Rayman 3 scores

[PluMGMK]

Sounds like the game was optimised for DirectX then, if the Windows and Xbox versions run fastest. I wonder why. And that new-PC thing could be explained by the new graphics card supporting a new version of DirectX.

[MandM81]

I'm not an expert on these matters, but your explanation does make sense.

I hope we have it veryfied, or falsified, eventually.

[1234]

Well, it's an interesting idea. I remember Jona, a champion of old, once mentioned that the game changed for him when he bought a new PC. As an example he mentioned that on his old PC he could get the Heckler in combo after the Hoodstormer and two Yellow Gems in HH part 2 room 1. On his new computer this was no longer possible due to it being impossible to land enough semi-charged hits on the Heckler while the Shield was up.

He also mentioned the height of the jumps were different. On one PC he could jump and catch the edge of a not-yet-lowered Mushroom in BOM. On the other PC he couldn't.

Oddly enough, I have the same problem with the Heckler in HH part 2. I have seen on video that this Heckler can be comboed on GC and on certain PCs. I'm not sure how it plays on PS2. Maybe it's just "new" PCs and Xbox it doesn't work for?

Good to know, maybe i´ll try the Heckler combo in HH part 2 somewhen and look, whether it´s possible for me.

As for FC part 1, great job getting the Matuvu with the IPG active. That means IPG players on certain platforms can get the full effect of the Matuvus with a Powerup, thus gaining 4600+ points from the last area alone. Outrageous

Thanks!
That are indeedly much points. In the whole first part you could even get about 5900 points more, than without an IPG although you´re playing quite the same combos.

What will you play next to pass 860k?

I think i´ll have to pass 860k in two steps. The next improvement i´ll do in SBTC. I´ve finished part 1 already with ~20,5k and in some days i´ll continue with part 2. In order to reach 860k, i´d have to finish this level with 111996 points and that is probably far too hard, so i´ll (hopefully) improve the LS after that.

As for LS: Do you have some tips for the matuvu in the shoe combo?
Immediately after the short cinematics, i run straight, without any curves, to the point from where you can take the matuvu, turn left and press the strafe button, the look mode button and the zoom button at the same time, but i´m still approximately 0,5 sec too late, and that´s quite a long time in combos.
My problem is, that i have no idea, how i could improve that. What am i doing wrong?

[RibShark]

He also mentioned the height of the jumps were different. On one PC he could jump and catch the edge of a not-yet-lowered Mushroom in BOM. On the other PC he couldn't.

Oddly enough, I have the same problem with the Heckler in HH part 2. I have seen on video that this Heckler can be comboed on GC and on certain PCs. I'm not sure how it plays on PS2. Maybe it's just "new" PCs and Xbox it doesn't work for?

I wonder if it's the same mechanism that causes the IPG Look Mode not to work on Xbox and "new" PCs?

I have no idea, but it would be interesting to find out.

While making the widescreen patch I found a value in the executable which adjusts the game speed. An interesting thing I noted was that the faster the game was running, the higher Rayman jumped. Lowering the value caused Rayman to jump extremely low, while raising the value caused him to jump higher.

So my theory is that the faster the game is running (better PCs might help with this), the higher Rayman can jump. It is worth noting that many speedruns were recently invalidated because they were using DxWnd which for some reason caused the game to run faster, so maybe this will also affect the jump height.

[Maz]

As for LS: Do you have some tips for the matuvu in the shoe combo?
Immediately after the short cinematics, i run straight, without any curves, to the point from where you can take the matuvu, turn left and press the strafe button, the look mode button and the zoom button at the same time, but i´m still approximately 0,5 sec too late, and that´s quite a long time in combos.
My problem is, that i have no idea, how i could improve that. What am i doing wrong

First of all, congratulations on your new Score, very impressive! Seems like I've got my work cut out for me once I got some spare time.

As for your question; it's pretty much like this: You have exactly one spot to make this work. One too many steps forward, and you'll lose those 0.5 seconds as you said; be one step short of hitting said spot, and the foot of the statue will be in the way of getting the Matuvu; one step too far to the left, and you won't reach the cave on time; one step too far to the right, and you'll be too far away to get the Matuvu. Going by my personal experience, there's not many tips to be given here - it's just a painful amount of restarts until you actually get it once.
The one thing I could recommend would be to test out where that spot is, remember the exact location, and then practise hitting that place during the actual Combo. That won't give you a high success rate either, but it should improve your chances at least a little bit.

