RGB SCART Cables For Consoles.

[Steo]

Does anyone know where I can get decent RGB SCART cables for my consoles? I have all these el cheapo ones where they have horrible audio interference depending on what's being displayed due to lack of shielding. I wasn't expecting much as these cables were all only about €5 each but I have no problem buying one or two per week paying about €20 per cable if I have to, starting with my PS2 as I play that a lot lately.

I'm just wondering does anyone know a trustworthy place online to buy them? I know they're all over ebay, but just because a seller lists it as "high quality" doesn't mean it's "high quality".

I'll be grateful for any suggestions.

[Hoodcom]

For anyone within the UK, I'd suggest this online store:
https://retrogamingcables.co.uk/

For anyone within the US, I'd suggest Retro Accessories, who used to be on eBay:
https://retro-access.com/collections/ve ... ccessories

I'd also recommend My Life in Gaming's RGB Master Class series regarding getting the best quality out of your game consoles, as well as RetroRGB.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 9D2YQ4rwnZ

http://www.retrorgb.com/


There's certainly a lot that you can do with your game consoles, and you'll get a good idea from these sources on which consoles have to be modded for RGB output, which consoles have to be modded for better RGB output (Such as the SNES), and which ones have native RGB output.


Also, it's a deep rabbit hole to dive into, especially if you're serious. Whether it's to get the best for your consumer CRT television, the best for your professional CRT monitor, computer CRT monitor in some cases, or your modern HDTV with appropriate scaling solutions.

Then of course, let's not forget the SCART switchers available as well.

I've spend a lot of money with my investments in getting the best I can out of my game consoles with my home theater system with my OLED HDTV. While most people think "Ew, HDTV", I feel that factor is more or less due to how the LCD technology is along with the built in scalers within the HDTVs in general.

Personally I feel OLED honestly rivals CRT, as it gives me the true black levels I want out of my display. The colors are beautiful. (Granted, a lot of LCDs now days are actually looking pretty good as far as colors go.). Then honestly, if it weren't for the stupid image processing features, if you make an OLED monitor with out the unnecessary bull crap, there's practically no lag to worry about. I can't wait for that day to come.

While true, you don't have official scanlines out of an HDTV, but hey, there are solutions out there for artificial scanlines if that is what you desire. I know I do, but I'm not fussy enough to absolutely have it.


My apologies if I've rambled on a bit, but I'm hoping for this information to be available for everyone to look back and see. Especially for the resources available.

[Steo]

Thanks Hoodcom. While they're clearly a lot more expensive I know it'll be worth it when you can get a decent picture and no audio interference from them. I use any consumer CRT I can get for my older games as my 4K TV is a Panasonic 50EX700B LED TV so playing older games on it is basically out of the question. I'm always on the lookout to try find a better CRT but it's hard to find one you like that hasn't been abused for years at this stage.

I know this is a bit off topic but if a CRT is switched off then you get an orange glow that can kind of pulsate a bit but usually fades after 5 minutes, does that mean something's wrong or it's dangerous to use? It works fine when it's on but when you power it off if glows orange / amber near the middle or sometimes a bit blue at the bottom and it moves towards the center and turns orange. It's always different shapes.

Even though it works fine when powered on, is it going to blow up?

[Hoodcom]

I can't answer your question regarding your CRT, but I can answer your PM here. I'm answering it here so when anyone else is seeking the same answers, it could help them out.

Sorry for bothering you again but I'm getting a bit confused here looking at the cables. What's the difference between (composite video + sync) and just CSYNC?

There's 2 different Jaguar cables on that site listed as one and the other. I seen that some other cables like PS2 and SNES etc. have LUMA sync and for some reason cost less than CSYNC but isn't LUMA sync actually meant to be better?

I'd like to RGB mod my N64 also but I'll search that one up instead of driving you crazy

Composite carries all the signals, color, brightness, and sync. Thus why it's a bit of a mess.

S-Video consists of separate Luma and Chroma signals, in its case, the sync signal rides along the Luma signal.

Component cables, Y, Pb, Pr basically carries Luma + Sync signal on the green cable.

Now things are much different when it comes to RGBs, especially from console to console. Some simply tap the sync signal from the Composite video output (Sync on Composite), some tap off Luma. Then some systems use Composite Sync (CSYNC) which has absolutely nothing to do with sync riding along with any picture information. Pretty confusing name for something that has nothing to do with Composite video at all.

