Rayman Origins

[Jewish Candy]

Terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible...

[MrBadGuy]

You know what doesn't make sense? That he has his R3 appearance despite the game being set before all the others, oh well

They’re not going to screw around with his appearance so he looks like he looked fifteen years ago just to avoid a miniscule continuity error. I don’t understand why anyone cares about this. It’s like Sonic fans and the green-eyes debate. I does not matter. At all.

I don't actually have a problem with this, I was just pointing it out. In fact I would have been very surprised if it hadn't been the R3 design

[Xenon]

I don't think Rayman's appearance was even designed to change at all. His image always reflected what the present-day technology was capable of achieving, and when you think about it nothing's changed in Rayman Origins. He's still got a purple top, he's still limbless. He's just graphically advanced.

[MrBadGuy]

I don't think Rayman's appearance was even designed to change at all. His image always reflected what the present-day technology was capable of achieving, and when you think about it nothing's changed in Rayman Origins. He's still got a purple top, he's still limbless. He's just graphically advanced.

You telling me that the GBA is more powerful than the PSOne? Because the PSOne was the current technology when R1 came out, yet the GBA R3 and RRR have Rayman in his R3 appearance. I agree that it just doesn't matter though, he's the same character.

[Xenon]

I wouldn't say more powerful, but it's certainly arguable that modern handheld consoles are more advanced than ancient ordinary consoles.

[MrBadGuy]

Well I don't see how his R3 appearance is more 'advanced' that his R1 appearance. I think they changed it to make it more appealing to young gamers (Hoodies... young people... apparently there's a connection)

[Ephriokko]

Ohhhh boy... long post, here I come...

For the love of god, it is very likely this is a ret con or a continuity reboot like people have speculated and it's RIDICULOUS to say the devs are 'screwing up'

You seem to think that retcons are a good thing... at least you don't seem to see them as bad, which is an interesting approach that I haven't encountered before...

A ret con doesn't have to be good, but it also doesn't have to be bad. Just because it can be bad a lot of the time doesn't mean it's ALWAYS bad. That would be generalizing, and generalizing doesn't often tend to be completely accurate.

I'd like to reiterate my previous point that everything I've criticised has been done keeping in mind that it is only based on what we've seen so far. I have no reason to think that they would change it drastically, so I will stand by my view of Rayman and Globox's idiocy in this game making no sense from what we've seen so far. Who knows what reasons they might come up with later, but it is ridiculous to say that we cannot discuss the game because we don't have all the info yet.

You're absolutely right. It IS ridiculous to say that someone can't discuss the game because of lack of info. But I didn't say that, now did I? Please read more carefully next time.

Yes, all we have is one trailer, but my your logic, we would have to wait for the full game to come out before commenting on it, so this topic shouldn't really exist then? I cannot speak for other members, but I have not been judging the final game, I have been judging the game as we have seen it based on the trailer, and I have not liked what I have seen so far. That does not make me narrow-minded or retarded.

I think you are misunderstanding my logic, as well as missing the point of my entire post. You seem to be assuming that I'm saying that people should not post negatively on it if they do not like it, and that people should only comment if they blindly praise it. That is not what I'm saying. I am trying to convince people to have an open mind instead of just automatically assuming that it will be bad - OR good - with such little information. Having a view on something does not make someone narrow-minded or retarded. It is when people refuse to change their view or look at other possibilities that they become narrow-minded and tend to make themselves look like ignorant morons. Again, not all people who are not pleased with Origins so far act this way, but I happen to be extremely annoyed with the people who do act so immaturely.

I am not trying to cause an argument, I simply don't like you stating that criticism of an unfinished product is absolutely retarded.

Once again you are misunderstanding my point. I never said that criticism of an unfinished product is absolutely retarded. I said several things, and that was NOT one of them. I recall saying several things, and I am sorry that it appears that you have completely misunderstood everything I've said and mixed it all up. Allow me to clarify.

-It's ridiculous to say that the devs are screwing up and making stupid errors that fans can whine about when they are fully aware of what they're doing. It's like saying that the devs screwed up when they changed Rayman's design for R3 because 'they aren't using the same design that they used to.' I find it stupid that people say the devs are 'screwing up' when they are aware of what they are doing, yet apparently people seem to assume that because it is not the same as would perfectly fit in with other games, they're making mistakes and screwing up without realizing it.

