Are you ashamed by admitting you like Rayman?

[Serza5]

I'm glad you have bright thoughts on Lost Worlds, this is exactly what I mean when I tell people Sonic does have good moments, and I wish some people will give it a shot. I'm hoping you manage to pick up Lost Worlds someday, as it looks very good.

I'm sure that if you went up to someone like Ads and showed them "Good Sonic Moments" they'd be willing to give it a chance. But they're not going to do that by themselves, simply because they're not that interested in the franchise. Yes as mentioned, people do realize that there are good points (Some at least) but unless they think that there could be a Sonic game for them out there that'll get them interested, they're not going to go out of there way to find the good in a series they don't generally care about.

[Rayfist]

I see what you mean, but Ad actually had bright thoughts on Lost Worlds reason why I said 'good moments' are there that I wish other people would look at.

I can understand some people have truly negative views and for the most part that can't be changed, but I think they should at least give it a chance (not counting those who have). I'm referring to the people who don't realize the good points. Like I said I'm fine if someone isn't fond of Sonic, I just dislike when people call the whole series bland, when there have been moments in many Sonic games that aren't bland. I think anyone who is looking for a good Sonic game and a good moment should go for Lost Worlds, unless they don't like Sonic as a whole because of easy motion-sickness.

Ad's thoughts on the graphical style of Sonic 1 I had to say was very well put, and I now understand his point.
So in this case I was not reffering to him, I was referring to the people who don't even put an effort to give it a chance.

[Dark Lum Lord]

To be fair, I think Sega focuses WAY too hard on Sonic.

Seriously, why can't we get a new Jet Set Radio, or how about NiGHTS?
Sega still has a lot of series that need some love that they barely give them, Sonic has been in the spotlight far too much.

I agree. I can understand why Sega does that, because Sonic is their most successful series, but you don't see Nintendo doing that. Then again, while Mario is Nintendo's most well-known and successful series, they have plenty of other games like that and Nintendo in general has more success than Sega. Sega has always kind of been in Nintendo's shadow, but that pretty much went to an extreme by the time the Dreamcast was off the market. It was kind of the same way with Playstation and XBox up until the 360 when things backfired for Sony due to the 360's success and it's basically the opposite now. At least in the US it is, but in many other countries the PS3 has more sales than the 360 so you can assume that the PS3 is more popular in those others countries. That's especially true for Japan where the XBox is as popular as dirt - and if the Japanese don't like it much, that definitely says something considering that they're regarded as the masters of video games by a lot of people.

[Dark Lum Lord]

To be fair, I think Sega focuses WAY too hard on Sonic.

Seriously, why can't we get a new Jet Set Radio, or how about NiGHTS?
Sega still has a lot of series that need some love that they barely give them, Sonic has been in the spotlight far too much.

I agree. I can understand why Sega does that, because Sonic is their most successful series, but you don't see Nintendo doing that. Then again, while Mario is Nintendo's most well-known and successful series, they have plenty of other games like that and Nintendo in general has more success than Sega. Sega has always kind of been in Nintendo's shadow, but that pretty much went to an extreme by the time the Dreamcast was off the market. It was kind of the same way with Playstation and XBox up until the 360 when things backfired for Sony due to the 360's success and it's basically the opposite now. At least in the US it is, but in many other countries the PS3 has more sales than the 360 so you can assume that the PS3 is more popular in those others countries. That's especially true for Japan where the XBox is as popular as dirt - and if the Japanese don't like it much, that definitely says something considering that they're regarded as the masters of video games by a lot of people.

[Paspie]

If only people paid attention to my subsequent posts. *sigh*

[Haruka]

I honestly think far too many people look at the Sonic fanbase and assume Sonic as a whole sucks, I've seen this happen far too much. Sonic 06 was a fucking atrocity as well, and it REALLY damaged the franchise big time, losing a lot of long time fans. However the old Sonic games are great, I'd give those a chance, they're truly what made the genesis a good system, along with Streets of Rage and some other games.

This isn't the problem for me, because the first time I had contact with Sonic, I was 4 years old, the internet was still a big novelty (and an expensive service that wasn't for every wallet, I only had internet from year 2000 on, where the pricings were a little more accessible) and I played the first Sonic game in a Sega Saturn from a distant cousin of the family. So if people think I dislike Sonic just because I had a look to the fandom, it is totally wrong because I played the games way before knowing the fan community on the internet.

I mean it isn't for everyone, not everyone likes it, and Sonic has had many shitty games, I won't lie, but there are some really good games that are appealing, it's very colorful for a genesis game. This is kind of why I'm not reffering to the series as a WHOLE, as considering the major differences Sonic undergoes, including the bad ones, I don't think there is a point. It's like including Earthworm Jim 3D with the rest of the good franchise.

I unfortunately share my same point of view of Crash Bandicoot when I look to Earthworm Jim: I like the gameplay, but I don't worship the franchise itself, since the universe/artistical department aren't my cup of tea.

Take this for instance, a pretty staple shot of Sonic's style:



There's no blend to the hues, it's all so harsh and contrasted. The main thing that actually bugs me about this shot is the very dark blue sky, in fact, I'd almost compare the colour scheme to something thrown together in MS Paint. Whether that's a valid piece of criticism or not doesn't matter (as clearly a lot of people do like it), that's just what I think of when I see it.

but when people say they find the *ENTIRE* Sonic franchise unappealing I wonder why.

