Rayman 2

For discussions about the Rayman series.
Forum rules
Please keep the forum rules and guidelines in mind when creating or replying to a topic.

Which version is your favourite?

PC
116
37%
Nintendo 64
20
6%
Dreamcast
49
16%
PlayStation 1
22
7%
Revolution (PlayStation 2)
94
30%
Forever (GBC)
3
1%
DS
2
1%
iOS
1
0%
3DS
4
1%
 
Total votes: 311

sonicbrawler182
Barbara
Posts: 2150
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:09 pm
Location: Ireland
Tings: 11810

Re: Rayman 2

Post by sonicbrawler182 »

Rayfist wrote:Wait... Rayman 2 aging poorly, really? I think Rayman 2 very well stood the test of time. I recently watched Adsolution play it via skype on very high settings and it still looks great. Sure, Rayman 2 was released around a time where mediocre platformers were filled to the brim (Bubsy, Croc, and many others) but it truly made itself stand out from every other platformer around that time, even the really good ones.
I wasn't referring to it's graphics (though it has aged in that aspect too, it's inevitable that it would).

Like I listed off, the enemy A.I. is outright braindead, there are mandatory mini-game segments that control terribly, the obstacles often don't feel like they were programmed right and you can just tank through them or even use them as platforms to jump off of while invulnerable. Most other games of the time manage to do most of these things a lot better. It also has the same camera issues any other 3D platformer of the time would have.

The game is still enjoyable since controlling Rayman on foot feels great, and the levels are nice enough to explore (though I also think it's almost as linear as Origins/Legends, and people overrate how explorative it is. It has more in common with Crash Bandicoot most of the time, than it does with open-ended 3D platformers like Super Mario 64, Spyro, and Banjo-Kazooie).

However, while I enjoy Rayman 2, I felt Legends did more of what it set out to do right, while Rayman 2 falls short on more of it's goals than Legends does. People fault Legends for not having much of a story, for example, but it was well known long before the game released that it would not have one. And when it comes to overall mechanics, Legends is a lot more fun to control, and then the levels did not bore me as they never stuck to one aesthetic for too long.

A lot of people appreciate Rayman 2 more than the latest Rayman games because they felt it was deeper and more engaging due to it's characters and more quaint atmosphere, which is fine, but I didn't find Rayman 2 to be particularly special in that regard. It was no Super Mario Galaxy to me (a game I can almost completely forgive for it's gameplay shortcomings due to the amazing atmosphere and brilliant and engaging characters it introduced to the series, as well as it's story elements surrounding some of the characters outside of Mario, Peach, and Bowser). It was just a fun, family friendly adventure, but the story elements and the atmosphere weren't so engaging that I could ignore it's gameplay shortcomings. And only a few levels stick out to me in Rayman 2 (for better or for worse), so there are only a few levels I have specific fond memories of and would have an inclination to replay. With Legends, though, I could pop into any level and know I will have a really, really fun time, for various reasons.
PluMGMK
Annetta Fish
Posts: 40508
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:00 pm
Location: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cErgMJSgpv0
Contact:
Tings: 136606

Re: Rayman 2

Post by PluMGMK »

Haruka wrote:Back to R2, I'm in perfect agreement with Droolie's counter review, as I share the exact feelings and thoughts. Those bits of information that do not appear in the game itself are a real shame that they were not included, because they do give a real view of the war with the Robo-Pirates; but like it was said, this game was made back in 1999 and there were still lots of technological barreers. If R2 was having a remake (not a reboot), I'm sure that all of these stuff could be included and even depicted in cutscenes. And concerning the reveal of Rayman's origin, although it was pretty interesting along with the Jano story, as Droolie said, I think there are stuff that should be kept as unanswered.
It seems they actually were going to include that extra information in the game, possibly as a slideshow, because those wallpapers were recently found in the game files, alongside the loading screens. So perhaps "technical limitations" and the like shouldn't be taken as an excuse.

