Religion – your views

[Keane]

It's easy to notice how fake the church is. Mormons in America are being send to other countries (They prefer poor ones, they've got nothing to loose) and ask people to join their religion. What? If i get an American teenager at my door, i'd give him a good piece of atheism.


Everybody gives 10% of their monthly income to the church. They're greedy too, not just the Pope.

[Adsolution]

It's easy to notice how fake the church is. Mormons in America are being send to other countries (They prefer poor ones, they've got nothing to loose) and ask people to join their religion. What? If i get an American teenager at my door, i'd give him a good piece of atheism.


Everybody gives 10% of their monthly income to the church. They're greedy too, not just the Pope.

Holy crap, 10%? That's ridiculous. Really?

[DandyGuy]

Theres so many churches if the dark ages come back will be ready

[Tobbe]

Also, since the topic already has had time to move to the subject of God's existence, let me remind you guys that there is as of today absolutely no way to prove or disprove God's existence and that there is therefore no default position on the subject: both atheism and religion are beliefs.

I disagree. About the default position that is, not the prove and disprove thing. In my opinion, you should be skeptical and don't go around believing in things there is no evidence for, such as god's existance. Therefore, Atheism, or at least agnosticism, should be the default position of any rational person. But this would be a discussion of philosophy, a field of study which has the extremely annoying property of having no definitely correct answers.

[stan423321]

It's easy to notice how fake the church is. Mormons in America are being send to other countries (They prefer poor ones, they've got nothing to loose) and ask people to join their religion. What? If i get an American teenager at my door, i'd give him a good piece of atheism.


Everybody gives 10% of their monthly income to the church. They're greedy too, not just the Pope.

This is not the case in Poland when taking "Pope" into account (no pun intended). Everybody may technically redirect 1% of PIT to a Catholic Church maintained organisation, however most of its income is either voluntary or based on stuff like books.

[spiraldoor]

I was (SERIOUSLY) pissed off when I said they were scum of the earth, what I actually meant is that the higher ranked catholics are scum. (like the pope, again)

Also, I wasn't in the best mood when I wrote my first wall of shit, and all these ''that's bullshit'' reactions only made it worse.\

So by your logic, I could declare that Jews are the scum of the earth, and after my statement had been condemned by the community I could ‘reveal’ that I was in a ‘bad mood’, thus making everything okay again? Sorry, I don’t buy that. There is no way someone in their right mind would say such things, bad mood or not. Now that you have retconned your statement so that it is targeted towards the pope and his cardinals, it has become much less offensive, though it is still a colossal generalisation. These are people who have devoted their lives to doing what they think is right, and (for the most part) have not harmed anyone in doing so – I would say that they are foolish to spend their lives in the clergy, but I would not condemn them as people for their choices.

Ofcourse I won't add my theories on wikipedia, any idiot can edit it, so any idiot can erase it.

Are you seriously suggesting that only an idiot would dispute your ‘Catholics are not Christians’ theory? Why don’t you try sending it to some historians of religion and see what they make of it? In your delusion you have attached far too much importance to your own ideas.

I believe in conspiracies, and I believe the catholic church plays a big part in it.

Wikipedia is under the thumb of the Vatican. Of course.

Ofcourse, these thoughts seem idiot and silly to you, but after a long time of thinking and doing my research; it actually makes sense to me.

Cool story, bro! What age are you – fourteen? Stop deluding yourself with these grand ideas that you – and only you! – have uncovered an ancient conspiracy. You’ve been reading too much Da Vinci Code. Catholics and Protestants are both Christians, and the differences between the two branches are more superficial than you would care to admit.

But fine, you guys are interested in science.

If there were no people in the world with an interest in science, you would not find the world to your liking.

For some reason, I feel better when I think there is a God; so I'm not interested in it.

I don’t like the feeling that there is an all-powerful, all-seeing father looking down on me and judging me according to whether I follow a set of rules (some of which are quite silly) from an ancient book of dubious origin. However, I would feel better believing that there is some sort of paradise where all my dead friends and relatives are waiting for me when I die, but unfortunately the universe is not governed by what I like or dislike, and our great preferences for the existence of God do not mean that God actually exists.