-When I said that I found it retarded and narrow-minded to be completely pessimistic based on one trailer, I was referring to a large majority of people I've seen that are so focused on the things they don't like that they're refusing to see the possibilities of what could be good, and rejecting the positive possibilities that other members bring up. Look near the beginning of the thread and you'll see what I mean; according to one member it is apparently mandatory as a 'true fan' to criticize everything they don't like from what they've seen.

Perhaps if we all posted something similar to this you would approve:

OMFG a new RAYMAN GAME I AM SO FUCKING EXCITED. I DONT CARE HOW IT TURNS OUT OR IF IT RUINS THE REPUTATION OF THE SERIES I JUST WANT MOAR GAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111

At this point... I feel like you're just trying to insult me. Very mature of you, I'm sure...

Now, moving on...

Hopefully Michel ancel will get in on the controls for the iphone/itouch version...
I don't want any crappy dpad controls, because it would take up part of the screen and ruin the beauty of the game.
I'm probably going to get the ps3 version for xmas and get the itouch version later when it comes out with my remaining itunes money.

As long as they don't use idiotic controls like previous 3D Rayman releases on iPhone and the DS have, it's got to be better.

You know what doesn't make sense? That he has his R3 appearance despite the game being set before all the others, oh well

They’re not going to screw around with his appearance so he looks like he looked fifteen years ago just to avoid a miniscule continuity error. I don’t understand why anyone cares about this. It’s like Sonic fans and the green-eyes debate. I does not matter. At all.

Exactly. If only I didn't have such trouble trying to convey what I mean all of the time, perhaps I could have said something like this from the start. You said it a lot better than I could've though. =P

The line ‘how this uncontrollable individual and his grotesque companion become the heroes that we know’ indicates a link between Rayman Origins and the previous games. Of course the game itself will be a colossal retcon from start to finish (all prequels are, considering how they all tamper with past events), but it will not be a reboot.

You're right, it's most likely a retcon more than anything else. There's always the possibility of a reboot, however small, so I didn't feel the need to leave it out.

I don’t expect the developers to specifically reference or foreshadow events in the other games, not because they are being ignored but simply because there is no reason to do so. The other games largely kept to themselves, so why deviate from that?

Good point. That's a bit like my thinking of 'alternate continuities,' which I have endless trouble trying to explain but is essentially a way of saying that the games don't have to connect with each other to be canon.

You say that the developers won’t attempt to elaborate the series continuity because people will ‘disagree’ and ‘find holes in the logic’. Could you elaborate on this? I don’t see why a game should go out of its way to avoid ‘disagreements’. Nor do I see why ‘holes in the logic’ should deter them from developing the story. If they say (for example) that the Robo-Pirates were sent by the Leptys or that the Great Protoon is the Heart of the World or the Grolgoth salesman was Mister Dark in disguise, then those things are indisputable canonical fact, and if such retroactive manipulation of scenarios causes a few ‘holes in the logic’, then so be it. It doesn’t matter. Such errors happen in every long-running series. Every single one. And most of them can be rationalised without too much difficulty. They should not allow the trivial whims of the previous development teams to close off vast avenues of possibility. If they did, then Rayman Origins would not exist at all.

Point taken. I suppose I'm mostly just dreading the coming of an argument akin to the 'Sonic with green eyes' one you mentioned earlier. Whether it's canon or not, we'll inevitably have to deal with that kind of debate. While pointless, it DOES happen. And that's where the headache starts...

I laughed at the Grolgoth salesman being Mr. Dark in disguise. Nice one. XD

"Look everybody, Rayman's torso is two rows of pixels wider in this game! God, the developers are such idiots and amateurs! This game sucks so much!"

Why do people have to act so upset over such tiny details? Let the artists be creative and let them explore a new style for Rayman and his world, and give them enough space to take Rayman's story in a new direction and introduce new elements in Rayman's world so those can be used in later games.

Come on everyone, from what we know this game is beautifully creative and breaths fresh air into the series. Don't ruin it by complaining about such tiny details, please. Just enjoy this game and get over it's shortcomings.

To the people who like to troll about tiny details here: what kind of fans are you really actually? After seven years of waiting for a new game, and after three years of this game seeming very unlikely to be ever made, you're still complaining about this game? If that's your attitude, why should Ubisoft even bother to make games for you all? You're not going to like them anyway for some tiny details, no matter how much work and money Ubisoft puts in it. Do you all really think that all those 8-year old girls playing on their Wii are wanting a game like this? No they don't. Look at the platforms this game is released on. Mostly older people play on these. Ubisoft wants to give this game as "a gift" to a fan community which has been so loyal and didn't give up the wait for so long. And this is how you welcome this? Like we Dutchies say, "Kijk een gegeven paard nooit in de bek!".