Good luck, and... well, I guess "Have fun!" would be inappropriate for LS.

[MandM81]

While making the widescreen patch I found a value in the executable which adjusts the game speed. An interesting thing I noted was that the faster the game was running, the higher Rayman jumped. Lowering the value caused Rayman to jump extremely low, while raising the value caused him to jump higher.

So my theory is that the faster the game is running (better PCs might help with this), the higher Rayman can jump. It is worth noting that many speedruns were recently invalidated because they were using DxWnd which for some reason caused the game to run faster, so maybe this will also affect the jump height.

It's interesting you were able to adjust a parameter, here the game speed, and actually see the effects it had on the game. Obviously the jumping height is dependent on the game speed. I wonder if the same is true for the examples mentioned earlier, namely the Shield time for the Heckler and the more exotic example of the manipulation of IPG Look Mode.

If the successful manipulation of the IPG Look Mode is game speed dependent, it would certainly explain why it doesn't work for the Xbox, as the game speed on the Xbox platform is high.

Ribshark, do you have any way to test the IPG Look Mode manipulation for different values of the game speed?

Also, have you discovered other changes than jump heights when you changed the game speed?

That are indeedly much points. In the whole first part you could even get about 5900 points more, than without an IPG although you´re playing quite the same combos.

Yeah, thinking about it makes me

As for LS: Do you have some tips for the matuvu in the shoe combo?
Immediately after the short cinematics, i run straight, without any curves, to the point from where you can take the matuvu, turn left and press the strafe button, the look mode button and the zoom button at the same time, but i´m still approximately 0,5 sec too late, and that´s quite a long time in combos.
My problem is, that i have no idea, how i could improve that. What am i doing wrong?

Well, Maz explained it very well. One has to find THE right spot from where to get the Matuvu, and there is only one spot within a very narrow margin of error where you do that and reach the first Yellow Gem in the secret room on time.

Also, I'm sure you have noticed, Rayman will be in different positions each time after killing the Shoe. It's important this position is as close to the spot mentioned before as possible. A good gaming strategy is to anethetize the area of the brain that causes and amplifies anger and frustration and just keep repeating and restarting the game until you get it right.

[1234]

First of all, congratulations on your new Score, very impressive! Seems like I've got my work cut out for me once I got some spare time.

Thanks, you´ll have to catch up a little bit, but i´m sure you´ll beat my current score soon, when you get some free time.

Thank you also Maz and MandM for your help. Now i know, that i´ve probably only choosen the wrong spot.
I see, this combo will cause me lots of restarts...but until now i wasn´t frustrated or angry because of this combo.

[Dark_Shadow]

Wow !

I went here many months ago and.... a lot of new combos and glitchs were still found!? And new players too ! I never saw 1234 and Maz

Last time I went here, MandM81 was 3rd on the Hall of Fame when DTUCC and Cut beat him ^^ Nice to see you on the first place again MandM and yeahh Cut, a PC player on the 2nd place !

[Cut]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buBp-vj ... e=youtu.be
something i had in mind a few weeks ago. this were my first 2 minutes of rayman 3 of the last past months so no surprise that i'm playing like a moron here^^ but the idea should be pretty clear and it's an improvement of 500 points. everything i fail in this video has alreay proven to be possible so i'm not worried that this whole thing couldn't be doable. just for reference: this is our old way of how to play this area http://youtu.be/hleyHdp2YpI (6 Feb 2014)

(fun fact: mandm and we were playing completely different combos in this area but both are worth the exact same amount of points = 8160).

[Maz]

Thanks for sharing, cool stuff!

I've got something to share as well; I was a bit sceptical at first, but seeing how you guys share your findings with everyone else, I thought we may turn this into some kind of "Community Project"?

