Rayman 3 scores

[DTUCC]

Yeah, well... I think it's going to be over very soon... At least the search for new maximums. I think I won't rest this time until my score has reached something very close to the maximum xD
Actually, it could be fun looking for new combos. Probably there will be a time when we get every part of the game in a single combo... :p
Seriously. I don't know if I'm going to take part in that improve-combos-but-not-the-score-game. It's just not my world. I always loved to compete with others in this game. I'm not sure if it's going to be as fun to me if there's nothing to compete anymore.

However, I want to finish SBTC really quickly now. Today there just popped an incredible idea into my mind how the tribelle in part 4 of FC can be comboed for 2500 points. What satisfies me even more is the fact, that everyone would have to play the same combo there. I really don't see any way how you can improve that combo, even when you have the green can from the beginning.

I'm not quite sure whether it'll work, but to be honest I don't see any troblesome spots at all in this combo. I can't wait to test it. (btw. I still have no clue how to combo the matuvus in part 2....)

EDIT: wohoo. 100th page of this topic has been created! xD

[MandM81]

Today there just popped an incredible idea into my mind how the tribelle in part 4 of FC can be comboed for 2500 points. What satisfies me even more is the fact, that everyone would have to play the same combo there. I really don't see any way how you can improve that combo, even when you have the green can from the beginning.

That was actually what I meant with the hint from our argument back then about the 300 extra points.

I wasn't referring to the Matuvu in part 2.

[DTUCC]

DTUCC: Those are really cool videos that make up for the Tribelle Combo

i belive that's the hint you were talking about, right?
do you actually have a combo that can be played with the missing vortex? i think so, as i can't imagine a way to get the vortex somewhen in the beginning...
back then, i thought about this sentence for some time but then again I didn't find a way to combo the tribelle for 2500. so i just settled for this:

The extra points in part 2 can probably only come from the Matuvu, which can be taken for either 1.000 or 1.250 points.

that sentence actually motivated me to give the matuvus in part 2 a shot. and i'm pretty happy about it by now

i'm still stuck with part 3 of SBTC, by the way...

[sfn42]

You talked about the wish to motivate other players and how boring it is to play alone. Now you go on and on about cryptic messages and combos you deliberately keep secret. Do you two honestly think that's motivating for anybody? If not, you're hypocrites.

I made the video but the upload hasn't worked so far. The problem seems to be that the video is too big with roughly 300 MB. I'll be looking for ways to reduce the size but I don't know how long it will take me.

[DTUCC]

It's motivating in a very different way, I'd say.

What COULD happen this way? If you want to improve your score, then give it a shot. You know my score, just as I did with MandM's score. You can easily guess the sources that provide the improvements. Everything you have to find out afterwards is HOW to improve it. By thinking about the combos you might also find some improvements which even I and MandM don't know. And that's what provides progress. At least it did the last weeks, didn't it?

What's going to happen, if we make everything public? Everyone starts to play FC, after a month or so you all reached 46K there and waits for new combos to come out.

Seriously, I don't wanna sound arrogant or something, but starting to call us hypocrites or something isn't nice either...

[sfn42]

Do I have the obligation to be nice? I don't think so.

I don't have the time right now to think about R3 day and night or to plow through FC looking for other positions to get the matuvu in part 2 from or other ways to play the tribelle combo or other improvements. So excuse me if my life doesn't revolve around R3 and that I don't have the patience for the aforementioned plowing process.

Honestly, I don't understand both of your reasons for not offering your combos any more these days. I don't want to hear that shit about Cut and mostwanted's trick now. It might have been relevant in summer but look around now: where is Cut? Where is mostwanted? Who is talking about his trick? Who does even know where to find the explanation of the trick? It all reminds me of niclas who was so afraid about the cheaters or honest players taking away his position in the HoF. But there is a difference: He tried to help other players, whereas you don't anymore. I remember the old times when jona was on the top. When I or someone else asked him about sth. we always got a straight and helpful answer, nowadays the only thing we get are half-truths and cryptic replies.

I feel you're mocking and ridiculing when I read some of your answers. I did never think of you both as arrogant but maybe I was wrong. However, the climate of distrust and disrespect is obvious among the Rayman 3-players and it was fuelled by just keeping everything to oneself. I realise that I have participated it this perfidiousness in the past but not anymore. Here are my remaining secrets:

- How to get the 30 extra points in CF: Just start the final combo with 30 points more than usual. The 30 points bonus works the same way as the powerup-bonus in TLOTLD. That means you still get the combo counted at 100029 and can therefore get 109789.

