The Legend of Zelda topic

[Dark Lum Lord]

Holy shit yes, I was not even aware that there was a Legend of Zelda topic. It's one of my favorite franchises. A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time are both quite addicting for me.

[Reese Riverson]

Does A Link Between Worlds look interesting at all? I haven't pre-ordered, and I haven't seen any info about it, so I'm in the dark here!

Here's a trailer, maybe that'll help give you an idea of what the game is like.

[Master]

If anyone is interested in the Game Grumps, they're playing WWHD:

[Rayfist]

Oh neat, I'll have to check this out!

[Bradandez]

Wind Waker HD looks so beautiful! It looks as if the everything is made out of the smoothest clay. I want to play it so bad.

[Paradox]

Here's a trailer, maybe that'll help give you an idea of what the game is like.

Huh. Some pieces here and there remind me of A Link to the Past, though I'm sure that's intended (Especially considering such similarities in titles- I don't know how I didn't see that coming)
Looks interesting though. I'll definitely have to get it.. but I'll have to get my hands on a 3DS first.

[Dark Lum Lord]

Does A Link Between Worlds look interesting at all? I haven't pre-ordered, and I haven't seen any info about it, so I'm in the dark here!

Here's a trailer, maybe that'll help give you an idea of what the game is like.

And yet another reason to get a 3DS. Be right back, gonna go rob a bank.

[Dark Lum Lord]

Pardon my double posting, but I figured this would be the greatest place to type up this shit.

A Link to the Past (Some say it's overrated, others say it doesn't get enough love and I'm with the latter. In general, none of the games really get the love they deserve because Ocarina sucks it all up like a sponge even though several games before and after it did everything better, but Ocarina's still pretty high up for me because it's still a great game and I had a good experience with it.) > Majora's Mask (Didn't feel bland like Ocarina. The only problem I have with it is that it seemed like it was trying too hard to be creepy, while Ocarina didn't and was genuinely creepy at times itself.) > Wind Waker (Could have been better but still up there as one of the best 3D Zelda games for a good plot and backstory, beautiful artstyle and graphics, and solid gameplay.) > A Link Between Worlds (A Link to the Past 2: Electric Boogaloo. Can't believe it took this long for a proper ALttP sequel in the same timeline as ALttP.) > Ocarina of Time (Yes I put it this far down. Bite me. Still a great game with a good plot and soundtrack, etc., but I felt like it was extremely overrated and could have been worlds better, but I'm being too harsh I suppose since it's the first 3D game in the series. The main problem I have with it is the shitty Z targeting - relativity new and good for its time though - and the fact that the entire setup of the game is copy and pasted from ALttP. ALttP: three pendants in three dungeons with three bosses, Master Sword, more dungeons + bosses + Maidens, Ganon; OoT: three stones in three dungeons with three bosses, Master Sword, more dungeons + bosses + Sages, Ganon(dorf). How original. OoT also has the ocarina(s) - of course - though it's not found in a separate dungeon, but is given to you straight forward instead, that and ALttP also had an ocarina it just wasn't nearly as involved in the plot at all.) > Link's Awakening > Zelda II (Yes, I went there, it's underrated. Bit me. Difficult but I'm a sucker for sidescrolling gameplay, pretty solid soundtrack though it could have been better, fun to explore especially since it has NPCs and towns like later games in the series, nice RPG twist to it, and I love the whole Sleeping Beauty story as well as the backstory even if it is cliche.) > Twilight Princess (Eh, it was fine but I didn't care for it. Whereas most if not all of the other Zelda games are their own thing this entire game felt like it was trying too hard to be Ocarina of Time and had no personality of its own unlike the others. Also, Zelda felt more bland than usual and it feels like they just threw her in there for the sake of her being in it which wasn't necessary.) > Legend of Zelda (The one that started it all. It's a pile of garbage compared to the ones later in the series, naturally, since it's quite old by now, but it's still a great game worth playing.) > Skyward Sword (Didn't like it. Not that it's a bad game in general, it's just not my thing and it didn't feel like a Zelda game at all, but granted I'm glad that Nintendo's always switching up the series by making most of the games completely different - the game tends to get a lot of shit from others in general though.)

