Religion – your views

[Adsolution]

faith in a God that has no proof of existence other than a book that could have been written by any well-meaning nut is nothing but blind faith which leads nowhere and to no source of true knowledge.

No proof, you say. Lack of words here, but if my life would just follow scientifc probability, I believe some chains of events happening to me would be actually impossible. There are two standpoints here, you would say my understanding of science is imperfect, I would say that there is some possibility of external stuff happening. Wait, I would actually say both standpoints are true.

What chains of events might there be? The reason why chains of "impossible" events happen is because of the way living beings are. Some think alike and may do coincidental things, and some things that may happen to you alone could be because of your thought process and reflex in general.

[stan423321]

Can't invoke such a series right now, but I can clearly see many categories of them and some are really... hard to explain, while others fit your views.

[Adsolution]

I'm just replying to something said in the 7 deadly sins topic, since they said to discuss it here:

That's all I'll say, since I think catholics are the scum of the earth.

What a fucking stupid thing to say. Even I find this statement offensive, and that’s saying a lot.

Same here. I went to a Catholic school for three years (just finished actually) because it was the cheapest upper private school we had access to. Even though I hated the school, most of the people were quite nice and (most) of the Religion teachers there were some of the best people I've met.

Of course there's always one corrupt fellow that spent a whole class lecturing on how evil homosexuals are, then I stand up and get into a raged argument with him, I get suspended for two days, come back, tel them what happened, they apologize and force-retire the old corrupt teacher, but that's besides the point.

[stan423321]

Evil, you say? Even I find most of them simply a bit wrong. And despite "Poland as a homofobic country" I don't remember anyone raging over homosexuals unless they either paraded or wanted to adopt children.

[Adsolution]

Evil, you say? Even I find most of them simply a bit wrong. And despite "Poland as a homofobic country" I don't remember anyone raging over homosexuals unless they either paraded or wanted to adopt children.

Ehm, I wasn't saying anyone was evil, that's what the teacher was saying. I'm well known to be the last person on this entire forum to say homosexuals are evil.

[stan423321]

No. I was surprised teacher in Catholic school found homosexuals strictly evil.

[spiraldoor]

This is a response to a post in the Seven Deadly Sins thread.

12 - 2 = 10 NOT 8.
Catholics make statues and they swear, so they needed to erase 2 commandments.
''You should not make idols, you should not take the name of your Lord in vain''
So, 10 - 2 = 8.
8 is obviously not 10, people would notice.
So, they added 2 more commandments, duplicates, which I already pointed out.

This shows that catholics differ from other christians alot, they can't even be called christians, sometimes.
They abuse the name of God, and they make ''idols''.
Thus, they abuse 2 commandments, and they support other catholics in doing the very same.

I am familiar with basic arithmetics, thank you. I was simply confused by your insistence that coveting your neighbour’s wife equals commiting adultery and coveting your neighbour’s good equals committing theft; this would seem to reduce the traditional Ten Commandments to eight (which I thought was the point you were trying to make). Until now I had never heard of the idea that there were twelve. I certainly don’t subscribe to the notion that the Catholics ‘deleted’ two of them for some abstract reason, as the ‘additional’ two can still be found (albeit merged with related ones) in Catholic teachings. Your theory that the way in which the commandments are laid out by different branches of Christianity means that Catholics are not Christians is positively silly; try adding your ‘discoveries’ to the Catholic page on Wikipedia and see how long they last! You say that Catholics ‘abuse the name of God’ and ‘make idols’; your first point is an obvious and unfair generalisation, while your second is a well-known criticism often levelled at them by Protestants, but if you really think that praying in front of crucifixes or statues means that they are ‘the scum of the earth’, you are absolutely daft.

[Adsolution]

No. I was surprised teacher in Catholic school found homosexuals strictly evil.

Ah. But yep, same here of course. I'll recall snippets:

"Homosexuals are pure evil."
"They sin every day in everything that they do."
"If I come across any student that is homosexual, I won't pass this course for that person until I myself have set them straight."
""Homosexuals deserve to be put in concentration camps, but lucky for them I'm here to not letting their souls burn by setting them straight."

EDIT:

After typing that I just realized what an asshole he was.

[Tobbe]

What annoys me more are the even more hard-core religious folk that, after explaining to my youth group (that takes place in a church) pastor that I'm transgendered and list to him all the evidence that proves it's a hormone based brain occurrence before birth and that the structure is actually different, his response was that "science lies to us."

Science doesn't lie to us. That's bullshit. There are hypotheses which are wrong, either fully or partially, but the process of science ensures that A big problem in our society is that people don't understand science, and a lot of people are skeptical of scientists because of this. I believe there is a need to raise the status of scientists in the society. Children should learn more about science even from the lowest levels of the school system. They should learn of the achievements science has accomplished, of course, but more importantly they should learn in detail about the scientific process, and be made very aware that this is the process that allows the human race to move forward.

[Adsolution]

What annoys me more are the even more hard-core religious folk that, after explaining to my youth group (that takes place in a church) pastor that I'm transgendered and list to him all the evidence that proves it's a hormone based brain occurrence before birth and that the structure is actually different, his response was that "science lies to us."

