Rayman 3

[StelzenBomber]

Thanks

I posted that murphy a few days ago too!

[PluMGMK]

The Hoover is basically the same object as a plum, just in a different state (as you can see in Raymap). Maybe that's what he meant with "It looks like it was a plum [...]". However, for example a red lum and a flying hook are also the same object in a different state, even though in-game these objects seem to have nothing in common. Maybe there are other reasons speaking for GOT4Ns' (?) theory though.

My thoughts exactly.

Incidentally, in Raymap in CF2 you can see two plums, one in the inital position on the plant, one in the final position on the stick. I quickly looked into the scripts of the latter one and found following code:

Code: Select all

if (!(((YAM_GenGratificator)GetPerso("YAM_GenGratificator_I1")).dsgVar_15) && _fn_p_stCustomBitsCond(29))
{
  ((YAM_GenGratificator)GetPerso("YAM_GenGratificator_I1")).dsgVar_15 = 1;
  ((YAM_GenGratificator)GetPerso("YAM_GenGratificator_I1")).dsgVar_16 = 30;
  CustomBitsProc(29, 0);
}

Basically I pretty much don't understand anything of it, but I've noticed that dsgVar_16 usually is used for points (e.g. for a Matuvu, worth 250 points, you can find "((YAM_GenGratificator)GetPerso("YAM_GenGratificator_I1")).dsgVar_16 = 250;"). If I interpret that correctly, there should be a way to get 30 points (by fulfilling the two conditions in the if), possibly meant as a reward for defeating the Hoover. In Raymap, is it possible to search through all the scripts for a certain variable (e.g. dsgVar_15) to possibly understand the conditions better?

Also congrats, StelzenBomber!

Interesting… I haven't looked into how scoring is handled in Rayman 3, but just checking now it looks like "YAM_GenGratificator" is indeed the entity that handles scoring. The dsgVars Boolean_15 and Int_16 are used by other entities to log a score – Boolean_15 is used to get a lock, so two entities don't try to log a score at the same time, and Int_16 indicates the amount. Here, Custom Bit 29 on your plum object indicates whether or not the score should be logged. It must be set somewhere in the script (you should look for something like "CustomBitsProc(29, 1);") and then here it's unset, so the score isn't logged more than once.

Incidentally, I can't see that extra plum, either in the web version or on my own PC. How did you come across it?

[1234]

Thanks for taking a look into this; quite interesting! I couldn't find "CustomBitsProc(29, 1);" in the scripts of the plum, but I'll yet mess about with it all later.

As for the second plum, I actually didn't do anything specific to make it appear. I just loaded the map and it was there. Here's a screenshot:

By the way, I also stumbled across a creature which seems to be a water bug. I guess it's a normal creature appearing in the game (even though I can't remember noticing it really), but I couldn't find any information on it on RayWiki. Is it included in any article? Also, does it have any specific name, or simply "Water bug"?

Gerridae.png (13.64 KiB) Viewed 2688 times

[PluMGMK]

Ah, I see, that's the plum magnet. For me, that object doesn't have any model for some reason. Maybe you're using an older version of RayMap… Anyway, it does seem to make a provision for scoring 30 points when Rayman sticks a plum on it (though I'm too tired right now to really go through and understand the code), but only if the mapper (or some other object's script?) manually sets Custom Bit 29.

No idea about the water bugs. Can't recall seeing them before…

[1234]

Now I think I know why you can't see the second plum. In the Loader I have the option "View invisible" ticked. I did set this option quite a while ago; that's why I forgot about it.

As for the water bugs, I've found them in BOM1 in "Spawnable persos". I thought I might have seen some small creatures in some water/swamp level(s) before, without really paying attention to them, but when I looked into the game just now, I actually couldn't see any. Maybe someone can tell us more?

[StelzenBomber]

That water bug looks very half life

[ZelenPixel]

yea i dont remember seeing it before either but i think it is wonderful. nice to know of more creatures here because i LOVE the creature design in this game!!

[PluMGMK]

Now I think I know why you can't see the second plum. In the Loader I have the option "View invisible" ticked. I did set this option quite a while ago; that's why I forgot about it.

Ah yes, it's been so long since I've used Raymap that I'd forgotten how to do things like that.

As for the water bugs, I've found them in BOM1 in "Spawnable persos". I thought I might have seen some small creatures in some water/swamp level(s) before, without really paying attention to them, but when I looked into the game just now, I actually couldn't see any. Maybe someone can tell us more?

