Doctor Who

[Rsandee]

I was also disappointed in the Monk trilogy, pretty much for the reason you described, especially because it was a three-episode story arc.
I keep thinking of my favorite TV moment ever, and it's in Season 1 of the new series of Doctor Who no less. I absolutely love how they constructed the storyline of S1, with Bad Wolf. Bad Wolf was such a huge revelation for me, I've never had that absolute feeling of dread before or after I saw it for the first time. The "return" of Bad Wolf in S4 (I believe?) got close to recreating that moment, you could see it in the Doctor's eyes how incredibly scared he was when he slowly realized it was the "Bad Wolf". Good acting.

[Master]

Well, here it is, the grand finale of the Moffat Era. And, well...either typically or tragically, it seems to be divisive. I will say that I'm on the side that liked it.

From the get-go, if anyone does plan on watching it, do not expect a high stakes final episode like "The End of Time" or "The Time of the Doctor." If you want that part, I'd say watch the Series 10 finale. This feels more like an epilogue, which means it's somewhat introspective and very fanwanky (in the sense that it plays to nostalgia). There's musical cues and references to past galore, and I've heard tracks that haven't been used since the early RTD era. It makes sense, especially since I've heard that Murray Gold, the fella who's been responsible for NuWho's music since the beginning, is also leaving.

Going to be honest, the meat of the plot wasn't very substantive, it feels more like a tool to help the Doctor come to terms with regeneration. Rather than a final enemy or danger. Like I said, don't expect the episode to be as high stakes as 11 and 10s finales. But at the same time, I don't think it's really needed. Moffat never really had any grand overarching plotlines with 12, compared to stuff like the Trenzalore or Silence arcs. As such, I don't think there really needed to be any resolution to past plotlines, only thing needing resolving was the Doctor coming to terms with regenerating.

I liked the 1st Doctor overall, but they really stretched out making fun of 1960s attitudes. It got cringeworthy at points. Likewise, I found Bill's part in the story to be a little unnecessary, and I'd rather she just appeared at the end to see the 12th Doctor off, as Nardole and Clara did. Those points aside, I did like the references made to things like Rusty, or the Doctor's previous feats.

As for the regeneration. It was good. I was worried that Moffat would take too much inspiration from RTD's send off and have the Doctor be a bit clingy at the end, as 10 was. And that whole sequence with him visiting past companions. That's not to say Moffat doesn't do anything similar, we have goodbyes with 12's companions, but I felt it was more to help 12 be at peace and less him doing it for the "reward," for want of a better word. 12 seems content at the end, and much like 11, goes off with a speech that feels like a message to fans to accept the new. And then the change happened. It's probably one of the better regeneration effects, don't think it beats 9->10, but better than the ones we've had in recent years. AND DAMN IT. I knew it was going to happen, but I am really going to miss 12's TARDIS. I really hope Chibnall takes cues from it for the next design.

As for 13, it's interesting to note that they didn't have her comment on her appearance. The only thing she said was "Oh, brilliant," in a very 10ish way. I'm hoping it's not going to entirely be the case, as while I was expecting a more 10 like Doctor, especially after 12's abrasiveness, I don't want her to be a female version of 10. She needs to be her own Doctor, take inspiration from the past, but don't make her a genderswapped version of a past version. Obviously, this is going off very little, and I hope she does grow into her own incarnation. But at the same time, I am a little apprehensive given 10's popularity and the possibility of bowing to pressure.

And so, we fall into a new era of Doctor Who. From what I've read, Chibnall wrote the post-regen scene, much like how Moffat wrote 11's post-regen. And looking at it, it seems promising. Of course, we'll have to wait for Series 11 to see how it turns out proper. I've no doubt that we'll be seeing changes soon, such as a new logo at some point. But to Moffat, for all his ups and downs, I thank him for running Doctor Who over my teenage and early adult years. He's had his bad episodes, but he's given some classic ones. My thanks to Capaldi for being such a wonderful Doctor. It's going to take an effort to dethrone him as my favourite.