There isn't really much to say. Like Rayman, Sonic has a general style to it that it's retained throughout the years, and I don't like that style. No exceptions.

I agree with Adsolution. I really can't define a lot the reasons, I simply dislike the style of Sonic. Period.

To be fair, I think Sega focuses WAY too hard on Sonic.

I think SEGA is a specialist in money wasting, to be honest. So many unecessairly bad Sonic titles that could have been reduced to a smaller number of games with much better quality.

[OCG]

I think SEGA is a specialist in money wasting, to be honest. So many unecessairly bad Sonic titles that could have been reduced to a smaller number of games with much better quality.

That is the point I have to agree with. Here are in my opinion what Sonic Games should only exist:
Sonic 1-3, Sonic CD, Sonic Adventure 1, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, Sonic Unleashed (but with different Story and no Warehog), Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations, Sonic Lost World, Sonic and Sega Racing Transformed

All the other titles are not needed at all.

[Bzzit]

I can't stand the more modern characters in Sonic. Even to the point of having a somewhat unhealthy hatred for them. I do like the classic Sonic games as well as the Adventure series and Heroes, but I wouldn't consider myself a big fan of them. I've never been a big fan of the aesthetics either, though I prefer them more so than Mario. I like Crash Bandicoots style and atmosphere, especially in the Ps1 games. Alot of the aesthetics and characters feel reminiscent to classic Looney tunes cartoons. crash's comical deaths also remind me heavily of Wile Coyote's failed exploits. Crash Bandicoot also boasts the best villains out of any platformer ive played by far in my opinion, they're all so uniquely designed and memorable. Rayman and Spyro will always be my favorites in terms of classic platformers, as they both revolve around fantastical fairy tale like worlds, with imaginative level designs and amazing atmosphere. To me, Marios world and aesthetics feels like the equivalent of a kid spilling a bag of Haribo Star Mix all over the floor whilst watching CBeebies Though I still really enjoy the gameplay a ton.

[Rayfist]

I actually was not referring to you Haruka, I was referring to the people who look at the fandom and judge it entirely, not you, nor Ad, I don't know what made you guys think I was referring to you. :p

I also agree with that last statement Haruka, shouldn't Sega be spending their money on other franchises? They could totally invest in a new Jet Set Radio but choose not to.

Sorry if I overall sounded a bit harsh though, I fully understand your reasoning now.

[Dark Lum Lord]

Finally this site's working! I kept getting 502 and 503 errors when trying to go here.

[Goldfist]

and Crash is too flat and cartoony for me.

I respect your opinion bro, but being a huge Crash and Rayman fan I have to agree with Rayfist and also ask what's wrong with it being cartoony when you look at a series like Rayman, a very cartoony series?

[OCG]

I guess Rayman uses different style of cartoony then Crash. Ad probably does not like Crash's style which is his opinion after all.

[Rayfist]

Actually I do see some similarities of the cartoony style of Crash and Rayman, not a whole lot, but certainly few.

[Haruka]

and Crash is too flat and cartoony for me.

I respect your opinion bro, but being a huge Crash and Rayman fan I have to agree with Rayfist and also ask what's wrong with it being cartoony when you look at a series like Rayman, a very cartoony series?

I wouldn't say that games like Rayman 3 are very cartoony.

[GNineify]

On the sliding scale of cartooniness I would consider Rayman to be more to the cartoony side, but nowhere as close to the max as Crash. Lol imagine a photorealistic Rayman if I said the games weren't cartoony at all.

[Rayfist]

and Crash is too flat and cartoony for me.

I respect your opinion bro, but being a huge Crash and Rayman fan I have to agree with Rayfist and also ask what's wrong with it being cartoony when you look at a series like Rayman, a very cartoony series?

I wouldn't say that games like Rayman 3 are very cartoony.

He could be referring to Origins, the cartoony aspect of Rayman is part of the reason why I love it.

[Adsolution]

I respect your opinion bro, but being a huge Crash and Rayman fan I have to agree with Rayfist and also ask what's wrong with it being cartoony when you look at a series like Rayman, a very cartoony series?

You seem to be grouping all unrealistic, eccentric artstyles under the term 'cartoony'. The original trilogy hardly even grazes cartoon territory, and are for the most part much more reminiscent of a surreal, otherworldly painting. When it comes to style, Rayman and Crash are lightyears apart.

For note, I'm not including Origins in this discussion.

[Rayfist]

Makes sense, I'm still including Origins though since it's part of the Rayman series. But what are your thoughts on Origins wacky style?
I do think the original trilogy had some cartoony moments actually, I mean not close to the scale of Crash but it's there at times. Like in the NA version of Rayman Arena when Murfy gets constantly beat up, it seems like a real 'cartoony' thing to me. I actually enjoy the cartoony style of the new Rayman games a lot.

[OCG]

Main reason why I like RO is becuase of wacky style.

[Master]

Conversely, that's one of the reasons why it doesn't rank as highly for some of us lot, I think the Rayman series certainly has its fair share of wacky, but only in moderation, RO was going way too far for my tastes.