Either way, the thing I'm talking about is this SJ, which would potentially allow a new maximum in HH; namely by enableing players to equip the Lockjaw, repeatitively using the SJ, getting all the Points in this Part, and then using an improved version of the Matuvu-Combo to get a Score higher than 109.209 (in the video, I took the Green Gem, just because). MandM and I have done first calculations, and it seems like Console-Players can theoretically beat their Maximum when almost perfectly exploiting the Lum-Glitch. I don't have a lot of time for R3 at the moment, but basically, I was working on 3 things there:

1.) A new Maximum for PC-Players as well.
2.) A way to get the Console-Maximum without having to rely too heavily on the Lum-Glitch.
3.) In lights of 1 and 2, a way to reach the secret room in Part 3 (which turned out a lot harder than expected).

As I said, I was a bit hestitant about this at first, but it would be really cool if we could make this happen.

That's all for now.

[Cut]

I would participate in a community project. For science!

That HH stuff sounds really interesting, I guess I would need more information on that to fully understand what you guys are planning to do. Several months ago, DTUCC looked for an IPG in HH part 1 and found a promising softlock but it seems that this is a road to nowhere. Since then we haven't touched HH.

In CF we could get a theoretical max score of 123.269 right now (we also have the points now, thank's to my combo and thank's to your version of the Warehouse Combo in CF part 3 which is fucking hell of a creation). In March and April i was working on extending the final combo in CF3 to a value of 24.260 (meaning a max score of 124.509) but I couldn't bring it to work. But most likely i was just too stupid and it's possible. Unfortunately, we don't have enough points on total by now for 124k.

I also worked on the Desert of the Knaaren.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYTlKBtRzjE First matuvu for 1500 in combo. Pretty obvious
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHO_6qHGb0I something more interesting. There could be a theoretical 6000-combo by doing this glitch as optimally as possible and taking 5 yellow gems before in combo. This theoretical 6000 combo would be the ultimate key to a new maximum score in DOTK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybDjTu8t7ls I love this! unfortunately the second cage doesn't drop all of his gems (I guess there is a maximum value of simultaneously "expring" gems in this game.). The order I shoot the rockets might seem weird to people but if you do it like this you get the most gems out of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ2gwm4MM5Y Easy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSgBPFJFuFk After this combo you are able to get the Lockjaw from the next room. I tried to combo both Lavamatrix with the 5 remaining gems with the Lockjaw but I never came to record it. Oh, and you have to kill the Hoodgarde to make the Lockjaw appear in the next room, that's why i play this way and not immediately take it

Oh yeah, and just for comparison: our CF stuff
http://youtu.be/Ayqx4_JgiqM 23 Nov 2013. you have to break the cage behind the door by Superjumping into the chamber
http://youtu.be/xuDb4O6KeWQ 9 Dec 2013. Sorry for the terrible music^^
http://youtu.be/UY6FBflJJGU 22 Apr 2014. This route allows it to get the gems without a Powerup but with a x5 multiplier. terrible
http://youtu.be/JRQj7sSPvpI 9 Dec 2013. Stuff
http://youtu.be/1JaVENm0CkI 11 Dec 2013. Improved by you guys
http://youtu.be/dA0x-SXDdaE 13 Dec 2013. This is kinda hard to do but really interesting because it allows you to kill one hoodlum twice. Crazy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sM2JzoJ ... e=youtu.be Thanks to DTUCC! We already improved this version, after killing the first Hoodlum inside the Stronghold (?) we first take the 3 yellow and 1 red gems in the little cave and then kill the 2nd Hoodlum. But you'll figure out that it's really easy and i didn't feel like recording a new video for that. Now the point is, when you think about this version you'll realize that we take the first tribelle for only 500 points and also outside of this combo. So what I wanted to do: Kill the first Hoodlum after taking the gems from the piggybank behind the wooden door, run into the Tribelle cave, take the 2nd gem, take the tribelle, take the first gem, roll out of the cage and kill another hoodlum. Until today I haven't managed to do that because the 2nd hoodlum runs around the Mushroom and gets stuck on the door you just openend with the lever. The problem is: when I don't open the door to the Stronghold, it's impossible to kill the Hoodboom later in the combo since you don't get to aim at him at all! So this is really troubled...

Oh yes, and CF part 1. The IPG combos!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMYWaGcS ... e=youtu.be double Hoodlum shenanigans, weee!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOMJnlI ... e=youtu.be this is the worst shit mankind ever has created. Thanks to DTUCC!

Also special Thanks to Mountain Goat, sfn42 for the inspiration and creativity for many of these combos. And credits go to MandM for my most recent combo in my last post since he had the idea to combine the Slapdash with the gems.

