Rayman Origins vs Rayman Legends

[Master]

Ok so something that I considered an unpopular opinion seems to be a little more popular than I'd expected, so much so that now I'm compelled to see if there's more deeper differences in feeling between the two main UbiArt titles.

I've always considered them both to be part of the same monolith, and it's not a secret that there's a major difference in opinion between those of us who have preferences veering more to the 90s/00s era of Rayman Vs those who got in during the 2010s. Which makes this all the more interesting because it seems amongst those of us on the forum who I've talked to about this topic, UbiArt fans or classic, a common opinion seems to be that Origins was the more interesting game when it comes to gameplay design.

Now I'm not saying that's the consensus by any stretch, but that fact that despite our differences, we seem to agree on this, makes me want to discuss...how do Origins and Legends differ to us? And is the view that Legends is the better game...not quite as pervasive as I'd expected?

Yeah so, talk about your thoughts about both games, what you prefer in one Vs the other etc etc.

[Greengoop]

Rayman origins:

Gameplay: 10/10, love whizzing through levels, exploring and collecting lums, and backtracking is surprisingly not tedious
Themes: 5/10, much prefer fantasy themes, although it’s nice to see the worlds as a throwback to OG Rayman
Music: 2/10, just no.
Combat: 6/10, it’s a unique system, but I’d prefer the compact to be more in-depth
Overall: 23/40, really thought it’d be higher

Rayman legends:

Gameplay: 8/10, as Master and Dumbo have already pointed out, the level design feels a lot more empty than the vibrant worlds of origins, but I love a lot of gimmicks they’ve introduced
Themes: 7/10, I really preferred the theme of stories they originally intended to go for, but I like the fantasy themes as replacements
Music: 6/10, just sounds overall a lot better, and they don’t sound all really similar, unlike origins
Combat: 6/10, they removed some unique origins gimmicks, like turning enemies into bubbles, but they added stuff like the blue fist, which I think is a fair payoff
Overall: 27/40, seems to be a bit better, but some categories haven’t been nailed

[Giant Chicken]

I personally think Legends is a better game, but I personally prefer Origins. Legends has more levels, more unique worlds, exremely fluid gameplay, especially at the top level, more features, already includes more than half of the levels from Origins (although they're way easier in Legends for some reason), a more enhanced artstyle, and is generally just a better game in most ways. But I prefer Origins because... I just do. I like its artstyle more, its gameplay is more fun, its music is literally peak (Rating its music a 2/10 is a crime against humanity >:0), and I just like the game more overall.

[Droolie]

Oh shit, here we go again.

MUSIC
For me, music is probably the single most important thing in all media I enjoy. I like the music in most Rayman games, however Origins is the single exception. I even like Rayman Mini's soundtrack more. The reason is the lack of melody in a lot of tracks, and emotions that convey anything other than "crazy happy place". It's great to have a track or two like this, but there is just not enough variation.

Of course, I do enjoy a couple tracks, such as Lums of the Water/Glou Glou and its variations, "The Lums' Dream" and "The Abyss". Sea of Serendipity is the single world in the game where the tone changes from goofy to creepy and dangerous. At least, underwater, because the Red Wizard village's soundtrack still sounds like some crazy party is going on, like in every world before that. Again, it's not that I cannot appreciate tracks like that on their own, but you need variation, and this game doesn't have any.

Meanwhile, the Rayman Legends soundtrack is full of variation. It has calming tracks like The Enchanted Forest, ones with hints of sadness like When the Wind Blows (a much improved version of an Origins track) and to a greater extent, Lost in the Clouds (not used in the game, for shame), heroic tracks such as The Adventure Begins, The Tower of Babel (Medieval Theme in the OST), mysterious ones such as the 20,000 Lums Under The Sea themes (Dive Another Day and Mansion of the Deep are my favorites!). Yes, you still have the funny tracks such as Luchador, Infernal Pursuit, but the range of emotions is so much broader than before!

In short, it's not even a contest here. Rayman Legends simply has a much better soundtrack. Origins does not compare. A 2/10 rating is too high for that soundtrack.
Winner: Rayman Legends

For me, this already decides which is the better game as well, however I can discuss a few other aspects, I guess.

WORLD DESIGN
The first world in Rayman Origins is a jungle. It has two big "themes" which are just the deep jungle and the open spaces with palm trees and geysers. Sorry, if there were more, I forgot. I only vaguely remember a few places.

