Rayman Pirate-Community

Fairy-Hole-Combo with the first Fairy for 180 Points

Still not easy, but at least it's far from the hardest Non-RNG-dependent Combo in the game; connecting the fifth Hedgehog with the Mushroom is pretty much the only hard part here.

Also, something in TOTL got in my way, but now that that's over and done with, the walkthrough for FC should be pretty much finished. Is there any way to send it to you, Cut?

Cool video! As you might have seen, the majority of the combo manager is done and the first released version can be tested, so I'll have more time to write and play now

So next will be a video series explaining how to play HH1 with the IPG, and then I'm going to start with the written walkthrough for the wiki.
@Maz, I'll send you a PM with my e-mail if that's fine.

You got mail!

BTW Cut, I played around in HH1 for a bit... didn't you say that the game would crash if you entered the warehouse before you cleared the first room? I tried the IPG today and I could enter the warehouse from above without doing anything in the first room just fine. I entered the warehouse, killed all the Hoodlums, killed the Hoodlums in the first area, then tried going back into the warehouse to see if the game would crash then but alas, nothing happened. I'm not sure if that changes how you play this part with the IPG, but I thought I'd just let you know. I even made a video which I can upload if needed.

Oh yeah, before I forget to mention that: I tried entering the warehouse through the regular entrance afterwards but the game softlocked, so you can't do that.

Edit: Maybe now you could use the Green-Gem-Combo I was talking about? You could weaken the Hoodboom in the warehouse, break the Door, kill the Hoodboom with a curved shot and convert the Lum, then run into the other room and kill the Hoodoo, then the Hoodlock, then the Hoodblaster and then you just go back to the first room and finish off the Hoodblaster there as late as possible, collect the 2 Yellow Gems on the boxes, run like hell towards the box next to the Green Gem to get the Yellow Gem on there, get the Green Gem, run towards the Grim Keeper, convert the Black Lum from the Hoodblaster, kill the Grim Keeper, get the Matuvu, convert the Black Lum and collect the Red Gems. Didn't test this myself but going by what I saw on your stream, this might be very doable.

D Hb B Ho B|Hl B Hb B Hb|Y Y Y G B|Gk Ma B R R|R

Unfortunately you'd have to play the hard version of your Matuvu-Tribelle-Combo in the warehouse because the Hoodboom would be gone, but who knows, it might win a nice amount of Points.

Maz wrote:BTW Cut, I played around in HH1 for a bit... didn't you say that the game would crash if you entered the warehouse before you cleared the first room? I tried the IPG today and I could enter the warehouse from above without doing anything in the first room just fine. I entered the warehouse, killed all the Hoodlums, killed the Hoodlums in the first area, then tried going back into the warehouse to see if the game would crash then but alas, nothing happened. I'm not sure if that changes how you play this part with the IPG, but I thought I'd just let you know. I even made a video which I can upload if needed.

Actually the game crash is a little weird, but I know what you mean. Mountain Goat found this too, and my IPG-videos of HH1 will make use of exactly this, even though the combo will be a little bit different. Basically, it's possible to trigger the cutscene in the last room of HH1, which will cause Globox to be gone from the first room, and that allows you to combine the secret room with the Green Gem Combo at the end

As said, videos will follow, 3/5 have been recorded already.

Also guys: don't forget to test the first version of the Combo Manager: viewtopic.php?t=25006
Feedback is very important, because any changes made to the database-mechanism will corrupt old database-files. So I want to troubleshoot within the first days to solve any problems that might occur in the future

Cool tool Cut!

I tested it and it works really great. I have still a few questions / notes:

1.) When you add a combo to the Database, then you can also enter a video link. Where do I find the link afterwards? When I doubleklick on the combo, then a window will appear with a summary of that combo, but the link isn't there.

2.) A small improvement suggestion: If you want to include e.g. a wooden door, then you have to rightklick on the respective button a few times. In case it's easy and quick to change, you could include an arrow on the right side of each point-button so that you can choose the wanted item out of a list.
Then you could also include the other missing items:
Dwarf, Fairy Hole (100 points), Portrait, Shoe, Crown, Wall (LS2), Snowman, the thing in HH5, Podocrock, Fish, hoodflyer (TOTL3), the horrible machine (100 points)
Of course that's not important at all, so there's really no need to change it. Only if it could be implemented within a short time, then you could think, whether you want to do that.

