Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

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Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by need my speed »

Hola people! Recently I started making my own Rayman game; a 2D platformer using GameMaker. Now that I will soon be working full-time again, I decided to make a thread here, so that, if I ever abandon the game, at the very least the game will have a presence in the history books.

The Rayman universe feels very disconnected. Rayman 1 is a colourful playful fantasy world, Rayman 2 is a mysterious grand epic, and Rayman 3 is a more specific and more humouristic take on Rayman 2. Most of these games have little in common with each other, besides Rayman. Betilla and Ly, Tings and Lums, a Great Protoon and a Heart of the World (and a Primordial Core, but that is explicitly a synonym), a Hall of Doors and a Teensie Highway, and ever so on. Rayman M/Arena is clearly connected to Rayman 2 (in characters, environments, and music composition - the same kind of music, but changed in style from 'adventure' to 'race/fight'). Rayman Origins harkens back to Rayman 1 and involves elements from Rayman 2, but it does so in an unsatisfying inconclusive way. Rayman Legends... Is weird and does its own thing.

With this game, I want to tie the universes of Rayman 1, 2, and 3 together, as well as M/Arena in so far as that Henchman 1000 and Razorwife should have existed in Rayman 2. I want to have a universe where Mr. Dark's twisted creatures and Black Lums can co-exist, and where having both the Great Protoon and the Heart of the World makes sense. A universe where Mr. Dark, Polokus, Jano, Robo-Pirates, Black Lums, and the Leptys, can all play a role without infringing upon each other's capabilities.

Of course, I will fail in this, in so far that the Rayman universe is internally so wildly inconsistent that I will need to pick and choose elements. Why did Polokus not destroy the Black Lums, why didn't we need four masks to contact the Bubble Dreamer, why do scared Red Lums turn into Black Lums while also fuelling Robo-Pirates - does being eaten by Robo-Pirates not sound extremely scary? And ever so on. But, I feel like I have a nicely cohesive story and a nicely consistent world worked out!

Thus far, I have created an introduction, as well as the first two levels. I am intentionally making this game in a tiny resolution, because in a platformer game, what you can and cannot see is very important. You could scale up both the resolution and the graphics, to see less, but sadly my graphics skills are non-existent and I am relying entirely on my own terrible pixel art and online spritesheets. I also think a tiny resolution helps with level design. Plus, this small resolution would allow me to hypothetically publish the game for e.g. a phone.

Speaking about level design, I feel that this is a surprisingly undervalued or underestimated subject for platformer games. Most people... Design a level? And that's it? For me, a level needs to do a few things:

A level needs to fit in a larger world. Rayman 2 and 3 do this adequately enough, Rayman 1 does not; there is no reason why we couldn't start our journey in Band Land, then go to Picture City, explore the Dream Forest, find the Caves of Skops, climb the Blue Mountains, and end our journey in the Candy Chateau (and that only because 'Chateau' kind of implies a final level, with the villain living in a castle). In Rayman 2 and 3, on the other hand, locations mostly flow logically from each other; you can imagine journeying from the Woods of Light (a light wood) to the Fairy Glade (a darker wood) to the Marshes of Awakening (a neutral swamp) to the Bayou (a darker swamp) - although then, theoretically the Hall of Doors should be able to bring you everywhere, so...? I suppose you can handwave this by saying 'ah, but the portal stones at the end of the levels are connected to the next one in the sequence, and Rayman doesn't actually go back to the Hall of Doors, that is only shown for the player to be able to select a level' - but then the Teensies saying 'you need to pay an X amount of Lums to enter Y location' part falls apart. Of course, at some point, gameplay elements trump worldbuilding elements, and the Hall of Doors is a beautiful concept, I think (I also like Revolution's take on it a lot, though!).

A level needs to teach the player something. Introduce a new element, teach the player about it intuitively and naturally, and have it come up in different and more difficult situations. Of course, you can probably not do this for every level, and that is perfectly fine in my opinion! But it is something I think about, also with regards to difficulty. Teaching, or introducing a new element, doesn't need to be contained to one level in my opinion; you can introduce something new at the end of one level, and then use the next level to explore it further. It might be tidier or neater to dedicate one level to one element, especially from a gameplay perspective, but from a worldbuilding perspective I like to have the player end in a location that feels like the beginning of a new level. This works great in 3D (the player ends the level by running towards the castle's door in front, the next level starts clearly inside a castle), can work well enough in 2D if your graphics skills are good, and... Still kinda works even if your graphics skills are bad? Hopefully? :P Also, the other side of teaching a player something, is that the player must be able to trust the game. This is something many platformer games fail at, including Rayman Origins/Legends - sometimes I jump into a pit and die, sometimes I jump into a pit and find a secret - but Rayman 1 did this very well. If I spy a Ting at the edge of my screen, the game will take care of me. In a similar vein, exploration should be rewarded.

