Reverse-engineering donations

[Rock_TBT]

Since it has been awhile since a Rayman-game has been reverse-engineered, it may be unlikely that the archives will be reverse-engineered for free, since a coder doesn´t seems to be personally interested in them. In order to make the archives to be reverse-enginnered, I believe that a coder should be compensated financially, since that may be a way to motivate them to make their contributions. If each user on this forum donates a small amount, enough money may be raised to pay the coder to reverse-engineer the archives of Rayman-games, such as Rayman 3 and Rayman Raving Rabbids.

One milestone, could be to raise 100 pounds (131 USD).

What do you believe? Is this effort plausible?

[Master]

It sounds like a nice venture, but surely we should try to find someone capable of doing so before throwing money, lest it be lost to the abyss like a significant portion of crowdfunded projects.

[Rock_TBT]

It sounds like a nice venture, but surely we should try to find someone capable of doing so before throwing money, lest it be lost to the abyss like a significant portion of crowdfunded projects.

There are coders at VG-Resource, Xentax and Facepunch that may be of assistance. They do reverse-engineering on demand, if they get compensation. If we contact a coder there, we could work out a deal.

On the part of the forum of VG-Resource title Commissions, users can request the reverse-engineering of games in exchange for money: http://www.vg-resource.com/forum-132.html

On this part of the forum of Xentax, users can request game archives to be extracted. Some users will be more willing to help, if they get compensated. http://forum.xentax.com/viewforum.php?f ... fc1ed744c0

On this part of the forum of Facepunch, user can request models to be extracted from games. Some users will be more moticated, if they get money for their efforts. https://facepunch.com/forumdisplay.php?f=40

[Droolie]

Is it really worth throwing money at this kind of thing though? Extraction is already possible for most asset files, only things like level definitions remain a mystery. As for editing the archives, well... if people were really interested in modding Rayman games, we would have had more texture/music mods, don't you think?

Also, I don't know about any of the other forums, but it is forbidden to ask to pay/be paid for reverse-engineering on XeNTaX.

[Rock_TBT]

Also, I don't know about any of the other forums, but it is forbidden to ask to pay/be paid for reverse-engineering on XeNTaX.

I wasn´t aware of that. Could you please direct me to a source where that is explicitly stated?

Is it really worth throwing money at this kind of thing though? Extraction is already possible for most asset files, only things like level definitions remain a mystery.

There doesn´t seem to be any other way, apparently. The models and textures from the archives are still not accessible, and I doubt someone would extract them for free at this time. It all depends on the enthusiasm of the community on this forum.

[Droolie]

Also, I don't know about any of the other forums, but it is forbidden to ask to pay/be paid for reverse-engineering on XeNTaX.

I wasn´t aware of that. Could you please direct me to a source where that is explicitly stated?

The page you linked has a big yellow "forum rules" box at the top. Read the first rule.

Is it really worth throwing money at this kind of thing though? Extraction is already possible for most asset files, only things like level definitions remain a mystery.

There doesn´t seem to be any other way, apparently. The models and textures from the archives are still not accessible, and I doubt someone would extract them for free at this time. It all depends on the enthusiasm of the community on this forum.

Textures are accessible, maybe not from all versions of each game, but each game has full texture archives uploaded somewhere on this forum (e.g. Rayman 3's PC textures can only partly be extracted, but HD textures can easily be found in the PS3 version). As for models, there aren't many people interested in that.

[Rock_TBT]

As for models, there aren't many people interested in that.

According to this post, there seem to be users who are interested. The only thing that prevents them in the technology.
http://raymanpc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=24211

Could you give the links as to where those texture archives are accessible?

[GOT4N]

I pretty much agree with Droolie on that one. Also, for models, Szymekk and bunnieblaster are working a lot on this for Rayman 2, they're getting really far. For Rayman 3, I have my little idea of how the models are working, at least I managed to corrupt them and their textures, so I know where they're located. As for object switching, this is super weird, like, I can replace a bridge with a ladder or an eolien, but sometimes it just doesn't work, I wonder why tbh.
For textures, I posted the Rayman 3 PC textures recently in ULR topic, I might upload HD textures later. For Rayman 2 textures, same thing, I posted them before, I think the mobile games, Origins and Legends weren't covered, I don't have a Legends copy somewhere as I unistalled the game, but if I catch up uPlay again I might do it, aswell as Origins as Droolie gave me a script once, I thiiiink I have Rayman Fiesta Run textures converted to PNG?

[anaphasiia]

One milestone, could be to raise 100 pounds (131 USD).

For the amount of time needed to reverse-engineer, this isn't nearly enough. It would either be done as a hobby or not at all.

[Rock_TBT]

Also, for models, Szymekk and bunnieblaster are working a lot on this for Rayman 2, they're getting really far. For Rayman 3, I have my little idea of how the models are working, at least I managed to corrupt them and their textures, so I know where they're located. I think the mobile games, Origins and Legends weren't covered, I don't have a Legends copy somewhere as I unistalled the game, but if I catch up uPlay again I might do it, aswell as Origins as Droolie gave me a script once, I thiiiink I have Rayman Fiesta Run textures converted to PNG?