So yeah

[MandM81]

Nice to see you on the first place again MandM

Thanks!

Nice to see some videos from the other side

Just a few comments.

CF part 2: In my first versions of the Valley combos I also chose to take the Matuvu (through the massive mountainside!!!) before the Tribelle. But as Cut mentions, one can get the same amount of points, and in an easier way.

CF part 1: The last area played with the IPG. There is an easier and more profitable way of playing this combo. It doesn't seem to work for Xbox (and fast computers???) because the IPG Look Mode seemingly can't be manipulated. But for some platforms, where the IPG Look Mode is only slightly hard to manipulate, this should work:

1. Break the Pig near the usual entrance. Take the gems and fall down to continue the combo with the Gem under the scaffolding.
2. Take the first Yellow Gem above the Pig. Roll off the extreme edge and take the second Yellow Gem on the way.
3. Turn around when you're at the foot of the Bridge and break the Pig.
4. Cross the Bridge quickly and kill first Hoodblaster at the other end of the Bridge with one hit (this is the tricky part of the combo).
5. Take the Yellow Gems in the tent on the left and head out. Break the Pig with the Red Gem inside.
6. Run quickly to the Pigs at the other end and break them to collect the Gems.
7. Kill the Hoodblaster on the nearby Box and head for the Red Gem.
8. Take the Red Gem and kill the nearby Hoodblaster.
9. Kill the last Hoodblaster from a position as near to the Bridge as possible.
10. Cross the Bridge and manipulate the IPG Look Mode to zoom in on the Matuvu.

It's worth noting that, except for the first Hoodblaster, everything that counts more that 10 basic points has an item number higher than 20.

Also, this version allows for time to manipulate the IPG Look Mode.

The combo: PYYYY|YYPHY|YYYPP|PYYYY|YYHRHHM

The combo is worth 7.340 points and a total of 9.360 points for this area.

[Cut]

Thanks for this idea!

As you may have noticed, the final Combo in CF3 is my biggest issue. I just watched your version of this combo, which is worth 22.600 combo points but includes the first tribelle for 2500 while our combo is worth 23.020 points but doesn't include the first tribelle at all (we take it for 500, meaning 2000 less, before). I assume that your way of playing CF 3 will result in more points in total although your final combo is a little smaller (right now we can get maximum 49.830 out of CF3) which is really interesting since even if I manage to include the first tribelle into our combo for a maximum score of 124.509 (combo would be worth 24.260), we would still lose some points in total. Also this double Hoodlum thingy is really interesting since it just gives you more possibilites and one additional extra long hoodlum combo (our combo wouldn't even be possible without it). I really like how you guys take the 1st tribelle for 2500 points in combo but unfortunately you have to miss out on many gems. By now I couldn't find a way to combine the benefits of our versions. Maybe that could be a goal in CF!

EDIT:
Okay, I just recalculated everything and added some of your improvements. Right now we can get a theoretical Maximum of 123.990 points and a "real" maximum of 123.269 points.

Part 1 is worth 22.500 points
Part 2 is worth 51.240 points (73.740 in total)
Part 3 is worth 50.250 points (123.990 in total)

EDIT2:
And I made a mistake with my tribelle idea. Gosh, I haven't been in CF part 3 for so long... But it doesn't matter, by now it's just a vague idea anyway

EDIT3:
Ok, I remember my tribelle-idea now correctly. You just take it for 1000 points in combo (because you can't take more elements before, otherwise the green gem would be element no. 17) but 1000 is more than not at all. The combo is actually worth 24.260 and Part 3 in total would be worth 50.890 (124.620).

[MandM81]

No, we haven't come across the double Hoodlum incident. How many other Hoodlums are there in CF

I think we have to rework part 3 to include this extra Hoodblaster. Like you I have taken a few months away from the game. I will re-emerge as an active player in December. I think it would be cool to nail this part. I'm game.

[Cut]

That sounds awesome! To make it complete, this is the idea I had in mind.

