Lore thread

[spiraldoor]

If Razoff can be a Teensie, then Begoniax can be a Knaaren.

[Julia_Patti]

Maybe. Or something close to them...

[iHeckler9]

If Razoff can be a Teensie, then Begoniax can be a Knaaren.

Unless you come up with points to back this statement up, I'm denying it.

[spiraldoor]

If Razoff can be a Teensie, then Begoniax can be a Knaaren.

Unless you come up with points to back this statement up, I'm denying it.

Begoniax resembles a Knaaren. That is evidence enough to put it forward as a possibility.

[iHeckler9]

If Razoff can be a Teensie, then Begoniax can be a Knaaren.

Unless you come up with points to back this statement up, I'm denying it.

Begoniax resembles a Knaaren.

Barely.

That is evidence enough to put it forward as a possibility.

It's a fairly poor possibility.

[Haruka]

Speaking about Begóniax, I can't remember where I read this, and if this was an official information about Begóniax... I guess I won't say it, because I'm not sure if I read it from an official source.

[spiraldoor]

Begoniax resembles a Knaaren.

Barely.

You don’t see it? The resemblance between them seems relatively strong to me. She has their extremely wide mouth and blackish-grey skin. What other distinguishable and defining characteristics do the Knaaren have that Begoniax lacks? What makes you so certain that she is not one of them?

That is evidence enough to put it forward as a possibility.

It's a fairly poor possibility.

You are not in a position to pass judgement on my ideas. I have already given this more thought than you ever will. I think that Begoniax may be a Knaaren.

[iHeckler9]

Begoniax resembles a Knaaren.

Barely.

You don’t see it? The resemblance between them seems relatively strong to me. She has their extremely wide mouth and blackish-grey skin. What other distinguishable and defining characteristics do the Knaaren have that Begoniax lacks? What makes you so certain that she is not one of them?

That is evidence enough to put it forward as a possibility.

It's a fairly poor possibility.

You are not in a position to pass judgement on my ideas. I have already given this more thought than you ever will. I think that Begoniax may be a Knaaren.

1: The thought of Begoniax being a Knaaren is absurd, in my opinion. Why would a Knaaren live in the Bog of Murk? I read somewhere that they hate the sunlight and it can't be dark in the bog forever.
2: Where is Begoniax' hood? What weapons do the Knaaren have (apart from their fists)? Begoniax wears clothes. Knaaren don't have hair.

[Jewish Candy]

I'm probably the only one who figured she was (originally at least) some kind of fairy, since they are the only superficially near-human beings in Rayman's world. I'm loathe to suggest Begoniax being a Ludiv, Flying Pixie, Ly-alike etc., but the nymphs/Betilla and Tily seem to resemble her is a lot of ways. The rounder ears, the human-like stature and features - the only thing missing is the beauty.
I can't remember where I read this, which is a shame, but I'm pretty sure that she kept making beauty potions that kept failing, and each attempt made her uglier and crazier; this would explain her short stature, bulbous eyes and grey, mottled skin. Though I'm sure age has something to do with all this, too. I don't know, I suppose I just figured that once upon a time she was a rather average redhead who made some stupid lifestyle decisions. Maybe she IS actually Betilla. Tragic, in a way...

That said, Spiral's idea of her being a Knaaren hold water well, as we've never seen any Knaaren females - the males may be the gi...gantic... *pant* warrior barbarian types, and the ladies slightly stouter and shorter, ideal for baby-making!

[iHeckler9]

I don't know, I suppose I just figured that once upon a time she was a rather average redhead who made some stupid lifestyle decisions. Maybe she IS actually Betilla. Tragic, in a way...

If that were true I'd be falling over laughing now.

[Haruka]

I can't remember where I read this, which is a shame, but I'm pretty sure that she kept making beauty potions that kept failing, and each attempt made her uglier and crazier; this would explain her short stature, bulbous eyes and grey, mottled skin.

That was what I wanted to say on my previous post. But sadly I cannot also remember where I read that, and if that was read from an official source.

[spiraldoor]

1: The thought of Begoniax being a Knaaren is absurd, in my opinion. Why would a Knaaren live in the Bog of Murk? I read somewhere that they hate the sunlight and it can't be dark in the bog forever.

Your opinion is taken as a given and does not matter. Only the evidence that you can bring to the discussion is relevant. I do not think it ‘absurd’ that Begoniax is a Knaaren. Why would a Knaaren live in the Bog of Murk? Why not? They entire species does not need to be concentrated into one cave system. As to why Begoniax might live apart from the others, here’s three possibilities straight off the top of my head: Begoniax is an outcast among the Knaaren because of her witchery; female Knaaren are not allowed to live with the all-male Knaaren tribe in the tunnels; or Begoniax chose to live apart from the others for reasons of her own. All perfectly plausible explanations. I am aware that Knaaren cannot stand sunlight, but I see no relevance to this discussion; for all we know, she may never leave her house during the daytime. If for some reason she does wish to leave her house while the sun is shining, she could use her magic mirror to teleport to wherever it is she wishes to go. We’ve already seen it send people to a large cauldron in a deep part of the bog, as well as to Razoff’s dungeon.