[Rsandee]

Capaldi is my favorite doctor as well. I really want to give the new one a chance but it's pretty hard for me to set aside my numerous bad experiences with modern (RADICAL) feminism. I know it's ridiculous that in what, 12-13 generations not one of them has been a woman until now, but in the current political climate it's simply worrying me. To illustrate what I mean, let's look at other TV shows that are being "inspired" by the same movement, more specifically all shows in the "arrowverse". Both "The Flash" and "Legends of Tomorrow" have had disastrously bad feminist episodes the past month, going as far as to literally make the lead (female) actors say: "Remind me how men are needed again?" and "They've never known war on that island because no man has ever stepped foot on it". This, coupled with the fact that I in no way feel adressed by the common stereotypes of men they constantly portray, make me feel absolutely fucking disgusted and sick to my stomach. DW has steadily been going down the same route and I simply can't stand my favorite TV shows being corrupted by politics, especially movements that fail to see things from different perspectives.

I really hope it won't be as bad as I think it will. It was a good episode either way, not nostalgic to me in the slightest because I've never seen the old DW series before Eccleston. It was good to see Clara again and I liked the episode about coming to terms with death, as I simply saw this as the death of my favorite doctor.

[Matyuv]

Started watching this show (the 2005 series) in a rather weird order. Tried the first season and couldn't get into it, jumped to season 10 to see if that made a difference. It did, so then I watched season 9 and season 8 after that... luckily the viewing order doesn't matter too much. Season 9 is the better one of these three I feel.

Gonna try one of the earlier seasons again, maybe a Tennant one, and see how that goes.

[Master]

So, the new Doctor Who logo has been unveiled:

It's quite different to the NuWho logos we've had thus far:




But I have to say, I actually think it looks pretty neat. Going to miss the old DW TARDIS symbol though.

EDIT:

Hmm, like the mysterious vibe they've gone for this image. I'm still a bit worried we'll see a complete pivot back to the RTD bombasticness, and while I don't begrudge RTD for it, since his was the era that got me into the show, I don't want a complete retread of 10.

[Adsolution]

ya ye i like the new loughgough more

question for dr poo people : is whateve this new season is continuing story, or would it be a good place to hop on? would it be confusing? is it on netflix?? answer my easily googlable questionz

[Master]

It's continuing the story, but it'll most likely be a good jumping on point given how it's a new era and it's probable that they'll start with a relatively blank slate for newcomers, Moffat did something similar when he took over from RTD for Series 5. That being said, it isn't on until October apparently, so we're in for a bit of a wait.

As for if it's on Netflix, I'm not wholly sure, IIRC it's regional, so one region might have stuff another doesn't. I recall Hoodcom being able to watch it on Amazon Prime Video.

[Adsolution]

Ah, cool. I want to get into the series (I feel that it has a fanbase with a lot to talk about), so I'll give it a shot, but no guarantees (though I will try...!). The thing that probably turned me off the most before was our grade 11 math teacher who always played random episodes in class, I guess not really taking into account the fact that it doesn't appear to work like that at all.

---

Wow, I was just on Wikipedia, and this has to be the longest article on a fictional character I've ever seen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doctor_(Doctor_Who)

[Master]

In fairness, not all episodes are part of a greater canon, there's those episodes which are purely just general adventuring. Though canon is a bit of a fickle thing when it comes to Doctor Who.

[Reese Riverson]

Ah, cool. I want to get into the series (I feel that it has a fanbase with a lot to talk about), so I'll give it a shot, but no guarantees (though I will try...!). The thing that probably turned me off the most before was our grade 11 math teacher who always played random episodes in class, I guess not really taking into account the fact that it doesn't appear to work like that at all.

---

Wow, I was just on Wikipedia, and this has to be the longest article on a fictional character I've ever seen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doctor_(Doctor_Who)

I can certainly relate, while I've watched a season and a half worth, based on Master's recommendation, I've not been 'hooked' onto it, like I have say Digimon for example.

To be honest the first episode I had seen it felt a bit confusing of the series, but I did grow to like it. It's very different compared to what I've watched in the past and I like it, it's just not something I'm a huge fanatic about like some others are. I would still recommend it though regardless.

[Master]

Ooh, today's the day! Weeks and months of anticipation, many a post conveying my increasing excitement, and now, we've arrived, at 19:50 GMT, the Day of the Doctor will air simultaneously across the world!

Jesus...10 years ago. And here we are now, Happy 60th Doctor Who. I'm looking forward to seeing the special this Saturday. It'll be like old times (fr cause it's got the same actors that I started with xD)

[Reese Riverson]

Jesus...10 years ago. And here we are now, Happy 60th Doctor Who. I'm looking forward to seeing the special this Saturday. It'll be like old times (fr cause it's got the same actors that I started with xD)

Oh wow, is it the 60th anniversary of Doctor Who already? Man dude.