[Hunchman801]

I disagree. About the default position that is, not the prove and disprove thing. In my opinion, you should be skeptical and don't go around believing in things there is no evidence for, such as god's existance. Therefore, Atheism, or at least agnosticism, should be the default position of any rational person.

Let's say you have a pizza box in front of you, and you do not know whether it contains a pizza. Why would the default position be to consider there is nothing inside? All you can do is admit you don't know, even though nothing prevents you from believing there is one or not.
This is the exact same thing for God's existence: atheism can in no way be the default position on the subject; agnosticism is, but that's exactly what I said in my last message so I don't really know why you disagree with me.
You mentioned scepticism, which, in philosophy, refers to the attitude of not making truth claims. While this applies to God's existence (Pyrrhonians cannot accept God's existence as a fact), this is also the case for the opposite statement (neither can they accept God's non-existence as a fact). In short, scepticism cannot lead to the refutation of any claim, God's existence included.

But this would be a discussion of philosophy, a field of study which has the extremely annoying property of having no definitely correct answers.

It does actually; just like maths and physics, philosophy has the answer to some questions but not to all of them.

[Tobbe]

I disagree. About the default position that is, not the prove and disprove thing. In my opinion, you should be skeptical and don't go around believing in things there is no evidence for, such as god's existance. Therefore, Atheism, or at least agnosticism, should be the default position of any rational person.

Let's say you have a pizza box in front of you, and you do not know whether it contains a pizza. Why would the default position be to consider there is nothing inside? All you can do is admit you don't know, even though nothing prevents you from believing there is one or not.

But you know that the pizza box at some point of it's existance is highly likely to contain a pizza, so it's therefore not unlikely that there actually is a pizza in the box. But let's say you have a pizza box in front of you, and you ask yourself the question: Is there a CD inside the box? There's no logical reason for a CD to be in the box. In theory, we should all be strictly agnostic about the matter, but in practice we would all be "CD Atheists". I think the same line of reasoning applies to the Universe and god.

[Rsandee]

Spiraldoor, if I want to end a freaking conversation, THEN END IT.
I DO NOT care even a little bit about you idiology, that the world is a boring little hellhole which came out of nowhere.
And now you're trying to say, that I'm an ignorant little kid, who watched too much Da Vinci Code, and can't tell what is real or what is not.

I THOUGHT that this thread was called ''Religion - YOUR VIEWS'', and I just wrote my views.
Yet, you try to wipe every single line out, and try to say that there is in fact, NOTHING waiting for us after earth.
''Wikipedia is under the thumb of the Vatican'', ofcourse not, and when I say that every single idiot can put something on wikipedia; I'm not saying that every single person that goes on wikipedia is an idiot.

Spiraldoor, for fucks sake, I'm one of the only members of RPC who actually believe in God.
And yet, you act just like a christian, you try to convert me into their views.
But, you're trying to convert me into an atheist.
That's exactly what I hate about religion, people trying to put their thoughts into someone else.
And ''walk-in science and morality education centres instead of churches'' is bullshit.
In churches you can also be yourself, even though I rarely go to church.

And ''preaching yourself'', that sounds wrong in every single way.

Tl;dr version:

[spiraldoor]

Spiraldoor, if I want to end a freaking conversation, THEN END IT.
I DO NOT care even a little bit about you idiology, that the world is a boring little hellhole which came out of nowhere.
And now you're trying to say, that I'm an ignorant little kid, who watched too much Da Vinci Code, and can't tell what is real or what is not.