- The "real" tribelle-combo in TFC part 4: This is a very old combo I developed in 2004/2005. It's worth more points than the version in MandM's solution and it is probably older (therefore the "real"). Just start with the right crab. Beat it before it gets crushed. Run to the green can afterwards. To we get to the only tricky part. Jump to the platform with the yellow gem but don't land on the gem. Run towards the cleft with the three yellow gems and take the gem in the run, at the very last moment. Then, jump from the furthest ledge of the platform and jump again to get to the three yellow gems. The rest of the combo is pretty easy: Climb up, take the gems, then the gems on the platform, the mushroom, the gem on the mushroom, fall down to the five gems, charge a fist, kill the crab and run to the tribelle for a combo worth 2840 points.
This is probably not the best version of the tribelle combo but unless MandM and DTUCC reveal their methods it is the best to go with.

- The improved TLOTLD-combo: I will upload the video when I have resolved the technical issues.

- There are two other combos that MandM has told me in secret. I will not reveal them. Although I despise the way Rayman 3 is handled and discussed nowadays, I am still a honourable person and I stay true to my word.

I think I have said enough. I will keep you updated on the video but I will not talk or play Rayman 3 in any other way until the climate here changes. I'm fed up with all the shit and the people spreading it.

[Xenon]

Isn't it odd that this topic reached 100 pages the day before its first birthday?

Now moving on to the subject at hand... I'm not really one for arguing about Rayman 3 scores (because to be honest with you, I have better things to do with my Saturday afternoon), but I'll gladly share my opinion on the case. The way I see it, everyone seems to be obsessed with their HOF rankings nowadays, so much so that they'll deviate themselves from the community by hiding new combos. I don't understand this. As far as I'm concerned, the game is about playing combos and perseverence, not about finding out new or improved combos and tactically concealing them.

You're all guilty of it. I just think it's a really cheap, immature attitude towards scoring in this game. And you know what's inevitably going to happen eventually? People are going to get bored of constantly searching levels, wasting time, trying to uncover the combos that are being kept secret, and will stop playing as a result. That's kind of the way I feel with TFC (although I know I can still make some improvements using the solution provided).

I wonder why Xenon didn't already get the 121K. He wouldn't be that far away from the 850K milestone afterwards.

I will play TLOTLD some time; it's just I'm not that motivated at the moment. The prospect of playing a whole level again is a bit too much for me at the moment. That combined with the fact I wasted time on playing parts 1, 2 and 3 unnecessarily.

[MandM81]

DTUCC and sfn: I'm away on a seminar for the next five days. I will reply in full when I return. For now I can only give a short reply.

sfn: Those were harsh words. I can't see why I'm a hypocrit, honestly. I have a very good reason not to blurt out new combos at the moment: I can't check to see if they are playable. I have shared a few ideas which I will use when I can play again. Then I will see if they work.

As for the "old" FC, I told you all my secrets, except for the Matuvu combo that I didn't use.

And as for the Tribelle Combo in room 3, here's a better version than yours: Play like you do, but get the yellow gem after the Meadowscrew in combo as well. I have a special way to get it. Then fall down and continue the combo. This combo is worth 2.940 points. I can make a video later if you can't make it work.

Look forward to your video as well.

[MandM81]

Ok, I took the time to reply sfn in full. Couldn't leave his remarks unchallenged that long.

You talked about the wish to motivate other players and how boring it is to play alone. Now you go on and on about cryptic messages and combos you deliberately keep secret. Do you two honestly think that's motivating for anybody? If not, you're hypocrites.

Not to toot my own horn, but I have developed the game from 835k points to beyond 850k points. In that process I made everything public in the walkthroughs. I have made videos of the revelation in CF part 2 and some of the combos in FC, I devised The Matuvu-Green Gem combo in LS, I made a video of the way to get the green gem for 7.500 combo points in SBTC part 3, in fact, I made a complete video walkthrough of SBTC and most recently I made a video on how to increase the maximum score in DOTK.

Why don't you give any credit for that?

I don't have the time right now to think about R3 day and night or to plow through FC looking for other positions to get the matuvu in part 2 from or other ways to play the tribelle combo or other improvements. So excuse me if my life doesn't revolve around R3 and that I don't have the patience for the aforementioned plowing process.

It is true at one point I kept some combos from FC for a select few members, but I gave them when asked about it! I remember you asked me how I got my scores in FC and straight away I gave you and everybody else the Extended Matuvu Combo in part 3 plus some minor improvements. Furthermore I also gave you the rest of my so called secrets. I gave you everything!!! So why the h... do you keep on rambling about not having time to plough through FC?

