Rayman 3 scores

[GOT4N]

Hey, Glidewalk is the glitch I found. Funny to see a glitch which I randomly found while TASing is useful in scoring
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk7VPbA2xHE

[Xenon]

additionally i think the last page showed the nature of the rest of this board pretty well. as theres no moderation for trolls in this thread i shouldnt expect a bunch of circlejerking kiddos to be moderated amirite? adsolution army fighting!

People can troll, but only occasionally, and in a non-irritating way There has admittedly been a lot of unreasonable trolling in this thread over the last month, but I'd like to put this, and Adsolution behind us now as we've covered all the bases and RPC has apologised several times.

I'm very much in favour of the suggestion to make as few glitch categories as possible. There's two things I'd like to adress before we can move on with the missing glitches. Videos are in the making at the moment.

1. "The Razoff Dungeon Glitch" has been mentioned earlier by cut. I believe this one is pretty borderline and I've talked to cut about his reasoning behind that, as I myself have not considered this to be a glitch at all (it just makes sense what's happening, i guess...) but he managed to convice me: had the mechanic of razoff not falling off his ball been intentional, i'm pretty sure it would work at every part of the edge. this is clearly not the case. it's not even working in any other particular spot of the dungeon at all. at first, our idea was that this was a safety measure implemented by the programmers so razoff wouldn't fall out of the stage, but even then, this mechanic should work at every part of the edge. i think that therefore it's a reasonable assumption that this is a glitch as well. if the majority of people doesn't think it's necessary to list it as a glitch, i don't really mind either, though.

I don't want to go into glitch definitions, but it seems like a perfectly reasonable and logical thing to happen, despite it perhaps not being intended by the developers. Personally, I don't want to see this "glitch" in the HOF.

2. what about the glidewalk? i believe this is actually a lot more important than what i've said about the dungeon glitch. it's been pointed out during the previous debate that version differences are already marked in the HoF. the glidewalk could be easily covered by another glitch category. furthermore, it doesn't take away skill nor creativity like the PC cheat does. i wouldn't mind adding the glidewalk to the competition under these circumstances, yet again i don't mind keeping it out either, although i would find it inconsistent.
on that note, i suggest we still keep the PC cheat out of the HoF. what do you think?

If it can be used to get extra points (or remove significant obstacles) in the game, I think it should be banned outright. If it can't, I don't see the need to include it in the modified HOF.

As I totally agree with CC's post, I would like to take up again sfn's suggestion of a RayWiki-article about all Glitches and Tricks in the game and implementing a link referring to it at the top of the HoF.

Sounds good to me, although hotlinking (is that even a word anymore?) the Wiki pages from the category titles would work much better imo.

we could have saved our breaths the last 6 weeks when I see now that no one of the claimants are showing interest when we are in the final stage of finding a solution. it's funny, actually, when you think about it. one day we will remember this and laugh... and laugh... and laugh... oh boy!

I've had other commitments to deal with lately. I scanned through the new posts but I didn't have enough time to formulate responses. It's not that I'm not showing interest or anything like that. I haven't spoken to M recently though so I'm not sure where he is.

[sfn42]

1. "The Razoff Dungeon Glitch" has been mentioned earlier by cut. I believe this one is pretty borderline and I've talked to cut about his reasoning behind that, as I myself have not considered this to be a glitch at all (it just makes sense what's happening, i guess...) but he managed to convice me: had the mechanic of razoff not falling off his ball been intentional, i'm pretty sure it would work at every part of the edge. this is clearly not the case. it's not even working in any other particular spot of the dungeon at all. at first, our idea was that this was a safety measure implemented by the programmers so razoff wouldn't fall out of the stage, but even then, this mechanic should work at every part of the edge. i think that therefore it's a reasonable assumption that this is a glitch as well. if the majority of people doesn't think it's necessary to list it as a glitch, i don't really mind either, though.

I don't want to go into glitch definitions, but it seems like a perfectly reasonable and logical thing to happen, despite it perhaps not being intended by the developers. Personally, I don't want to see this "glitch" in the HOF.

I'm sorry to say that but that's just not good enough. We have to discuss these issues, in order to come to a solution that is not half-assed and for that we have to go into glitch definitions. We have to determine what is a glitch and what is not a glitch and we have to categorize glitches in reasonable manner based on some kind of objective and relevant criteria. Basing this on personal preferences is the wrong path to take, irrespective of the ultimate decision on the Razoff dungeon glitch or any other glitch/non-glitch (and I ultimately don't care what the decision is, as long as the process to get there is valid).

