Rayman: Revenge of the Dark

[MrBadGuy]

You actually think this will get published???!! It's best to try and get over that delusion now than get completely shot down later I'm afraid.

Don't get me wrong, if you go for it I'm 100% behind you all the way, but it's just completely unrealistic.

[Adsolution]

I don't think you're following me. I won't let myself get shot down. There's not one point where I'll ever even consider the words "give" and "up" in the same sentence unless I'm talking of the negative. I live to disrespect the impossible.

[MrBadGuy]

But it isn't up to you whether you get shot down. Getting 'shot down' has nothing to do with your reaction to Ubi's rejection, it means that they will say no. If you keep asking, you'll keep getting shot down. Whether you remain determined or not is another matter.

[Ephriokko]

Oh dear... herein lies the root of my doubts...

I don't feel like going off into a winded explanation... but I wouldn't call being realistic the same as giving up. Even if you were to put all of the publishing issues aside, how would people react? Think about it. How would the fans react? How would Ancel react?

I'm sorry, but I can think of many more negative reactions than there could be positive ones...

[Adsolution]

But it isn't up to you whether you get shot down. Getting 'shot down' has nothing to do with your reaction to Ubi's rejection, it means that they will say no. If you keep asking, you'll keep getting shot down. Whether you remain determined or not is another matter.

That's if they decide something that can make them a lot of money they want to shoot down. I'm sure Ancel would like it.

[Ephriokko]

But it isn't up to you whether you get shot down. Getting 'shot down' has nothing to do with your reaction to Ubi's rejection, it means that they will say no. If you keep asking, you'll keep getting shot down. Whether you remain determined or not is another matter.

I'm sorry, Ray9876, but I'd have to agree with him here. =(

But it isn't up to you whether you get shot down. Getting 'shot down' has nothing to do with your reaction to Ubi's rejection, it means that they will say no. If you keep asking, you'll keep getting shot down. Whether you remain determined or not is another matter.

That's if they decide something that can make them a lot of money they want to shoot down. I'm sure Ancel would like it.

Have you really thought about it hard? How do you know whether Ancel would like/dislike it?

[Adsolution]

But it isn't up to you whether you get shot down. Getting 'shot down' has nothing to do with your reaction to Ubi's rejection, it means that they will say no. If you keep asking, you'll keep getting shot down. Whether you remain determined or not is another matter.

I'm sorry, Ray9876, but I'd have to agree with him here. =(

But it isn't up to you whether you get shot down. Getting 'shot down' has nothing to do with your reaction to Ubi's rejection, it means that they will say no. If you keep asking, you'll keep getting shot down. Whether you remain determined or not is another matter.

That's if they decide something that can make them a lot of money they want to shoot down. I'm sure Ancel would like it.

Have you really thought about it hard? How do you know whether Ancel would like/dislike it?

They're human beings. They're not robots programmed to say no. You have no idea if they'll even say yes the first time. Of course that's not lightening my determination, and I'm not letting you tell me that it's not realistic, because it sure wholeheartedly is.

[Ephriokko]

Of course they're not robots programmed to say 'no.' I'm trying to point out that perhaps there's a better way to do something like this than just stubbornly trying until they say yes. I'd say that if you want to get a Rayman game published by Ubi, work towards making your way to the team that works on Rayman games so that you can suggest ideas for it or work on it without issue. You'd have to learn French, most likely, since the company and its teams are French, and you'd have to prove yourself to have enough skill to make your way high enough to suggest things... but I think that's a more realistic goal than blindly stabbing in the dark with a fangame without really knowing what Ancel & his team are looking for.

I wasn't just talking about the development team when I was saying to think about how people would react. The fandom and the supporters of the game are very important as well, as they're the ones that keep buying the games and encourage Ubi to permit Ancel's team to make more. I know more than a few people that would cry with outrage at the addition of Raygirl or Rayman having a son with her.

The game as it is right now from what I've seen might not be such a great idea with Moskette/Raygirl/etc.

Now when I think about it... since this is set between R1 and R2, you could try to fill in the gaps. You could replace and tweak much of Raygirl's roles or dialogue to be Ly, for example, to show how maybe how she and Rayman met. You could probably do a whole thing with how the citizens of the Glade first saw Rayman sleeping under a tree on the beach and didn't know where he came from; before that he could have easily been from a land where only limbless beings were, as is the case as previously explained in some R2 manuals and such... maybe the Dark Rayman dude you have did something to destroy all the other limbless population from the Valley where Rayman was in R1, with Rayman being the only survivor washing up on the beach or something. Like... maybe partway through the game, Rayman was on his way to defeat D. Rayman but before he could get there, Dark Rayman succeeded in destroying everything in the Valley, essentially eliminating the whole limbless population. Then when he later found out that Rayman was still alive and in a new land he could go after to destroy/conquer/whatever it is he does, he set out for there. And then Rayman has to defend this new land/his future home from his doppelganger before it gets wiped out too. Or something.

Iono, just think like that... with the whole '1.5' thing I think it ought to be a bit of a bridge connecting the first game to the second instead of a completely new story. If you wanted a completely new story you could name it/have it take place elsewhere. And stuff.

Not trying to shoot you down, never have. But things are going to need a lot of work before it could be anything near published material. It's probably best, by the way, to refine the settings/story/etc and make sure it's all okay before working on all the 3D models and stuff... just a thought.

[Adsolution]

Oh of course I'll take all that into consideration, I'm just not always great a writing long walls to describe the same thing you did.