About the combat and AI, I agree that it's a joke, but keep in mind that it was supposed to be a game that kids could play. It can still be challenging enough for someone really young trying to play it (either that or I really suck(ed)!).
Maybe 'm trying to excuse too much though, and they really didn't have enough of an idea of what they were doing with enemy placement and the like, so they softened it up just in case.
Haruka
Ly
Posts: 26748
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:19 pm
Contact:
Tings: 200115

Re: Rayman 2

Post by Haruka »

PluMGMK wrote:t seems they actually were going to include that extra information in the game, possibly as a slideshow, because those wallpapers were recently found in the game files, alongside the loading screens. So perhaps "technical limitations" and the like shouldn't be taken as an excuse.
Is there something I've missed? I want to see those wallpapers.
PluMGMK
Annetta Fish
Posts: 40508
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:00 pm
Location: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cErgMJSgpv0
Contact:
Tings: 136606

Re: Rayman 2

Post by PluMGMK »

I'm referring to the images on the RayWiki page that Droolie posted above. I knew the images but had never seen the text before, by the way, thank you Droolie for bringing it to my, and surely others', attention.
Haruka
Ly
Posts: 26748
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:19 pm
Contact:
Tings: 200115

Re: Rayman 2

Post by Haruka »

Ah ok. Those texts used to be present in the official Rayman 2 website back in 1999/2000, but not many people remember these.
Bradandez
Annetta Fish
Posts: 18589
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:50 am
Tings: 137530

Re: Rayman 2

Post by Bradandez »

I forgot to mention this in my review, but I agree that in terms of graphics of the characters, they still look very good for an almost 15 year old game.
Dart
Clark
Posts: 4950
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:04 pm
Location: The Realm Of Perpetual Sleepiness
Tings: 49845

Re: Rayman 2

Post by Dart »

Bradandez wrote:I can see how it shines through all those games but dealing with the Rayman franchise, this game isn't really all that great as most members say it is.
I would still call it a pretty solid game, not as solid as 3 & Origins, mind you; but still pretty solid.
Droolie
Musician
Posts: 5344
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:31 pm
Tings: 67840

Re: Rayman 2

Post by Droolie »

PluMGMK wrote:It seems they actually were going to include that extra information in the game, possibly as a slideshow, because those wallpapers were recently found in the game files, alongside the loading screens. So perhaps "technical limitations" and the like shouldn't be taken as an excuse.
I personally don't think there's any excuse for not including it in a playable form, but if they weren't going to include it, I think they made the right decision not to have a slideshow of it at the beginning of the game. It would have made the intro feel very rushed and/or dated and I don't think many new players would have appreciated it.

Now, let's continue my little counter review.
Bradandez wrote:And now moving onto the world of Rayman 2 and oh boy; am I going to get a lot of hell for this. I found Rayman 2’s Glade boring. All honesty right here, I felt that it lack variety. It’s mostly just grass and swamp themed levels most of the time. Sure you get the occasional fire themed or beach levels, but still even when those show up they feel like they lack. In all the other games in the main series didn’t have this problem. The other entries had great diversity in their worlds, the 2D games shine in this area the most! They had great worlds like; Band Land, Picture City, Gourmand Land, Moody Clouds, Fiesta de los Muertos, and 20,000 Lums Under the Sea just to name a few. I guess there’s the argument that Rayman 2 isn’t split into worlds and instead is just a huge world itself. I can see that. But still, I can’t say I found Rayman 2’s Glade memorable.
Indeed, my first counter argument would be that Rayman 2's Glade is one coherent world, which is something none of the other games pull off. The Glade is very natural, which contrasts with the Robo-Pirates' factories and forts. This in turn makes the pollution caused by the Robo-Pirates very evident. It is clear that this was the intention - just look at the last part of the Fairy Glade, with the black goop coming from the pipes. If Rayman 2 had featured unnatural worlds like the rest of the series, it would destroy this contrast completely and also undermine the feeling that you're really exploring a world, instead of just a few very different levels like Super Mario 64. That in turn would have weakened the story even further, and the point of the game would have simply become to collect all the Lums - not saving the world and your friends, and ending the war once and for all.
For one, this would have had a huge effect on the fanbase - there would only be people like you, who prefer gameplay and fun levels over world and story, as people like myself, who prefer going on an actual adventure, would never have become a fan of a game. Second, reviewers would have looked down upon Rayman 2 as another Super Mario 64 clone, and with the story not having any more importance, the flaws in the gameplay would have stood out more. Most likely, they would have given Rayman 2 scores like your 7.5 and the Rayman franchise would never have gotten important enough for Ubisoft to bring back from the dead. Which they ended up doing in 2011 with Origins.