I still remember you getting me into at least one of the series of Doctor Who. The one with Matt Smith, if I remember the name correctly. I do enjoy it a lot, even if I'm not as big into the series as you are.

[Rsandee]

David Tennant as the 14th doctor let's gooooooooo

[Master]

Indeed, but only for the next three EPs xD
I'll admit Capaldi's still my personal fav, but the clips I've seen of the upcoming episodes really remind me of the 2008 days when I first started watching

Jesus...10 years ago. And here we are now, Happy 60th Doctor Who. I'm looking forward to seeing the special this Saturday. It'll be like old times (fr cause it's got the same actors that I started with xD)

Oh wow, is it the 60th anniversary of Doctor Who already? Man dude.

I still remember you getting me into at least one of the series of Doctor Who. The one with Matt Smith, if I remember the name correctly. I do enjoy it a lot, even if I'm not as big into the series as you are.

Well if you're thinking of jumping back in, this new series coming up will be a good jumping on point as it's the beginning of a new era, last time this happened was 2018.

[Reese Riverson]

David Tennant as the 14th doctor let's gooooooooo

I think that's the one my local friend was obsessed with, if I remember correctly. She had the hots for him.

Well if you're thinking of jumping back in, this new series coming up will be a good jumping on point as it's the beginning of a new era, last time this happened was 2018.

Oh yeah? I may have to have you fill me in on that then, since I don't keep up with Doctor Who like you do, I might be interested in seeing how things go.

[Master]

Doctor Who knows wtf is going on anymore...

I'm always going to follow the show because even when it's not at its best, I still find it compelling. But as much as I did enjoy some of the last series, dear lord does it feel like the Shark is being lept over.

Fun fact, This is the first time we've had the Doctor regenerate in a regular series episode since 2005...every Doctor's regeneration following up until now was in a special episode

[Rsandee]

Doctor Who knows wtf is going on anymore...

I'm always going to follow the show because even when it's not at its best, I still find it compelling. But as much as I did enjoy some of the last series, dear lord does it feel like the Shark is being lept over.

Fun fact, This is the first time we've had the Doctor regenerate in a regular series episode since 2005...every Doctor's regeneration following up until now was in a special episode

I absolutely tapped out 100%. The last episode I've seen was devoid of anything that made DW Doctor Who. I mean, space babies!? Really!? It was so insulting, especially when you consider they were probably meant to represent the part of the fanbase that didn't support this new version of Doctor Who since Chibnall's tenure.

They will never accept most people didn't like Chibnall's tenure, not for Jodie Whittaker's performance or the fact that she's a woman, but because Chris Chibnall is an absolute hack that can't write a decent story in his life. I was very charmed by Jodie's performance and there are even some episodes I thoroughly enjoyed so much that I consider them modern classics (none of them are written by Chibnall, but that goes without saying). One of the funniest moments that comes to mind is reversal of the dog-human relationship through Karvanista and Dan Lewis. I've never been a fan of the new master though, I found it cringey and uninteresting. I liked the David Tennant Christmas specials except for the Meep episode (terribad) and the bigeneration thing. I think it's a lame idea that they only acted on because they wanted to shelf David Tennant for when times are rough and their plans don't work out too well.

Don't get me started on that underhanded comment about "male representing time lords" in the Meep episode. It was uncalled for and totally unneeded. We get it, there are bigots on youtube. They don't represent the entire fanbase/viewerbase. They're getting clicks because the BBC is not listening and they're doubling down on their bs instead. Davros isn't even in a wheelchair anymore!? Because that would reflect badly on actual disabled, I mean differently abled people? Now you're just blatantly looking for problems where there are none! Now you're just virtue signalling and making the "woke" movement so ridiculous and so over the top, that it is beyond parody and you're just giving these bigots more ammunition to work with.

I don't recognize the show anymore either and I saw the new regeneration clip yesterday. I would be excited to see more of Billie Piper if I were still interested in the show but I am not. I don't trust this show to deliver quality anymore, it's just slop to me now. I think they're just using good old fashioned, true and tried fanservice to reign people back in. It won't work, obviously. They're not interested in Doctor Who as a show, but as a vessel of some sort. At least that's how I feel about it.