Do I have the obligation to be nice? I don't think so.

Of course not.

Honestly, I don't understand both of your reasons for not offering your combos any more these days. I don't want to hear that shit about Cut and mostwanted's trick now. It might have been relevant in summer but look around now: where is Cut? Where is mostwanted? Who is talking about his trick? Who does even know where to find the explanation of the trick? It all reminds me of niclas who was so afraid about the cheaters or honest players taking away his position in the HoF. But there is a difference: He tried to help other players, whereas you don't anymore. I remember the old times when jona was on the top. When I or someone else asked him about sth. we always got a straight and helpful answer, nowadays the only thing we get are half-truths and cryptic replies.

If you want to make a point, get your facts straight. Jona did keep something to himself to stay on top in the HoF. Just ask DTUCC. He didn't reveal his combos in SBTC part 2. Does that fact make him a lesser player in your eyes? Is he now included in the club of arrogant players?

I feel you're mocking and ridiculing when I read some of your answers. I did never think of you both as arrogant but maybe I was wrong. However, the climate of distrust and disrespect is obvious among the Rayman 3-players and it was fuelled by just keeping everything to oneself.

Please name one question you asked me that I didn't answer or one combo I kept secret from you. Arrogant hmm.

I think I have said enough. I will keep you updated on the video but I will not talk or play Rayman 3 in any other way until the climate here changes. I'm fed up with all the shit and the people spreading it.

In what way do you think that last remark will help the climate here?

[sfn42]

I appreciate all you've done for the game, I really do, but that was in the past. If you'd found your new combos in CF or SBTC a few weeks ago, would you still have revealed them? My point is: people change and perspectives change and I feel a lot has changed for the worse in this forum. Honestly, when was the last time you publicly revealed anything (except for the little hint with the tribelle, which I appreciate, of course)? I believe it was the trick in DOTK and I had that figured out before you made these videos. I think I even improved my DOTK-score before you made the video, so if you hadn't revealed it, I could have easily done so.

However, the focus of my chagrin is FC. You say you revealed everything? What about the extended Matuvu-combo in the first room of part 4? You were talking about how unhappy you are with your combo there and how you wish there was a way to combo the Matuvu for more than 1500 points. That was after your last improvement. Yet, when CC posted his video of the combo, you admitted you knew this all along.

Furthermore, you and CC keep talking about cryptic hints concerning strange improvements and about scores of 46000-47000 in FC. Yet, you say you revealed everything. Even with mostwanted's combo I couldn't get 46000, but both of you seem to know exactly how to do that and get even more.

Another thing: the extra Lums in the final combos of HH and DOTK. I don't expect anyone to make a video of getting 6 Lums but both you and DTUCC seem unwilling to share the knowledge of how to get these extra Lums. I asked for help several times, explicitly and implicitly, especially concerning HH but I never got anything. I even asked CC to make a video of how to get the second Lum from the piggy bank platform but my request got ignored.

About jona: When I asked him about a combo, I always got an answer. I asked him about a screenshot of the Knaaren-glitch, he gave it to me. I asked him about help with the Razoff-trick and he tried his best to explain the procedure of the trick to me. And jona did reveal his SBTC-combos. He waited until CC had a sufficient score in part 1 but then he explained the first two of his combos with the promise that he would explain the rest later. He didn't because CC never asked again. Believe me when I say I know a lot about this because it was a hot topic at TSF for a while and I followed the whole discussion between jona and CC closely.

This whole business is not solely about me. My little discovery in CF gave me an advantage because we made that trade but what about the others like Xenon or mostwanted or even Hunch and Jona when they were still playing. They had nothing to trade with and were probably kept in the dark even more. I realise that I don't know what you told them but I can remember mostwanted being able to do the E-3MC (reminds me of Einstein) on a regular basis but still being unable to get over 44000. Even his special combo didn't give him enough points to become world champion in TFC. Xenon already said it himself and I agree with him wholeheartedly (to the part that I admit I'm guilty of concealing combos (I mentioned this already in my previous post). Just another thing I want to add: It's no fun playing a level perfectly and still being unable to get close to the maximum score just because someone is keeping a couple of combos secret.

[Xenon]

I don't understand why anyone's keeping anything secret. Combos should be revealed by standard, from the person who discovers them. I know if I found a new maximum score in a level I'd come and tell you guys straight away... could someone explain exactly why some things are kept hidden?