Besides, how is the Glade not varied? Here, let me sum up the types of levels you get:
  • Green forest-themed levels
  • Yellow/brown forest-themed level (the Canopy)
  • Pirate fort-themed levels (like the sneaking part in the Fairy Glade and the beginning of the Echoing Caves)
  • Swamp-themed levels
  • Two beach levels
  • An ice temple
  • A fire temple and a lava temple
  • A death-themed cave (Cave of Bad Dreams)
  • A pirate-polluted cave (Echoing Caves)
  • A deep sea level
  • A cliffs level (Precipice)
  • A creepy tomb level
  • Pirate ship themed levels
Number of categories: 13.

This is what you get in Rayman Origins:
  • Forest levels by day
  • Forest levels by night
  • Desert levels with a night sky background, high up in the sky
  • Desert levels on the ground, by day
  • Ice levels
  • Firey kitchen levels
  • A level in the stomach of a dragon chef
  • Globox village on fire level
  • Deep sea levels
  • Inside the mountains (fakir) levels
  • Outside the mountains (snow) levels
  • Factory levels
  • A death-themed bonus level
Number of categories: 13.
As you can see, I tried really hard to split that into several categories and even then I could only just reach the number Rayman 2 has. And this while Rayman 2 is a far shorter game than Rayman Origins! Of course, the green forest and swamp levels in Rayman 2 stand out because there are admittedly many of them, and because the lush forests are beautifully stylized, and I guess because the initial few forest levels create your first impression and first impressions can be hard to change. When I try to think of Rayman 1 or Origins, or Legends, the first level I picture is a forest level, for all games, since that's always how you start out. ;)
I think it stands out most in Rayman 2 because of the Hall of Doors. It's a big, magical and starry forest that you keep returning to, so you're bound to see some forest every 20-30 minutes. I didn't feel Rayman 2 was full of forests when I played the Dreamcast version which had an island instead - instead I felt there were a lot of shores in the game. Note that all of the other Rayman games either had world maps showing each section of the world equally, or not at all (R3), and no world stands out in particular there. Coincidence? I think not! :P
Bradandez wrote:Last but not least, wait a second this is least because Rayman 2’s music is by far the least enjoyable for me in all of the Rayman series. I am sorry Shroobie, but I swear I just can’t for the love of God couldn’t enjoy Rayman 2’s soundtrack. Sure it has some fantastic tunes that I really love, but even then the negatives just outbalance than the positives. It literally took me three days to motivate myself just to finish the entirety of the In-Game soundtrack (also thanks Droolie for ripping of all the Rayman music! That’s real nice of you!). I hate to say it but I found most of the tracks to feel repetitive. Not in melody but in the instruments. The tracks definitely differ from one another, but the instruments don’t seem to change as much as the tune. Sure you get the occasional electric guitar but I can’t say it makes up for the lack of variety. I think this might be because I don’t listen to Rayman 2’s soundtrack as much as the other games’ soundtracks, but overall I found most of the music to be boring.
(You're welcome!)
But basically, you listened to the entire soundtrack on RayTunes and found it repetitive. You didn't listen to all the reprise versions of the same melody, did you? Those were just added to Rayman Revolution to provide extra material when looping the same melody for too long.
If that's not it, then all I can say is that while going along with the coherent world idea that's present in Rayman 2, Eric Chevalier tried to create a "sound" for that world. That sound - along with the instruments - changes according to the type of level you're in, and according to the action. I think there's enough variety in the instruments... unless you're talking about the crazy kind of instruments, like a kazoo and whatnot - only RO and RL have that and I think it's for the better. That kind of instruments would effectively ruin the atmosphere.