Simply put, CSYNC is the horizontal and vertical sync are composed together, and run on their own wire. This is to differ itself from VGA, which is still an RGB connection, but rather than it being RGBs, it is RGBHV as the horizontal and vertical sync signals are separated. Each running on their own wire.

Now with that said, I suggest you take a look at the video below for more information as they cover the differences well. Not only do they explain it well, but you also will see visuals to why sync on composite won't look as good as sync on Luma or CSYNC.
Keep in mind, some consoles give you limited options on what kind of sync is offered, so you would have put in some research. Fortunately they have a lot of game consoles already covered in their RGB series.

[Steo]

Ah cool I get you now. Basically it won't carry any CVBS composite signal if it uses LUMA or CSYNC which just means if you plug it into a TV that doesn't support RGB it just won't work right? But as a result you get a much cleaner RGB image with less interference.

I think that's what you mean. So basically the sync on composite video cables are just to allow the backwards compatibility of CVBS signal but you won't have an image as good from them.

[PluMGMK]

I know this is a bit off topic but if a CRT is switched off then you get an orange glow that can kind of pulsate a bit but usually fades after 5 minutes, does that mean something's wrong or it's dangerous to use? It works fine when it's on but when you power it off if glows orange / amber near the middle or sometimes a bit blue at the bottom and it moves towards the center and turns orange. It's always different shapes.

That sounds more like the behaviour of the human eye than a CRT, which is strange. If it's moving I guess that means there's still a weak electron beam in there, which I would be concerned about. Like, the fading would be due to the cathode cooling down and not giving them off anymore, but if they're making it as far as the screen that means there's still some voltage between the anode and cathode, which shouldn't be the case.
Or maybe it's some weird thermodynamic stuff going on with the phosphors in the screen, in which case I wouldn't be too worried.

[Steo]

That sounds more like the behaviour of the human eye than a CRT, which is strange. If it's moving I guess that means there's still a weak electron beam in there, which I would be concerned about. Like, the fading would be due to the cathode cooling down and not giving them off anymore, but if they're making it as far as the screen that means there's still some voltage between the anode and cathode, which shouldn't be the case.
Or maybe it's some weird thermodynamic stuff going on with the phosphors in the screen, in which case I wouldn't be too worried.

Thanks for the reply.

I took that last night after I powered it off and I had to take the picture when the room was dark. It had been on for a few hours when I was playing the PS2. Notice the blue glow also just under the orange and slightly to the right?

I can video it too if I have to but it's weird, sometimes it's less and sometimes there's no blue. Sometimes it moves into like a horizontal line that's a lot brighter or sometimes goes into a circle and can sometimes pulsate a bit for a few moments. If it won't explode I'm fine but if it will I'll pay someone to bring me another CRT and bin this

It looks absolutely fine when it's powered on.

EDIT: Here's a video. It's probably not great with all the macro blocking and it was out of focus until I moved closer at the end but you get the idea.

As soon as I switched it off you see some blue and orange just slightly, then the center just lights up.

[PluMGMK]

Hmm. That's very odd. That spot definitely could not appear without voltage between the anode and cathode. Transition from a weaker dispersed picture to a bright spot suggests that voltage is draining from the control circuitry to the actual electron gun. I'd say there are capacitors out of whack in there…

[Steo]

Hmm. That's very odd. That spot definitely could not appear without voltage between the anode and cathode. Transition from a weaker dispersed picture to a bright spot suggests that voltage is draining from the control circuitry to the actual electron gun. I'd say there are capacitors out of whack in there…

Probably the most likely reason then. For the sake of my safety though since I've never worked on a CRT PSU before and they hold a lot of charge am I best off just trying to get another one?

The other portable one I have does this weird thing where the picture loses sync if the image gets bright then suddenly darker. It will flicker momentarily then AV comes up and the picture somes back. I assume that again is a PSU fault. Sigh, I can't get a bit of luck, all I want is a normal functioning CRT. Apparently that's too much to ask

By the way, If I turn the TV back on while that glow is there the initial degauss interferes with it. You see the orange flicker like an old CRT monitor would when you pressed degauss. As soon as I press the channel button to make it power on then it disappears.

I guess it's the beam itself from the Cathode I'm seeing then.

[Hoodcom]

Ah cool I get you now. Basically it won't carry any CVBS composite signal if it uses LUMA or CSYNC which just means if you plug it into a TV that doesn't support RGB it just won't work right? But as a result you get a much cleaner RGB image with less interference.