^ This. Although it's a stretch to say that you'll have to like it to be a true fan, I do agree that people should at least try to look at both sides of the coin before taking a side. Although some of you might seem to believe otherwise, I'm completely aware of the 'flaws' and such that you're worried about. I can understand the pessimism, and I can understand the optimism. I just tire of people who aren't willing to look at both sides before stubbornly clinging to one argument over the other, namely 'this is gonna suck' or 'this is gonna be great.' Personally, I'm adopting a tentative optimism and trust that the development team - especially with Ancel on board - knows what they're doing. I know that the hope could be crushed, and that the game could turn out to be a total flop. But I'd prefer to put my trust in the team to finally bring back Rayman without the Rabbids into a game that I can smile about like the older ones did. I believe that Rayman could finally get out of the hole Ubi's buried him in, and I'd rather be hopeful instead of pessimistic. I'd rather cheer Rayman on while he's climbing outta that hole instead of telling him it's pointless and that he should just give up anyways.

I often think that those people who are ranting about everything and all don't know what they want. Final dot.

This too. XD

I agree that people shouldn't fuss. The Star Trek fans coped with the Klingon thing - and that's pretty major, considering the complete change in character and appearance. They found ways to explain it, if they needed to, and later the creators thanked their non-complainingy-ness with an official explanation. Surely any holes in Rayman should be easier to fix than this?

I understand why people are complaining, though, and I blame Sega for it. In the Sonic fandom, there's all this hope and "OMFG THIS WILL BE TEH AWESOMEZ" at the beginning of development, only for the finished product to be rather underwhelming. Thus, fans of other series strive to NOT get too excited about new chapters in their respective franchises (except the Mario bunch, it seems...), although they often fail.
I don't think people are really that angry that Rayman is a retard, or that Livingstones have limbs, or his hoodie is the wrong shade of plum etc. - they're just trying to find ways to be realistic. Although it admittedly ends up as something of a hatefest , and it's likely that a lot of the fans who aren't inclined towards RO do care about Rayman's hoodie. Still, I'm just happy to be getting a game from Ubi.

Yep, SEGA certainly had a hand in the trend of fan-skepticism. I'm a partial fan of Sonic as well, but more of a distant onlooker; I only hold interest at all, to be honest, because I played one or two of the games as a kid a lot and have some rather entertaining memories of it. It's not my top priority on things I'm hopeful for, but I'm one of the people that wishes for the newer Sonic titles to finally stop the poor blue dude's reputation from being dragged in the dirt.

Well I don't see how his R3 appearance is more 'advanced' that his R1 appearance. I think they changed it to make it more appealing to young gamers (Hoodies... young people... apparently there's a connection)

I think it was a way to help reflect his personality some more. From what I remember, Ancel wanted to change his design in R3 because in R3, Ray's personality was closer to what he intended it to be in the first place. 'Course, I can't remember where I got that from, and I don't have proof or evidence, but I think that's how it went...

[Raymale]

Personally I like the hoodie on rayman but it makes no sense because the game has already been announced as a prequel. I agree with MrBadGuy
R2 for the iphone's controls weren't horrid.
They were good, you just have to play the game for a hour and you get used to them. I hate these types of people who either pick up the game for 5 seconds and say, "this game has shitty controls because im not used to them yet" or judge the game from what everyone says about it.
But rayman ds, I agree with you on that. I friend lent me the game once. Using the touch screen for moving is completely awkward on the ds because you have buttons on the side, and the dpad controls lagged a ton...

I'm happy that were getting a new rayman game, but it is just flawed at the moment.. Doesn't make ANY SENSE that he's wearing his hoodie if the game came before R1.

It would be cool if you could switch the hoodie for the bandanna in the options menu

[MrBadGuy]

@ Ephriokko, First off I'd like to say that I didn't read your entire post because it's really long and I'm pretty tired (1.35am here)

Also, I think you misunderstood my post as well, and it wasn't completely directed at you, so some of the "I didn't say that" points you make are valid but I was generalising

Perhaps if we all posted something similar to this you would approve:

OMFG a new RAYMAN GAME I AM SO FUCKING EXCITED. I DONT CARE HOW IT TURNS OUT OR IF IT RUINS THE REPUTATION OF THE SERIES I JUST WANT MOAR GAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111

At this point... I feel like you're just trying to insult me. Very mature of you, I'm sure...