That said, while the music in RO and RL is definitely not bad, and Christophe Héral is an amazing composer (I love his work for BG&E, maybe more than the R2 soundtrack!), I have to say a comparison between the R2 and the RO soundtrack in terms of feelings immediately points out what's wrong with the new Rayman games in general. When I listen to Rayman 2's soundtrack, I hear a lot of catchy melodies expressing many different feelings and many different situations. I don't want to listen to the whole soundtrack at the moment, so I'll just take some random songs:
  • Hopelessness (intro music)
  • Funny situations, jokes, etc (King of the Teensies)
  • Rest, peacefulness (Teensie circle)
  • Danger (the Pirates! theme, of course)
  • Sneaking (Infiltrating the Fortress)
  • Wonder and miracles (Ly's theme)
  • Help, this is going too fast! Wait, this is getting kind of fun. Whoa I must look badass! (Water Skiing)
  • Seeing with your own eyes how the enemies are polluting the world (Bayou ~ Dark Swamp)
  • Whoa... what is this place? (The Four Masks)
  • Wow, this guy is so strong... a little bit too strong for his own good though, it's kind of scary. I wouldn't want him as my enemy... (Clark's theme)
See, I didn't even bother listing the feelings I get for more than 1/10th or so of the complete soundtrack, but the list is already longer than the one I can write for Rayman Origins:
  • Gotta go fast! (too much songs like this)
  • Hmm I'm treading on dangerous territory here, but still... gotta go fast! (too many songs like this)
  • Let's beat up the enemies! (still too much songs like this)
  • That boss looks really fierce and dangerous because it's so huge! (pretty much all boss songs)
  • Hey guys I'm on a Moskito! Bzzzzz! (Shooting me Softly)
  • This is fun! (but ugh shut up already, background voices!)
  • I'm so badass. (Chasing a Dream)
The music in Rayman Legends is a lot better in this regard, with catchier melodies and less annoying instrumentation as an extra, but sadly, it's still miles behind Rayman 2's soundtrack in my opinion. But hey - I guess some people enjoy listening to laughing chefs more than listening to the score of an epic adventure.

Anyway, so far I provided counter arguments and counter opinions about the story, the world, the art and the music.
These things all work together to create an atmosphere, and that atmosphere is what countless people have said to be better in Rayman 2 than in any other Rayman game. It can pretty much be summed up with the feelings I listed from the music above. As you can see, in Rayman Origins and Legends, there was really little to no variety in feelings (which doesn't mean there was none! A happy feeling is a feeling too, and it creates atmosphere, but there was just too much of that happy feeling). The atmosphere that Rayman 2 painted was far more majestic, far more varied, thanks to the huge palette of feelings it is able to convey.

And that, my friends, is why Rayman 2 rules. :)

... As for the gameplay, I agree. But I feel it is less important for a game when the game is clearly a lot more about the atmosphere than anything else. :) I can forgive that RO and RL don't have that kind of atmosphere too, as it's clear the games are all about the gameplay - but then I feel they shouldn't have been sequels to the Rayman games. The Rayman games had always been atmospheric since the first one, but they haven't been since RRR (except RRR GBA, which I found okay in that aspect).

...... Also, this post is far too long already, but I just want to apologize if I insulted RO and RL slightly too much. It's definitely nothing personal if that's what it seems like, and I kind of like Rayman Legends now (not Origins, sorry)! It's just that I find it quite a daring feat to rate Rayman Legends higher than Rayman 2, even for non-gameplay aspects - and I felt I had to reply with an elaborate two-post counter review like this. :P

Sorry for the huge walls of text, and see you!
Drolpiraat.
Last edited by Droolie on Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Haruka
Ly
Posts: 26748
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:19 pm
Contact:
Tings: 200115

Re: Rayman 2

Post by Haruka »

That was quite a read, but once more, I am in full agreement with everything said by Droolie.

In fact, I want to applause. I really have nothing to add.

Image
Bradandez
Annetta Fish
Posts: 18589
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:50 am
Tings: 137530

Re: Rayman 2

Post by Bradandez »

Okay, I'm not going to argue with that... ON HERE! Ha, Bradandez never lets a good discussion die. Unless it drags on for too long. But I'm going to be reviewing and PRAISING the wonderful, delightful masterpiece that is Rayman Origins, that is why I'm going to be posting my ideas on that topic.

I completely disagree on how that atmosphere is more important than gameplay. A game is something that's suppose to let the player take control. Sure, having story and character is a good addition but it shouldn't be the main focus. A game with a shitty story but great gameplay can be forgiven, but a game with shitty gameplay and a great story sadly can't. If it was that way I might as well be watching a movie.

Nothing can nor will ever convince me that Rayman 2 is the best game for me. It may have story and characters, but its the gameplay that kills it for me. If the UbiArt Rayman games had the story to it, then I might feel the same way as members do for Rayman 2. But sadly, the potential was never taken. Rayman Origins and Legends will have that charm, personality, and overall good feeling that Rayman 2 can never hit right. I'm Bradandez, I remember so I can shamelessly promote myself.
Adsolution
Holly Luya
Posts: 22233
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:55 pm
Contact:
Tings: 110541

Re: Rayman 2

Post by Adsolution »

Bradandez wrote:I completely disagree on how that atmosphere is more important than gameplay.
You totally didn't read Drolpiraat's post at all.