I think that's what you mean. So basically the sync on composite video cables are just to allow the backwards compatibility of CVBS signal but you won't have an image as good from them.

Well the primary issue with sync on composite is it has to get the sync signal from a composite output. Which can cause interference as you may have seen in that video. Such as a checkerboard pattern.

It's just that using sync on luma is much cleaner because there's less picture information to cause interference.

CSYNC is just a separate signal, not having been tied to anything else.

It's not so much the compatibility with a monitor as it is what the source was designed to supply. Some devices may need a sync stripper to function correctly, like some scalers.


I really suggest taking a look at the videos.

[Steo]

Well the primary issue with sync on composite is it has to get the sync signal from a composite output. Which can cause interference as you may have seen in that video. Such as a checkerboard pattern.

It's just that using sync on luma is much cleaner because there's less picture information to cause interference.

CSYNC is just a separate signal, not having been tied to anything else.

It's not so much the compatibility with a monitor as it is what the source was designed to supply. Some devices may need a sync stripper to function correctly, like some scalers.


I really suggest taking a look at the videos.

I will do thanks. By compatibility I meant if you happen to have such an old TV that it doesn't support RGB it will still have composite video as a backup, but the TV would have to be a dinosaur

I know what you mean by interference as I'm experiencing it on the cheap PS2 cable along with ghosting that I have to use for now, but I'll order a Luma PS2 one next week.

I didn't trust that CRT so I just found another cheap one, it looked awful so I had to adjust the focus potentiometer, slightly adjust the convergence magnets and lower the contrast down which results in a nice clear picture now compared to that horrible looking thing it was when I started. I was about to give up hope when I seen how blurry it was thinking I'll just never get a decent CRT but thankfully it looks great after the convergence, focus and contrast adjustments. I don't need it to be that bright anyway as it will just give me headaches. I actually lowered the Cathode Driver Level down also in the service menu.

The only problem now is that all the RGB cables usually use 5v for 16:9 instead of 12v for 4:3 and I have no option to force 4:3 on this TV meaning I have to change it every time. I resized the 16:9 screen in the service menu to the same size as 4:3 but it uses some stupid dynamic contrast setting in 16:9 I can't sisable causing some blurring again.

Overall though I have a CRT that won't explode (hopefully) and an RGB cable on the way for my Jaguar with more to be ordered.

I will also watch that video from start to finish, thanks Hoodcom

EDIT: Just received my CSYNC RGB SCART for Jaguar today but never got the controller yet I ordered last week

[Hoodcom]

I will do thanks. By compatibility I meant if you happen to have such an old TV that it doesn't support RGB it will still have composite video as a backup, but the TV would have to be a dinosaur

Ah, right. I suppose if you were an electronics engineer you could modify the circuitry to accept RGBs.

I didn't trust that CRT so I just found another cheap one, it looked awful so I had to adjust the focus potentiometer, slightly adjust the convergence magnets and lower the contrast down which results in a nice clear picture now compared to that horrible looking thing it was when I started. I was about to give up hope when I seen how blurry it was thinking I'll just never get a decent CRT but thankfully it looks great after the convergence, focus and contrast adjustments. I don't need it to be that bright anyway as it will just give me headaches. I actually lowered the Cathode Driver Level down also in the service menu.

The only problem now is that all the RGB cables usually use 5v for 16:9 instead of 12v for 4:3 and I have no option to force 4:3 on this TV meaning I have to change it every time. I resized the 16:9 screen in the service menu to the same size as 4:3 but it uses some stupid dynamic contrast setting in 16:9 I can't sisable causing some blurring again.

Overall though I have a CRT that won't explode (hopefully) and an RGB cable on the way for my Jaguar with more to be ordered.

I will also watch that video from start to finish, thanks Hoodcom

Were you afraid that the other one would explode?

Though I'm glad you've managed to get another one looking great! Though I guess the benefit of turning the cathode driver level down is you'd probably help increase the life span of the CRT tube.

Does the bright images really give you a headache? If you seriously think a CRT is bright, I'd hate to imagine how you'd feel against a modern TV with HDR support.

[Steo]

Ah, right. I suppose if you were an electronics engineer you could modify the circuitry to accept RGBs.

I just have to get over my fear of being electocuted by a CRT first

Does the bright images really give you a headache? If you seriously think a CRT is bright, I'd hate to imagine how you'd feel against a modern TV with HDR support.