I would call it a glitch and list it for the following reasons: The standard gameplay for Razoff part 6 works the following: If Razoff is hit with a HMF, he falls off his cannon ball. The dungeon glitch deviates from that pattern, but only in a very specific location. In that way it is quite similar to the standard launching glitch: The expected behavior for Rayman, if he rolls into an edge, is to just fall off, but in a very few select positions the behavior deviates and Rayman gets launched into the air. The key to all this, as CC mentioned, is the specific location and that the dungeon glitch doesn't occur at other locations. If it was a feature of the outside walls of the room, it would work in any position, but it doesn't and that makes it a glitch, systematically similar to the launching glitch.

2. what about the glidewalk? i believe this is actually a lot more important than what i've said about the dungeon glitch. it's been pointed out during the previous debate that version differences are already marked in the HoF. the glidewalk could be easily covered by another glitch category. furthermore, it doesn't take away skill nor creativity like the PC cheat does. i wouldn't mind adding the glidewalk to the competition under these circumstances, yet again i don't mind keeping it out either, although i would find it inconsistent.
on that note, i suggest we still keep the PC cheat out of the HoF. what do you think?

If it can be used to get extra points (or remove significant obstacles) in the game, I think it should be banned outright. If it can't, I don't see the need to include it in the modified HOF.

I don't see any good reasons to outright ban the glidewalk. We've decided not to use it because of platform inequality but if that was the reasoning for banning a glitch, we'd have to ban the black lums glitch. Our decision is more of a gentlemen's agreement than anything else.

Besides that, I'm not quite sure what to do with the glidewalk, to be honest. At the moment there aren't a lot of uses for it and it doesn't have an impact on scoring whatsoever, but there's always the chance that, in the future, it could be used to increase the maximum in some way (even though, I don't expect that to be a huge increase). We should be prepared for that eventuality. For now, I think your suggestion to not include it in the HoF is probably for the best, but we should keep the option to revise this decision at a later stage.

we could have saved our breaths the last 6 weeks when I see now that no one of the claimants are showing interest when we are in the final stage of finding a solution. it's funny, actually, when you think about it. one day we will remember this and laugh... and laugh... and laugh... oh boy!

I've had other commitments to deal with lately. I scanned through the new posts but I didn't have enough time to formulate responses. It's not that I'm not showing interest or anything like that. I haven't spoken to M recently though so I'm not sure where he is.

To be honest, I'm quite disheartened by the lack of responses. It gives me the impression that, other than you, people just don't care and only came here to fight/troll. Two weeks ago, I wouldn't have had a problem writing the Wiki-article (part of the reason I even suggested it), but if this is the level of interest when it comes to finding and contributing to a solution, I don't think I'm willing to put in the time and effort that would take.

[MandM81]

I've had other commitments to deal with lately. I scanned through the new posts but I didn't have enough time to formulate responses. It's not that I'm not showing interest or anything like that. I haven't spoken to M recently though so I'm not sure where he is.

I too have had other duties taking up my time. I'll return by the end of the week.

[Hunchman801]

Two weeks ago, I wouldn't have had a problem writing the Wiki-article (part of the reason I even suggested it), but if this is the level of interest when it comes to finding and contributing to a solution, I don't think I'm willing to put in the time and effort that would take.

Well I still believe a selfless contribution to the community is within the realms of possibility.

[Xenon]

I'm sorry to say that but that's just not good enough. We have to discuss these issues, in order to come to a solution that is not half-assed and for that we have to go into glitch definitions. We have to determine what is a glitch and what is not a glitch and we have to categorize glitches in reasonable manner based on some kind of objective and relevant criteria. Basing this on personal preferences is the wrong path to take, irrespective of the ultimate decision on the Razoff dungeon glitch or any other glitch/non-glitch (and I ultimately don't care what the decision is, as long as the process to get there is valid).

I would call it a glitch and list it for the following reasons: The standard gameplay for Razoff part 6 works the following: If Razoff is hit with a HMF, he falls off his cannon ball. The dungeon glitch deviates from that pattern, but only in a very specific location. In that way it is quite similar to the standard launching glitch: The expected behavior for Rayman, if he rolls into an edge, is to just fall off, but in a very few select positions the behavior deviates and Rayman gets launched into the air. The key to all this, as CC mentioned, is the specific location and that the dungeon glitch doesn't occur at other locations. If it was a feature of the outside walls of the room, it would work in any position, but it doesn't and that makes it a glitch, systematically similar to the launching glitch.