I have no particular wish to end the conversation, and I’m not sure where you got the idea that I did. I don’t care if you care about my ‘idiology’ (is that some sort of pun?); I’m perfectly content to continue dismantling your nonsensical arguments whether it bothers you or not. The world is not ‘boring’ but dynamic and exciting; it is not ‘little’ but unimaginably vast; and it is not a ‘hellhole’ but rather a mixed bag. None of these three criteria have anything whatsoever to do with the existence of God. You seem to favour the declaration of your own disinterest in the matter rather than any attempt to actually support your views. I never claimed that the universe came from ‘nowhere’; I suspect its origins are strange and unknowable, but I doubt any conscious entity was responsible – much less watching over us or telling us what to do. Yes, I’m saying that you’re an ignorant, hateful, sectarian kid with a grossly inflated sense of your own cleverness. You think you are the first one to discover that Catholics are not Christians, but that clearly is not the case; your arguments pertaining to the layout of the Ten Commandments are flimsy and easily disproven, and they certainly wouldn’t hold up under serious scrutiny.

I THOUGHT that this thread was called ''Religion - YOUR VIEWS'', and I just wrote my views.
Yet, you try to wipe every single line out, and try to say that there is in fact, NOTHING waiting for us after earth.
''Wikipedia is under the thumb of the Vatican'', ofcourse not, and when I say that every single idiot can put something on wikipedia; I'm not saying that every single person that goes on wikipedia is an idiot.

You wrote your views and published them online. In doing so you opened yourself up to criticism, which is what I provided. Deal with it! You seem to be placing far too much emphasis on the tangential discussion of God’s existence (what provoked me to respond to your initial post was the hate speech you directed against Catholics). You have already admitted that you only believe in God because it makes you feel better. If you don’t wish people to point out the logical flaws in your beliefs, perhaps you should keep them to yourself. You specifically drew a connection between the ‘conspiracies’ of the Catholic Church and the state of Wikipedia (which I merely brought up as an example of how you could easily put your theories to the test); nonetheless you have entirely missed my point, and still insist that it’s only the ‘idiots’ who would take issue with your theories. All serious historians of religion would surely agree with the angry Protestant kid on the internet who says Catholics aren’t Christians – right? Come on, wake up.

Spiraldoor, for fucks sake, I'm one of the only members of RPC who actually believe in God.
And yet, you act just like a christian, you try to convert me into their views.
But, you're trying to convert me into an atheist.
That's exactly what I hate about religion, people trying to put their thoughts into someone else.

I’m not trying to ‘convert’ you, and I couldn’t care less what you believe; I am simply sharing my views on the subject, which is exactly what you are doing (albeit with less logic and more hateful rhetoric).

[Hunchman801]

But you know that the pizza box at some point of it's existance is highly likely to contain a pizza, so it's therefore not unlikely that there actually is a pizza in the box. But let's say you have a pizza box in front of you, and you ask yourself the question: Is there a CD inside the box? There's no logical reason for a CD to be in the box. In theory, we should all be strictly agnostic about the matter, but in practice we would all be "CD Atheists". I think the same line of reasoning applies to the Universe and god.

I perfectly understand your point, and this is exactly why I am an agnostic atheist: I find it much more likely that there is no God. It can, however, in no way be considered a proof: after all, nothing prevents a prankster from putting Justin Bieber's newest album inside your dear pizza box.

On a related note:

;D

[ikke471]

i 100% agree with Hunch on this one....i think he isn't real but there's no proof he isn't so he could exist....
edit: lol at the pic

[Keane]

Since I found it impossible to place my mind in words, I found a pic which does it for me.

1311423579826.jpg

What? That image is sensless

[Rsandee]

I have no particular wish to end the conversation, and I’m not sure where you got the idea that I did.

This line alone shows why I hate doing these conversations in english.
Seriously, I want to end this conversation, not YOU.
I'm going to ignore bullshit about angry protestant kid, because I'm not even that protestant.
I hate religion, I hate all this bullshit about religion, and I mostly hate people that force me to believe in something.
Seriously, sometimes I can't even enjoy life because of religion.
Yet, if there is something, and I hate thinking that I'm on it's kill list.
So there, just fucking stop.

Jesus christ, you've fucking won, happy?