I hope to achieve all of that with my game. :)

As I said, so far I have created two levels, as well as eight bugs / works in progress:
-Ducking works awkwardly, because I ideally want to have a transition animation between standing and ducking;
-Walking up and down slopes doesn't display the correct animation(s);
-There is no animation to indicate that you can talk with characters (two Teensies, so far) by pressing E;
-There is no animation to indicate that your fist is charged and ready to fire;
-You cannot jump and punch (intended for now, might change in the future);
-You cannot hang;
-I intend to add more decorations to the levels (e.g. small sand clouds, cracks in tiles, amphoras, who knows).
-I intend to add a main menu and a level transition menu (like Rayman 1's world map or Rayman 2's Hall of Doors) - the controls are either WASD or the arrow keys, space to punch, E to interact with the Teensies).

I also figured out how to create a video, and decided to put the intro directly in this post:
https://easyupload.io/q6sb2v

Do enjoy, if you'd like, and I am very much interested in any criticism you may offer!
I do believe the .exe in the .zip should work, but let me know if it doesn't:
https://easyupload.io/1druxb (link valid for 30 days)

Have a good night, people! :)
Last edited by need my speed on Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:37 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by arnoldfranklin »

I see you did make a topic for your game. Hey, this must have taken a draft or a lot of time writing. This thing sounds cool. You should include Antitoons and different types of Antitoons. That would be so cool although you don't have to of course. This doesn't work on Linux I don't think. I don't know if it will work using an emulator or not, though.
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Re: Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by PluMGMK »

When I first saw this topic title I thought it was about a Discord server discussing the next game, which had become dormant. So then I was thinking, if it's dormant, why are they posting a new topic about it? But then I realized it was the title of the game! :fou:
need my speed wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:36 am Rayman Legends... Is weird and does its own thing.
I think this quote is worthy of my collection :hap:
need my speed wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:36 am Of course, I will fail in this, in so far that the Rayman universe is internally so wildly inconsistent that I will need to pick and choose elements. Why did Polokus not destroy the Black Lums, why didn't we need four masks to contact the Bubble Dreamer
Well, there are good explanations for both of these… ;) Polokus was created by Lums, so the Black Lums are on a higher level of power than he is. And Rayman Origins happens after Rayman 2, so he's already been brought back, and the masks will never be needed again.
need my speed wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:36 am But, I feel like I have a nicely cohesive story and a nicely consistent world worked out!
Excellent! :)
need my speed wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:36 am Do enjoy, if you'd like, and I am very much interested in any criticism you may offer!
I'm not sure if it makes sense to have to recollect all the Yellow Lums when you die. It didn't work like that in Rayman 2 after all. I gave it a quick try and gave up because I kept dying and having to redo all the platforming tricks to get them…
arnoldfranklin wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 1:34 am This doesn't work on Linux I don't think. I don't know if it will work using an emulator or not, though.
The default version of Wine shipped with Lutris (currently 7.2 with some patches) does the trick ;)
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Re: Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by arnoldfranklin »

Hey, I also thought of Discord when I heard the title. lol
It's still a good title, though. I think I also have a good quote for your collection.
Xenon wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:11 am Puppies don't exist in Rayman's world.
You may have noticed it in my signature at one point.
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Re: Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by need my speed »