Science doesn't lie to us. That's bullshit. There are hypotheses which are wrong, either fully or partially, but the process of science ensures that A big problem in our society is that people don't understand science, and a lot of people are skeptical of scientists because of this. I believe there is a need to raise the status of scientists in the society. Children should learn more about science even from the lowest levels of the school system. They should learn of the achievements science has accomplished, of course, but more importantly they should learn in detail about the scientific process, and be made very aware that this is the process that allows the human race to move forward.

Absolutely. I also believe that Churches should be replaced with walk-in science and morality education centres funded by the government that teach you how to be yourself instead of praising a lord.

[Rsandee]

This is a response to a post in the Seven Deadly Sins thread.

12 - 2 = 10 NOT 8.
Catholics make statues and they swear, so they needed to erase 2 commandments.
''You should not make idols, you should not take the name of your Lord in vain''
So, 10 - 2 = 8.
8 is obviously not 10, people would notice.
So, they added 2 more commandments, duplicates, which I already pointed out.

This shows that catholics differ from other christians alot, they can't even be called christians, sometimes.
They abuse the name of God, and they make ''idols''.
Thus, they abuse 2 commandments, and they support other catholics in doing the very same.

I am familiar with basic arithmetics, thank you. I was simply confused by your insistence that coveting your neighbour’s wife equals commiting adultery and coveting your neighbour’s good equals committing theft; this would seem to reduce the traditional Ten Commandments to eight (which I thought was the point you were trying to make). Until now I had never heard of the idea that there were twelve. I certainly don’t subscribe to the notion that the Catholics ‘deleted’ two of them for some abstract reason, as the ‘additional’ two can still be found (albeit merged with related ones) in Catholic teachings. Your theory that the way in which the commandments are laid out by different branches of Christianity means that Catholics are not Christians is positively silly; try adding your ‘discoveries’ to the Catholic page on Wikipedia and see how long they last! You say that Catholics ‘abuse the name of God’ and ‘make idols’; your first point is an obvious and unfair generalisation, while your second is a well-known criticism often levelled at them by Protestants, but if you really think that praying in front of crucifixes or statues means that they are ‘the scum of the earth’, you are absolutely daft.

I was (SERIOUSLY) pissed off when I said they were scum of the earth, what I actually meant is that the higher ranked catholics are scum. (like the pope, again)
Ofcourse I won't add my theories on wikipedia, any idiot can edit it, so any idiot can erase it.
I believe in conspiracies, and I believe the catholic church plays a big part in it.
Ofcourse, these thoughts seem idiot and silly to you, but after a long time of thinking and doing my research; it actually makes sense to me.

But fine, you guys are interested in science.
For some reason, I feel better when I think there is a God; so I'm not interested in it.

Also, I wasn't in the best mood when I wrote my first wall of shit, and all these ''that's bullshit'' reactions only made it worse.\

[stan423321]

Absolutely. I also believe that Churches should be replaced with walk-in science and morality education centres funded by the government that teach you how to be yourself instead of praising a lord.

I suppose you are a communist, then, property damage allowed? Churches here in Poland and, I suppose, elsewhere are owned by... well, Churches (pun not intended), so you would basically have to take over them if you would like to replace them. It would be different in Turkey, I suppose, but still, they have mosques, so I suppose we are not talking about Turkey.

[Adsolution]

Absolutely. I also believe that Churches should be replaced with walk-in science and morality education centres funded by the government that teach you how to be yourself instead of praising a lord.

I suppose you are a communist, then, property damage allowed? Churches here in Poland and, I suppose, elsewhere are owned by... well, Churches (pun not intended), so you would basically have to take over them if you would like to replace them. It would be different in Turkey, I suppose, but still, they have mosques, so I suppose we are not talking about Turkey.

I'm more of a Socialist. Sort of a cross between Communism and Capitalism. But that's a dream of something too perfect that we know will never happen due to human indecency.

And I didn't mean to take over the Church, I meant that I thought it would be nice if instead of Churches....

Sorry I didn't word it correctly at first.

[spiraldoor]

Absolutely. I also believe that Churches should be replaced with walk-in science and morality education centres funded by the government that teach you how to be yourself instead of praising a lord.

Don’t we already have those? What you’re suggesting sounds like a school or university (a government-funded place where people are educated about science?), only with an additional emphasis on morality and a ‘walk-in’ aspect (does that mean they’re free? Might be a nightmare to arrange). In any case, I don’t think such non-essential, non-profit facilities should be run on public funds – and that certainly includes churches and other religious installations. If anyone out there decides to take the initiative and set up some ‘morality schools’, that’s perfectly fine, but don’t expect us to pay for them.

[stan423321]

And I didn't mean to take over the Church, I meant that I thought it would be nice if instead of Churches....
Sorry I didn't word it correctly at first.

Ok, ok, I just happen to be in Poland, which happens to be a long neighbour of USSR, where the churches were actually replaced with cinemas, dancing halls... literally - the "unnecessary" stuff was removed from the building, and look, USSR has created one more cinema!