I also have some questions concerning the Wiki articles we want to create:

1.) How detailed do you want to describe the combos? I mean, for example the beginning of the first combo in LOTLD part 1 is actually quite complicated, so a detailed description would sound like: "[...] Run on the path which leads towards the next area, take the second, fourth and the fifth gem and pass the rest. [...] Once you've entered the first area again, continue with the gems on the left side. Take the second, third and fifth gem, then [...]"
When I continue like that until the combo ends, then that would be an extremely long text, plus it'd sound quite complicated. However for some combos we even don't have any videos, so such a description actually would be necessary. Furthermore that's the best way to include some small tips.
So how do we want to deal with it?

2.) I actually think it might be nice to include a table which lists the maximum for each level and the optimal score in the game, but it doesn't really fit in any of the suggested articles. Should we create an own article for something like that or do you think it's unnecessary? It's just that we should name the best possible score somewhere imo.

1234 wrote:1.) When you add a combo to the Database, then you can also enter a video link. Where do I find the link afterwards? When I doubleklick on the combo, then a window will appear with a summary of that combo, but the link isn't there.

Will be implemented in the next and final version, that will release either this evenening or tomorrow.

1234 wrote:2.) A small improvement suggestion: If you want to include e.g. a wooden door, then you have to rightklick on the respective button a few times. In case it's easy and quick to change, you could include an arrow on the right side of each point-button so that you can choose the wanted item out of a list.

I actually like this better, yeah.

1234 wrote:Then you could also include the other missing items:
Dwarf, Fairy Hole (100 points), Portrait, Shoe, Crown, Wall (LS2), Snowman, the thing in HH5, Podocrock, Fish, hoodflyer (TOTL3), the horrible machine (100 points)
Of course that's not important at all, so there's really no need to change it. Only if it could be implemented within a short time, then you could think, whether you want to do that.

Quick note: there's already the feature to add your custom caption with the middle mouse button
It's not very obvious or intuitive though, which is why there is going to be a help-section also.

1234 wrote:1.) How detailed do you want to describe the combos? I mean, for example the beginning of the first combo in LOTLD part 1 is actually quite complicated, so a detailed description would sound like: "[...] Run on the path which leads towards the next area, take the second, fourth and the fifth gem and pass the rest. [...] Once you've entered the first area again, continue with the gems on the left side. Take the second, third and fifth gem, then [...]"
When I continue like that until the combo ends, then that would be an extremely long text, plus it'd sound quite complicated. However for some combos we even don't have any videos, so such a description actually would be necessary. Furthermore that's the best way to include some small tips.
So how do we want to deal with it?

I think we should adapt the descriptions to the complexity of the used techniques in this combo. Especially in combos like the big one in LOTLD1, I wouldn't waste too much text just to explain the path of where to go IMO. I'd try to make that as short as possible (which is why we should have videos for everything optimally) and focus on the spots that produce the most errors or ar the hardest to pull of.

1234 wrote:2.) I actually think it might be nice to include a table which lists the maximum for each level and the optimal score in the game, but it doesn't really fit in any of the suggested articles. Should we create an own article for something like that or do you think it's unnecessary? It's just that we should name the best possible score somewhere imo.

For each level, this would fit into the "overview"-section at the beginning of every level. We can separate this though and just make an own article for this as well.

1234 wrote:Originally I also wanted to create a list, which shows the amount of each kind of item in the levels and in the game, since it might be interesting to e.g. know the amount of yellow gems in the game. However it's not really relevant for scoring, so it'll be ok for me, if we don't include that.

This can still be included in the wiki though, for example the locations of all Tribelles could be found in the Tribelle article.

So, just to summarize, the goal is to have:

• A main article about the scoring system
• A list of glitches
• Two solutions per level (still being discussed)

What else?

I'd suggest to just create these pages for now, so that we can start working on them. Trying different formats and designs, to see whether there is the necessity of more pages in the future. Maz has already finished an FC-walkthrough and I've started with the HH-IPG-one, so I think we should just start from here.

By the way Cut, what do you want to do about the videos? I've started writing on No-Glitch-CF and it just now dawned on me that there's still a bunch of super hard Combos that we don't have any footage on. We're talking the ultimate Hoodblaster-Combo in Part 1, the retarded version of the Tribelle-Combo and the ultimate Hoodcamp-Combo in Part 2 and the final Combo in Part 3 here, as well as the ultimate Matuvu-Combo in that Part being just a non-successful attempt. And that's only CF; there's a bunch of other incredibly hard Combos in levels like SBTC and/or TOTL which we would probably spent MONTHS (or worse) on just to try getting video footage.