PluMGMK wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:54 pm When I first saw this topic title I thought it was about a Discord server discussing the next game, which had become dormant. So then I was thinking, if it's dormant, why are they posting a new topic about it? But then I realized it was the title of the game! :fou:
Ha, I like this - but it is a good point... I have always liked to use the word 'Discord'. Also for its relation to music, which, to me, somehow feels fitting in the Rayman universe. 'Dormant' alliterates, goes well with the whole 'Polokus is sleeping' idea, with dreams and nightmares, and in general refers to a larger theme in the story I came up with.
I think this quote is worthy of my collection :hap:
Ha, I feel famous now. It's not a bad game at all, I enjoy it a lot! But the story is... I don't know. :P
Well, there are good explanations for both of these… ;) Polokus was created by Lums, so the Black Lums are on a higher level of power than he is. And Rayman Origins happens after Rayman 2, so he's already been brought back, and the masks will never be needed again.
The first point is actually interesting! But to the second, doesn't Origins show the creation of Rayman by the Nymphs? Or would that be a flashback to long ago (although that is never specified), with the game taking place much later? But if it takes place after Rayman 2, why would a mere Salesman, a Teensie created by Polokus himself, be more powerful than Polokus? Of course these are just idle questions, I am not looking for a mathematically perfect answer, nor is it likely that I will radically change the story idea I have, but it's fun to think about. :)
I'm not sure if it makes sense to have to recollect all the Yellow Lums when you die. It didn't work like that in Rayman 2 after all. I gave it a quick try and gave up because I kept dying and having to redo all the platforming tricks to get them…
That is a very good point, I should implement a proper savegame mechanism. You are not forced to collect the Lums though!
As for the difficulty, yes... I already toned it down to be easier, but, yes, I had a feeling that might be the case. On the one hand, I do not really believe an intro level without any difficulty is necessary (because everyone has played platformers before), and I do try to introduce the player to threats in a safe-ish way (note for instance that you are forced to stop and jump over a block right before the first water-dripping-tile, so that you hopefully become aware of 'hey, I should pay attention to this'), but I admit the underground section can be a bit hard. Of course, you can patiently wait for the water to fall and then go... But I am often too impatient for that as well. :P
Would you have any suggestions?
arnoldfranklin wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 1:34 am This doesn't work on Linux I don't think. I don't know if it will work using an emulator or not, though.
How would you play fangames, if you know? If .exe-files don't work? Or do .zip-files not work?
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Re: Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by PluMGMK »

need my speed wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:09 pm Ha, I feel famous now.
Right, I'll add it in the morning!
need my speed wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:09 pm But to the second, doesn't Origins show the creation of Rayman by the Nymphs? Or would that be a flashback to long ago (although that is never specified), with the game taking place much later? But if it takes place after Rayman 2, why would a mere Salesman, a Teensie created by Polokus himself, be more powerful than Polokus?
Origins doesn't show Rayman being created by the Nymphs, that was just in the E3 2010 trailer, which was when they planned it to be a prequel. But by the time they released it, it was a sequel. And then Ales wasn't more powerful than Polokus, he just engaged in misdirection on a grand scale to outsmart him, at least for a while. So Polokus clearly isn't omniscient (or he would have figured out the trick from day zero), but he doesn't necessarily have to be for the story to hang together…
need my speed wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:09 pm As for the difficulty, yes... I already toned it down to be easier, but, yes, I had a feeling that might be the case. On the one hand, I do not really believe an intro level without any difficulty is necessary (because everyone has played platformers before), and I do try to introduce the player to threats in a safe-ish way (note for instance that you are forced to stop and jump over a block right before the first water-dripping-tile, so that you hopefully become aware of 'hey, I should pay attention to this'), but I admit the underground section can be a bit hard. Of course, you can patiently wait for the water to fall and then go... But I am often too impatient for that as well. :P
Would you have any suggestions?
Hmm… I'll admit I didn't immediately notice the water was dripping, and it took me even longer to realize that it hurt me! :oops2: Would it make sense to replace it with a different liquid? Maybe lava, or at least water that is obviously polluted? That would make it a much clearer danger I think, since falling water is basically just rain, which usually doesn't hurt Rayman… And I also didn't realize you could wait for it to drain, that's a pretty cool last resort!
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Re: Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by need my speed »

Good points! :)

The water dripping animation is a bit too obscure, yes. That is why I 'forced' the player to pause before encountering the first one, in the hopes of alleviating that (plus I made the spawner itself have an animation before dropping the water, and there is the sound effect), but, yes. Also very good point about displaying that the water is polluted - and adding some bright green (or who knows what) would also make it more visible!

It doesn't actually drain, I merely meant to wait the 0.5/1/1.5/however many seconds (it's usually slightly randomised, unless e.g. you have to climb up or down by darting between two water spawners, where randomisation could make it impossible to proceed unscathed) it takes to spawn water. I would have taken a small video, but, look below. :P

Can I insert a video in a post? I just figured out I could screen capture areas of my PC, and thought I might as well add the intro to my post - but I cannot attach .mp4 files, if I upload files through external websites I get a link, and if I put it on YouTube the resolution is stretched in a horrible manner (look how ugly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pouMEzIaVSM ). I would like to insert a video where you can just click 'play' in the post itself - is this possible? :)
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Re: Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by PluMGMK »

The only way to insert videos is by putting them on YouTube and using the tags, like so:
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Re: Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by need my speed »

But then, as you can see, YouTube clearly messes up the resolution, making it look horribly blurry. What a shame - but thank you!
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Re: Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by mistercallumb »

Hello! So I gave the demo a try. My first suggestion is to allow the resizing of the game window because on a monitor of 1080p or above the game window is impossibly small to work with (unless you did add that and I just couldn't get it to work) it made it even harder to see the obstacles etc. Game Maker can natively scale up the game if you adjust the window size, so it wont be blurry at all, it'll just look like pixel art should :) Also the view in the room moves way too late so you can't see what is coming up - I'd recommend adjusting the camera settings so that it keeps Rayman more in the middle of the frame at least. Otherwise if I jump into something off screen it feels a little cheap.

