain simple, surrealistic beauty to them you're maybe not feeling. As for level design, the platforms are clearly laid out in a meaningful way, so they're not actually that random.

[Haruka]

Just sharing here a portuguese review of Rayman 1 that was done in a popular TV program I used to watch back in my childhood.

I find funny that they complain that the character "is a bit slow". They probably did not reach the running power obtention phase . They also said it is a game "that will take some weeks to complete with lots of sweat and tears."!

It is right on the start:
Side note: It is wierd that they are pronouncing the name like in English. In Portuguese he could have said it in "our way".