Is Teensie Magician is the same person as Ray1 Magician?

[MicaFeresz]

ok,I haven't been on this forum for a while and realised that I trolled this forum too much as I posted the nonsense thing
sorry for that and I will try not to post flaming posts again(the flaming posts were Rabbids Hatepost,that time before Origins was released and I was frustrated)

ok,the topic is 'Is Teensie Magician is the same person as Ray1 Magician?',share you opinions here
as we all know that Rayman Origins magician is a Teensie and a admirer of Mr.Dark,but Is he the same person as Rayman 1 Magician who is the same specie as Rayman and in the protagonist side?
There are some theory said that Rayman Origins happened after Rayman 1 (and possibly after Rayman 2) because I have read somewhere that before the events of Rayman 2 Rayman was not very well-known,but in the intro scene of Origins it seemed that Rayman has already been a friend with Globox and others
the theory said that the trailer of Origins about Rayman's Birth was happened before Rayman 1 but the game itself happened after

there is no problem If Ray1 Betilla is the same person as Origins Betilla,It seemed to be like that and I believe that she is
but what about Magician case?
In Rayman 1 he was in the good side and straight-out Rayman's Specie and Origins he was a bad guy Teensie Follower of Mr.Dark,and his name 'Ales Mansay' mentioned for the Teensie one,and 'Magician' might be a Title and occupation rather than to be his real identity for me
and it's strange isn't it that someone who was in the Rayman's side became a antagonist,it would make sense if the story stated how he turned to that side,but nothing mentioned about that.
my opinion is,Teensie Magician(Ales Mansay) is probably not the same person with Rayman 1 Magician,but I don't know about canon story anyway
or if there are some canon information exposed,please tell me

What do you think about that?

Thank you and I'm sorry for all the flaming posts in the past

[Adsolution]

Wasn't it confirmed that he is? Correct me if I'm wrong, my attention to those sorts of details hasn't been stellar lately, but I recall something official stating so.

[MicaFeresz]

Wasn't it confirmed that he is? Correct me if I'm wrong, my attention to those sorts of details hasn't been stellar lately, but I recall something official stating so.

Umm. Where did they stated that? I would like to read/watch it

[Rulez]

Wasn't it confirmed that he is? Correct me if I'm wrong, my attention to those sorts of details hasn't been stellar lately, but I recall something official stating so.

Umm. Where did they stated that? I would like to read/watch it

Well he did say that he only recalls that.

[Serza5]

Raywiki has it down as they're both same so i'll just go with that. The way I see it, since he's a Magician then he's able to shape-shift explaining his new appearance.

[GNineify]

Meh, I like to think that they're separate characters, even if canon says otherwise. It would be interesting to have R1 Magician as the nice guy and then RO Magician as a some kind of guy mirroring him.

[Master]

Some aren't happy with the idea that he's the same character, as such, their personal canons have it that there is a difference.
From an official standpoint, I believe they are the same character, during development, the Magician had a design much more like the R1 design, but by the time the game was released, the only real similarity was the star hat.

[OCG]

What I used to believe until it was confirmed differently is that Ray1 Magician and Magician from RO were not same person. Infact, I thought RO Magician was just some Mr. Dark fanboy. I was very suprised when it was confirmed that Ray1 Magician is same Magician from RO. They do not share any similatities. One is really good and nature loving person while I believe other one is a Mr. Dark-wannabe and greedy Lum collector.

[Master]

I liked the change, I know some really revile the idea for the reason you described, but the fact that someone in the Glade could rise above the insanity, and be corrupted by the actions of others exhibits a unique complexity that I don't think the series sees.

[spiraldoor]

Well they're both named "The Magician" and there's no indication that they're meant to be different characters. Every other Rayman 1 character who reappeared was also redesigned heavily, so the fact that he's portrayed as a Teensy is hardly relevant. I never saw the Magician in the original game as a particularly "good and nature-loving person"; he's never explored as a character, but judging by the opening sequence he's an utter lunatic, so I can buy his betrayal easily.

My main problem is that not enough of his defining characteristics were retained for it to feel like the same character. What stood out about the Magician was that he had long blonde hair and a star-topped hat that covered his eyes. Giving him arms and legs is okay, but making his skin blue is a stretch, and turning his hair grey and making his eyes visible is a bridge too far. Yeah, he still has the distinctive Magician hat, but apart from that, there's not much to connect him to the character we met in the original game. In addition to the other characters' failure to react to the betrayal, this is why the ending of Rayman Origins fundamentally does not work.

[Adsolution]

While I've gotten used to the redesign and am now able to see him as the same person without thinking twice, I do fully agree with the above.