Anyway, while Rayman 1 is my favourite of the games (it was very hard for me to pick it over Rayman 2, but I can't deny my inner feelings), Rayman 2 is by far the most cohesive Rayman game to be released, and likely with the best direction behind it. I've never played a game that felt anything like Rayman 2 before or after it, it's unique in my eyes. It's quite light-core compared to Origins and Legends and certainly not very difficult, but rather than challenging me too much, I found the game to be simply enjoyable throughout.

To me, Rayman 2 is what to be what Romantic artists would call a Gesamtkunstwerk, the unity between all aspects of art in a way that formulates a perfect, balanced whole. No aspect of it feels detached, excessive or underplayed, and it's that perfect balance alongside its enchanting, mystic and epic storybook/fairytale nature that strikes such a meaningful chord with me. I look for things to criticise in games, usually moreso things that are a result of inconsistent or poor direction, which are usually the cause for flaws that would actually bother me - Rayman 2 I find incredibly difficult to objectively criticise.

Origins is amazingly fun as a platformer, but as a work of art, it's a complete directionless mess - Legends arguably even moreso, despite having, in my opinion, a better art style.
Shrooblord
Mr Stone
Posts: 15762
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:07 pm
Location: The Buccaneer MK. II
Tings: 68850

Re: Rayman 2

Post by Shrooblord »

Drolpiraat wrote:(...)
And that, my friends, is why Rayman 2 rules. :)
... and why I no longer have to list all of the things you already did before me!

Seriously though, if you want my view on Rayman 2, basically just sum up what Haruka and Drolpiraat said. All I can say is that all the things you found cons in the game, Brad, are all the exact things I found massive pros. There weren't too many same-old same-old forests, for example, but rather a great amount of beautiful forest-like environments.

Gameplay-wise, funnily enough, I disagree with everyone: I like the gameplay in Rayman 2 very much. And even though it may not be the most challenging game for me, replaying it makes me relive all the bagillion memories I have of playing the game, every single time. Every time I go through, I remember what I did all those times before, how happy I was with the game back then and how happy I am with it in that moment too.
Oh, and the Riding the Shell sequences are some of my favourite gameplay mechanics I've come across in any game I've played so far.

And the music! Cor... the music. Can't say much more than what's already been said, except that Chevalier is one of my idols. Right up there with Murray Gold, Rémi Gazel and John Williams.

To bring my point across more concisely than many arguments could: Rayman 2 is my favourite game. Ever. On all aspects. Don't ask me why if you don't want to hear someone gushing. :P

PS
Oh, and guys, thanks for all these reviews and comments. They make me look back to my design choices for my own game and give me good inspiration on where to improve or do more of! ;D

===
PPS
And then Addy has to ninja-post-delete-edit his post above. I agree! If I were to be completely, brutally honest, yes, the battles with Robo-Pirates may have been put together better, but don't you tell me the Pirates are a breeze when you don't pussy out and stand fifty feet away from them! Those clunky metal hulls are bad-asses at catching you off-guard and swiping you with their surprise insta-kill hook or knocking you right off the edge of a platform if you stand too close. Anyway, you know how I feel.
Adsolution
Holly Luya
Posts: 22233
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:55 pm
Contact:
Tings: 110541

Re: Rayman 2

Post by Adsolution »

Shrooblord wrote:Gameplay-wise, funnily enough, I disagree with everyone: I like the gameplay in Rayman 2 very much. And even though it may not be the most challenging game for me, replaying it makes me relive all the bagillion memories I have of playing the game, every single time. Every time I go through, I remember what I did all those times before, how happy I was with the game back then and how happy I am with it in that moment too.
I didn't really make my stance on the gameplay very clear, but I completely agree with this as well! The platforming mechanics are in my opinion the most beautifully crafted out of any 3D platformer I've played. They just feel so good. You're fast and agile, yet always in complete control. The surfing and walking shell portions are just plain exhilarating in the most fun way imaginable. The swimming mechanics are nice too.
Haruka
Ly
Posts: 26748
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:19 pm
Contact:
Tings: 200115

Re: Rayman 2

Post by Haruka »