[sfn42]

The initial reason was the discovery of mostwanted's trick that allows PC players to get high scores with no effort and the emergence of players like Cut who's credibility many people doubted. It seemed like a valid reason back then but now it's become redundant (I've commented on that). I kept my stuff secret to have a trading good. At first I wanted to tell my CF-trick straigt away but I decided not to do so because I felt keeping it secret could give me extra knowledge (and it did). We got caught in a vicious circle. One player kept something secret and the others had to keep their stuff secret to even get a chance of knowing the others' stuff. I thought the vicious circle was destroyed when CC made his videos but I was wrong. CC and MandM are still not telling their combos and although I've finally had the epiphany that keeping combos secret is the wrong approach, nothing has changed.

[DTUCC]

I appreciate all you've done for the game, I really do, but that was in the past. If you'd found your new combos in CF or SBTC a few weeks ago, would you still have revealed them? My point is: people change and perspectives change and I feel a lot has changed for the worse in this forum. Honestly, when was the last time you publicly revealed anything (except for the little hint with the tribelle, which I appreciate, of course)? I believe it was the trick in DOTK and I had that figured out before you made these videos. I think I even improved my DOTK-score before you made the video, so if you hadn't revealed it, I could have easily done so.

The last thing he revealed was the DOTK-thing. And he revealed it instantly after finding it out. Did he have the chance to play since then? I believe he didn't. You know, he somehow hurt his hand, which makes it a bit hard to develop combos.
However, he said he can come up with new ideas while he's forces to take a break, didn't he?

However, the focus of my chagrin is FC. You say you revealed everything? What about the extended Matuvu-combo in the first room of part 4? You were talking about how unhappy you are with your combo there and how you wish there was a way to combo the Matuvu for more than 1500 points. That was after your last improvement. Yet, when CC posted his video of the combo, you admitted you knew this all along.

When I comeup with an idea, the first thing I want to do is to test it MYSELF. He said he did test it, but couldn't get the combo to work. That means his statement of being unhappy with his combo was quite true, wasn't it?
Is there a need of revealing a combo that doesn't work?

Furthermore, you and CC keep talking about cryptic hints concerning strange improvements and about scores of 46000-47000 in FC. Yet, you say you revealed everything. Even with mostwanted's combo I couldn't get 46000, but both of you seem to know exactly how to do that and get even more.

MandM isn't even close to 46.000. That means he may have come up with his ideas after his hand started to hurt. Then again, we have the situation that he (in my opinion) pretty much has the right to test out his ideas before making them public.
Also, from the beginning I said I would reveal my combos. And I'm still sticking to this. However, I want to give others the opportunity to be creative themselves. And I also said that if you don't want to, then just stay patient. I'm not only fed up with FC for now. I'm also playing SBTC at present, and if you remember, I cancelled my SBTC-run 2 or 3 times already. And I absolutely want to get that out of the way now.

Another thing: the extra Lums in the final combos of HH and DOTK. I don't expect anyone to make a video of getting 6 Lums but both you and DTUCC seem unwilling to share the knowledge of how to get these extra Lums. I asked for help several times, explicitly and implicitly, especially concerning HH but I never got anything. I even asked CC to make a video of how to get the second Lum from the piggy bank platform but my request got ignored.

I know I promised to do so, and I have to say, I totally forgot about it. I can still make a video of it, but only after I finished SBTC. Also, in my opinion wouldn't help that much because the main problem of that combo is how to hold the camera-stick. And I can't show that at the same time. However, I'm going to make a video as soon as I'm ready to.

About jona: When I asked him about a combo, I always got an answer. I asked him about a screenshot of the Knaaren-glitch, he gave it to me. I asked him about help with the Razoff-trick and he tried his best to explain the procedure of the trick to me. And jona did reveal his SBTC-combos. He waited until CC had a sufficient score in part 1 but then he explained the first two of his combos with the promise that he would explain the rest later. He didn't because CC never asked again. Believe me when I say I know a lot about this because it was a hot topic at TSF for a while and I followed the whole discussion between jona and CC closely.

Without wanting to put the blame on jona, but he DID keep some combos secret. I actually always asked him for those combos, and he wanted me to get a decent score after part 1 first. I did, and he started to claim that he had forgotten most of his combos. He gave me some very rough explanations of two combos. Then he said "for the rest of those I have to replay the level" and that's how we left off (if you're reading this, jona, no offense!!).

Just another thing I want to add: It's no fun playing a level perfectly and still being unable to get close to the maximum score just because someone is keeping a couple of combos secret.

