Rayman 3

[darkkitty]

wicked flow is way too hard

[Master]

Harder than Picture City?

[Rulez]

The GBA version is awesome, Darkkitty.

[Haruka]

i have the gba port it stinks

Frustration in a level =/= Quality of a video game

[Adsolution]

i have the gba port it stinks

Frustration in a level =/= Quality of a video game

Lessons to learn, signed sincerely by the Tavaresmaester!

[Raymanarenaps2]

I wonder what it would be like if murphy stayed in the entire game and not just the fairy council part.

[Rulez]

i have the gba port it stinks

Frustration in a level =/= Quality of a video game

Not necessarily true. It tells a lot about game design. If the game design is excellent and it's the player failing, you're right. If the game is Sonic 06 and you get frustrated, you rightfully get frustrated.

[Bzzit]

I wonder what it would be like if murphy stayed in the entire game and not just the fairy council part.

I dont think some people would be able to handle Murphy, Globox and Andre all wisecracking at once. I mean the atmosphere is arguably ruined in certain parts of the game already because of this with only Globox and andre.

[Haruka]

I don't think that just because you are failing in a level the game is bad. Take a look at Super Mario Bros: The Lost Levels for example. Yes, its frustrating but its one of the best games from the 8-bits era (And from the 16-bits with the All-Stars remake). I sincerely prefer tougher but good games instead of cakewalk games that end up boring.

[Keane]

I have to side with Rulez. A lot of games are made hard so they don't have to put more effort into creativity. Take a game like Kirby's Epic Yarn or Wario Land 2. You can't die in both of the games, but in return the games come with excellent graphical appearances, great level design, and it really makes you feel like the company was trying to put work into it. If these games were filled with traps and a million enemies coming from every corner it would ruin it. The reason why the original Rayman holds up as one of my favourite games is because it managed to put these skills together and still remain difficult. If a game is based completely around being hard it only ends being frustrating.

[Haruka]

If a game is based completely around being hard it only ends being frustrating.

I thought everybody were guilting Rayman 1 because of that.

[Shrooblord]

No, it's more the point of excessive difficulty that has no other purpose than to just be frustrating. Some games, good games, are difficult and challenge you. Some are harsh and unforgiving, but leave you with great satisfaction if you manage to beat them - that's the way they addict and they do it well. But then there's some in which the design was executed poorly, which was compensated by ramping up the difficulty to a point where it messes up the whole flow of the game, with the tag of 'it's a challenge to beat', where in reality it's a challenge to keep playing.

[Haruka]

I see your point now. But I really don't find the GBA Rayman 3 a difficult game.

[Master]

What Keane and Shroobie said, I agree with wholeheartedly, I doubt I'd spend around ten years trying to complete Rayman 1 if it were badly designed or half-arsed.
But, I persevered, I played that game over and over, and yet for all my failings in the game, I could still admire it, it still was fun, at the end of the day, and provided me a great gaming experience, one of which was probably one of the reasons why I like gaming to this day.
However, there will be some games, which either out of bad design or shoddy effort, will be terrible and of course, frustrating, the difference being is that the frustration is on the shoddiness of the game, when I screwed up in Rayman 1, I was frustrated at myself, since only I could be blamed for screwing up, however, in a badly designed game, it could be that I screw up due to how the game functioned, and that ruins the experience, and when one beats an unfair segment like that, you don't get the same sense of achievement you'd get if you beat a properly made segment.

[Keane]

If the game is Sonic 06 and you get frustrated, you rightfully get frustrated.

I've bought all the Sonic games released for the Wii purely to laugh at how terrible they were. I wonder if Sega is aware that that's why a lot of people probably bought Sonic 06. :p

[Rulez]

If the game is Sonic 06 and you get frustrated, you rightfully get frustrated.

I've bought all the Sonic games released for the Wii purely to laugh at how terrible they were. I wonder if Sega is aware that that's why a lot of people probably bought Sonic 06. :p

Most of the recent sales are because Game Grumps.

[Haruka]

What a waste of money I must say.

[Rulez]

Not really. One fan bought it solely for the reason of giving it to Arin on MAGFest and him completely destroying it on-camera, then dancing.

[Haruka]

Good to know then!

[Keane]

Aye, that's exactly how I got knowledge of that game.