*All in my opinion

TL;DR: ALttP > MM > WW > ALBW > OoT > LA DX > Zelda II > TP (Heh?) > LoZ > SS

Will conjure up another useless list of personal preferences that won't apply to everyone when I play more of the games in the series. Perhaps I was a bit hard on Skyward Sword since I put it way in the end, but meh, it's moments like this in which I realize that it's hard to compare the 3D and 2D games in one list let alone just all of the 3D games in a single list or all of the 2D ones in a single list. Actually, I'm going to go ahead and do that, read on if you actually have time to.

2D: A Link to the Past > Link's Awakening > Zelda II > Legend of Zelda - haven't gotten around to Four Swords but from what I've seen of it I'd probably put it right behind ALttP.

3D: Majora's Mask > Wind Waker > A Link Between Worlds (Top-down like 2D, still 3D though.)/Ocarina of Time (Same spot since I can't decide between them, perhaps I love ALBW because my hype for a ALttP-esque game is speaking for me, but meh.) > Twilight Princess/Skyward Sword - looking back on it, I'll also put TP and SS in the same place since I can't decide between them.

[Keane]

Interesting little debate topic here. I'm sure most of are familiar and/or have played these titles, and there's a fair bit of debate over which of the two is the best. For me, personally, Majora's is definitely the better of the two: Covering some surprising concepts and overall being one of the most emotionally appealing games I know. Ocarina however, brings in a little more childish charm, and has a strong theme to it. Opinions?

[Dark Lum Lord]

Majora's Mask by a landslide. Not that Ocarina of Time isn't good, I just don't see what others seen it it I guess. Majora's Mask was far more fun, had a more fleshed out plot and easily has players coming up with many theories to add to it/fill in any blanks. It also had characters that weren't virtual cardboard, creepy music, and added in masks (No shit) to expand the gameplay.

As opposed to the darkness of MM, OoT does have an atmosphere of innocence, childishness, and high fantasy to it. I can understand why someone might prefer this, but me being the teen fuck I am, I'm inclined to go with anything emo. On top of that, there's also the everlasting argument over which game has better gameplay. Which dungeons are better, sidequests vs. main story, etc. The dungeons in OoT were far more memorable whereas the ones in MM are hard to remember making them feel new each time, which is why I like MM's more. But I'd give the upperhand to OoT since it had so many more dungeons in general. But overall, I liked the gameplay in MM a lot more - it was more challenging and had more action to offer whereas the dungeons in OoT always felt like boring or frustrating chores to me. I also like the direction the sidequests went in MM - taking up the majority of the game, being emotionally involving, etc., whereas the sidequests in OoT were laughable.

Oh shit, and don't even bring up the bosses. Bleh, I don't even know. I'll just go ahead and say that I prefer the Majora battle over the Ganon(dorf) one and leave it at that. Anyways, tl;dr, I like Majora's Mask because Ocarina of Time is A Link to the Past 2: Electric Boogaloo.

[Dart]

Majora's Mask is easily my favorite Zelda title so far. Due to there only being 4 dungeons in the whole game, we had to use every item we had to complete a dungeon, instead of the one dungeon item being spammed constantly. As DLL points out the tone and narrative as well as side quests help make it a unique title in the series for multiple reasons.

However, just being dark and gloomy doesn't do very much for me, as Zelda's 2nd darkest game, Twilight Princess, is my least favorite Zelda title. Say what you will about TP, but the chore-like dungeons and the incredibly annoying wolf form are hardly what I would have wanted in their respective fields (heck, Makaar & Medli were more entertaining to control.)

[sonicbrawler182]

OoT VS Majora's Mask?