Okay I posted that because in your previous post you seem to imply that a new Rayman game was absolutely a good thing, whereas it can easily be a bad thing if done wrong, I'm not saying it will be done wrong. Sorry if you feel I was trying to insult you, I have nothing against you at all

I think it was a way to help reflect his personality some more. From what I remember, Ancel wanted to change his design in R3 because in R3, Ray's personality was closer to what he intended it to be in the first place. 'Course, I can't remember where I got that from, and I don't have proof or evidence, but I think that's how it went...

I agree with this. In R2 Rayman is more serious and his character design reflects this, whereas in R3 he's more... playful... or something (can't think of the right word, it's late damnit!)

Also, I already stated that I have no problem with his appearance.

Anyway, I will stick by my criticism of Rayman's apparent personality in this game, as I see no reason to retract it, and I certainly still feel the same way about it.

[Sabertooth]

For anyone pointing out that Rayman's appearance making no sense due to it being a prequel, they are clothes. He probably just took off the hoodie and put on a scarf. Simple explanation.

[Rayfist]

We do need to have a more serious game like rayman 2. THis seems like the same animation style as they did on RRR tv party. I still think it looks awesome though.

[Haruka]

If they keeped the R1 style it would be a negative surprise watching him with the behaviour we saw on the trailer.

The R3 design isn't a problem for me.

[Ephriokko]

Personally I like the hoodie on rayman but it makes no sense because the game has already been announced as a prequel. I agree with MrBadGuy
R2 for the iphone's controls weren't horrid.
They were good, you just have to play the game for a hour and you get used to them. I hate these types of people who either pick up the game for 5 seconds and say, "this game has shitty controls because im not used to them yet" or judge the game from what everyone says about it.
But rayman ds, I agree with you on that. I friend lent me the game once. Using the touch screen for moving is completely awkward on the ds because you have buttons on the side, and the dpad controls lagged a ton...

I'm happy that were getting a new rayman game, but it is just flawed at the moment.. Doesn't make ANY SENSE that he's wearing his hoodie if the game came before R1.

It would be cool if you could switch the hoodie for the bandanna in the options menu

Point taken, I haven't actually played either game, so I wouldn't really know, especially since I didn't look up much about the iPhone version. But I know that the DS controls are sucky according to a majority of people, and looking at the control scheme myself I can already tell how terrible it would be.

...I'm tired of trying to point out that clothes don't make a difference, seems like people will keep on complaining about that no matter what. Still annoys me to no end... I really like the idea of an option though, that'd be cool. =P I can't see them actually putting it in a 2D game like this though... in a 3D game, though, I think that'd be awesome.

@ Ephriokko, First off I'd like to say that I didn't read your entire post because it's really long and I'm pretty tired (1.35am here)

Also, I think you misunderstood my post as well, and it wasn't completely directed at you, so some of the "I didn't say that" points you make are valid but I was generalising

Perhaps if we all posted something similar to this you would approve:

OMFG a new RAYMAN GAME I AM SO FUCKING EXCITED. I DONT CARE HOW IT TURNS OUT OR IF IT RUINS THE REPUTATION OF THE SERIES I JUST WANT MOAR GAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111

At this point... I feel like you're just trying to insult me. Very mature of you, I'm sure...

Okay I posted that because in your previous post you seem to imply that a new Rayman game was absolutely a good thing, whereas it can easily be a bad thing if done wrong, I'm not saying it will be done wrong. Sorry if you feel I was trying to insult you, I have nothing against you at all

I think it was a way to help reflect his personality some more. From what I remember, Ancel wanted to change his design in R3 because in R3, Ray's personality was closer to what he intended it to be in the first place. 'Course, I can't remember where I got that from, and I don't have proof or evidence, but I think that's how it went...

I agree with this. In R2 Rayman is more serious and his character design reflects this, whereas in R3 he's more... playful... or something (can't think of the right word, it's late damnit!)

Also, I already stated that I have no problem with his appearance.

Anyway, I will stick by my criticism of Rayman's apparent personality in this game, as I see no reason to retract it, and I certainly still feel the same way about it.