In Rayman Legends, it's... also a jungle. However, similar to the improvements in the soundtrack, you also have more variation here. There's a swamp environment, an enchanted forest with moving roots, a medieval castle and the castle's ramparts during a siege. All of these themes look and feel noticeably different. Players can explore calm places, mysterious dark dungeons and get mixed up in a super dangerous situation, a siege where everything is on fire! This simply doesn't exist in Origins.

Here's another thing: Remember the first level? Yes, you do. You start out in the swamp where you notice a castle in the background and enter it. The first part of this first level alone is more memorable than any place in Origins, simply because the castle "landmark" and the fact that you can travel to it, enter it and explore it makes it feel more like an actual place, not "just a level".
Rayman Origins makes next to no effort to make "places" (aside from the Moskito segments where you travel between worlds), but Legends does this very well in a lot of worlds.

The added variation continues into later worlds. A bland desert (with instruments in the background, but still overwhelmingly a bland desert) becomes a magical beanstalk that you can climb to discover makeshift toad settlements and ruins of a castle in the sky. Compared to Origins' brown-yellow, this world has a beautiful color palette of green roots on purple, blue and yellow skies as the time of day changes. And people say Origins is somehow more colorful.

Fiesta de los Muertos on the other hand feels less interesting than its Origins counterpart. There are some beautiful decors here, but in the end it all sort of feels like the same theme, whereas in Origins you had a clear distinction between the cold & hot themes. Gameplay-wise the world feels stronger (with the focus on the digging & duck mechanics), and because of the hints of sadness in the music (because it's the Day of the Dead) I like it better, so overall I still prefer the Legends world, but purely for the theme I'd have to give it to Origins here.

Now for the water world, both games knocked it out of the park. Origins had some strong variation, going from the village to underwater, to the dark depths of the sea and the mysterious temple at the bottom (though it would be better if we could explore it).
Legends puts a cool spin on it, the sea is now polluted with trash from an underground base built by the Toads! Like some sort of spy movie, you travel through the hangar and a maze of dark tunnels and pipes to stealthily infiltrate the Toads' base, all while avoiding deadly lasers and searchlights.
It is here that you reach my favorite level in the game, Mansion of the Deep. I like it a lot because not only is its music one of the best tracks in the game, but the level is designed as a place: you get to see various rooms used by the Toads such as their barracks (tiny little beds), fish tanks where they've imprisoned a Teensy, and a luxury room which I've always thought was supposed to be a mini-casino? Similar to the Echoing Caves part 1 in Rayman 2, you have to explore different paths to hit switches and backtrack to the start. Here you turn off the power, to get access to a deeper part of the base. This changes the area drastically: everything becomes dark, more Toads come out and searchlights are activated to search for the intruder. Even those tiny little beds now become useful hiding spots that have a use gameplay-wise. Brilliantly designed, and there is nothing like this in Origins, not even its best levels come close.

Should I even write about Olympus Maximus? You already get the picture.
Winner: Rayman Legends

GAMEPLAY
I have a lot less to say here, but one thing a lot of the gameplay changes from Origins to Legends have in common is that they try to improve the flow of the gameplay. When I played Origins I often felt like the devs didn't know what the gameplay should be like: slow and precise or fast?
Now I like slow and precise gameplay, like Rayman 1, but the movement in UbiArt games isn't really made for this and it feels much more fun to run through everything. Often, that's what you did in Origins, but sometimes it stopped you in places where it felt annoying to stop.

For example, Rayman Origins has a bubblization mechanic, which requires you to stop moving to bounce on a dying enemy a second time to get extra lums. Often I felt frustrated at having to stop for this. Legends got rid of this mechanic, which was appreciated.
In similar fashion, it's well known that the air kick in Origins completely stops your momentum, and Rayman Legends fixed this. Your character's movement feels a LOT smoother as a result.

One thing I do not appreciate as much is the addition of Murfy levels. These actually slow down the gameplay. I guess these were fun in multiplayer on Wii U, but on other platforms they really weren't. There's also the duck transformation, which is completely unexpected and very funny when you first see it, but not very interesting outside of that. But it lasts only for one level.
On the other hand, Rayman Legends also adds various other gimmicks that I find pretty fun, like the stealth in the ocean world and digging in the food world.

A point that Origins fans often bring up is that it's more challenging, and this is true. However, some of this challenge seems to come from worse movement mechanics and less thought through level design...