That's personal taste, I believe. Not knowing the combos actually is what motivated me to play FC over and over again. By now, I believe there's at least one combo of mine that MandM doesn't know. The other way round, it's the same.
And that's actually why we are only posting such cryptic messages, as you call them:
We (or at least I) want to find out those combos myself. I actually know that MandM can get that matuvus in part 2 for 1250 points in combo (at least, I think so). That makes me want to find out how to do so.
At last, let me remind you - again - that I promised to make my combos public as soon as I'm happy with my score in FC.
May I remind you that, by now, I'm only a single combo away from that?

And by the way, I'm also planning (NOT because of this argument, I did plan this before) on revealing my extended Tribelle combo in part 4 as soon as I got it to work. I planned on doing this in order to show you guys that I AM willing to make everything public.
However, those combos I developed are hell. And it took me hours to make them work. It's not easy to just let go.

[MandM81]

I appreciate all you've done for the game, I really do, but that was in the past.

All we talk about is in the past. You brought up Jona yourself, that's in the past as well.

If you'd found your new combos in CF or SBTC a few weeks ago, would you still have revealed them? My point is: people change and perspectives change and I feel a lot has changed for the worse in this forum. Honestly, when was the last time you publicly revealed anything (except for the little hint with the tribelle, which I appreciate, of course)? I believe it was the trick in DOTK and I had that figured out before you made these videos. I think I even improved my DOTK-score before you made the video, so if you hadn't revealed it, I could have easily done so.

But the fact is, I revealed it. Whether or not you were close is irrelevant.

However, the focus of my chagrin is FC. You say you revealed everything? What about the extended Matuvu-combo in the first room of part 4? You were talking about how unhappy you are with your combo there and how you wish there was a way to combo the Matuvu for more than 1500 points. That was after your last improvement. Yet, when CC posted his video of the combo, you admitted you knew this all along.

I had made that combo work once. I have already explained I can't get to the Mushroom on time if I run the way DTUCC does. Why would I reveal a combo that I didn't use or have been able to make work regularly?

Furthermore, you and CC keep talking about cryptic hints concerning strange improvements and about scores of 46000-47000 in FC. Yet, you say you revealed everything. Even with mostwanted's combo I couldn't get 46000, but both of you seem to know exactly how to do that and get even more.

I am cryptic about the combos. I have designed some combos I will play when my hand gets well. I don't know yet if they actually work. Now why on earth would I release combos I haven't even played yet? Am I not allowed to test them myself?

Another thing: the extra Lums in the final combos of HH and DOTK. I don't expect anyone to make a video of getting 6 Lums but both you and DTUCC seem unwilling to share the knowledge of how to get these extra Lums. I asked for help several times, explicitly and implicitly, especially concerning HH but I never got anything. I even asked CC to make a video of how to get the second Lum from the piggy bank platform but my request got ignore.

I seem to remember we talked about the fact that you must convert the second Lum among the Pigs. That's enough hint. If I failed to respond further, it was not a malicious thing. I must have forgotten about it. If that's the case, sorry.

About jona: When I asked him about a combo, I always got an answer. I asked him about a screenshot of the Knaaren-glitch, he gave it to me. I asked him about help with the Razoff-trick and he tried his best to explain the procedure of the trick to me. And jona did reveal his SBTC-combos. He waited until CC had a sufficient score in part 1 but then he explained the first two of his combos with the promise that he would explain the rest later. He didn't because CC never asked again. Believe me when I say I know a lot about this because it was a hot topic at TSF for a while and I followed the whole discussion between jona and CC closely.

You seem to have a selective memory I will find the actual post from Jona to prove it to you.

The initial reason was the discovery of mostwanted's trick that allows PC players to get high scores with no effort and the emergence of players like Cut who's credibility many people doubted. It seemed like a valid reason back then but now it's become redundant (I've commented on that). I kept my stuff secret to have a trading good. At first I wanted to tell my CF-trick straigt away but I decided not to do so because I felt keeping it secret could give me extra knowledge (and it did). We got caught in a vicious circle. One player kept something secret and the others had to keep their stuff secret to even get a chance of knowing the others' stuff. I thought the vicious circle was destroyed when CC made his videos but I was wrong. CC and MandM are still not telling their combos and although I've finally had the epiphany that keeping combos secret is the wrong approach, nothing has changed.

Again, what do you want me to tell? My new combos that are still on the drawing board and that I haven't played yet? As far as I know you have more points than me in FC!