1. Activate the lever and open the piggybank behind the wooden door in combo. Let the combo run out.
2. Take the 6 yellow gems and kill the Double Hoodlum for the first time.
3. Jump into the Tribelle-Cave, take the 2nd yellow gem, then the Tribelle, then the first yellow gem, roll out and kill the Hoodblaster near the mushroom in combo. THIS is the part I can't bring to work since the hoodblaster runs around the mushroom and get's stuck at the stupid door which means he is too far away to shoot him.
4. Kill the Hoodlum dropping the Vortex, screw the Mushroom and take the Lockjaw. Kill the Double Hoodlum for the second time.
5. Take the green gem as the 15th element, roll to the piggybanks, take both and the 3 yellow gems in the water.
6. Kill the Hoodlum as late as possible and run to the gems in the cave. Immediately turn around to kill the second Hoodlum outside.
7. Continue as in DTUCC's video.
Combo value: 31.480 points in total, 24.260 combo-points.

Another problem with this could be the duration of the Lockjaw, as you already have seen in DTUCC's video, it's on his last bar when he takes the tribelle and including the gems in the cave could really make this a huge timing problem.

But besides that, we also have Maz with the HH and me with the DOTK so enough stuff to care about. I'm hyped!

[MandM81]

We have experimented a bit with connecting the Hoodblaster near the Mushroom with the Yellow Gem fra the Tribelle Cave. We discarded it at the time, but maybe it can be made to work to our advantage?

I guess it's impossible to continue the combo without the Slapdash, or re-arrange the combo to save the Slapdash? The Slapdash could save the Tribelle in the Cave for 2.500 points in the end. And if you save the extra Hoodblaster until after the Slapdash (if possible) then you'll get 600 extra points from him as well. It's what I would work on immediately, that said without opening the game of course.

[Cut]

Actually I never tried to leave out the Slapdash. Mainly because I never had a reason to. Theretically you should have the full 6 second Hoodlum combo after the cutscene is other, maybe we're lucky and that's enough to save the Slapdash for later. But I'll have to look into the game for that so maybe I can deliver some results soon.

[MandM81]

Just to clarify, I was thinking the end of the combo like this:

Electrocute the Hoodboom as on the video. Strafe towards the Tribelle and take it. Quickly roll off the edge to kill the Slapdash on time. Enter the first area to kill the extra Hoodblaster (if necessary renew the Vortex before doing so). Head for the boxes leading to the Tribelle Cave and take this Tribelle.

You lose the four Yellow Gems on the upper floor near the Tribelle, but it should be worth it, also considering the Lockjaw time frame.

The question now is, can the Slapdash be saved for later?

I'm looking forward to hearing what you get out of this.

[Cut]

The problem is that the Hoodlums inside the Stronghold (is it called that?) only spawn when the hoodlums before are all dead so I highly assume that the Double Hoodlum has to be completely dead too! We also need him to be able to reload the Lockjaw inbetween (you could use the hook to get on top of the mushroom, that's a little bit tricky but you should have enough combo time). I just tried to leave out the Slapdash, the main problem is that the cutscene starts ~1/2 second after you killed the Hoodlum, means this combo time is already lost. Also the position combined with the camera angle after the cutscene is really terrible to get to the upper level as quick as possible, means right now I'm not very confident. If I could make that work, that would be almost perfect, the combo would be worth 25.320 points and we would win ~1.100 points. Maybe I get lucky

EDIT:
Ok, I'm pretty sure that you can't just simply leave out the Slapdash for later. But when you're jumping to the upper platform, you can open the front piggybank below to keep the combo alive. That would mean that we had to lose another 360 points and continueing the combo after the green gem would be a little harder since we would have to open only the rear piggybank but that seems at least doable and it still would be a plus of 700 points. That could work out, I'll try that a little (EDIT2: much) harder. But another problem could be killing the Slapdash in combo since you have to kill the Hoodboom pretty early and taking the Tribelle takes time. The point is, if there are more than 4 seconds between killing the Hoodboom and taking the Tribelle we could take the 4 yellow gems on the upper level again since we wouldn't benefit from the longer Hoodboom-combo-time anyway. But this is theoretical talk.

[MandM81]

Ok, I guess I have to open the game before I can make qualified suggestions.

What is the nature of this extra Hoodblaster? I mean, exactly what is it that makes him double up, so to speak? Is it due to landing next to him during the cinematic from the Switch?

He's obviously tied to the original if he has to be killed in order to make the Hoodlums inside the stronghold (yeah I guess you can use that word) appear.