Winner: Rayman Legends

STORY
Rayman Origins had a story that got scrapped last-minute, leaving many details in the game that lead absolutely nowhere, only serving to confuse players. The intro cutscene shows the microphone that explains how the grannies below heard the heroes snoring, but you can only tell that it's a microphone if you have read the scrapped text. Only then do you also know that the Magician put the microphone there. Only then do you understand the Magician's betrayal. Only then do you know the Magician's identity. Otherwise, there is only confusion.
Rayman Legends has no story, hence, it has no such problem.
Winner: Rayman Legends

VARIOUS
Look. Rayman Origins has pig Latin. Rayman Legends does not.
Winner: Rayman Legends

IN CONCLUSION
A lot of my arguments are my own opinions, of course, but a lot are also objective facts. People aren't wrong for preferring Origins, they can prefer what they want, however they should also recognize that Rayman Legends is a clear improvement in many areas.
I've seen weird opinions being repeated in this community, like Legends "not being as colorful as Origins" (which tells me you didn't play the game past the castle area) or it being "Ubisoft formula" (maybe the game had too much content for you? That's fair, but the quality of it all is far above what we understand now as "ubisoft formula"), to which I say: take off your weird nostalgia glasses for this unfinished Rayman Legends prototype from 2011 and play the final game. It's pretty good.
Winner: Rayman Legends

[ItzalDrake]

I agree with you Droolie, maybe I'd say something about the world design in Rayman Legends.
I agree that there's more variation in Rayman Legends but Rayman Origins had more variation when it comes to the color palette in each world.
Each world in Rayman Origins has a very distinct colour palette for the aesthetics, while for Legends the main color in all worlds is.. green and makes it look more boring esthetically than Origins..

[Droolie]

I agree with you Droolie, maybe I'd say something about the world design in Rayman Legends.
I agree that there's more variation in Rayman Legends but Rayman Origins had more variation when it comes to the color palette in each world.
Each world in Rayman Origins has a very distinct colour palette for the aesthetics, while for Legends the main color in all worlds is.. green and makes it look more boring esthetically than Origins..

I don't really see this. In fact I see much more green in official Origins screenshots on RayWiki (of course ignoring the first ones which are from the reveal trailer) than on the ones from Rayman Legends.
I agree that each world in Origins has one or two very distinct color palettes, but as I wrote before Legends expands this with more variation. Whereas Origins has only green in its first world, Rayman Legends switches between green (the forest part), grey/red (the castle) and red/orange (the siege).
Toad Story has a lot of green for sure, however with the range of sky colors (blue, yellow, purple...) it's still quite a bit more colorful than the overwhelmingly monotone light yellow/brown Desert of Dijiridoos.
Fiesta de los Muertos has next to no green and is more brownish overall, but also plays with the sky color to have very different color palettes for each level.
For 20,000 Lums, I'll give that to you, that world is pretty green.
But Olympus Maximus again starts out with a mainly light blue palette (from the sky and sea in the distance), going to dark purple and firey red. Where's the green?

Meanwhile in Origins:
Forest: green, Desert: yellow/brown, Food: light blue in the cold theme and red in the hot theme, Ocean: blue, Mountain: white/grey outside, red/orange inside, grey in the mechanical sections.
Yes, it does stand out more that each world has its own color palette if there's that little variation, but I don't think that's a good thing when the game has 15 rather long levels for each world...

[Sabertooth]

Origins has really frustrating, finnicky controls once you're used to how Legends plays. Why does attacking while walking completely halt your movement?

I also don't care for the level's themes or the gimmicks they use. I don't like being tiny in the food world, riding the snakes and getting blown in the Desert, or...swimming, in a 2D platformer, ever. That doesn't leave much in the way of "normal" levels that I can happily replay without having to deal with these things. Legends also suffers from this (ducks are the new tiny), but I don't think the gimmicks are AS pervasive (and 20,000 Lums DOESN'T ACTUALLY feature much swimming, thank youu!!).

The Moskito levels are good, though. Legends should've had more of them.

[frens]

Origins, I'm not saying legends is bad not at all but there has been lots of downgrades. Yes there were upgrades from origins to legends but they are a few

[Greengoop]

Few?