2: Where is Begoniax' hood? What weapons do the Knaaren have (apart from their fists)? Begoniax wears clothes. Knaaren don't have hair.

Where is Begoniax’s hood? I don’t know if you noticed this, but she’s actually wearing a massive upside-down cauldron on her head, which would presumably serve the same purpose as a hood. Who says they all have to wear hoods, anyway? Gumsi wears an oversized crown and he’s a Knaaren. I don’t know why you think the lack of weapons amongst Knaaren suggests that Begoniax is not one; Reflux wields a magic staff, and Gumsi and Reflux both wield the Sceptre of the Leptys at different points during the game. Begoniax’s trident-like fork may serve a similar talismanic purpose (she is a witch, after all), or it may simply be a cooking implement. Neither possibility implies that she is or is not a Knaaren. I’m aware that Begoniax wears clothes. So do Knaaren. What precisely is your point? And I am interested by your assertion that Knaaren do not have hair; have you ever seen the top of a Knaaren’s head? I don’t think so. Besides, male Knaaren may have shaved heads, or may not grow hair at all. Males and females of the same species are often different. It’s called sexual dimorphism.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to contemplate the possibility of a Teensie/Knaaren hybrid being born from the union of Razoff and Begoniax.

[spiraldoor]

I can't remember where I read this, which is a shame, but I'm pretty sure that she kept making beauty potions that kept failing, and each attempt made her uglier and crazier; this would explain her short stature, bulbous eyes and grey, mottled skin.

Thanks for mentioning that stuff; I’d entirely forgotten about it. Yes, it is official. It come from the same 2003 (or was it 2002?) press release as the information about Razoff, the Shoedsackovskaïa family, the Nookins, the Sylkins, the Tufkins, the Griskins, the Great Spirit Palmito and so on.

Here is the original source:

Begoniax is a wily witch bent on brewing the ultimate beauty potion. Problem is, every potion she makes only makes her more hideous and insane with each failure. Those wandering into Begoniax's domain best beware this crazed conjurer's wicked wiles.

This most likely means she’s not a Knaaren, though it is still inconclusive as to what exactly she was before she began experimenting on herself. Sure is one hell of a lorey press release to keep us talking about it even seven years later. I sure hope Rayman Origins gets some similar releases... which reminds me, UbiArt really need to update their blog. This blankness makes me feel like we’re back in 2007 or something, when the next Rayman game seemed an eternity away.

[Haruka]

Oh yes, it was in there that I read. I was fearing that my memory about that detail of Begóniax was from a fake source.

... Hold on, that should be putted in RayWiki!

[iHeckler9]

1: The thought of Begoniax being a Knaaren is absurd, in my opinion. Why would a Knaaren live in the Bog of Murk? I read somewhere that they hate the sunlight and it can't be dark in the bog forever.

Your opinion is taken as a given and does not matter. Only the evidence that you can bring to the discussion is relevant. I do not think it ‘absurd’ that Begoniax is a Knaaren. Why would a Knaaren live in the Bog of Murk? Why not? They entire species does not need to be concentrated into one cave system. As to why Begoniax might live apart from the others, here’s three possibilities straight off the top of my head: Begoniax is an outcast among the Knaaren because of her witchery; female Knaaren are not allowed to live with the all-male Knaaren tribe in the tunnels; or Begoniax chose to live apart from the others for reasons of her own. All perfectly plausible explanations. I am aware that Knaaren cannot stand sunlight, but I see no relevance to this discussion; for all we know, she may never leave her house during the daytime. If for some reason she does wish to leave her house while the sun is shining, she could use her magic mirror to teleport to wherever it is she wishes to go. We’ve already seen it send people to a large cauldron in a deep part of the bog, as well as to Razoff’s dungeon.

2: Where is Begoniax' hood? What weapons do the Knaaren have (apart from their fists)? Begoniax wears clothes. Knaaren don't have hair.

Where is Begoniax’s hood? I don’t know if you noticed this, but she’s actually wearing a massive upside-down cauldron on her head, which would presumably serve the same purpose as a hood. Who says they all have to wear hoods, anyway? Gumsi wears an oversized crown and he’s a Knaaren. I don’t know why you think the lack of weapons amongst Knaaren suggests that Begoniax is not one; Reflux wields a magic staff, and Gumsi and Reflux both wield the Sceptre of the Leptys at different points during the game. Begoniax’s trident-like fork may serve a similar talismanic purpose (she is a witch, after all), or it may simply be a cooking implement. Neither possibility implies that she is or is not a Knaaren. I’m aware that Begoniax wears clothes. So do Knaaren. What precisely is your point? And I am interested by your assertion that Knaaren do not have hair; have you ever seen the top of a Knaaren’s head? I don’t think so. Besides, male Knaaren may have shaved heads, or may not grow hair at all. Males and females of the same species are often different. It’s called sexual dimorphism.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to contemplate the possibility of a Teensie/Knaaren hybrid being born from the union of Razoff and Begoniax.