...Man, I hate it when people decide to reply to something I say when they didn't read all of it. It's even more aggravating if they even say they didn't read all of it. If you're tired, you could wait until you're NOT tired to reply, because it is honestly very annoying when people say they understand your whole argument and thoughts when they clearly did not read much of it at all.

I never meant to imply that it was you specifically that complained about the clothes, and I don't recall saying so anyways. Ever take that into account?

If you don't want people to misunderstand that you're talking about them specifically, then say 'people' or 'they' or something instead of 'you.' I know that using 'you' is generally how you could easily talk about it, but saying it in this instance is more than a little confusing and rather easy to misinterpret.

Please read the whole post before you reply next time. It's hurtful when someone doesn't even bother to read everything I've typed out in response to them. If you're going to have a debate of some kind or expect to defend your opinion, you should look at the whole argument before hammering away at it. I read all of your arguments. Is it too much to ask the same thing in return?

We do need to have a more serious game like rayman 2. THis seems like the same animation style as they did on RRR tv party. I still think it looks awesome though.

Ancel intended for Rayman to have the R3 personality from the start, just didn't get the chance to implement it since the other two games were more focused on the gameplay/story/environments/etc. As MrBadGuy said earlier(which I agree with), he's more playful and takes himself less seriously but still cares about his friends and such. With that vision in mind it might be difficult to do a serious game for a while - besides, we won't know how a more serious game could work out until we've seen Origins to the end. Wishing Origins was a more serious game is futile at this point, but who knows? Depending on how Origins turns out, we might just get a serious game afterwords. Maybe, maybe not; who knows?

I'd personally love to see a hybrid of the Ancel-intended-personality Rayman(R3 + future after craziness ends in Origins ) with a story and game with the same feel as R2. That would be AWESOME.

[MrBadGuy]

...Man, I hate it when people decide to reply to something I say when they didn't read all of it. It's even more aggravating if they even say they didn't read all of it. If you're tired, you could wait until you're NOT tired to reply, because it is honestly very annoying when people say they understand your whole argument and thoughts when they clearly did not read much of it at all.

Okay my bad, I should have been more specific, I did read all of the bits of your post that were directed at me, just stopped after that. I checked the rest just now and there was nothing concerning our discussion that I didn't read.

I never meant to imply that it was you specifically that complained about the clothes, and I don't recall saying so anyways. Ever take that into account?

Yes it did occur to me, I just wanted to make sure it was clear

If you don't want people to misunderstand that you're talking about them specifically, then say 'people' or 'they' or something instead of 'you.' I know that using 'you' is generally how you could easily talk about it, but saying it in this instance is more than a little confusing and rather easy to misinterpret.

Sorry

Please read the whole post before you reply next time. It's hurtful when someone doesn't even bother to read everything I've typed out in response to them. If you're going to have a debate of some kind or expect to defend your opinion, you should look at the whole argument before hammering away at it. I read all of your arguments. Is it too much to ask the same thing in return?

Again, I apologise but I've read it now

I hope that you understand now that all of my personal criticism is valid and I realise that everything that I'm concerned about with this game could be changed, but I find it extremely unlikely. We cool?

[Ephriokko]

Sounds to me like everything's been resolved, all misunderstandings made clear...

So yeah, we're cool.

[Xenon]

Well I don't see how his R3 appearance is more 'advanced' that his R1 appearance. I think they changed it to make it more appealing to young gamers (Hoodies... young people... apparently there's a connection)

Ubisoft went into more detail with his appearance. They accentuated his stylish hair, gave his eyes more character and made some minor changes to his outfit because the improved level of graphics allowed them to do that. This was what I meant by 'advanced'.

[MrBadGuy]

Well I don't see how his R3 appearance is more 'advanced' that his R1 appearance. I think they changed it to make it more appealing to young gamers (Hoodies... young people... apparently there's a connection)

Ubisoft went into more detail with his appearance. They accentuated his stylish hair, gave his eyes more character and made some minor changes to his outfit because the improved level of graphics allowed them to do that. This was what I meant by 'advanced'.

Okay well I didn't notice any improved detail (and I don't see how there could be any on a low-res GBA screen)
And I lol'd at the 'stylish hair' thing

[Xenon]

Okay well I didn't notice any improved detail (and I don't see how there could be any on a low-res GBA screen)

He looked crap in R3 GBA anyway... it's not like they were gonna revert back to the old R1-style look..

[Haruka]

Come on, let's not discuss about tiny details for now.

[MrBadGuy]

Come on, let's not discuss about tiny details for now.

Bon idée