You mean:
• More characters
• Better Physics
• Better Artstyle (maybe a bit subjective)
• Better Music (everyone can agree)
• Better Environments
• More Content
• Lots of Rayman Origins levels reworked
• Invasion Levels, a lot more fun and creative than Time Attacks.
• Greengoop (God himself) prefers it
• Online mode that is still holding up 12 years later (mostly)
• A collective feature
• Leaderboards which display the 10 greatest players at something, which kinda makes dying/jumping/lum collecting feel like it’s going somewhere
• And probably many more I don’t have the time to list

[The Jonster]

I don't like being tiny in the food world, riding the snakes and getting blown in the Desert, or...swimming, in a 2D platformer, ever.

I think of all the swimming I've had to do in 2D platformers, swimming in Rayman games is definitely the most fun. I actually wish there was at least one more level in 20000 Lums where we could swim.

[Tribelle2026]

I think Rayman Origins is better than Legends. Origins has more original levels than Legends and I like Origins' artstyle better than Legends' artstyle.

[Greengoop]

I think Rayman Origins is better than Legends. Origins has more original levels than Legends and I like Origins' artstyle better than Legends' artstyle.

Why does it matter about the level originality? You get to play practically the same levels on each version

[Tribelle2026]

Rayman Legends is missing a lot of levels from Rayman Origins. It's just my opinion but I think Origins is better due better music and a better artstyle. Although 20,000 lums under the sea is my favourite world out of both games.

[The Jonster]

Why does it matter about the level originality? You get to play practically the same levels on each version

Ok then, I'd like you to post a video of yourself playing a Rayman Origins level and then playing its Rayman Legends equivalent, then come back and tell me it's the exact same level.

[Greengoop]

Yeah, but that’s what makes it original!

[Hunchman801]

I agree with almost every point Droolie made. Yet, there is one aspect of Rayman Legends I find so problematic that I struggle to decide whether I prefer it over Origins.

Yes, the world design is much more elaborate, but those environments no longer feel like they belong in Rayman's world. They act as copy-pastes of human legends, whereas the Glade of the older games was only loosely inspired by them. It's also the first "mainline" Rayman game (if you consider it one... I actually don't ) to feature human characters: a species whose absence was deeply characteristic of Rayman's universe until then.

That's why I often say it's a very good game, but not a good Rayman game. In fact, you could replace Rayman with pretty much any other hero and nothing would be lost.

At least Origins still mostly felt like it took place in the Glade of yore. However, the botched result of scrapping the (bad) plot last-minute (leaving, as Droolie said, "many details in the game that lead absolutely nowhere, only serving to confuse players") is a major deal-breaker for me. I also prefer no plot over such a mess.

Ultimately, it feels like I have to choose between a Rayman game with a messy story, or a polished game that has lost its soul.

[Droolie]

Yes, the world design is much more elaborate, but those environments no longer feel like they belong in Rayman's world. They act as copy-pastes of human legends, whereas the Glade of the older games was only loosely inspired by them. It's also the first "mainline" Rayman game (if you consider it one... I actually don't ) to feature human characters: a species whose absence was deeply characteristic of Rayman's universe until then.

I completely agree that Legends brought the Glade too close to familiar legends and fairy tales, but for the most part this is an image given by world 1 with its medieval castles and dragons. I think the beanstalk and flying ruins world is a bit better in this regard, as is the ocean world that's basically a spy movie, a bit like Rayman 2 but less inspired. I think it's still preferable over the rather boring deserts or generic lava & ice worlds Origins showed us.

As for human characters (only the princesses, I think?), I would say even Rayman 1 featured them, they were just stylized and animated without limbs (because this was easier for them). Nor were they very original either: Tarzan in the jungle, a musician and his family, a magician (and a fairy).
I think the change to human-like forms happened back in Rayman 2 with Ly, the TV series with Betina and Origins with the nymphs. Barbara is just the first one in the games that isn't a magical girl. They added her simply because they wanted a female playable character for girls to play as (I remember reading that this is the reason, I think in l'Histoire de Rayman). I think she's a rather uninspired choice though: is she meant to be Origins Betilla made into a strong, confident warrior-type character? Or is she inspired by the main character from the movie Brave that came out around the time of Legends's development? Or both?

For me, this series has always had far more interesting worlds when they didn't try to copy or parody human environments or culture, and instead focused on the fantastical and mystical world filled with nature presented in Rayman 2 and 3. Unfortunately, I can't say either Rayman Origins or Legends even came close to that, or even tried (well, maybe in early development for Origins as it has some really great concept art, but I didn't feel this in the final game at all) - so if I have to compare Origins to Legends in this aspect, both of them suck. At least Legends makes things more varied.

