Grolgoth Salesman

[Holy Crap]

There was most likely a trapdoor in the roof.

[stan423321]

Yes, he just pressed button. I always imagined scene when salesman see there is a lot of meat under a small layer of golden...

[El Dango]

Meat...?
Anyways, why do the salesman even trust Razorbeard? Never trust a pirate.

[stan423321]

Well, I remember my fan-fic plans with this man selling a few other things to Razorbeard, including dish-washer (really dangerous for Rayman!), Grolgoth 1.5 and a Mini Grolgoth. Oh, and very big cannon.

[El Dango]

Can't he use the big canon to do the dishes?

[stan423321]

BOOM! And there are no more dirty dishes! The only problem is there are also no more clean ones.

[El Dango]

That problem can be solved with our good friend, money.

[stan423321]

...that can be also used to buy dish-washer. Once.

[spiraldoor]

You murdered the newly-resurrected topic.

Does anybody have a pic of the Salesman? If so, they should post it. And in the same post they should quote the person on the last page who posted a pic of the Tonic Trouble guy.

[El Dango]

You murdered the newly-resurrected topic.

"Murdered?"

[stan423321]

I know what he meant.

If you need salesman snapshot, I'll maybe do it when I'll be playing R2, however I don't boot 98 lately, so it can be long time...

[spiraldoor]

The R2 guy is on top, the TT guy is on bottom. They are quite clearly the same person...interesting...

[Lijik]

I wonder if the salesman has the newer medals from the TT model's texture in Rayman 2 Revolution.

[syntheticgerbil]

The wouldn't make sense, Tonic Trouble was made before Rayman 2 on 64. Rayman 2 used a better version of Tonic Trouble's engine.

In a way, Tonic Trouble was a "test" game for Rayman 2, because it was the first time Ubisoft made a 3d game, and I don't think they wanted to mess up a Rayman game on a brand new engine. Ubisoft was a hell of a lot smaller of a company back then.

Really the main thing is, the Grolgroth Salesman is actually a cameo from Tonic Trouble IN Rayman, not a Rayman cameo in Tonic Trouble, although those exist.

[spiraldoor]

Grolgoth Salesman in R2

Grolgoth Salesman in TT(though he's speaking German...)

[Lijik]

Rayman 2 used a better version of Tonic Trouble's engine.

In a way thats wrong, when TT was finally released (which was after R2) it had better graphical output than R2 (at least on the PC, the n64 port was rather slapdashed). R2 made better use of the engine, but doesn't have the graphical enhancements that were put in TT.

[syntheticgerbil]

Huh? Tonic Trouble was started first, and sometime during production of that game, Rayman 2 was started using the same engine. Which intuitively would mean after the engine is all sorted out and the bugs were found, then Rayman 2 should be using a better version of the engine.

Tonic Trouble was released 2 months before Rayman 2 on 64 as seen here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonic_Trouble
http://www.mobygames.com/game/n64/tonic-trouble

Rayman 2 was released on PC and 64 around Halloween:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman_2
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/r ... lease-info

Now the PC version WAS delayed until December 7th here, but that doesn't necessarily mean in two months the PC version is using a better engine or a graphical overhual to make it better. The game could have just been delayed on manufacturing or maybe the long fully animated intro the PC version delayed it as Rayman 2 did not have anything like that.
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/tonic-trouble/

Also this article had backs up Tonic Trouble (the delay as well) had the 3D engine developed for it first:
http://pc.ign.com/articles/129/129368p1.html
"As Tonic Trouble was Ubi Soft's first open space 3D game, the development team was absolutely huge. In addition to a team of about 60 pure 'developers,' there were also 30 animators, 12 level designers, 12 3D artists and four people working on sound and music assigned to the project. The team used a proprietary 3D integration tool to construct the game (which took over 18 months to build at a cost of $4 million) which they call the ACP or Architecture Commune Programmation. While this all may sound like a bit much, the end result looks like it may have been worth it (well, that and the fact that they plan to use the engine to develop several other titles)."

Also this article is with a designer/programmer who worked out bugs from the initial Tonic Trouble engine to be used on Rayman 2 and 3 "later," as he says:
http://archive.gamespy.com/devdiary/november03/xiii3/
"I'm originally from Paris, and have worked in Ubisoft's Montreal studio since March 1997. The project on which I cut my teeth was, at the time, Tonic Trouble. This was a game which served mainly to develop and debug the 3D engine that was later used to create games like Rayman 2 and Rayman 3."

Furthermore on my PC version Tonic Trouble has the Rayman 2 demo on there with a coming soon screen. Which would suggest it was already made with the inclination it would be released before Rayman 2.

I don't know where you got the information that Rayman 2 didn't have "graphical enhancements" that Tonic Trouble had but I own both Rayman 2 and Tonic Trouble for PC. Their resolutions can be chosen by yourself or configuring anti aliasing on your 3D drivers/card.

Are you referring to the texture resolution? Because a major problem with the textures in the PC versions of BOTH games is that they were lower resolution as if they both used the same textures 64 versions which to me seems lazy in order to save time on resaving textures for a PC port. Remember both games were developed simultaneously for PC and 64. Also I actually do 3d, animation, and artwork for a living for a small game company so I know how this stuff works. I use 3Dsmax which was the program used to model and texture both Tonic Trouble and Rayman 2. So I'm going to need proof or an article or something on the actual idea that somehow Rayman 2 used the engine better (which I agree with this part) but Tonic Trouble had better graphics (which I don't agree).

Also the Dreamcast version of Rayman 2 used higher resolution textures, which means that the team porting it probably just resaved the Grolgroth Salesman's Rayman 2 texture at a higher resolution. From what I understand Rayman 2 Revolution reused a lot a of the textures and models upscaled for the Dreamcast. Or that's how it looks to me when I play it. It's sort of hard to tell because of all of the added stuff and environment changes.

Also here is another Q&A with Ancel on when it was started, which is July 1996, right on the heels of Rayman 1:
http://www.mobygames.com/game/n64/tonic-trouble/trivia

One other thing, I've never seen this but I came across a video of Rayman 2 beta looking for this stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KujjiLYaW8&eurl

It kind of makes me upset that Rayman 2 had prerendered video made for the game as shown in the trailer, yet it is nowhere to be found in the game! But Tonic Trouble got the long prerendered intro on the PC version. I still prefer Rayman 2 either way.

[Henchman 101]

Its weird because the tonic trouble guy is higher quility than the general (grolgoth sales man)

[Henchman 101]

Wait is the grolgoth sales man wearing only socks!
oh sorry i dident know how at first thanks

[Cairnie]

They're spats, I think.

Henchman, please edit your posts if you want to add more to one, don't double post.