Adsolution wrote:
Shrooblord wrote:Gameplay-wise, funnily enough, I disagree with everyone: I like the gameplay in Rayman 2 very much. And even though it may not be the most challenging game for me, replaying it makes me relive all the bagillion memories I have of playing the game, every single time. Every time I go through, I remember what I did all those times before, how happy I was with the game back then and how happy I am with it in that moment too.
I didn't really make my stance on the gameplay very clear, but I completely agree with this as well! The platforming mechanics are in my opinion the most beautifully crafted out of any 3D platformer I've played. They just feel so good. You're fast and agile, yet always in complete control. The surfing and walking shell portions are just plain exhilarating in the most fun way imaginable. The swimming mechanics are nice too.
This is other thing that I should have specified better too: although the enemies are not really difficult to defeat, they are fun to fight with! And the platforming itself is one of the best I've seen in a 3D game. Really fun, responsive and smooth. I feature the gameplay in its whole in a real Dreamcast console. I don't think I have experienced such smooth controls before, those 30 minutes I have experienced were breathtaking. :D
Droolie
Musician
Posts: 5344
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:31 pm
Tings: 67840

Re: Rayman 2

Post by Droolie »

Adsolution wrote:
Shrooblord wrote:Gameplay-wise, funnily enough, I disagree with everyone: I like the gameplay in Rayman 2 very much. And even though it may not be the most challenging game for me, replaying it makes me relive all the bagillion memories I have of playing the game, every single time. Every time I go through, I remember what I did all those times before, how happy I was with the game back then and how happy I am with it in that moment too.
I didn't really make my stance on the gameplay very clear, but I completely agree with this as well! The platforming mechanics are in my opinion the most beautifully crafted out of any 3D platformer I've played. They just feel so good. You're fast and agile, yet always in complete control. The surfing and walking shell portions are just plain exhilarating in the most fun way imaginable. The swimming mechanics are nice too.
That is essentially what Brad said in his review, so I also agree with this. He mentions the enemies being too easy - I never had that problem when I played R2 as a kid. I haven't died in the game since I was 12 though, so I guess Brad has a point - although I also breezed through all of the other Rayman games. So I don't agree that this kills the experience, but I agree with them being slightly too easy, and I definitely agree with his praise of the mechanics. Sorry if that wasn't clear before. :)

EDIT ->
Bradandez wrote:I completely disagree on how that atmosphere is more important than gameplay. A game is something that's suppose to let the player take control. Sure, having story and character is a good addition but it shouldn't be the main focus. A game with a shitty story but great gameplay can be forgiven, but a game with shitty gameplay and a great story sadly can't. If it was that way I might as well be watching a movie.
Really odd - I hear this argument a lot. I heard it from Sergio too when I discussed Rayman 3 with him: I said he probably wouldn't enjoy adventure games or RPGs, but he said he did - but only when he was playing one. Apparently, he found Rayman 2 had to be a platformer but nothing else. I just don't understand why people are so rooted in the idea that a videogame can't be more than just a game, and in particular why a platformer has to be solely about platforming. It doesn't make sense - how can one focus on one element of the game instead of the bigger picture the game designer is trying to show?
spiraldoor
Umber
Posts: 12392
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:13 pm
Tings: 156600

Re: Rayman 2

Post by spiraldoor »

Adsolution wrote:Anyway, while Rayman 1 is my favourite of the games (it was very hard for me to pick it over Rayman 2, but I can't deny my inner feelings), Rayman 2 is by far the most cohesive Rayman game to be released, and likely with the best direction behind it. I've never played a game that felt anything like Rayman 2 before or after it, it's unique in my eyes.
I think people often underestimate the essential continuity between the first two Rayman games. (To a lesser extent, this also goes for Rayman 3, but I'll gloss over that for a moment.) Admittedly the specific parallels we can draw are limited – they don't look, sound or play much like each other – yet they feel inexplicably part of the same oeuvre (for want of a less wanky synonym). Their essential sameness is somewhere in the aether – it's an almost spiritual commonality that exists only in the intangible alchemy of each game's components, and which cannot be extrapolated from any of the components themselves.

You could be sliding wildly through a fantastical flying country with wide vistas composed of physical music (and accompanied by themes which seem to suggest a buzzing metropolis), or riding an oversized plum down a tunnel of lava, knowing it leads to a magic mask which will help awaken an ancient god (with hymnal accompaniment)... but the overall emotional sensation is basically the same.