[sfn42]

That's personal taste, I believe. Not knowing the combos actually is what motivated me to play FC over and over again. By now, I believe there's at least one combo of mine that MandM doesn't know. The other way round, it's the same.
And that's actually why we are only posting such cryptic messages, as you call them:
We (or at least I) want to find out those combos myself. I actually know that MandM can get that matuvus in part 2 for 1250 points in combo (at least, I think so). That makes me want to find out how to do so.
At last, let me remind you - again - that I promised to make my combos public as soon as I'm happy with my score in FC.
May I remind you that, by now, I'm only a single combo away from that?

When people want to find combos themselves they have the option to just not read anything or don't look at videos. Maybe this forum also has a spoiler function, TSF does. Both have a PM function, that's for sure. You can't just assume that everyone likes to plow through the levels just because you do. Many/most people prefer to play differently and forcing your will on them just because you don't want to read about combos is inconsiderate.

Honestly, your "I'll reveal when I'm happy"-attitude sounds very fishy to me, mostly because you're playing a bunch of other levels instead of FC right now. Levels like SBTC that can take an eternity, as you very well know. I don't know if it's true but to me it seems that you're not playing FC because you don't want to reveal your combos.

Furthermore, you completely missed my initial point. It was that "It's so bad nobody is playing any more" and "We're playing our little cryptic messages-game"-attitude that annoyed the hell out of me. Discuss that shit per PM if you want but don't do it here. With all that cryptic secrecy you just make me (and probably Xenon as well) hate R3 or don't care about the game. If one day everyone thinks that way, I will applaud you: Congratulations, you have ruined R3.

However, the focus of my chagrin is FC. You say you revealed everything? What about the extended Matuvu-combo in the first room of part 4? You were talking about how unhappy you are with your combo there and how you wish there was a way to combo the Matuvu for more than 1500 points. That was after your last improvement. Yet, when CC posted his video of the combo, you admitted you knew this all along.

When I comeup with an idea, the first thing I want to do is to test it MYSELF. He said he did test it, but couldn't get the combo to work. That means his statement of being unhappy with his combo was quite true, wasn't it?
Is there a need of revealing a combo that doesn't work?

The way he told it indicated that he had no way of getting the Matuvu for 2000 and that was obviously not true . I think he also told me he managed the combo once but blew something afterwards but decided to continue anyway. So the combo worked, he just had problems with it.

I appreciate all you've done for the game, I really do, but that was in the past. If you'd found your new combos in CF or SBTC a few weeks ago, would you still have revealed them? My point is: people change and perspectives change and I feel a lot has changed for the worse in this forum. Honestly, when was the last time you publicly revealed anything (except for the little hint with the tribelle, which I appreciate, of course)? I believe it was the trick in DOTK and I had that figured out before you made these videos. I think I even improved my DOTK-score before you made the video, so if you hadn't revealed it, I could have easily done so.

The last thing he revealed was the DOTK-thing. And he revealed it instantly after finding it out.

He didn't. He told us his score and gave us the cryptic (again) hint that he got one of the black lums. I know I've got my facts straight in that case. Look it up if you like.

Everyone has the right to test a combo, maybe even an obligation to do so. When I have a new idea I usually test it and when it works I reveal it. However, both you and MandM have/had scores that were far superior to everything found in solutions/videos. So you were beyond a testing phase. You also talk about combos here you seem to take for granted or have already done. I've expressed my sympathy with MandM for not being able to play and I still wish him the best so that his hand gets better very soon but none of that started when MandM hurt his hand. It has only gone to the extreme now with you doing exactly the same.

About jona: He may not have handled that SBTC-stuff very well back then, I agree but he answered questions and didn't give some hush-mush replies. I've asked you two general questions about FC since you have 45900 there. I didn't even ask you to reveal anything substantial. The only thing I got were cryptic messages that left me guessing what you meant. I plead for honesty and directness about Rayman 3 from now on. I will reveal anything I discover (this includes my TLOTLD-combo, which is not yet on Youtube because of technical issues).

[Xenon]

I'm not at the state of hating the game, but I certainly disapprove of the attitude towards secrecy. After I finish TLOTLD I'll be looking to replay TFC, but I'm not the sort of person who likes endlessly exploring parts of worlds to discover new combos - and to think the solution explains how to achieve little above 44k, when almost 47k is readily available, leaves me with a serious lack of motivation. Yes, one or two minor combos have been revealed both here and in private messaging, but that doesn't account for 2000-2500 missing points.

The thing people have to remember is smaller "big" scorers such as mostwanted and Jona (and admittedly, myself) rely somewhat on solutions or hints due to motivational purposes. To keep important combos concealed from us seems ridiculous as we don't even pose as threats.