Wind Waker wins.
Specifically the HD remake since it's even better, but yeah, Wind Waker is my favourite so far.

[Bradandez]

THAT DOESN'T COUNT!!!

AND OH MY GOD! MAJORA's MASK IS THE GREATEST LoZ GAME I'VE NEVER PLAYED IN MY LIFE!
So Link is on a adventure to find SPOILERS!

As I never played it myself, I love Majora's Mask mostly for it's presentation. When I stumbled across the BEN DROWNED videos, I discovered the game. I went to watch gameplay, cutscenes, and listened to the soundtrack. I loved the Skull Kid and the story that revolves around him (so sad). From the gameplay I've seen, it's interesting. Only 3 Days to save the world from the moon crashing into it? Talk about pressure! And all the masks that give you different forms and abilities.

I really love Majora's Mask and it's dark atmosphere. I hope to get it a physical copy of the game soon. (And I'll be playing it for the first time this summer.)

[Master]

Hm, channelling the bum, are we?
I've never really held any interest to the Zelda series meself, I've had my curiosity piqued at times, but never to the extent where I've wanted to run and try the games, as I did Metroid and Ace Attorney. Guess it isn't my cuppa.

Though seeing the amount of Zelda fans here, I'm curious as to why this topic was in limbo, isn't there an upcoming game for you folk to look forward to?

[Bradandez]

Haha! Someone got it!

The reason why I got into Zelda was to be with all the cool kids who were into the nostalgia (which I now dislike for reasons). I started with the Ocarina of Time. And I played some of the other titles but never managed to finish them. And yeah, Hyrule Warriors will be shown off at E3 this year and I don't see why anyone has brought it up.

This is Bradandez saying, TINGS! YOU GOT ANY TINGS! COME ON HELP A RAYMAN FAN OUT, WILL YA!?!

[sonicbrawler182]

Hm, channelling the bum, are we?
I've never really held any interest to the Zelda series meself, I've had my curiosity piqued at times, but never to the extent where I've wanted to run and try the games, as I did Metroid and Ace Attorney. Guess it isn't my cuppa.

Though seeing the amount of Zelda fans here, I'm curious as to why this topic was in limbo, isn't there an upcoming game for you folk to look forward to?

While Hyrule Warriors has had a lot of information released recently and will be at E3, it's not something that interests some Zelda fans, since it's a Dynasty Warriors game with a Zelda skin and with Zelda influence in terms of gameplay. As for the "real" Zelda title for Wii U, we simply don't know anything about it yet. It will likely be at E3, which may also cause Hyrule Warriors to get completely overshadowed.

Personally, Hyrule Warriors is one of my most anticipated games of this year, but not everyone is looking forward to it, since the gameplay is totally different. As for why I haven't been talking about it, I simply don't spend a lot of time on RPC anymore.

[Dart]

Hm, channelling the bum, are we?
I've never really held any interest to the Zelda series meself, I've had my curiosity piqued at times, but never to the extent where I've wanted to run and try the games, as I did Metroid and Ace Attorney. Guess it isn't my cuppa.

Though seeing the amount of Zelda fans here, I'm curious as to why this topic was in limbo, isn't there an upcoming game for you folk to look forward to?

While Hyrule Warriors has had a lot of information released recently and will be at E3, it's not something that interests some Zelda fans, since it's a Dynasty Warriors game with a Zelda skin and with Zelda influence in terms of gameplay. As for the "real" Zelda title for Wii U, we simply don't know anything about it yet. It will likely be at E3, which may also cause Hyrule Warriors to get completely overshadowed.

Personally, Hyrule Warriors is one of my most anticipated games of this year, but not everyone is looking forward to it, since the gameplay is totally different. As for why I haven't been talking about it, I simply don't spend a lot of time on RPC anymore.