Well no I actually max out my 4k TV's backlight but this CRT is really far too bright. It has very bad blurring / distortion unless the contrast is set at about 1/4 of the max level or below.

Not so much it would give me a headache just maybe some eyestrain at night since I sit so close to it

I am considering getting an OLED when I have money so how does that work for the retro games? I hear they scale way better like you said but what about input lag, is that decent? You'd need very low input lag for SNES, NES, Sega Mega Drive / Genesis titles. Classic Mario is a good example.

[Hoodcom]

I just have to get over my fear of being electocuted by a CRT first

You're already messing with the convergence, I think you're fine. (Plus you're already well ahead of me in that department.)

Well no I actually max out my 4k TV's backlight but this CRT is really far too bright. It has very bad blurring / distortion unless the contrast is set at about 1/4 of the max level or below.

Not so much it would give me a headache just maybe some eyestrain at night since I sit so close to it

I am considering getting an OLED when I have money so how does that work for the retro games? I hear they scale way better like you said but what about input lag, is that decent? You'd need very low input lag for SNES, NES, Sega Mega Drive / Genesis titles. Classic Mario is a good example.

Is your 4k TV HDR, and have you played HDR content through it? Though I've heard it is a challenge to get it all configured right, since it's not exactly a plug and play solution.


Dude, don't ever second guess yourself at choosing an OLED.

They will generally offer lower input lag than your LCD variety, such as your 4k for example. Though let's take the TV's specialized processors and image enhancers and misc crap out of the picture. Let's just pretend these are raw monitors without the bullcrap. LCD panel itself, even, has a natural lag of sorts, while the OLED panel itself is so fast, you can damn well near consider it CRT like as far as speeds go.

However, until we get a proper OLED monitor, we're stuck with a "smart tv" that has all the crap to deal with. Though usually you're pretty safe on the OLEDs for gaming anyway. Especially with game mode enabled while disabling all the unnecessary crap.

General HDTV lags aside, OLED is definitely by far superior as far as color quality goes. What really helps this so much is the fact you have true black levels. When the pixel is off, it's off. Since they are self lit.

LCD panels must rely on an external light source, such as the older CCFL they started out with, before LED back lighting became the norm. (Thus another way of achieving lighter weight LCD HDTVs and possibly brighter picture as well.) Though it still depends on the make and model, because some can still have rather poor LED back lighting designs, and many of the good ones will have some nice even lighting.

Again though, the LCD technology has come a long way still, I've seen some of Samsung's at Best Buy and they were admittedly stunning, but they still can't quite hold a candle to OLED because of the simple fact true black levels are just impossible on LCD.

I still have my 52" Samsung HDTV (With the ol' CCFL backlighting), I've always thought it looked really great. I remember playing Ratchet and Clank Tools of Destruction on it for the first time and being in awe. Was a great TV, but the backlight bleed always annoyed the hell out of me. Skyrim always looked washed out as well.

Though I knew what to expect when I first laid my eyes on an OLED screen, which is what my PSVita has, and when I got my LG OLED a couple of years ago I fell in love. I knew then that I would never go back to LCD ever again. As soon as an OLED comes out as a PC monitor I'm so grabbing one!


Though to get back to your question, scaling really depends on how you hook it up. If you're thinking that you'll hook composite up to an OLED, then I'd say forget it. (I'm sure that's not what you intend. =P) For any HDTV or monitor, OLED or LCD, I'd seriously recommend investing in the proper scaling solutions. Such as those reviewed by the MLiG crew. Main ones being the XRGB-Mini Framemeister and then the OSSC. Former is actually an image scaler that processes everything, also giving you complete control of the image settings to enhance it, while the latter is simply a line doubler that goes up to 4x or 5x.

Now, obviously at this point you'll probably want to buy a 4k OLED over a 1080P model. I personally own the 1080P model as 4k version was more than my budget at the time. 4k models are affordable now, and I personally would choose that. This is where we do question the scaling on the OLED. 1080P input is a perfect scale to 4k, and rather easy for it to handle.

Now, the Framemeister itself can only output 1080P. The OSSC can go beyond that, which can be even nicer with a 4k TV.

My Life in Gaming will be releasing a 4k episode in the near future, possibly within a few months. I know Try4ce has been working on this as per his discussions on their Sunday livestreams. If you want to wait, will have to wait anyway before you can purchase a new TV, or just don't care and buy one anyway, it'll be a really great episode to watch.