[Keane]

It's easy to notice how fake the church is. Mormons in America are being send to other countries (They prefer poor ones, they've got nothing to loose) and ask people to join their religion. What? If i get an American teenager at my door, i'd give him a good piece of atheism.


Everybody gives 10% of their monthly income to the church. They're greedy too, not just the Pope.

Holy crap, 10%? That's ridiculous. Really?

It's true. I know a familiy that is quite poor, and even they give their money away.

[Matyuv]

That can't be true. Are you sure it's 10% of the income and not the income tax?

[Keane]

That can't be true. Are you sure it's 10% of the income and not the income tax?

It's 10% income. I know, it's sad.

[Adsolution]

I have no particular wish to end the conversation, and I’m not sure where you got the idea that I did.

This line alone shows why I hate doing these conversations in english.
Seriously, I want to end this conversation, not YOU.
I'm going to ignore bullshit about angry protestant kid, because I'm not even that protestant.
I hate religion, I hate all this bullshit about religion, and I mostly hate people that force me to believe in something.
Seriously, sometimes I can't even enjoy life because of religion.
Yet, if there is something, and I hate thinking that I'm on it's kill list.
So there, just fucking stop.

Jesus christ, you've fucking won, happy?

Yeh, but there's a complete difference between what you're saying and reality. No one's trying to convert you, it's the fact that you've said some pretty bigoted statements toward other religions and some other things that came from entirely inside your head. If you don't want to be afraid of what happens after death, don't argue without logic that your wants are true. every single point Spiraldoor made was correct and perfectly logical and reasonable. Like Spiral already mentioned, you seem to think that the world is a static hellhole and everyone are zombies following a cruel dictatorship. Uh, no! As far as I can tell a crap load of people are happy. Did you even read my "tale" I wrote on the previous page? That proves your illogical theories entirely false.

On a side not, I just started laughing - I know it's silly - over the pizza analogy. I also just feel like pointing out I'm astonished at how good Hunch's English has gotten. I remember even a few years ago it was lacking, but now it's perfect.

[ikke471]

Since I found it impossible to place my mind in words, I found a pic which does it for me.

1311423579826.jpg

What? That image is sensless

it isn't senseless it's a joke about how the dinosaur fossils got in the earth if the earth is just 4000 years old

[spiraldoor]

I have no particular wish to end the conversation, and I’m not sure where you got the idea that I did.

This line alone shows why I hate doing these conversations in english.
Seriously, I want to end this conversation, not YOU.

I never said that you wanted to ‘end me’. Or are you saying that you were projecting your desire to end the conversation onto me earlier? A good way to end a conversation is to stop responding; you can try that if you want, but I have no intention of it.

I'm going to ignore bullshit about angry protestant kid, because I'm not even that protestant.

I don’t see how the apparent half-heartedness of your beliefs invalidates my point: your theory that Catholics are not Christians is devoid of credibility and no one with any knowledge of the matter would take it seriously.

I hate religion, I hate all this bullshit about religion, and I mostly hate people that force me to believe in something.
Seriously, sometimes I can't even enjoy life because of religion.

As you have been assured several times, no one is trying to convert you. I would be quite interested to hear exactly how religion has ruined your life, though.

Yet, if there is something, and I hate thinking that I'm on it's kill list.

I doubt that God (if the off-chance that there is one) is remotely interested in the affairs of humans – certainly not on an individual level. Why on earth would any deity care whether an insignificant mortal believed in their entirely unsupported existence? I think you’d have to perpetrate some wrongdoing on a cosmic level to attract the attention (much less the condemnation) of any divine force which might exist.

So there, just fucking stop.
Jesus christ, you've fucking won, happy?

Sidenote – sore losers who attempt to deprive their opposition of any sort of satisfaction by ending their concession of defeat with some variation of ‘You’ve won, are you fucking happy?’ never fail to irritate me. Not that it has any effect – it’s the bitterness of it that gets on my nerves. Is it an attempt to get me to gloat, and make you look better in doing so? If you think you were wrong, at least say so with some dignity rather than in this sullen and begruding way.