I also sadly completely missed that it was the water dripping on me, I think even if I had seen it, the water falls way too quickly and Rayman's movement speed is too slow to be able to avoid it. Especially when climbing. I get you want the level to not be completely easy but it feels a little unfair at times especially with the amount of tiles that spawn the water.

Also I'm assuming you need to get all the lums to progress (?) I'm not sure though because I kept dying before I could grab them all :D

Hopefully this feedback is helpful at least, its cool to see more fan games being worked on! Good luck with the development!
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Re: Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by need my speed »

mistercallumb wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 4:21 pm Hello! So I gave the demo a try. My first suggestion is to allow the resizing of the game window because on a monitor of 1080p or above the game window is impossibly small to work with (unless you did add that and I just couldn't get it to work) it made it even harder to see the obstacles etc. Game Maker can natively scale up the game if you adjust the window size, so it wont be blurry at all, it'll just look like pixel art should :)
I didn't know this! Done, then! :)
Also the view in the room moves way too late so you can't see what is coming up - I'd recommend adjusting the camera settings so that it keeps Rayman more in the middle of the frame at least. Otherwise if I jump into something off screen it feels a little cheap.
This is odd, because I changed the view moving a short while before making this thread... Buuut I only changed this in the second level, I see. Thank you, and fixed! Rayman should stay in the center of the screen now. :)
I also sadly completely missed that it was the water dripping on me, I think even if I had seen it, the water falls way too quickly and Rayman's movement speed is too slow to be able to avoid it. Especially when climbing. I get you want the level to not be completely easy but it feels a little unfair at times especially with the amount of tiles that spawn the water.
Yes. :)

The ordinary water now has a green hue - do you think it should be bright neon green (which we do see in the Desert of the Knaaren in Rayman 3), or do you think this looks dangerous/toxic enough? The area is intended to be a place where the Knaaren catch and store water for their own consumption, so it shouldn't be too toxic... But it can be, because for all we know the Knaaren drink mercury and polonium mixed with snake poison for dessert!
The falling water now also has a green hue, but a more brighter one, to hopefully be more noticeable.
The two rightmost water spawners now drop their water in very rapid succession, so that any player who arrives at this point will see it and will at least be aware of 'hey, this threat exists'. Do you think most players will naturally arrive at this point and thereby be warned?
Image
Do you think all of this suffices to make it more clear? Or is this not enough? :)

Then, for the difficulty:
Image
There used to be water spawners on the four white spots near my mouse. I have now removed them, so the idea now is:
- Get the Yellow Lum to the right within two seconds (the interval of the water spawners above it); should be easy because you're simply walking
- Climb on the first net (how would you call this in English?) in peace, without any water spawners
- Observe the second net having a water spawner above its right edge; you need to jump from the first net and climb to the left end of the second net within two seconds to be safe
- Observe the third net having a water spawner above its left edge; you can take your time and make the jump to the platform whenever you want

Then, you arrive at a place with three water spawners above a Yellow Lum. You are familiar with this concept from the water spawners above the Yellow Lum before the nets, so this shouldn't be much more difficult. However, you may be tempted to keep running, and then you will probably get hit - this is the game saying 'pay attention, you don't need to rush'.

The next net, with two water spawners above it, is again a slightly more difficult version of what you have just encountered; you can technically still hang on to the very edge of the net and be safe, but it is harder now (and not needed, if you time it right).

I have removed the next four water spawners.
The first one to give the player a safe space (and yes, you could hang on to the very edge of the net, stand on the very edge of the platform, or stand on the last non-disappearing black, you would be safe in all of those spaces - but clearly that isn't intuitive, so no).
The next three, because while you can time the first one from a safe space, you can't time the other two, and combining water spawners and disappearing blocks is a new element anyway - it shouldn't be too hard. Plus, we just had the game say 'pay attention, you don't need to rush'.
I have kept the fifth water spawner, all the way to the left, because you can wait and drop to the platforms below (which feels more feasible with the removal of the other water spawners), and if you don't, I assume that you would naturally keep running all the way to the end - and you are safe there. The water spawner can't hit you at the very left end of the room.

If you return (from left to right) on the lower path, reaching the three nets, you won't be able to see the water spawner above the leftmost net. You should remember its presence, and wait to see the falling water from the edge of the platform.