[MandM81]

sfn: Ok, here's Jona's post. He never did reveal the rest of his combos even when asked many times. I remember on a few occasions when I was but a greenhorn, that he didn't always answer questions asked to him directly. So please don't make him the model for others to live up to. He too could give you a run-around or a halfbaked excuse about not being able to remember some combos. Of course one remembers one's combos, right?

I don't think you have a case against me. You do seem very angry at the moment though, so I'll put everything down to that.

@jona:
I played SBTC again.... After two weeks I finished part 1 now with 20.420
Aber I think now it is enough.... SO do you have some time now to tell me some combos?

That's enough for sure.

The first combo here is obvious, just get the HMF, open the piggy bank, kill the Spinneroo and immediately transform the black lum, then reload the HMF by jumping and landing (while moving, so you can keep running) and then get as many gems in combo as possible. The next combo is really hard, but also useless to complete correctly. If you care though, you can try to beat the Spinneroo in combo with the yellow gem. But who cares about less than 100 points. When you beat the Spinneroo, get the TC, transform the black lum and get the one or two gems that are still around in combo.

Now continue on your way in the level. You have to skip everything until you arrive at the cage. Shoot it so you get the Lockjaw. Jump upon the balloons with the gems (you can ignore the Hoodblaster, at some point when you're on the other side, he will join you on the big platform). When you get on the big platform, continue the combo by getting the gems slowly (wait till combo almost runs out, then get the next gem, and so on; this is necessary!) (I think you have to go right in the circle and not left to do the combo correctly). Here I'm not exactly sure about it, but I believe you have to give the Hoodmonger Officer that stands on the other side of the circle, a charged shot. When you continue getting gems then, he'll jump over the ledge into the circle near the place where you get your last gem, and then you can finish him with a charged shot. Obviously transform the black lum as well. Then defeat the other Hoodmonger Officer quickly. While doing this, you will hear the sound of the Hoodblaster coming on the platform here. If you hear it at about the moment you defeat the second Hoodmonger Officer, it should be fine. Transform the black lum QUICKLY, then run into a good position (so the Hoodblaster doesn't run into you, that ruins the combo). You have to get the Matuvu in combo after this. Then run behind the wooden pillars to get the yellow gems, that keep your combo running here. The Hoodblaster should position himself correctly, so after the last yellow gem, you can run back and give him a charged shot, then transform the black lum (it's hard to do). You'll get the Lavomatrix cinematic, and then respawn at a better place. Immediately go back and fall off the platform, and reach the place with some yellow gems and a piggy bank with yellow gems in it, in time. You'll have just enough Lockjaw left to get all the gems in the piggy bank with the Lockjaw in this combo. You'll have to do with a 50 combo for the rest of the gems. This combo reaches a bit over 9000.

Go back upon the big platform. You will see that there's one yellow gem left behind. Good, because you can use that one to combo the first Lavomatrix. Now shoot the last Lavomatrix until it has practically no health left, so you can defeat it with one shot. What comes now, is the most stupid thing in the entire level. In fact, I think it's just as stupid as part 3 of TBOM, where the Hoodblaster has to survive to make the combo even possible. Here, you have to walk in some way near the Lavomatrix so it moves while doing his 'fire bubbles' attack. Then it should float back into the right position, so you can beat him from the platforms above. This is to get it in a 1000 combo (you'll see it's possible when playing the level) and being able to continue the combo afterwards with all the yellow gems. Continue your way up getting those gems, be quick at shooting the snowmans and getting the gems off them, then run into the corridor. What you do now is quite tricky, but worth very many points. You can continue the combo by getting the HMF, jumping on the hanging net getting another yellow gem, get the last yellow gem there, jump off and immediately start charging your fist, when it's charged enough to open the gate, release it (this should be just in time to continue the combo). Then continue the combo with the yellow gems and the piggy bank that are located here. Run up to the yellow gem to the right of the platform with the Hoodboom. Get the gem, run back a little, jump while having a charged fist ready. It's possible to kill the Hoodboom immediately that way. Get upon the platform, transform the lum and get some gems. Combo reaches above 8000. Use the Lockjaw in this room to go back to the secret passage and get the points there (you know how it works, get as many yellow gems before red ones when necessary, get the green gem in time so you still get a 9000 combo for it, then get the rest of the gems). When coming back into the room, use the Lockjaw to get some of the remaining gems in combo, but leave the two gems located behind the wooden structure, alone. It's possible to combo those with the next room. You probably always did this already, but get the HMF and combo the Hoodblaster after getting the yellow gems there (it's recommended you get hit before doing this combo, because then you won't have problems with the Hoodblaster's shots for a while). Then you can try to combo the two gems I talked about in the game combo (you can decide whether to leave the black lum alone or not, it doesn't really matter anyway).