I mean sure, we can skip that for now but if we want this walkthrough to be actually complete in the way that you described it, I guess we'll have to get around to that at some point in the future...

Edit: Oh, I almost forgot to say ask: Congratulations on your new Score 1234! What level(s) did you improve?

Cut wrote:For each level, this would fit into the "overview"-section at the beginning of every level. We can separate this though and just make an own article for this as well.

The maximum for each level would fit into the overviews of the walkthroughs, but I think the maximum score for the game, i.e. 9xx.xxx, maybe wouldn't. Of course one could simply calculate the sum of the nine maxima himself / herself, so it's not really important, but imo we could / should still include the optimal game score in an article. Maybe we can decide about it later once the walkthroughs will be written.

Hunchman801 wrote:This can still be included in the wiki though, for example the locations of all Tribelles could be found in the Tribelle article.

I can make a list then.

Maz wrote:By the way Cut, what do you want to do about the videos? I've started writing on No-Glitch-CF and it just now dawned on me that there's still a bunch of super hard Combos that we don't have any footage on.

Maybe we should at first record some attempts for the extremely hard combos and, if possible, re-record them somewhen else. I mean I don't think that anyone will ever succeed in e.g. the final combo in LOTLD3 in one try (at least not in the near future). So we could divide such combos into some parts, record successful attempts of these parts and then make one video out of this. I mean it's definitely better than nothing and we can always record a better version later on.

Maz wrote:Oh, I almost forgot to say ask: Congratulations on your new Score 1234! What level(s) did you improve?

Thank you! Actually it's nothing special. I improved LS to ~42k. I even didn't get the matuvu in part 3 for 250 points, because I knew that I need to replay this level anyway. Still, I'm coming closer to 870k.

By the way, I recorded the two green gems combo in DOTK 7 and, since I couldn't find a successful video of it yet, how to take the two hidden gems in BOM 3.

Cut wrote:I'd suggest to just create these pages for now, so that we can start working on them. Trying different formats and designs, to see whether there is the necessity of more pages in the future. Maz has already finished an FC-walkthrough and I've started with the HH-IPG-one, so I think we should just start from here.

Good. There's already a main page called Rayman 3 scoring system, all general information can go there. I will move the list of glitches to a standalone article and post the link here very soon.

As for solutions, which ones are we starting with? I will create the pages for you guys.

I updated the Combo Manager: viewtopic.php?t=25006
Sorry for being late, I ended up having much more work hours this week than expected (the pros and cons of working on a fee-basis lol).

Hunchman801 wrote:As for solutions, which ones are we starting with? I will create the pages for you guys.

Thank you very much Hunchman, that's awesome.

Since the Combo Manager now supports fully functional Databases, I'd suggest to create an unversial RPC-database that contains all the combos from all the walkthroughs, which could be offered for download in the Wiki. That way, everybody can save all combos including all video links on this computer. Since this would require a lot of work, the next version will include Hotkeys for everything, which allow you to create new combos very fast with your keyboard. Thanks to the Merge-Feature, this work also has not to be done by one single person. Everybody can just take care of his desired levels, and as soon as everbody is done, we can merge all the combos into one big database!

1234 wrote:The maximum for each level would fit into the overviews of the walkthroughs, but I think the maximum score for the game, i.e. 9xx.xxx, maybe wouldn't. Of course one could simply calculate the sum of the nine maxima himself / herself, so it's not really important, but imo we could / should still include the optimal game score in an article. Maybe we can decide about it later once the walkthroughs will be written.

That's exactly what I'm thinking as well. Let's just try some things and mess with some stuff, and we'll find out what fits best automatically after some time.

Maz wrote:By the way Cut, what do you want to do about the videos? I've started writing on No-Glitch-CF and it just now dawned on me that there's still a bunch of super hard Combos that we don't have any footage on. We're talking the ultimate Hoodblaster-Combo in Part 1, the retarded version of the Tribelle-Combo and the ultimate Hoodcamp-Combo in Part 2 and the final Combo in Part 3 here, as well as the ultimate Matuvu-Combo in that Part being just a non-successful attempt. And that's only CF; there's a bunch of other incredibly hard Combos in levels like SBTC and/or TOTL which we would probably spent MONTHS (or worse) on just to try getting video footage.

I mean sure, we can skip that for now but if we want this walkthrough to be actually complete in the way that you described it, I guess we'll have to get around to that at some point in the future...