Alright. If you guys are adamant that it's a serious glitch then I have no problems with including it. To be honest, I haven't used this trick in my own gameplay and am not so familiar with it, from what I've read, so I'm therefore not in the greatest of positions to comment anyway.

I don't see any good reasons to outright ban the glidewalk. We've decided not to use it because of platform inequality but if that was the reasoning for banning a glitch, we'd have to ban the black lums glitch. Our decision is more of a gentlemen's agreement than anything else.

This harks back to the IPG. We both have sharply differing views about the way these kinds of glitches change the gameplay, and in my opinion the glide walk has a lot in common with the IPG in that it takes away a degree of magic from the game, and the traditional way we've (up until now) played it.

Fortunately the glide walk hasn't made an impact so far. I agree with you in saying it's best to leave it aside for the time being, but if players are able to use it strategically in the future, we should deal with it then. After all, there's no saying we can't make future modificationss to the HOF.

To be honest, I'm quite disheartened by the lack of responses. It gives me the impression that, other than you, people just don't care and only came here to fight/troll. Two weeks ago, I wouldn't have had a problem writing the Wiki-article (part of the reason I even suggested it), but if this is the level of interest when it comes to finding and contributing to a solution, I don't think I'm willing to put in the time and effort that would take.

Just because people aren't posting at the moment, doesn't mean they aren't interested. I've explained I've had a busy schedule and M has also said he's busy. By saying "if this is the level of interest ... I don't think I'm willing to put the time and effort that would take" you're sounding a bit like a child who isn't getting attention. Just be patient and allow people some time to respond properly.

If you want some help with writing the articles I don't mind. I think I've written two pages so far (one for TLS and another for a Hoodlum of some sort), so I'm clearly a pr0oO with the Raywiki*. But of course we first have to decide what glitches to include, and I get the feeling we're coming close to the answer.

* please note the sarcasm

[sfn42]

I've actually edited/updated the Hall of Fame page a couple of weeks ago, so using the Raywiki wouldn't be a problem from a technical standpoint.

The lack of interest isn't about one person. Compare the number of people who have posted here during the most intense arguments in January with the number of people who have posted here in reference to the solution we're discussing. I don't see much of a point in writing the Raywiki article if nobody is interested in it and nobody is going to read it. It's supposed to help people, not just be a sequence of words that's wasting away somewhere in the archives.

[Hunchman801]

Just like you said, quite a few people participated earlier so it's safe to assume that they're interested in it, despite not being active right now.

I can also hear the German wiki weeping in despair, the mere fact that it has to undergo such inactivity is breaking my heart.

[Cut]

The main problem for the German wiki seems to be the non-existance of a "real" german community. The english wiki has an outstanding quality, but as long as every german user here is forced to understand/speak english due to the missing german forum, I don't see the point in translating the english wiki, sorry^^

I think the affiliates of the RPC should me made more apparent, as they are great sources for everything you need about Rayman (RayTunes <3). Maybe a little banner of every affiliate in the Headbanner of the RPC with a link.

[Hunchman801]

The main problem for the German wiki seems to be the non-existance of a "real" german community. The english wiki has an outstanding quality, but as long as every german user here is forced to understand/speak english due to the missing german forum, I don't see the point in translating the english wiki, sorry^^

Well I would understand your point of view if the wiki was only aimed at the members of our community stricto sensu, but it's there for all to read and edit. Therefore, a complete German wiki would greatly benefit any person on the internet looking for specific information about Rayman, in German. We don't want English to take over, do we?
As for a German forum, once again I'd be happy to have one if we had enough members to keep it active, but even the German topic isn't.

I think the affiliates of the RPC should me made more apparent, as they are great sources for everything you need about Rayman (RayTunes <3). Maybe a little banner of every affiliate in the Headbanner of the RPC with a link.

There's already tabs and tooltips on the portal, but maybe they're not visible enough?

[Cut]

I think the affiliates of the RPC should me made more apparent, as they are great sources for everything you need about Rayman (RayTunes <3). Maybe a little banner of every affiliate in the Headbanner of the RPC with a link.