For the next few combos I'll have to replay this part. I'll do so later, meanwhile you can practice doing these combos, they're difficult enough to master anyway.

[sfn42]

I am not trying to make Jona a role model. I just feel that things were better in the past and I'm taking jona as an example. BTW, I checked that old topic. Jona never posted the rest of his combos because CC didn't even reply, at least that's the way I understand it. I can't say anything about your personal experience with Jona but when I asked him for help I always had the impression that he tried hard to help me. It may have been different for you, I don't know.

The thing people have to remember is smaller "big" scorers such as mostwanted and Jona (and admittedly, myself) rely somewhat on solutions or hints due to motivational purposes. To keep important combos concealed from us seems ridiculous as we don't even pose as threats.

Good point. Last time it took me a month to finish FC and now I have even less time so it would probably take me several months to finish that one level. I don't even want to talk about SBTC or TLS.

[MandM81]

I like(d) Jona as well and I also liked the time. I'd like to see myself as a carrier of that tradition for openness that were back then. And even it is in the past, I was open about everything and made my combos public, even though a select few (two) were "publicised" through PMs. At least to you I have been an open book and whether I for various reasons chose to keep some combos away from the open forum, I don't think I deserve your anger.

Like you I'm very busy daily and I don't have time to play as often as I like. It will take me months to get through FC, so you will have to be patient with those of my new combos that may prove to work in reality. I'll give them in due course.

One thing I don't understand. For me looking for new combos is the major attraction in R3. Imagine a game that holds so many possible ways to play that you can find new ways even after all these years!? It's magic. But why don't you look at the "cryptic" messages or hidden clues, or whatever, that emanated from DTUCC and myself as a challenge? If someone suggested that the Tribelle in room 3 could be taken for 2.500 points in combo, why don't you rush to room 3 and find out yourself how, or if, it can be done? Why do you wait for someone to tell how, or if, it can be done? It seems like you lay the burden over on DTUCC's and my shoulders to advice you how to play. And when the answer is not to your satisfaction, you get angry and call us names.

I can't play for a while as you know, why don't you try to find out for me how to crack the Tribelle Combo in FC part 4 room 3?

[sfn42]

There are a few things you don't understand I think. I'll try to explain.

Lashing out at you and DTUCC was not a sudden decision. It all started with the argument you two had a while ago. I think you both were behaving quite arrogantly back then. You, MandM, emphazised how much you had done for the game, how many videos you provided, how many solutions you wrote, how you developed the game to a new level. The way you said it and didn't stop saying it, was arrogant in my opinion. DTUCC on the other hand talked as if he was the messias of Rayman 3, who brings openness back to the game and reveals all the combos - in an equally arrogant fashion. That was the first time I felt that the first and second place in the HoF had gone to both of your heads. I stayed quiet back then, for various reasons which are not important right now. They were several other occassions when I was close to writing such a harsh critique (for instance when you were talking about TSF as if it had no importance whatsoever or when DTUCC didn't answer my questions on TSF). This time it was enough and I decided to just write what I thought. I admit I was a little unfair to you because most of my blame goes to DTUCC who has been ultra-cryptic and entirely unhelpful recently, especially when you consider the way he preached openness when you had your argument back then.

However, I have the impression that you don't even consider what I'm writing about. Messages like "You do seem very angry at the moment though, so I'll put everything down to that." or "And when the answer is not to your satisfaction, you get angry and call us names." make me think that you just put my critique away as "he's angry and doesn't know what he's talking about." I've explained several times why I'm not playing FC. I have nothing to win in that level. You and DTUCC were talking about 3 or whatever ways to get past 46000. I don't even know one of them. The only improvements out there for me are the red gem in part 3, getting all the piggy banks in one combo (I don't even know if that works), the little improvement in the Tribelle-combo you told me about, one worthless yellow gem and one little thing in the Funkyboard. Altogether they give me about 250-280 points. Great, isn't it? Other than that I have just some vague hints to work with, hints that are not motivating me at all. That's what you don't (want to) understand. These cryptic messages are not motivating for me, they are exactly the opposite. You have to understand that. I feel you're mocking me when you ask questions and talk about stuff I've explained several times in great detail in previous posts. That way you and DTUCC have been answering my claims I get the impression that you just leaf through my posts, press the "quote"-button and then talk about some marginal details whereas you leave out the important parts that explain why I'm unhappy with the whole situation.