Well for me, the point of a video is to show off techniques that are much better to visualize in a video than in written form, and to achieve that, a combo-video does not have to show a successful attempt. I'd just go with your personal judgement, if you feel that there is a very hard combo where it's unlikely to record a successful video in a reasonable amount of time, but it's also so complicated that you would like to show off some parts of it in a video, then just record an attempted version of it and that should be fine in all honesty.

Sorry for the long post. Most of it are questions / issues concerning the calculation of the amount of items in the game.

@Cut: Unfortunately I have some problems opening the new version of the Combo Manager. When I try to open it, a message appears saying that the program doesn't work any more and whether I want to sent some information to MS. Do you have an idea how to solve it?
Anyway, the new features sound really good!

By the way, I can start writing the solution for LOTLD, but it'd be great if I could see a finished solution for another level before (e.g. the one from Maz), because, as I said, I want to keep the style of it and so on. Maybe we can include the FC-walkthrough in the Wiki, as soon as Hunch creates the sites? Or, if it's no trouble, someone could send me the walkthrough (or a part of it) per PM?

@Hunchman801: I finished counting the items, so if you want, it can be included in the Wiki. I just don't know, where to put it.
However I can't guarantee that I didn't miscalculate; I can only hope that I didn't.

Also there are few issues, which have to be solved before. Do anyone know how to deal with it?

1.) In HH 4 in the boss fight, either hoodstyler, hoodstormer or hoodbooms can appear, so it's impossible to say how many of these hoodlums are in the game, you can only name a interval like: hoodstyler: [3-13]. Yet I didn't include any of these hoodlums in my calculations.
2.) In TOTL 3, as far as I know, the PC-version has two hoodflyer less than e.g. the X-Box version. I don't know about the other versions. Yet I didn't include the 2 extra hoodflyer in my calculations.
3.) In TOTL 5 in the last phase of the boss fight there will appear lots of hoodblaster. However some of them disappear aleady after a short time, so it's really hard to count them, even when you make a screenshot. Yet I didn't include them in my calculations.

There are also some other problematic parts, which I want to mention. If anyone of you disagrees or has a better solution, please let me know:

1.) I counted only items, which give you points (e.g. I didn't count the first black lum in DOTK 6 or André in TOTL 5).
2.) When an item gives you points more than just one time, then it's still only 1 item (e.g. the shoe; razoff in BOM 5 and 6; the horrible machine; the double hoodblaster in CF 1 and 3; the double hoodboom in CF 3 (I think it is a double hoodboom, is it?); the respawning gem in CF 6; the lever in LOTLD 3).
Exceptions are enemies, who appear in different parts (e.g. razoff and reflux count as two "items").
3.) I think I've read somewhere that there is an extra slapdash in FC 3 in some versions. I didn't count this slapdash.
4.) In FC 4 there are some fairy holes, but only the first 4 will give you points, so I counted only these 4.
5.) In BOM 2 there is a yellow gem under the big tree. You can't take it by usual means, but I did still count it.
6.) I counted the two hidden gems in BOM 3.
7.) In BOM 3 you can enter the areas from BOM 4 and the other way round. There you'll also find some gems, which the developers have left for some reason. I didn't count these gems twice.
8.) In BOM 3, in the cutscene, three muddibogs are fighting a hoodblaster. I counted all 4 enemies.
9.) In BOM 4 the normal hoodblaster on the boat can change into a shielded hoodblaster. I still counted him as a normal hoodblaster.
10.) I counted a normal snowman as two items, the head and the base.
11.) I didn't count any kickflips.
12.) In SBTC 3 I didn't count the black lums from the hoodlocks (if they appear at all).
13.) In HH 5 I counted the platform, which gives you 10 points, as an item. I just don't know how to call it, I mean "platform" is a little bit too vague, is it?

As I said, if anyone would do something differently, please tell me.

Btw, is anyone up for a small guessing game? I'd be interested to see how accurate you'll estimate the amount of items. So, I'll ask a few questions and you can have a guess. If noone's interested, I'll simply post the answers on the next day.

Considering the notes above, how many ...
1.) items are in the game?
2.) yellow gems are in the game?
3.) red gems are in the game?
4.) piggybanks are in the game?
5.) mushrooms are in the game?
6.) hoodblaster are in the game?
7.) enemies are in the game (without the bosses and without the hoodflyer)?
8.) yellow gems are in the level, which has the most of them and what level is it?
8.) red gems are in the level, which has the most of them and what level is it? [Edit: Sorry, I messed up the numeration ]
9.) hoodblaster are in the level, which has the most of them and what level is it?
10.) yellow gems are in the part, which has the most of them and what part is it?

I don't have a "real" price, but I can donate 25 tings for every most accurate answer.