Interesting! At first I thought that the prefix "Mic_" on the object name meant that it was designed by Michel himself, but then I remembered that he didn't work on Rayman 3 – must be a different Michel. Anyway, it wouldn't be the only unused thing in BOM1 – for example, if you use cheats to fly near the Mawpaws/Paluchards, you can hear them make animal noises, which normally aren't heard in-game. I think I did figure out the reason for the phenomena mentioned here – it turns out that when Rayman teleports between the two sections of the level (by colliding with certain isolated waypoints), it changes the behaviour script of the world itself (between LevelSwamp_60.Intelligence[1] and LevelSwamp_60.Intelligence[2]). No wonder everything gets so screwed up when you try to short it out!

[Elite Piranha]

I was not aware of the existence of that water bug, nice find! In the Rayman 3 files there is a list of creatures and enemies that includes the term "WBug", which could stand for Water Bug, so that may be the official name.

[PluMGMK]

Yep, "WBug" is the model name, while the name in code of the object which uses that model is "Mic_WaterBug".

On an unrelated note, I'm thinking of replaying Rayman 3 in the next few weeks, and I'm wondering if anyone can recommend which texture pack I should try first. I already installed this one some time ago, but only launched the game for a few minutes to admire it. Since then, both this and this appeared – in the latter case, I'd be looking to use the 1080p down-scaled version since I don't have a 4K monitor. Is there any clear winner among them for someone without 4K?

[1234]

Anyway, it wouldn't be the only unused thing in BOM1 – for example, if you use cheats to fly near the Mawpaws/Paluchards, you can hear them make animal noises, which normally aren't heard in-game. I think I did figure out the reason for the phenomena mentioned here – it turns out that when Rayman teleports between the two sections of the level (by colliding with certain isolated waypoints), it changes the behaviour script of the world itself (between LevelSwamp_60.Intelligence[1] and LevelSwamp_60.Intelligence[2]). No wonder everything gets so screwed up when you try to short it out!

That's quite odd. I wonder what other implications this might have. It's just unfortunate that the code is rather hard to read (imo), especially with the very nondescript naming of the variables. Before trying to understand the swamp scripts though, I want to take a closer look at the plums yet. The 30 points sound quite intriguing, even though they probably will only be available via hacking at best.

By the way, I've looked through all the other water/swamp levels and it seems like BOM1 is the only one containing the water bug. Since noone seems to know of these creatures, I've created a Wiki article about them. I've marked it as a stub, as I pretty much know nothing about them. Feel free to add any info you might have concerning these bugs.

While looking through some levels, I've also noticed that the Hoodblasters in TOTL5 look quite different compared to the regular ones. I've never made that observation before, since basically only their backs are visible during the battle. Since I'm probably not the only one who didn't notice that (or so I hope ), here's a screenshot of the strange Hoodblaster and one of a regular one for reference:

Hoodblaster1.png (47.48 KiB) Viewed 2598 times

Hoodblaster2.png (46.77 KiB) Viewed 2598 times

On an unrelated note, I'm thinking of replaying Rayman 3 in the next few weeks, and I'm wondering if anyone can recommend which texture pack I should try first. I already installed this one some time ago, but only launched the game for a few minutes to admire it. Since then, both this and this appeared – in the latter case, I'd be looking to use the 1080p down-scaled version since I don't have a 4K monitor. Is there any clear winner among them for someone without 4K?

Actually, I'm also considering trying one of the texture packs out. I can't tell which one's best from my end, but I'd probably give this one a try, provided it offers an 1080p-version. There has been an update which seems to have merged the best of both of the new texture packs.

[Hunchman801]

Amazing finds! I especially like the water bug.

How do we know that the wooden trap is a Hoover, though? Is it the name of the model? It's certainly not a carnivorous plant, so maybe it evolved from that into a wooden contraption? Also, it's similar to that thing GOT4N discovered (the plum trap), yet different? Could they be related?

While looking through some levels, I've also noticed that the Hoodblasters in TOTL5 look quite different compared to the regular ones. I've never made that observation before, since basically only their backs are visible during the battle. Since I'm probably not the only one who didn't notice that (or so I hope ), here's a screenshot of the strange Hoodblaster and one of a regular one for reference:
Hoodblaster1.png
Hoodblaster2.png

Could it be that the second model is lighter to load and was chosen because there's plenty of Hoodblasters on screen?

[1234]

Thanks!