There's already tabs and tooltips on the portal, but maybe they're not visible enough?

yeah, I think so. They seem like the little sisters of the RPC but actually these are the things which make the RPC stand out from the crowd. I'm not the biggest friend of the forum structure and the community itself (or better to say, the pinch I know from the community - no offense) but RayWiki and RayTunes deserve the attention and the presentation adequate of their quality. The dark right lower corner of the banner could be used to place Icons there of RayWiki, RayTunes, RaySaves and anything else so that these pages are more directly connected with the boards as you can reach them from every page. Maybe a little training for the changes the HoF seems to expect

[Hunchman801]

Thanks for the heads-up! We need to talk design with Matyuv so I'll see what we can do.

Also, I can see that a great deal of new content has been added to the German wiki lately, so I can only encourage you to do the same.

[MandM81]

I’m still heavily tied up in work-related matters, so this will be a short reply to some issues mentioned above.

First of all, are we really going to have an academic debate whether the dungeon “glitch” is in fact a glitch? If so, here’s my take on it. It is stated it only works in one specific location. It’s not true, it works along the entire perimeter - that is in every spot Razoff hits the fence and changes direction. It’s harder to trigger away from the “sweet spot”, but it’s doable. I don’t see it as a glitch, but I don’t have strong feelings either way.

More interesting is perhaps the notion of the surviving Hoodblaster in BOM part 3. Is that a glitch?

Are we going through all the levels in order to make a complete list of all glitches? If so, it could be an interesting exercise. I’m game.

Since gentleman agreements are mentioned, I suggest we don’t use “glitches” that trigger a mode in the game, where the normal gameplay is dissolved, where Powerups last beyond their regular time range and where you have free access to all areas.

[RibShark]

Sorry to make this worse, but a glitch has been found on the PC (and HD) version allowing the use of IPG on every level.

Basically when camera mode is on every powerup lasts forever.

[MandM81]

Ribshark: Thanks for the video

How did you find this glitch? Does it work only for PC and HD?

I guess it's a whole new ball game now.

[RibShark]

Ribshark: Thanks for the video

How did you find this glitch? Does it work only for PC and HD?

I guess it's a whole new ball game now.

I didn't find it. Basically you press the camera button in a 3-frame window at the end of the loading screen. I believe it only works on PC and HD.

[Cut]

Since gentleman agreements are mentioned, I suggest we don’t use “glitches” that trigger a mode in the game, where the normal gameplay is dissolved, where Powerups last beyond their regular time range and where you have free access to all areas.

No.

@RibShark: well, it could have been worse since this glitch handicaps itself. It's almost impossible to jump while doing combos, and as far as my investigations on this went, there hardly exist theoretical situations in the game where you could benefit from this. But future will tell, I guess.

[MandM81]

Ribshark: If you have found some new trick or glitch, chances are someone else have got it as well or will get it eventually. The best way to deal with this issue is to make it available for all to see. We have enough people around here trying to hide glitches.

Post it here if you want, or you could inform the administrators and moderators through PMs.

[Cut]

Congratulations, you finally made it to murder the best period of Rayman 3 I and the others had since the stone age. You delivered long speeches about the spirit of the game, what you see in it and what you wanted to conserve. You saw the IPG as a tumour, trying to kill the Rayman-3-Game you love. But in reality, the tumour is you.

"Congratulations. Was it worth it? Because despite your violent behavior, the only thing you have managed to break so far is my heart. Maybe you could settle for that and we’ll just call it a day.”
GLaDOS, Portal

[Adsolution]

but only one stupid cunt.

For the love of God, we moved past this dreck ages ago.

But in reality, the tumour is you.

That doesn't make sense, because you didn't even explain how or why.

"Congratulations. Was it worth it? Because despite your violent behavior, the only thing you have managed to break so far is my heart. Maybe you could settle for that and we’ll just call it a day.”
GLaDOS, Portal

There's still no context or explanation here, it's just a severely out-of-place quote.

Your passionate outspokenness to the 'tumours' that are traditional Rayman 3 players, it's literally the exact thing you're accusing us for being towards you guys. But correct me if I'm wrong, we've never said that your viewpoint was tumourous.

The issue regarding glitches/IPG was simply a concern earlier on, but now, it's here. This is moreso a note on, well, how it's a huge deal. It's probably the cheapest point-earning glitch ever discovered, and that it will probably make a far bigger impact on scoring than things before it, the lacking impact and specific nature being two of the main points used to defend free usage of the glitch previously.