Can't wait for the zelda news myself, since I need more reasons to buy a personal wiiu when the year ends. I wonder if it'll get its own bundle

[Dark Lum Lord]

Lulu and her silent depression, her lost eggs, and dead Mikau; Butler's son is dead, freezing gorons, pleading goron spirit, Skull Kild possessed by an evil mask, going around and fucking with everyone. Romani date raped by aliens and Kafei transformed into a kid, running away from Anju, oh and a fUCKING MOON WITH A SCOWL NEARING ITS COLLISON WITH THE PLANET. Of course, there's also the naive citizens who ignore this fact at the start of the game and later on most escape to Romani Ranch even though that won't save them from a fUCKING MOON.

No, but really, no other game has attached itself to me like this one. As for Hyrule Warriors, I'm not hyped for it since I don't know much about it and I have no desire at all to get a Wii U because Nintendo is officially dead to me since they still haven't given us a real gaming controller. Really, Gamecube's was a fucking marvel and the Wiimote was interesting for two seconds after which I got bored with swinging my arms like a retard to play a shitty casual game (The Wii did have some great gems among the pile of casual garbage, of course).

[sonicbrawler182]

Lulu and her silent depression, her lost eggs, and dead Mikau; Butler's son is dead, freezing gorons, pleading goron spirit, Skull Kild possessed by an evil mask, going around and fucking with everyone. Romani date raped by aliens and Kafei transformed into a kid, running away from Anju, oh and a fUCKING MOON WITH A SCOWL NEARING ITS COLLISON WITH THE PLANET. Of course, there's also the naive citizens who ignore this fact at the start of the game and later on most escape to Romani Ranch even though that won't save them from a fUCKING MOON.

No, but really, no other game has attached itself to me like this one. As for Hyrule Warriors, I'm not hyped for it since I don't know much about it and I have no desire at all to get a Wii U because Nintendo is officially dead to me since they still haven't given us a real gaming controller. Really, Gamecube's was a fucking marvel and the Wiimote was interesting for two seconds after which I got bored with swinging my arms like a retard to play a shitty casual game (The Wii did have some great gems among the pile of casual garbage, of course).

http://smashboards.com/threads/gamecube ... ed.355870/

[Adsolution]

Wind Waker HD looks so beautiful! It looks as if the everything is made out of the smoothest clay. I want to play it so bad.

Ugh, no. I honestly think that they completely ruined it, graphically. There's so much bloom in this remake it makes me keep wanting to clean my glasses because I'm thinking they're smudged constantly, who thought that putting in this much bloom was a good idea? The lack of cel-shading also bothers me, but that's more preference than it is a critical killing of an aesthetic rule of thumb.


This, and most sunny areas in the game bother my eyes. There's so much bloom from the sky it just bleeds onto everything, fogging it all up. The only part of the image that isn't thickly masked in the bloom from the sky is the part I've outlined in red. Bloom can certainly be done well, of course, it's a technique used to bring warmth to a scene and blend the colours together. This isn't blending though, this is like taking a giant transparent blue overlay and lathering it on the entire image.


I'll take some of Nintendo's own comparison shots as a basis for specific criticism:


Am I the only one who finds it strange that his face is no longer illuminated here? On the right (GameCube), the Sun lighting is warm without taking over, and the colours all perfectly contrast eachother. The left (Wii U) looks like they forgot that the Sun exists and, obviously, cranked up the bloom so that it covers the entire image, making the main event the sky and not Link. And I'm even one of those people that think Microsoft is being pretentious by ditching a nice UI design (Aero, the thing Vista and 7 had going for them) in place of a flat look almost solely because "it draws users' attention to the main window contents better".


Not only does it look like someone shot this with a far-over-exposed camera causing Aryll's facial features to become almost invisible in the Wii U version, the shadows are also far, far too defined to accommodate the soft, bloomy style they're going for. There's literally no penumbra at all, it's an immediate switch from light to dark. They're even sharper than the original's, which makes artifacts all the more obvious, and actually makes the shadows themselves look like artifacts in the geometry at times. If they wanted to do this, they really could have made the shadows lighter.