1234 wrote:@Cut: Unfortunately I have some problems opening the new version of the Combo Manager. When I try to open it, a message appears saying that the program doesn't work any more and whether I want to sent some information to MS. Do you have an idea how to solve it?
Anyway, the new features sound really good!

Oh god, that is not supposed to happen at all. I haven't encountered this issue on my machine obviously. Does the message contain any information that you can send to me? Because without that, I doubt that I can solve your issues

In the details you can read following:

Files, which can help to describe the problem: [freely translated from german]
C:\Users\1234\AppData\Local\Temp\WEREE3.tmp.WERInternalMetadata.xml
C:\Users\1234\AppData\Local\Temp\WER1686.tmp.appcompat.txt
C:\Users\1234\AppData\Local\Temp\WER1907.tmp.mdmp
[the bold marked numbers will be different when I try to open the program again]

I actually don't know what this files contain, do you?
Also when I opened the path, I couldn't see these files anywhere, so I can't even send them to you.

If it'd help I could make a screenshot of this error message.

I'll still try messing around with this problem yet, maybe I'll find something.

A snapshot of the error-message would be great. I assume you did not have any trouble with the older version of the program? And I also assume, that you're not using Windows XP anymore (I mean, I doubt it but just to be safe I have to ask )? Because the new version uses VB.net libraries that are only available on Windows Vista and newer.

The AppData-file is usually invisible to an instance of the explorer without Administrator-rights. Try to open %appdata% in the explorer (just insert this and press Return), that should send you to AppData/Roaming. From there, you can go back to AppData and then to AppData/Local

All previous versions worked great.
It's maybe just worth to mention that my antivirus put the last version and also this version into the quarantine immediately after the download. However both times I simply restored the program. The last version I could open then without any further problems, but this version doesn't work for some reason.
I also tried to open the program, while the antivirus is switched off, but it didn't work.

Since the previous versions worked: Do you know, what you changed since the last time, what could cause trouble?

Cut wrote:And I also assume, that you're not using Windows XP anymore (I mean, I doubt it but just to be safe I have to ask )? Because the new version uses VB.net libraries that are only available on Windows Vista and newer.

The OS of my PC was Win XP, but I upgraded it to Win 7 some time ago.
As I already said, my PC is quite old already and has a low performance (e.g. only 1Gb RAM ), but I'm actually quite sure that this can't be the reason.

Cut wrote:The AppData-file is usually invisible to an instance of the explorer without Administrator-rights. Try to open %appdata% in the explorer (just insert this and press Return), that should send you to AppData/Roaming. From there, you can go back to AppData and then to AppData/Local

I changed the settings in the control panel, so that the invisible folders will be visible, so I can enter the Appdata-folder. The problem is that in the Temp-folder, there aren't these 3 files. Maybe they're also invisible?

The error message can be seen below. I couldn't make the window bigger, so the last line is missing. The last line only includes a link to the offline version of the "Datenschutzbestimmungen".

Ok, I think the problem is actually caused by your antivirus-software then. I reuploaded the Combo Manager with an Install Wizard rather than a naked .exe-file, so that it shouldn't look suspicious to your software anymore -> viewtopic.php?t=25006

I don't really care about the tings, but I'd like to take guesses anyway

1234 wrote: 1.) items are in the game?
2.) yellow gems are in the game?
3.) red gems are in the game?
4.) piggybanks are in the game?
5.) mushrooms are in the game?
6.) hoodblaster are in the game?
7.) enemies are in the game (without the bosses and without the hoodflyer)?
8.) yellow gems are in the level, which has the most of them and what level is it?
8.) red gems are in the level, which has the most of them and what level is it?
9.) hoodblaster are in the level, which has the most of them and what level is it?
10.) yellow gems are in the part, which has the most of them and what part is it?

1.) I'd guess around 3.000, maybe?
2.) ~2.200?
3.) ~300?
4.) 102?
5.) 26?
6.) 107? Not counting the ones around Reflux, at least.
7.) ~300?
8.) LOTLD3 with 29?
9.) CF2 has 15 I believe, which should be the highest amount by a long shot.
10.) FC1, kappa. Nah, without even thinking about that, SBTC2. Don't know the exact amount, but at least 130?

BTW, writing the CF-Walkthrough got a bit delayed again because I had to test some more stuff in part 2, but I'm done now and should be able to finish it up soon.

FC first try: ~32k
CF:103.639 gave up master kaag combo
BOM: just finished 83.634
LOTLD:122.039
gotta play the rest when I want