TL;DR.

This most likely means she’s not a Knaaren.

Yes, but you've never seen a Knaaren take off its hood. Begoniax does so at the end of TBOM. Gumsi wears a crown because he's a KING. Gumsi has royal powers, so I suppose the sceptre is like the crown jewels for him. Reflux stole the sceptre and it isn't really a weapon, just an implement of divine power. You've never seen a Knaaren take off its hood, where Begoniax' clothes are hanging on the washing line. Could the Knaaren have differently-coloured skin from living in the caves? Have you ever seen a Knaaren's hair? Show me a picture, then. One of the Knaaren mentions having a sore throat and asks for some cough medicine, so presumably there's no water in the caves. This raises the possibility that Knaaren don't like water.

I await your reply.

[Haruka]

iHeckler, have you heard about the word that is called "possibility"?

The dictionary says detaily what it means.

Taking conclusions is one thing, and taking possibilities is another thing.

[spiraldoor]

TL;DR.

I pity you ADHD-afflicted children. So unfortunate.

Yes, but you've never seen a Knaaren take off its hood. Begoniax does so at the end of TBOM. Gumsi wears a crown because he's a KING. Gumsi has royal powers, so I suppose the sceptre is like the crown jewels for him. Reflux stole the sceptre and it isn't really a weapon, just an implement of divine power. You've never seen a Knaaren take off its hood, where Begoniax' clothes are hanging on the washing line. Could the Knaaren have differently-coloured skin from living in the caves? Have you ever seen a Knaaren's hair? Show me a picture, then. One of the Knaaren mentions having a sore throat and asks for some cough medicine, so presumably there's no water in the caves. This raises the possibility that Knaaren don't like water.

I await your reply.

I am aware that no Knaaren are seen removing their hoods in Rayman 3 (barring Reflux, who is not precisely a Knaaren at that point). You seem to be leaping to conclusions about what Knaaren can and cannot do. Just because we saw no Knaaren removing their hoods does not mean that no Knaaren can ever remove their hoods; using this assumption as evidence that Begoniax is not a Knaaren is frankly ridiculous. Are you suggesting that Knaaren are born with their clothes on, and that the presence of knickers on Begoniax's washing line proves that she is not a Knaaren? I am aware that Gumsi is a king, but the Sceptre is not the equivalent of ‘the crown jewels for him’: the Sceptre is the equivalent of a sceptre. Sceptres are real. Real kings carry them. They are symbols of office. I don’t see what any of this has to do with what species Begoniax belongs to; nor do I see any real relevance to the fact that Gumsi wears a crown and has ‘royal powers’, whatever that may mean. The Sceptre of the Leptys definitely serves as a weapon; if it can fire balls of energy that can kill your enemies, it’s a weapon. I am perplexed that you would enquire as to whether living underground may cause Knaaren’s skin colour to change. Change from what into what? Is this meant to have something to do with Begoniax? In any case, living underground and shunning the light of the sun is more likely to result in the species’s adaptation to albinism than any other skin colour. Think Morlocks. Hopefully this information will fulfil whatever purpose you wanted it for. I am amused by the line ‘Have you ever seen a Knaaren's hair? Show me a picture, then’. Obviously I never claimed that Knaaren definitely had hair or made any suggestion that I possessed a picture proving that they did. I merely pointed out the indisputible fact that no Knaaren is ever seen without his hood on, and therefore your declaration of Knaaren not having hair as proof that Begoniax is not a Knaaren is clearly spurious. I am aware that one Knaaren says that he has a sore throat and asks another if he has any cough syrup, but how on earth does this indicate that there is no water in the Tunnels of the Knaaren? That makes absolutely no sense at all. Are you saying that water is a cure for a sore throat? That’s ridiculous. And even if there was no water within the caves, that in no way implies that ‘Knaaren don’t like water’. Just because a creature’s habitat lacks a substance does not mean that the creature hates that substance. Their aversion to sunlight is more than enough of a reason for them to live in the caves. I doubt that even the creatures of Rayman’s world would evolve in an environment where there is no water for them to drink. To claim this as a reason why a Knaaren would never live in the Bog of Murk is incredibly illogical and tenuous and I can’t believe that you expected me to take it as a serious possibility. Just stop this. I have already decided that Begoniax is unlikely to be a Knaaren because her official biography implies that she was relatively attractive or inoffensive-looking before she started mucking about with beauty potions. You are only making a fool of yourself.

[Haruka]

I know this is nothing related but I have a question for you Spiral: have you ever played Rayman Designer?

[spiraldoor]

I downloaded Rayman Designer and played around with it a year or two ago. Then my laptop died and I never bothered re-downloading it.

I hope it gets released in a more stable form at some point. GoG.com would be good.

[Haruka]

I downloaded Rayman Designer and played around with it a year or two ago. Then my laptop died and I never bothered re-downloading it.

I hope it gets released in a more stable form at some point. GoG.com would be good.

Unless you would like me to share you a link of my Rayman Collector. I'm doing videos of Rayman Designer's official levels by the way.