As concerns the transformation into a teensie, I can bite that so long as I use a tiny bit of my own head-canon by thinking of the Magician as someone who is normally a teensie, but can disguise himself of other forms if he wishes due to his exceptional magical talent when compared to the other members of his species. If I recall correctly, the part about him owning a higher magical ability over the others was actually written into the beta script for Origins.

Even though totally fictitious, I think it seems like a pretty logical and simple way to bridge that gap in my own head to increase my enjoyment of the series and lessen the confusion.

[Haruka]

Well they're both named "The Magician" and there's no indication that they're meant to be different characters. Every other Rayman 1 character who reappeared was also redesigned heavily, so the fact that he's portrayed as a Teensy is hardly relevant. I never saw the Magician in the original game as a particularly "good and nature-loving person"; he's never explored as a character, but judging by the opening sequence he's an utter lunatic, so I can buy his betrayal easily.

My main problem is that not enough of his defining characteristics were retained for it to feel like the same character. What stood out about the Magician was that he had long blonde hair and a star-topped hat that covered his eyes. Giving him arms and legs is okay, but making his skin blue is a stretch, and turning his hair grey and making his eyes visible is a bridge too far. Yeah, he still has the distinctive Magician hat, but apart from that, there's not much to connect him to the character we met in the original game. In addition to the other characters' failure to react to the betrayal, this is why the ending of Rayman Origins fundamentally does not work.

My exact thoughts.

I guess everything was said by other members too so I have nothing to add.

[Keane]

I don't like that they made him into just another teensie, only this one is bad. Hell, his original design would have been tons more fitting for who he is in Origins.

[OCG]

I don't like that they made him into just another teensie, only this one is bad. Hell, his original design would have been tons more fitting for who he is in Origins.

I guess they wanted to make Rayman one of the kind and no more Ray people besides him.

[Master]

Well, technically speaking, he's not the only Rayperson, barring his doppelgänger, we've also got Tar-Ray-Zan, who's meant to be Rayman's older cousin, and the result of the first attempt in creating Rayman.

[OCG]

Well, technically speaking, he's not the only Rayperson, barring his doppelgänger, we've also got Tar-Ray-Zan, who's meant to be Rayman's older cousin, and the result of the first attempt in creating Rayman.

I was referring to Origins. I meant to say that the reason why was Magician redisigned into Teensie was because UbiSoft wanted Rayman to be only Rayperson in newer games - One of a kind. I know he is not only Rayperson in first game. Heck, even Betilla did not have limbs in first game, but was redisigned in Origins to have normal human body.

[Master]

I speak in canonical terms, though Tar-Ray-Zan's situation is a little dubious, seeing as what I refer to was from a Beta script of Origins, not the final thing, I'd like to think that idea still remains.
Again, I don't mind the changes to species, 'tis for consistencies sake, and I treat it as a retcon (ie. they've always been like this, even in Rayman 1).

[spiraldoor]

I still think of all the reappearing characters in terms of the R1 designs. The original game was a big part of my life for a while. Everything about it has taken root in my mind. Origins is just a fleeting thing. It can't unseat it. The original is so perfect and pure and self-contained. No attempt to retcon it will stick.

His name is just Tarayzan, by the way. I have no idea where the hyphenated version comes from, but it's not in the game. That stuff about him being a botched attempt to create Rayman is a fan theory, maybe even mine (I don't know any more), but it makes sense in that it's hard to imagine any other way he could be Rayman's cousin.

[OCG]

R1 designs were the best. I really wish UbiSoft can release Rayman 2 2D version on PSN, XBLA and Steam.

[Master]

I still think of all the reappearing characters in terms of the R1 designs. The original game was a big part of my life for a while. Everything about it has taken root in my mind. Origins is just a fleeting thing. It can't unseat it. The original is so perfect and pure and self-contained. No attempt to retcon it will stick.

Each to their own, while there's no denying that The Magician and Betilla looked a heck of a lot better in Rayman 1, I'm glad they got rid of the bulging eye thing, that was a little odd for my tastes.
I'll admit, Origins doesn't compare with R1, but I try to make some sense of it, though petty, I admit.

His name is just Tarayzan, by the way. I have no idea where the hyphenated version comes from, but it's not in the game. That stuff about him being a botched attempt to create Rayman is a fan theory, maybe even mine (I don't know any more), but it makes sense in that it's hard to imagine any other way he could be Rayman's cousin.

Really? I've been using the hyphenated version as standard.
Hm, I wasn't really all that familiar with the place during RO's release, it could indeed just be me misremembering fact for theory, though I'm sure there was some official term suggesting a relation between the two.