[Master]

I think the funniest thing that seems to come out of Who in recent years is just how bad it is at making political points. I'm all for exploring ideas and concepts and it's not like we've not criticised or touched upon political items in the past, but I agree that these days it's just so on the nose, explicitly and often very clumsily done to the point where it ends up being more of an insult to the folks it's trying to speak for than any decently made point. I'm grateful the show has been as open and welcoming as it has, but it needs to know its limits, or more importantly, the writers need to know their limits in what they are able to comment and write upon, and what they do end up writing on. Otherwise it's just a mess that no-one ends up liking, and if that's the case, just stick to what makes Who work, monsters, clever escapes and bases under siege. Don't be pushing the envelope if you're not willing to show an appropriate amount of tact and sensitivity to the issues.

Though when it comes to things that make Who work, well, maybe stop clinging onto callbacks and 'member berries and making them complete and utter nothingburgers. I liked Hell Bent, I think as an exploration of the relationship between 12 and Clara and how it went too far, it's a wonderful reflection and conclusion to their story, but I know full well people were very upset by the episode because it had the backdrop of Gallifrey and the Time Lords on it...which ultimately was just background noise. Like I said, I liked the episode, and I think for what it's trying to do it works well, but it's symptomatic of a problem that's been getting worse and worse - the use of DEEP LORE to little satisfying effect. This season featured the return of Susan; the Doctor's Grandaughter, and the Rani; a Time Lady villain who hasn't been seen since Classic Who. It also featured Omega, one of the founding members of Time Lord society. And what did they do with them? Susan just shows up in the odd scene effectively to say "member me?" The Rani was actually pretty brilliant, but got 'nommed by Omega, who was a decrepit CGI beast this time who got blasted back to his little prison within 5 minutes. I mean if we're going to use old villains, use the established playbook, the Daleks, Cybermen, the Master, the Sontarans, all classic villains who were brought back in their own episodes and with proper fanfare and plotting. Not crammed into a finale with very little to go between them.

And the fact that Billie Piper is back. Now I know how special that era of the show is to people, but it's been almost 20 years now. Nostalgia pandering is not a sustainable way to keep the show moving forward, it was nice for the 60th because that was a celebration. This current era of Who I've followed despite how clumsy it's been because at least it felt different and initially it did feel like it was building and working towards something. The problem is though, what it's been doing has been really badly done, the Pantheon of Gods in general have been very very lacklustre outside of the Toymaker, Lux and (possibly) Maestro. And considering that the main point of this era has been the Gods...that's very very concerning.

Now most of the events of this season actually did end up being leaked, so by the time the finale hit, the set of leaks I had read looked to be remarkably accurate. So despite my hopes that we wouldn't be seeing a regeneration, I knew what was about to happen. And I didn't want it to happen. The sad truth is I was actually liking Ncuti's Doctor, stories might have been naff but he was fun to watch in action...shame he's probably had the shortest run since Eccleston which means he leaves having not really had much chance to properly establish his Doctor.

All in all, I'm still gonna keep watching, the only two things I can think of that I've followed as closely as I have for as long as Doctor Who are Rayman and Transformers. Obviously I've picked up other things I still follow closely since then, but this show is still pretty special to me. Which is why I hope we're not on the brink of a long hiatus, because the rumours I've been hearing are that Disney are going to drop out, which leaves the BBC on its own for carrying on the show.

[Rsandee]

I think the funniest thing that seems to come out of Who in recent years is just how bad it is at making political points. I'm all for exploring ideas and concepts and it's not like we've not criticised or touched upon political items in the past, but I agree that these days it's just so on the nose, explicitly and often very clumsily done to the point where it ends up being more of an insult to the folks it's trying to speak for than any decently made point. I'm grateful the show has been as open and welcoming as it has, but it needs to know its limits, or more importantly, the writers need to know their limits in what they are able to comment and write upon, and what they do end up writing on. Otherwise it's just a mess that no-one ends up liking, and if that's the case, just stick to what makes Who work, monsters, clever escapes and bases under siege. Don't be pushing the envelope if you're not willing to show an appropriate amount of tact and sensitivity to the issues.