How do we know that the wooden trap is a Hoover, though? Is it the name of the model? It's certainly not a carnivorous plant, so maybe it evolved from that into a wooden contraption? Also, it's similar to that thing GOT4N discovered (the plum trap), yet different? Could they be related?

The main reason why I assumed it to be a Hoover is because GOT4N called the creature in his video like that, and it appears to be the same creature as the one I provided a screenshot of. After all, both look basically the same (except that Got4Ns' is a bit glitched), use the same texture, and both are related to plums - as I mentioned, I changed the state of a plum in Raymap (that's also why the name of the object in Raymap is simply "plum"; the texture is called "plum_machine").

As for the "carnivorous plant", while it doesn't look like a plant, it certainly seems to have some similarities to a venus fly trap (provided my assumptions about the behaviour of the Hoover are right): Both can't do any translational movement and have to wait for their prey. When coming too close, they quickly attack/trap their prey. Once being fed (with a plum/fly), they become harmless for a certain time and you can approach them safely. Also the structure is kind of similar: A "head" with teeth and a neck/stalk.
Maybe it's a bit far-fetched, but at least it'd be an explanation.

Could it be that the second model is lighter to load and was chosen because there's plenty of Hoodblasters on screen?

That's also what I thought/think, even though they don't really look less complex to me, but what do I know. Incidentally, in Raymap they are called "Sniper" (regular ones are called "CagouSnipe"), and they have significantly less animations.

[PluMGMK]

Yeah, it definitely looks like a cheap model to me. The reduction of the number of animations further confirms that.

[Hunchman801]

The main reason why I assumed it to be a Hoover is because GOT4N called the creature in his video like that, and it appears to be the same creature as the one I provided a screenshot of. After all, both look basically the same (except that Got4Ns' is a bit glitched), use the same texture, and both are related to plums - as I mentioned, I changed the state of a plum in Raymap (that's also why the name of the object in Raymap is simply "plum"; the texture is called "plum_machine").

As for the "carnivorous plant", while it doesn't look like a plant, it certainly seems to have some similarities to a venus fly trap (provided my assumptions about the behaviour of the Hoover are right): Both can't do any translational movement and have to wait for their prey. When coming too close, they quickly attack/trap their prey. Once being fed (with a plum/fly), they become harmless for a certain time and you can approach them safely. Also the structure is kind of similar: A "head" with teeth and a neck/stalk.
Maybe it's a bit far-fetched, but at least it'd be an explanation.

After giving it a close look, it seems that the thing in GOT4N's video is indeed a glitched version of the model you found. However, it was a wild guess of him to call it a Hoover, and while there are similarities, they do not warrant such a bold assumption.

Therefore, I think it's best to consider this machine a separate thing, and to note that it is indeed connected to the Hoover, sharing a similar function, and that it could be either an early version of it, or derived from it.

Yeah, it definitely looks like a cheap model to me. The reduction of the number of animations further confirms that.

I see, that makes sense.

[RayCarrot]

I'm not really sure which topic to post it in, but since I can't find one specifically for the GBA version I'll post it here.

When it comes to the GBA version of R3 there has been some confusion for a while about an 11th GameCube bonus level. For example it's mentioned here that there would be "a final challenge level that will be unlocked once the GameCube version of the game has been completed". This level can't be accessed in the game and looking at the download data in the GC version it's apparent there are only 10 levels.
What even more supported the theory that it exists was leftover strings from the game's debug menu in the N-Gage version. In there is a list of all stages, and one is named "Challenge Ly GCN".
Yesterday I had a look at the levels in the rom and noticed there was a third Ly's Punch Challenge stage. The order matches exactly with where "Challenge Ly GCN" would appear based on the level names.
I modified the level index for one of the levels and here is the unused 11th bonus level It's pretty underwhelming tbh, and the layout is very similar to Ly's Punch Challenge 2, but still neat it's on the rom in some form.

[StelzenBomber]

Great find!

It honestly looks kinda generic but its usused for a reason probably

[PluMGMK]

Probably something that was cut for a reason, as opposed to 2D Nightmare where it was a schoolchild programming error that left it inaccessible. Nice find though! Great when these kinds of rumours turn out to be true!

[dr_st]

Probably something that was cut for a reason, as opposed to 2D Nightmare where it was a schoolchild programming error that left it inaccessible.

Actually, the off-by-one programming error is something very common, even with the most experienced programmers. What's shocking is that they never tested this scenario, cause it would have been trivial to catch!

[PluMGMK]

Yeah, I understand off-by-ones can happen to anyone, but like you said, they should have bloody tested it!