It's a really peculiar set-up that I can't recall encountering in any other series. (Can anyone?) It also instilled in many of us a longing for the wires to cross – for elements of the distinct games to overlap in some way, so that we could see these brilliant, spiritually consistent but otherwise very different versions of the series unified. For a long time, crossovers like the Antitoons in Rayman 2 or the Livingstones on the plum-posts in Rayman 3 were like gold dust – amazing little secret winks confirming that yes, these games were all part of the same grand symphony that so few of us seemed able to see. Of course, when we finally did get the Grand Unified Rayman Universe, and the acknowledgement that these games really did share a single soul, it had the effect of killing off this particular dream of what the series was. Nowadays we tend to blame the execution of Rayman Origins for the fall, but who knows? Maybe some statements, however crucial, are just better left to the fringes.
saerleiya
The First King
Posts: 8093
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:01 pm
Tings: 5782

Re: Rayman 2

Post by saerleiya »

Drolpiraat wrote: EDIT ->
Bradandez wrote:I completely disagree on how that atmosphere is more important than gameplay. A game is something that's suppose to let the player take control. Sure, having story and character is a good addition but it shouldn't be the main focus. A game with a shitty story but great gameplay can be forgiven, but a game with shitty gameplay and a great story sadly can't. If it was that way I might as well be watching a movie.
Really odd - I hear this argument a lot. I heard it from Sergio too when I discussed Rayman 3 with him: I said he probably wouldn't enjoy adventure games or RPGs, but he said he did - but only when he was playing one. Apparently, he found Rayman 2 had to be a platformer but nothing else. I just don't understand why people are so rooted in the idea that a videogame can't be more than just a game, and in particular why a platformer has to be solely about platforming. It doesn't make sense - how can one focus on one element of the game instead of the bigger picture the game designer is trying to show?
Exactly: video games are a form of art, although they are more dedicated to active/dynamic entertainment than some others, like movies or painting, where you are simply watching. However, it doesn't mean that gameplay should have a stronger role than atmosphere, or at least in terms of giving a lot of control to the player, like Brad' mentioned it. Some games reduce the control given to the player to make him enjoy it better. Some games focus so heavily on characters and atmosphere they recruit professional actors to embody the soul of these digital avatars ("Beyond: Two Souls" comes to my mind). And other games focused a lot on imitating facial reactions.

Speaking about Rayman itself, it's actually hard for me to rank every one of them, as they have all something particular for me. Rayman 1 for its very eerie ambiance, his various characters and its incredible difficulty (I haven't been able to finish it yet), Rayman 3 for its gameplay and its almost infinite replayability, Origins for its wacky design and its dynamic tone, Legends for its rythm and its insane amount of worlds.

About Rayman 2, I have been reading all your reviews so far. I found myself being closer to Adsolution's: Rayman 20 feels amazingly balanced between all its aspects. Yes, things can always be better, but this game does everything at the same amount. Nothing is overdone, nothing is underdone when compared to the rest: gameplay, music, characters, ambiance. It also seems very cohesive, and we still have some references to the first one. As many elements are still used in the following games of the series, Rayman 2 has a great place here too. I also feel that now it's like a transition between R1 and R3, speaking about design.

I still love this game, although sometimes the controls (and the enemies) are a bit underwhelming. But the PS1 version with the Ninja gave me a bit of a challenge, and I haven't tried Rayman Revolution yet. So I can't tell eveything I could about Rayman 2 and the Hall of Doors :D.
Pingu
Tribelle
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:33 pm
Location: Lisbon,Portugal
Tings: 280

Re: Rayman 2

Post by Pingu »

Hello I am new here :oops:
Is there something with the fastest times in the rayman races?
Shrooblord
Mr Stone
Posts: 15762
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:07 pm
Location: The Buccaneer MK. II
Tings: 68850

Re: Rayman 2

Post by Shrooblord »

Hello Pingu! Welcome to the RPC!
No, I believe there aren't any topics regarding the fastest times achieved in the Rayman 2 races - I assume you mean the Walks of Power & Life and the end-of-level bonus levels? It may be a nice topic to create to inspire some community competition. Don't be shy - you can create the topic yourself if you want! :mryellow:
Haruka
Ly
Posts: 26748
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:19 pm
Contact:
Tings: 200115

Re: Rayman 2

Post by Haruka »

Pingu wrote:Hello I am new here :oops:
Is there something with the fastest times in the rayman races?
Um membro português :o! Olá e bem-vindo à comunidade Rayman :D!

Do you mean speedruns? I am not really aware about the fastest times in R2, but I'm sure that other members know.
Post Reply