This didn't even start with Origins either. The tonal shift away from fantasy happened back with Rayman Raving Rabbids, which had a promising cancelled prototype set in worlds with giant trees in a sea of clouds... but then the final game gave us the Wild West. Most likely the devs simply thought that this fantastical world they created for Rayman 2 was too weird or too dark, so they went back to Rayman's roots, which had Tarzan, Mona Lisa, Mere Denis, and our main character was almost Jimi Hendrix.

[Hunchman801]

I completely agree that Legends brought the Glade too close to familiar legends and fairy tales, but for the most part this is an image given by world 1 with its medieval castles and dragons. I think the beanstalk and flying ruins world is a bit better in this regard, as is the ocean world that's basically a spy movie, a bit like Rayman 2 but less inspired. I think it's still preferable over the rather boring deserts or generic lava & ice worlds Origins showed us.

I appreciate that it's subjective, but they all feel the same to me in that regard. Whether they evoke medieval castles and dragons, Jack and the Beanstalk, or James Bond, they're all directly linked to our world. In contrast, Rayman 2, although remotely inspired by human tales (humans made the game, after all), never felt like it had any connection to the real world.

As for human characters (only the princesses, I think?), I would say even Rayman 1 featured them, they were just stylized and animated without limbs (because this was easier for them). Nor were they very original either: Tarzan in the jungle, a musician and his family, a magician (and a fairy).

Portraying those characters as stylized humans was probably the intention at the time. After all, even Rayman's lack of limbs wasn't originally meant to distinguish him as a separate species, but simply to make him easier to animate. The series' worldbuilding only really started with Rayman 2, which is why I mostly contrast Rayman 2 and 3 with the UbiArt games. Let's be honest: not much of Rayman 1 makes it into its sequel.

I think the change to human-like forms happened back in Rayman 2 with Ly, the TV series with Betina and Origins with the nymphs. Barbara is just the first one in the games that isn't a magical girl. They added her simply because they wanted a female playable character for girls to play as (I remember reading that this is the reason, I think in l'Histoire de Rayman). I think she's a rather uninspired choice though: is she meant to be Origins Betilla made into a strong, confident warrior-type character? Or is she inspired by the main character from the movie Brave that came out around the time of Legends's development? Or both?

I think there's a huge distinction to be made between Ly and Barbara. Yes, the former is humanoid, but the similarities end there. Even Rayman is somewhat humanoid, and many other characters are anthropomorphic, but it's not their physical resemblance to real humans that matters to me. Ly is referred to as a fairy, an extremely broad concept for a type of fantastical creature found in almost every culture, and has no connection to any concrete aspects of our world. She's more like an ethereal spirit of nature. Meanwhile, Barbara is explicitly described as a human, a princess, and a warrior. She is an embodiment of Western medieval tropes.

For me, this series has always had far more interesting worlds when they didn't try to copy or parody human environments or culture, and instead focused on the fantastical and mystical world filled with nature presented in Rayman 2 and 3. Unfortunately, I can't say either Rayman Origins or Legends even came close to that, or even tried (well, maybe in early development for Origins as it has some really great concept art, but I didn't feel this in the final game at all) - so if I have to compare Origins to Legends in this aspect, both of them suck. At least Legends makes things more varied.

This didn't even start with Origins either. The tonal shift away from fantasy happened back with Rayman Raving Rabbids, which had a promising cancelled prototype set in worlds with giant trees in a sea of clouds... but then the final game gave us the Wild West. Most likely the devs simply thought that this fantastical world they created for Rayman 2 was too weird or too dark, so they went back to Rayman's roots, which had Tarzan, Mona Lisa, Mere Denis, and our main character was almost Jimi Hendrix.

That I can wholeheartedly agree with.

[Dark Skink]

Few?

You mean:
• More characters
• Better Physics
• Better Artstyle (maybe a bit subjective)
• Better Music (everyone can agree)
• Better Environments
• More Content
• Lots of Rayman Origins levels reworked
• Invasion Levels, a lot more fun and creative than Time Attacks.
• Greengoop (God himself) prefers it
• Online mode that is still holding up 12 years later (mostly)
• A collective feature
• Leaderboards which display the 10 greatest players at something, which kinda makes dying/jumping/lum collecting feel like it’s going somewhere
• And probably many more I don’t have the time to list

The problem is that Ubisoft won't make it portable