I assume that there hasn´t been any work regarding Rayman M, Rayman Raving Rabbids, Rayman Revolution or Rayman Raving Rabbids 2, since you didn´t mention them. If that would be the case, then Droolpirat´s statement that "Extraction is already possible for most asset files", would be invalid, since the asset files for most of the games are not available. Therefore, there would be a need to pay someone to extract the files, since those who can for free are not available to do so. Isn´t that the explanation for the absence of progress to begin with?

One milestone, could be to raise 100 pounds (131 USD).

For the amount of time needed to reverse-engineer, this isn't nearly enough. It would either be done as a hobby or not at all.

How much money would you say be enough? As I said before, it is only to motivate them. A gift of a sort, for their contributions. It is after all, a milestone and not the final value. Are you referring to the reverse-engineering of all archives or only one?

[anaphasiia]

It's not known how long a format might take to reverse-engineer, but if you're a freelancer, 100 pounds is hardly enough to even be a day's work, and I can't imagine it taking that much less than a day to completely decode a format such as a model or level file, if you're lucky. I would estimate upwards of 400 would be a larger motivator, and it would be gracious to pay more if it takes much longer.

[incognito]

Congratulations, you just made the price higher.

[Rock_TBT]

It's not known how long a format might take to reverse-engineer, but if you're a freelancer, 100 pounds is hardly enough to even be a day's work, and I can't imagine it taking that much less than a day to completely decode a format such as a model or level file, if you're lucky. I would estimate upwards of 400 would be a larger motivator, and it would be gracious to pay more if it takes much longer.

That is although rather subjective. I think the only way to truly know, is to contact the person in question who would do the work, and see what he suggests.

[GOT4N]

Also, for models, Szymekk and bunnieblaster are working a lot on this for Rayman 2, they're getting really far. For Rayman 3, I have my little idea of how the models are working, at least I managed to corrupt them and their textures, so I know where they're located. I think the mobile games, Origins and Legends weren't covered, I don't have a Legends copy somewhere as I unistalled the game, but if I catch up uPlay again I might do it, aswell as Origins as Droolie gave me a script once, I thiiiink I have Rayman Fiesta Run textures converted to PNG?

I assume that there hasn´t been any work regarding Rayman M, Rayman Raving Rabbids, Rayman Revolution or Rayman Raving Rabbids 2, since you didn´t mention them. If that would be the case, then Droolpirat´s statement that "Extraction is already possible for most asset files", would be invalid, since the asset files for most of the games are not available. Therefore, there would be a need to pay someone to extract the files, since those who can for free are not available to do so. Isn´t that the explanation for the absence of progress to begin with?

Rayman M: we already did, it's just the same format as Rayman 3, I've already extracted full textures aswell but encrypted, and from what I've checked, there isn't a lot of interesting things.
Rayman Revolution: we can already extract the map geometry, Droolie showed me how to do that.
RRR2: No one cares about this game, it's super bad, and like RRR, it's a really annoying format to work with. You gotta extract the bf files which gives you .bin files, which gives you around 2k .bin.dec files (just for RRR), not to mention that trying to reverse that shit is super hard, because very often, one byte different makes the game completely crashing. Good luck with that.
And on your quote "Therefore, there would be a need to pay someone to extract the files, since those who can for free are not available to do so", well we're trying, you're just not aware of what we're doing on ULR group, but you couldn't as we're only 4 to work on the project, I can only agree on RRR, no one cares in the group except me, just because of the annoyingness of the format..
Most of Rayman files are easy to decrypt, it's just a matter of "Probably nothing very interesting will come out, so why would we try"

[Rock_TBT]

Is it currently possible to access any models from any Rayman-game from the respective archives? Which progress have been made regarding the extraction of the models? Is there anyone that is currently active regarding the extraction of the models?

it's a really annoying format to work with /.../ , no one cares in the group except me, just because of the annoyingness of the format

If you are having difficulties with the custome file format, and someone else on this forum or at Xentax can´t be of any assisatnce, then do we have any other option than to pay someone to extract the custome format? If you give the progress that you have made on the custome format, the coder in question may not charge us as much for the extraction of the files.

[GOT4N]

Eh, in my opinion, it's just a waste of money
I mean, it's not fun if we try it ourselves as community. Eitherway, I doubt someone would even like to do it, this format is H O R R I B L E !
The only thing I've managed to do on this game is finding unused animations and skins, I've managed to find some prototype animations, but I never bothered to do a video

[Rock_TBT]

in my opinion, it's just a waste of money

Do we have any other option? That seems to be the only way to extract the archives, by hiring a professional.

[Imco]

in my opinion, it's just a waste of money

Do we have any other option?

Do we really care?

[GOT4N]

in my opinion, it's just a waste of money

Do we have any other option?

Do we really care?

^ this pretty much
Honestly, we're working on ULR for fun in this forum, it's just a sort of hobby for everyone, it's not priority, and it wouldn't reward us as much as the 100$ we spent for this
At the extreme limit, RRR would be close to that, because it has potential to have a lot (the most? either him, either Rayman 3) content from early platformer prototype (I found some animations of them), but it would even be as close as that, but not even worth it.

[Master]

Personally, I do want to see the Rayman games opened up to modding opportunities like many Sonic games have managed, but even so, I've never never been one for crowdfunding, and I don't really know if the aforementioned goal could even be achieved. The Sonic fandom has the advantage of having quite a large number of dedicated and accomplished reverse-engineers, we have a dedicated group of about four.