I agree, I haven't been able to write back about this because the show is very dear to me and sometimes I forget how dear it is to me. I haven't really watched it that much since Capaldi (my absolute favorite doctor) so sometimes I think this show is in my past, but then I find myself watching classic and modern Doctor Who clips on youtube and nostalgia binging their best episodes. It's just such a shame what happened to the show and I agree it's because of this ham-fisted attempt at political commentary. Sure, I wouldn't have minded a political statement here and there through the lens of Doctor Who, but I feel that this show isn't itself anymore and it's just a vessel for their politics instead of the other way around.

Though when it comes to things that make Who work, well, maybe stop clinging onto callbacks and 'member berries and making them complete and utter nothingburgers. I liked Hell Bent, I think as an exploration of the relationship between 12 and Clara and how it went too far, it's a wonderful reflection and conclusion to their story, but I know full well people were very upset by the episode because it had the backdrop of Gallifrey and the Time Lords on it...which ultimately was just background noise. Like I said, I liked the episode, and I think for what it's trying to do it works well, but it's symptomatic of a problem that's been getting worse and worse - the use of DEEP LORE to little satisfying effect. This season featured the return of Susan; the Doctor's Grandaughter, and the Rani; a Time Lady villain who hasn't been seen since Classic Who. It also featured Omega, one of the founding members of Time Lord society. And what did they do with them? Susan just shows up in the odd scene effectively to say "member me?" The Rani was actually pretty brilliant, but got 'nommed by Omega, who was a decrepit CGI beast this time who got blasted back to his little prison within 5 minutes. I mean if we're going to use old villains, use the established playbook, the Daleks, Cybermen, the Master, the Sontarans, all classic villains who were brought back in their own episodes and with proper fanfare and plotting. Not crammed into a finale with very little to go between them.

I've noticed this tendency before, and exactly like you said it was very prevalent in Hell Bent. I liked Hell Bent for what it was but I was deeply unsatisfied by how they tackled Gallifrey, especially after Heaven Sent which is Capaldi's best episode and one of the most perfect DW episodes imo. I can't believe that's the fate of the Rani by the way, it feels like they just threw her away. I always find myself wishing for the Valeyard to return to the show, but judging by how they have treated the Rani I wish they never revisit that character until perhaps they find some capable writers again.

And the fact that Billie Piper is back. Now I know how special that era of the show is to people, but it's been almost 20 years now. Nostalgia pandering is not a sustainable way to keep the show moving forward, it was nice for the 60th because that was a celebration. This current era of Who I've followed despite how clumsy it's been because at least it felt different and initially it did feel like it was building and working towards something. The problem is though, what it's been doing has been really badly done, the Pantheon of Gods in general have been very very lacklustre outside of the Toymaker, Lux and (possibly) Maestro. And considering that the main point of this era has been the Gods...that's very very concerning.

To me, bringing her back is like a declaration of war. I get it, I get why it could be interesting, but again it seems ham-fisted. Just a desperate attempt to win older viewers back. A shot in the dark to stay relevant, and knowing the show they will not treat her with the respect she deserves. I mean come on, that wasn't even her in the first place, they just used CGI. Here is a literal quote: "they just pasted her face onto Ncuti's body". This tells me more than I need to know to judge how this is going to play out.

I just can't watch anymore because it reminds me of what we've lost.

[Master]

To me, bringing her back is like a declaration of war. I get it, I get why it could be interesting, but again it seems ham-fisted. Just a desperate attempt to win older viewers back. A shot in the dark to stay relevant, and knowing the show they will not treat her with the respect she deserves. I mean come on, that wasn't even her in the first place, they just used CGI. Here is a literal quote: "they just pasted her face onto Ncuti's body". This tells me more than I need to know to judge how this is going to play out.

I can excuse it to a minor extent in that it sounded like it was very last minute, so I imagine they had to make the best with what they had. How much respect they'll treat her with I'm not sure, but I will say I was alright with how the 14th Doctor was treated, he felt like the 10th who'd gone through the growth of the following Doctors, so I don't have much doubts on them treating her right. But either ways, I agree in that it feels like a Hail Mary, going for a reaction. And it might have worked...had the last proper regeneration not already pulled that.

I hope it works out, but I just...don't feel optimistic. And it's a shame because I'm the same, I love Doctor Who. It's a sad nerdy obsession that I would've thought I'd have outgrown, but much like the series this forum services, it's something that's just too close to my heart.