Oh come on, the lighting here is just a joke. Look at the bottom of his hair and face in the Wii U version, that looks like something you'd expect out of an N64 game, and the ground is bright as ass; what is that, rubber? I also don't know what possessed them to make that nice gradient textbox they had in the GC version into such a bright, intrusive turquoise that doesn't mesh with anything in the Wii U version. Link's nose also looks like a pig's. The models were just not designed for this kind of a lighting solution, and they made no effort to fix that. I'd almost say that the Wii U screenshot here looks like an unfinished version of the GameCube scene on the right, as if they're just using some default lambert shader while they're testing out gameplay mechanics. The blending they used on the shine rays also clearly used some kind of color-burn-like blending in the GameCube version so that they wouldn't interfere with the extreme blacks such as Link's pupils, but in the Wii U version, they just seem ordinarily transparent and grey his eyes out, making him look like a lifeless toy as opposed to the lively, animated cartoon he is on the right-hand image.


Aesthetically, this one looks okay in the Wii U version. What's wrong then? This is the bloody Forsaken Fortress, they made it look like some peaceful, welcoming enchanted fairy house. The dark colours contrasting with the bright, defined lights and the light-to-dark vertical background gradient in the GameCube version actually make it look like a cold, frightening place. The glowing windows in the Wii U version are almost reminiscent of fireflies, things you don't typically associate with something broodingly industrial. Also, they kind of fucked up the light shader- in the GC, you can clearly see that they lighten everything behind them - in the Wii U, they only lighten the lights behind them, but everything else is dark. That's a nitpick, but it just goes to show how all these various HD ports of games as of late seem to be very sloppily done.

I don't understand why they couldn't have gone through the game and added detail, made things physically better wherever possible. Made better models, better textures, modelled 3D objects in place of where some flat textures were used before, added another level of life to the Wind Waker world. All they did, like with most other recent HD ports, is change the lighting scheme, maybe add one random physical detail in, and throw some filters over top, and in this case, a very shitty one. The vast majority of people in independent game development I've spoken to all agree with me in there being too much bloom, and it being an extremely lazy attempt.

Regarding the removal of the cel-shading (a retarded idea in my opinion, why would they ditch one of the best ideas they've ever had, and the thing that basically defines Wind Waker?), all it did was reveal more flaws. One of the reasons I think the GameCube version looks so much more pristine is, aside from the much, much more refined look of it, the full-on cel-shading actually completely hides all model deficiencies, making it effortlessly look like a beautifully stylised cartoon rather than a video game that was trying to look like a storybook, but gave up a fifth of the way through.

In some places mind you, the HD version does shine, but not often. The original had a very specific style it was going for, and it pulled it off perfectly. This version took a bit of a different route, and while I understand what they were going for, I think they took a wrong turn at the very beginning as to how they should go about getting there. There are other, far better solutions to blend the sea and sky together and make the world glow, but just using bloom is the laziest and worst way you could go about it. I'm not joking, it's beyond amateur, and the results are just morbid. I'm willing to bet that most who disagree think that the current HD version is just fine and can't picture what a more optimal solution would look like. I can assure you, they could have done so much more and so much differently. There is nothing being done in this so-called 'HD' version that couldn't have been done on the GameCube, aside from run in 1080p.


- No, I'm not being some pretentious person who would rather look at technicalities/what the textbook says is the right amount of something instead of looking at it for what it is, or a purist, I was bothered by it the second I laid eyes upon the first official screenshots on Facebook before I even knew I was looking at Wind Waker. Since I've been working with engines for a while now, I know instantly what I'm looking at, likely how it was done, and what they could have done better. In most cases I'm satisfied, but this, along with most HD ports, leave me in shock at how little work was put into them, and how quickly they wanted to shovel out a port to nostalgiafags and newcomers that's just different enough to avoid the virtual console.