I know some of what Try's going to cover since I've helped him out with a couple of things, but I'm not going to spoil it for you.

[Steo]

I may well consider getting an OLED then. My TV is a Panasonic 50Ex700B and it claims to have HDR though people are saying it actually doesn't have the hardware to properly produce HDR. It's a VA panel my TV has so the black levels are a lot better than most TVs but it's still not going to match an OLED or even get close clearly.

I know how black OLED is because I have an S8 and the peak brightness is up near 1000nits on most. My TV actually only produces 400nits I think.

I'll need a lot of money as they're far from cheap and I'll have to pick one I like. I might try afford one by Christmas and sell my old one since it's still relatively new.

[Hoodcom]

I may well consider getting an OLED then. My TV is a Panasonic 50Ex700B and it claims to have HDR though people are saying it actually doesn't have the hardware to properly produce HDR. It's a VA panel my TV has so the black levels are a lot better than most TVs but it's still not going to match an OLED or even get close clearly.

I know how black OLED is because I have an S8 and the peak brightness is up near 1000nits on most. My TV actually only produces 400nits I think.

I'll need a lot of money as they're far from cheap and I'll have to pick one I like. I might try afford one by Christmas and sell my old one since it's still relatively new.

Is that one of the early adopters of the tech?

Hopefully you'll also find some good deals by Christmas as well. That's when I picked mine up, and even got a $150 gift card from Amazon. I used that on games of course!

[Steo]

Is that one of the early adopters of the tech?

Hopefully you'll also find some good deals by Christmas as well. That's when I picked mine up, and even got a $150 gift card from Amazon. I used that on games of course!

I think it's just low mid range as it cost €700. it likely just has a more or less emulated version of HDR instead of a proper screen and video chip capable of actual HDR. If I had it again I'd of waited and kept saving for an OLED. Not that it's a bad TV or anything but I know I can have better

Also using the OLED for retro would be so cool

[Hoodcom]

I think it's just low mid range as it cost €700. it likely just has a more or less emulated version of HDR instead of a proper screen and video chip capable of actual HDR. If I had it again I'd of waited and kept saving for an OLED. Not that it's a bad TV or anything but I know I can have better

Also using the OLED for retro would be so cool

It happens. Sometimes at the given time you may not realize you would have changed your mind.

It's cool alright. Also LG's setup utilizes WOLED. If I remember correctly, I believe they utilize a color filter in front of the RGB pixels while having a white sub pixel in place.

From my understanding it's to help with the overall brightness of the picture and due to the nature of manufacturing the panels, they apparently can't make actual RGB ones this size. Or haven't been able to, compared to the mobile devices.

Plus I think there were issues in the past where pure blue OLEDs would wear out quicker? Which is why there's a color filter instead.

Here are some close up pictures of Tails (Sonic 3 & Knuckles) from my Sega Genesis upscaled with the XRGB-Mini Framemeister.



Perhaps later I'll get some comparison shots of my TV between the Framemeister and OSSC with Final Fantasy III on my SNES.

[Steo]

Perhaps later I'll get some comparison shots of my TV between the Framemeister and OSSC with Final Fantasy III on my SNES.

That'd be nice to see

Also LG's 4k LED TV's aren't good imo at least the cheaper ones, trust me

I know the higher end ones likely are and the OLED's definitely are but I had a cheap 4k LED one and I gave my parents it for less than half what I paid because they wouldn't care. The black levels were awful like worst I've ever seen on anything. It's just grey and not even dary grey imo.

RGBW is fine on OLED as it has a good layout but Here's the RGBW layout on the LCD.

Notice it's a stupid layout making 1080p have no way of scaling correctly here? 1080P scales much better on my 4k Panasonic VA panel since it uses RGB. I think it would have been fine if the pixels were straight but here they cheaped out by the look of it meaning a true 4K image on this panel will only scale correctly without colour.

Basically it uses the same amount of sub-pixels as a normal RGB TV would but with white and every second row alternates. I think that was a stupid idea but lets see what others think.

[Hoodcom]

I can certainly see why OLED might would need it. Though I fail to see why LCD would considering you could just use brighter backlighting.

Though I can see how it effects the clarity. After all the days of monochrome displays for computers to CGA showed a difference in how sharp your text was too. I've heard LG has to do this due to the manufacturing process of such large panels anyway, where normal RGB layout isn't ideal right now?