Have we some kind of feedback loop with Ubisoft?

[The Jonster]

Oh dear, I guess people are just really lazy in trying to spend time gathering quality information from the internet? Who knows....

Well at the very least Ubisoft is getting high quality "borrowing" from RayWiki.

[Hunchman801]

Another likely case of citogenesis:

A number of secondary sources, such as L'Histoire de Rayman (page 152), Destructoid and Jeuxvideo.com, mention plans for the series to span across 13 episodes, and not 26, just like this article has stated since June 5 2008 and until RayCarrot changed it a few days ago. However, they also contain various other elements from this article, and since they were written after this information was added to RayWiki, I think this is (yet) another case of citogenesis. Every primary source and any other source that predates the writing of this article cites 26 episodes, so we will be sticking to this figure for now, but please come forward if we're missing anything.

[PluMGMK]

Oh wow, 26 episodes? That would have been... "Interesting" So where did the 13 figure come from? Just a guess?

[RayCarrot]

Oh yeah, I was recently discussing this with Ryemanni. We also came to the conclusion that any source stating there were going to be 13 episodes in turn got their information from RayWiki judging by the dates, which is why I updated the article. The French one correctly stated 26 episodes, and all sources we could find, including several official documents, all states 26.

So where did the 13 figure come from? Just a guess?

My best guess would be this video which ends by saying "26 x 13 minutes". Perhaps someone interpreted it as 13 episodes, being 26 minutes each.

[PluMGMK]

Aha, that makes sense. It is awkward that all these numbers tend to have 13 as a prime factor

[Master]

So I decided to randomly read the TFwiki again for the first time in a while, and I came across an article on there that very much reminds me of the topic of this thread. Namely a Wiki informing official material. Now of course TFwiki and the Transformers franchise is substantially larger than us, but it's funny to see the same pattern.

If anyone's curious: https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Circular_reporting

[PluMGMK]

I think that article would be better with an embed of the citogenesis comic, although they do at least link to it

[Hunchman801]

That's a lot of occurrences! The article cannot overstate the degree to which people working on various franchises rely on fan wikis, most said franchises completely lacking an official repository of reference material. Rayman is no exception and pretty much everyone working on the series uses RayWiki on a regular basis.

[PluMGMK]

Aaaand the new 30th anniversary re-release once again perpetuates the Bzzit myth in its achievement descriptions

[Mortamon Saturn]

OF... FUCKING... COURSE.

At that point I'm convinced they never knew how to refer to him distinctively from Moskito, and so they just said screw it and rolled with the fans' headcanon instead

But hey, let's give them a good point: they didn't steal the RayWiki pictures for the achievements this time!

[RayGamer99]

I understand that Bzzit was never called that in Rayman 1, but now that I think about it, I'm not really sure how they would have identified him besides using that name. I mean, maybe they could have just called him "the mosquito" or the "Anguish Lagoon mosquito" or something cheap like that, but if it's really between using that and taking the R2 Revolution mosquito's name and slapping it on the R1 one, I think the latter option is just better.

But hey, let's give them a good point: they didn't steal the RayWiki pictures for the achievements this time!

Glad to hear that they've at least somewhat learned from that one

[The Jonster]

Remind me which member came up with the idea of naming that particular one, "Bzzit" again

[dr_st]

Aaaand the new 30th anniversary re-release once again perpetuates the Bzzit myth in its achievement descriptions

We have to accept the fact that this has become canon, whether we agree with it or not. Honestly, the community should feel proud of its effect. In principle, there is nothing wrong with updates to the canon being made post-factum. In many video game series you will see characters appear in earlier games, but only fully introduced/explained in sequels. Let Bzzit be one of those.

I understand that Bzzit was never called that in Rayman 1, but now that I think about it, I'm not really sure how they would have identified him besides using that name. I mean, maybe they could have just called him "the mosquito" or the "Anguish Lagoon mosquito" or something cheap like that, but if it's really between using that and taking the R2 Revolution mosquito's name and slapping it on the R1 one, I think the latter option is just better.

I agree. Once you want to establish a personality, it's better to use a recognizable name.

The thing with the mosquitoes in Rayman 1 is that all the color palette limitations and confusion among developers really led to confusion among players. A mosquito appears 3 times in the game - one who fights and then befriends Rayman, one who chases Rayman with a fruit, one who fights him in the final battle. Depending on the version you play - either all 3 are colored the same, or the first appearance is different, or the last appearance is different. It is only truly clear that the last one is Moskito. If you play the PC version you will think all 3 are Moskito, and it's not clear why he becomes good, then bad. But in the PSX version the final battle looks different than the rest, so one could believe, for example, that there are several (or many) different mosquitoes, all working for "the big boss" Moskito.