I will find some way around the story so there's as few gaps as possible, yet still keep it as close to my plans as possible.

[Ephriokko]

Mm... alright. Well, I'll be happy to help out as far as those kind of continuity ideas go if you want me to.

[Joshua822]

You can count on me for that too

And let's all relax about if this game can get released or not. At least seven years are still needed to finish this game, and no one can tell what will happen over seven yeras. So let's just wait and see. It's an ambitious plan, but you never know what Ubisoft will think then about releasing this game. Like we Dutchies say: "een nee heb je, een ja kun je krijgen"

Although, Rayfan, the people here do have a point. You can try to get this game released, but there's a very good chance that Ubisoft's answer will be no. Manufacturing the game, publishing the game in stores and marketing it well costs a lot of money, and if Ubisoft sees no market for the game and doesn't find investors for it, they will say no no matter how much you beg them to release your game.

So, in the case Ubisoft says no, please, don't be shut down. It doesn't have anything to do with you, just with the money needed

[Tenderz]

Like we Dutchies say: "een nee heb je, een ja kun je krijgen"

Yeah i heard that one a few times

[Bloodgrey]

Copyright issue is a tricky thing, if the original creator really wants to publish a fangame, even then he couldn't afford to do. The fact that they publishing a fangame under their name makes them vulnerable for copyright laws. This situation makes you able to sue them cause of claiming they published your stuff without letting them to do so. Now here's the deal, you might say you won't sue them, you are not for this, you are a nice guy yadda yadda yadda... That's not working in business, since they don't knonwyou, they can't rely on this, so they can't let this happen, even if you are a babyface (wrestling term, check it if you dont know ).

Other thing is that you are using an engine of another developer and publisher, so even if you are making an awesome game (no pun intended, just pitching the possibilities), they have to buy the engine from the other developers, or they have to restart the whole thing from scratch and build up the game in their own engine with your help, that means helluva lot money for just a fangame you want to publish because you think it's awesome, and that's not something I say that's their pont of view since there's no proof in business for them about the succes of the game, heck, even some of the official games suck. From this point it's more easier for them to make a game with their professional co-workers, their engine, their story and satisfy the audience whith what they really like. And like I say, you'r game could be awesome, but in business you are just one in the million with your own concept for the game that you like, so there's no proof for them that if they jump into this blindly, they will come out of it clean.

So I really appreciate the enthusiasm, but it doesn't work this way you tought it up. It's not that black and white as a fan woud think.

The game has a nice concept so far by the way. So way to go.

[PowerPatrick]

Remember that "fair use" still protects most fangames from copyright. No direct copyrighted material is being used, except for the Rayman 3 model, which has been replaced with something made from scratch. A fangame should just avoid to be commercial, because if it has any impacts on sales from the original creators, "fair use" no longer covers it. But an ultimate way of protecting an fangame, is when it becomes open source.

[Joshua822]

But an ultimate way of protecting an fangame, is when it becomes open source.

I'm sorry to say it, but as much as I love open source software this is not really true.

You can sell software published under an open source license. For example, as long as you give the changes you made back to the community (or if you don't make any changes, if you don't claim that you wrote the code), you can sell GPL'd software. This is why Canonical can for example sell Ubuntu CD's.

So the sole fact that it is open source is not good enough. It has to be open source and a point has to be added to the licensing to prevent people from selling the program.

[PowerPatrick]

My point was, if it's open source, no one can shut it down, and it would be much harder to prevent it from being distributed. And even if that would be the case, members could make their own fork of the games and try the whole thing again. Ubisoft can't sue a community of 1336 (close to 1337, lol) members. But if it was licensed under BSD, Ubisoft itself would be able to advantage of this, even if the implemented features following gets modified and closed sourced.

[Ephriokko]

You can count on me for that too

And let's all relax about if this game can get released or not. At least seven years are still needed to finish this game, and no one can tell what will happen over seven yeras. So let's just wait and see. It's an ambitious plan, but you never know what Ubisoft will think then about releasing this game. Like we Dutchies say: "een nee heb je, een ja kun je krijgen"

Although, Rayfan, the people here do have a point. You can try to get this game released, but there's a very good chance that Ubisoft's answer will be no. Manufacturing the game, publishing the game in stores and marketing it well costs a lot of money, and if Ubisoft sees no market for the game and doesn't find investors for it, they will say no no matter how much you beg them to release your game.

So, in the case Ubisoft says no, please, don't be shut down. It doesn't have anything to do with you, just with the money needed

I think she already said that the seven-year hiatus is a dead idea now. XD




In other news... oh wow! More legal issue debates. I'm gonna sit this one out since I'm actually not entirely savvy with how businesses work. But I can generally understand what you guys are talking about... heh. =P

Oy, Rayfan... these guys have some good points, whatever you think it wouldn't hurt to take a look through 'em all. The more you know...

[PluMGMK]

No direct copyrighted material is being used, except for the Rayman 3 model, which has been replaced with something made from scratch.

No, a modified Rayman M model is being used.

[PowerPatrick]

No, a modified Rayman M model is being used.

When count that too.
But RayFan has made his own 3D models at least.

[Joshua822]

@PowerPatrick: ah, I see what you mean, you're completely right

But is your 3D-model of Rayman really a modified version of the Rayman M model Rayfan? If the answer is yes, you'd probably better make a new one from scratch, since you can't modify a copyrighted work without the permission of the copyright owner.

See point two here: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/ ... -000-.html

Yeah, copyright sucks