So too should you remember the water spawner above the rightmost net; you can jump up to hang on to the middle net and wait, or you can take the risk and just go on - in my experience, the two second (and a little bit more) delay between water spawning is forgiving enough, but...?

Having just tried the revised level, for me it now works great - but I am the developer, and obviously my opinion is biased because I have played it much more than anyone else here. I hope this feels more appropriate for a first level (I did put two Red Lums here for a reason), and I also hope that this doesn't feel unfair. If it does, please let me know, and if you have any better ideas, why, please let me know!
Also I'm assuming you need to get all the lums to progress (?) I'm not sure though because I kept dying before I could grab them all :D
You don't - but because more people have assumed this by now, and because people keep dying because of the water, I am curious how intuitive it is to finish the level, so I won't say anything more about how to finish the level in this post. I slightly changed the Teensie's text, so that one of his messages is now: "I see a Yellow Lum above your head! Polokus would like them back - though you don't have to collect them!"
Hopefully this feedback is helpful at least, its cool to see more fan games being worked on! Good luck with the development!
Yes, most definitely, thank you very much! :)

I have uploaded a new version of the game in the first post - but you can also click here: https://easyupload.io/1druxb :)
Last edited by need my speed on Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:37 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by PluMGMK »

That link is giving me "file not found"… But those screenshots look good, it's clear now that this water is nasty stuff! I also hadn't realized that only some of the tiles drop water on you. :oops2: I thought since they all looked like disappearing platforms, they were all permeable!
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Re: Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by need my speed »

PluMGMK wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 7:33 pm That link is giving me "file not found"… But those screenshots look good, it's clear now that this water is nasty stuff! I also hadn't realized that only some of the tiles drop water on you. :oops2: I thought since they all looked like disappearing platforms, they were all permeable!
Ah, so as it turns out; you cannot directly upload .exe-files on easyupload.io, you need to upload them within e.g. a .zip-file - it's fixed now. The things I learn! :P

If you look closely (look at the first picture of my previous post, for example), you can see that the '''smile''' and the very top of some of these disappearing platforms are 'filled' with water; those are the ones where the water falls from. Compare:
Image
Image
In-game this is harder to see, but still visible, I would say? How could I change the sprite to be better? :)
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Re: Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by mistercallumb »

Are you sure you uploaded the new version? :D
I am struggling to resize the window still and the water looks the same... I could be doing something wrong lol

You can also package the game as a ZIP in Game Maker rather than an installer, I find it makes it easier for testing than having to uninstall/reinstall each time
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Re: Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by need my speed »

mistercallumb wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 9:04 pm Are you sure you uploaded the new version? :D
I am struggling to resize the window still and the water looks the same... I could be doing something wrong lol

You can also package the game as a ZIP in Game Maker rather than an installer, I find it makes it easier for testing than having to uninstall/reinstall each time
No, that is probably my (or easyupload's) fault... I have now uploaded it again, downloaded it, and launched the game, so this one should be the correct one: https://easyupload.io/1druxb

Do you mean this with packaging the game as a .zip, by the way?

Thank you for testing/playing it! :)
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Re: Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by mistercallumb »

need my speed wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:07 pm
mistercallumb wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 9:04 pm Are you sure you uploaded the new version? :D
I am struggling to resize the window still and the water looks the same... I could be doing something wrong lol

You can also package the game as a ZIP in Game Maker rather than an installer, I find it makes it easier for testing than having to uninstall/reinstall each time
No, that is probably my (or easyupload's) fault... I have now uploaded it again, downloaded it, and launched the game, so this one should be the correct one: https://easyupload.io/1druxb

Do you mean this with packaging the game as a .zip, by the way?

Thank you for testing/playing it! :)
Yep nailed it! I'll let you know how I get on with the new version.
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Re: Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by arnoldfranklin »

I think I'll just pass on trying to get it to work. I hope you will be able to release this game some day. :hap:
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Re: Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by need my speed »

arnoldfranklin wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:39 pm I think I'll just pass on trying to get it to work. I hope you will be able to release this game some day. :hap:
What doesn't work? What happens? :)
arnoldfranklin
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Re: Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by arnoldfranklin »

It just opens other files. Here are some screenshots:
Attachments
zip.png
exee.png
need my speed
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Re: Rayman 4: Dormant Discord (or: Yet another 2D platformer~)

Post by need my speed »

Hm, I don't think I can do anything about that... Judging by this and some other links, it seems like I would need to buy something to be allowed to do *complex things* (that might also require a virtual machine and a bunch of other things) to even be able to export something for Linux... How weird and limiting. What a shame. :(
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