[Adsolution]

Absolutely. I also believe that Churches should be replaced with walk-in science and morality education centres funded by the government that teach you how to be yourself instead of praising a lord.

Don’t we already have those? What you’re suggesting sounds like a school or university (a government-funded place where people are educated about science?), only with an additional emphasis on morality and a ‘walk-in’ aspect (does that mean they’re free? Might be a nightmare to arrange). In any case, I don’t think such non-essential, non-profit facilities should be run on public funds – and that certainly includes churches and other religious installations. If anyone out there decides to take the initiative and set up some ‘morality schools’, that’s perfectly fine, but don’t expect us to pay for them.

Eh, good point. I think the Catholic Churches should just leave then. They aren't really getting us anywhere at all. The only thing they're doing is keeping weak-minded people alive and showing people who want to do good how to do good with blind faith. By morality centre, I mean take out all the mistaken literal meanings intended to be metaphors (that's how I see it) and instead of preaching to God, you preach to yourself intently. I believe that the bible was originally meant to be a book of good morals (well the morals back then) and that praying to God for an answer really is looking inside yourself to find the answer. God I believe is a metaphor for all the values and morals we have. It works perfectly if you think about it in that context.

@Stan:
Huh, that's interesting actually. I like.

[Rsandee]

And suddenly, a mix with socialists and atheists.
And I thought it couldn't get any worse.

Like, if I keep saying that God is real, I get an army of 5 atheists after me.
And when an atheists practically says that churches shouldn't exist, it's accepted.
So that ''we can be ourselves''.
What a nice world we live in.

Since I found it impossible to place my mind in words, I found a pic which does it for me.

[Adsolution]

You took my statement kind of black-and-white. Also believe it or not that pic actually is just an interpretation. Some people would be perfectly happy with the lifestyle in that pic, while others would want to do more. One of the reasons I don't like that pic at all actually is that it looks like a picture created purely for the sake of being rebellious. It states that law-obeying conformity is bad, which in action it isn't.

It's like the famous tale:

Two brothers lived in a small village. One took up business in school and formed a multi-million dollar corporation, while the other never went to college and instead spent a life time making minimum wage, fishing as a hobby and for money. When they both retired and met up at home, the poor brother asked the rich brother "how did you enjoy your fame?" He replied, "My brother, my team has brought fortune to others and the world of technology, I did what I love, and I wouldn't change it for anything in the world." In return, he asks his poor brother, "And how did you enjoy your life?" And he replies "I fished food for my family, and I spent my life doing what I love, and I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world."

Both had lived their lives doing what they love, regardless if it changes the world or not. Now please don't do what most people do and say "Dur what if your hobby was killing people? Would that be good?!1?" Since I mean there's nothing wrong with doing what you love as long as it doesn't put others at jeopardy.

[stan423321]

Eh, good point. I think the Catholic Churches should just leave then. They aren't really getting us anywhere at all. The only thing they're doing is keeping weak-minded people alive and showing people who want to do good how to do good with blind faith.

1. Weak minded people make weak money
2. Catholic church does consume quite a lot of money
3. ...?
And no, 4 is not starting with P.

[Hunchman801]

Replying to Rsandee's post in the Seven Deadly Sins topic, even though Spiral already did a great job answering his detestable mixture of nonsense and hatred speech here.

There are 10 simple commandments, Catholics ignored some of them, REMOVED the one with statues, and ADDED 1 more. (they just repeated another commandment ''You shall not steal, You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, You shall not covet you neighbor's goods'')

I don't even know where you got that bullshit from, the order and number of the commandments is the same in the Catholic and Lutheran churches, while in other Protestant churches the only difference is the splitting of the first one into two and the merging of the last two.

Catholics are simply NOT (real) christians.
Hell, I'd rather even go as far as saying I'd rather be a muslim than a catholic.

What are you trying to achieve by insulting Catholics simply because they don't share your views on Christianity? The only thing you did is prove your appalling narrow-mindedness.

Catholics spawned the idea of hell, the Bible doesn't even mention it.

Hell was already present in the Greek mythology, and also exists in most forms of Protestantism, albeit in various forms, so I don't see how Catholics can be held responsible for creating this concept.

Also, the word ''Christian'' means that you follow Jesus Christ.
Who do catholics follow?

Jesus Christ, who happens to be God in their case.

They walk around with the ''so called holy'' cross, which has nothing to do with Christ himself, it's the murder weapon.

Has it never occurred to you that religious wars were not the sole result of millions of evil Catholics deciding to kill innocents for the sake of it? I woud love to know which conflicts you are referring to by the way.

That's all I'll say, since I think catholics are the scum of the earth. (yh... I don't care if that offends someone)

Now that's just stupidly offensive, once again what are you trying to achieve if it's not to show everyone the irrationality of the your hatred towards Catholics?

Do I have to remind you of the french Iconoclasm?

How is that relevant to our discussion?

Also, since the topic already has had time to move to the subject of God's existence, let me remind you guys that there is as of today absolutely no way to prove or disprove God's existence and that there is therefore no default position on the subject: both atheism and religion are beliefs.