Remind me which member came up with the idea of naming that particular one, "Bzzit" again

The earliest references I can find to using "Bzzit" for the R1 friendly mosquito are from Humch himself.

[Hunchman801]

I actually think it's a good thing that they kept things consistent with what they established in Rayman Classic. Like dr_st said, this has become canon, so let's be glad that they're sticking to it for once!

The thing with the mosquitoes in Rayman 1 is that all the color palette limitations and confusion among developers really led to confusion among players. A mosquito appears 3 times in the game - one who fights and then befriends Rayman, one who chases Rayman with a fruit, one who fights him in the final battle. Depending on the version you play - either all 3 are colored the same, or the first appearance is different, or the last appearance is different. It is only truly clear that the last one is Moskito. If you play the PC version you will think all 3 are Moskito, and it's not clear why he becomes good, then bad. But in the PSX version the final battle looks different than the rest, so one could believe, for example, that there are several (or many) different mosquitoes, all working for "the big boss" Moskito.

And in short, there is no way to make sense of any of this without making assumptions as to what is a mistake on the developers' part and what is not, and then coming up with our own interpretation of what they actually meant (if anything).

The earliest references I can find to using "Bzzit" for the R1 friendly mosquito are from Humch himself.

I'm also the one who added it to RaymanEncyclo, RayWiki's ancestor, and that was as early as 2003. However, I think I might have carried this over from RaymanZone? I guess we'll never know...

But I still stand by this! Although I recognize it as totally unsourced until Rayman Classic, I believe there's a high chance that the developers of Rayman Revolution intended for both friendly mosquitoes to be the same character.

Should this have featured on RayWiki before 2016? Certainly not. But in the end, even if it's the community that came up with this piece of lore, isn't it a much, much better addition than anything Ubisoft has come up with since the release of Rayman Origins? I'll let you be the judge of that.

[Mortamon Saturn]

I guess it's simply better that it ends this way! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If that's a first step towards more consistency, then I'm fully willing to embrace it!

The earliest references I can find to using "Bzzit" for the R1 friendly mosquito are from Humch himself.

I knew he was a Revolution enthusiast in denial!

But hey, let's give them a good point: they didn't steal the RayWiki pictures for the achievements this time!

Glad to hear that they've at least somewhat learned from that one

However, seems like they took some inspiration from RayCarrot's code!

[dr_st]

Should this have featured on RayWiki before 2016? Certainly not.

Ah, but therein lies the paradox. Had it not been featured on RayWiki, there is no chance that Ubisoft would have noticed it and made it canon.

But in the end, even if it's the community that came up with this piece of lore, isn't it a much, much better addition than anything Ubisoft has come up with since the release of Rayman Origins?

Since, and possibly, including, Rayman Origins.

[boomboleros7]

Although I recognize it as totally unsourced until Rayman Classic, I believe there's a high chance that the developers of Rayman Revolution intended for both friendly mosquitoes to be the same character.

I agree, and it seems Rayman Revolution devs liked the first Rayman a lot. For example, they kept Rayman's iconic Telescopic fist during the beginning of their game, to replace it by the Magic fist only after the Woods of Light.

RR devs are the only ones to have the answers about Bzzit identity, it would be nice to ask them.

[dr_st]

However, seems like they took some inspiration from RayCarrot's code!

Hah! This I can believe. Often it's very hard to find "official" nomenclature online, so you're happy to find any reference at all.

The funny thing - they've also used some fixed cycle number from this thread of mine on a different forum. BTW, although I had started said topic, the value was chosen by a different user. My recommended value was 25K (which I still use in most of my DOSBOX installations), and I prefer round numbers, so if that had been too low, I would probably choose 30K next, not 29K.

[Hunchman801]

Ah, but therein lies the paradox. Had it not been featured on RayWiki, there is no chance that Ubisoft would have noticed it and made it canon.

Indeed. What else should we write there for them to establish?

I was thinking any name other than "Ales Mansay" for the Rayman Origins Magician/Dark Teensy, because a part of me dies every time I see a fan using that godforsaken, scrapped, pig latin pathetic excuse for a name.

[hoodlumsworld]

Bzzit confirmed again: