Talk:Dark Rayman: Difference between revisions

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:Despite this, why did they call him "Shadow Ray" in RA, and not "Dark Rayman" like they did in RL? Unfortunately, we don't have the answer to that question...

:From a lore point of view, it's very confusing: Originally, Dark Ray was a mindless evil clone created by a spell. But between RL and RA, he manages to become a good being in the flesh with a mind and a passion for old movies. Although it's confusing, it isn't crazy: Everything is possible in the Glade of Dreams. We don't have any official explanation, so everyone can speculate on the reasons. Maybe he changed his nature after his "defeat" in RL, or maybe it's Polokus who gave a real life to him. Who knows?--[[User:Boomboleros7|Boomboleros7]] 17:47, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

::That's the thing, we need to limit speculation and try and present the facts as-is, it's up to the reader to draw their own conclusions. The issue is deciding what incarnations are worthy of having their own character page, as [[Raymesis]] and [[Dark Rayman (Rayman Arena)]] have, and which to keep on the main [[Dark Rayman]] page. Thus far, it appears our rationale for articles is to have non-sentient follower clones on the main page, and have any sentient clones on their own page. If memory serves, this is the route Humch wanted to stick with, where we simply note connections between sentient and non-sentient clones, as we did Raymesis and R1 BadRay. I don't really find the idea too appealing from a lore standpoint, but it's probably the least speculative route. --[[File:Sig5 2TEST.png|150px|link=User:Master]] 00:12, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

:::By using only facts, I see four Dark Rayman in the ''Rayman'' series:

:::"The blue one"

:::Roles: Enemy in ''Rayman'', Playable character in ''Rayman Origins'', ''Rayman Jungle Run'', ''Rayman Legends'', ''Rayman Fiesta Run'' and ''Rayman Adventures''

:::Justification: Same physic. Polokus recognizes the evil clone of RO as the one who appear in R1.

:::"The black one"

:::Roles: Enemy in ''Rayman Legends'', Playable character in ''Rayman Adventures''

:::Justification: Same physic.

:::"The X one"

:::Role: Playable character in ''Rayman Arena''

:::Justification: His physic and his behavior are different from the evil clone of R1.

:::"The mysterious one"

:::Role: Enemy in ''Rayman 4''

:::Justification: We can't tell if it was the evil clone of R1, Arena or a new character. We should speak about him on the disambiguation page.

::::Indeed, though this approach outright states that DarkRay in Legends is ShadowRay, which is never firmly established in a title, the only similarity is in their appearance. If we're to be less speculative, they should be kept separate. The second issue is with Raymesis, presently we're presenting him as someone who may be connected to Rayman 1 BadRay, and Polokus' statement in Origins as either confusion or a hint. Prior to Legend's release, we had BadRay as the playable character. But then with Legends he was shown as Raymesis, and another DarkRay was shown. Back when that happened, I was of opinion that this was a new DarkRay, but even so, it fits the context of what the original DarkRay article protrayed him as, a spell, not a sentient character. I think that's what is murking the waters with Raymesis, separating a character from a spell. A spell that seemingly expired too.

::::DarkRay from Arena is simple, that stay separate. Then for Rayman 4 DarkRay, while it's probable they were intending for him to be the same as Rayman 1 BadRay, it was never confirmed. As such, I guess the best thing to do is as you've stated, having them on the disambig page.

::::With that in mind, we effectively have "BadRay (Evil Spell)," "DarkRay (Arena)," "Raymesis," "ShadowRay," and "DarkRay (Rayaman 4 cancelled)"

::::--[[File:Sig5 2TEST.png|150px|link=User:Master]] 20:16, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

:::::After a discussion with Hunch, we arrive to the same conclusion.

:::::So all we have to do is create a new page for Shadow Ray. And we will precise that he has an unclear connection with the Dark Rayman of RL, like Bad Rayman and Raymesis.

:::::We should also change the presentation of the Bad Rayman page, to distinguish the evil clone of R1 and the one of RL, who aren’t generated by the same spell.

:::::Also, we must move the content about the Dark Rayman of R4 on the disambiguation page.--[[User:Boomboleros7|Boomboleros7]] 20:50, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 :Despite this, why did they call him "Shadow Ray" in RA, and not "Dark Rayman" like they did in RL? Unfortunately, we don't have the answer to that question...
 :From a lore point of view, it's very confusing: Originally, Dark Ray was a mindless evil clone created by a spell. But between RL and RA, he manages to become a good being in the flesh with a mind and a passion for old movies. Although it's confusing, it isn't crazy: Everything is possible in the Glade of Dreams. We don't have any official explanation, so everyone can speculate on the reasons. Maybe he changed his nature after his "defeat" in RL, or maybe it's Polokus who gave a real life to him. Who knows?--[[User:Boomboleros7|Boomboleros7]] 17:47, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
+::That's the thing, we need to limit speculation and try and present the facts as-is, it's up to the reader to draw their own conclusions. The issue is deciding what incarnations are worthy of having their own character page, as [[Raymesis]] and [[Dark Rayman (Rayman Arena)]] have, and which to keep on the main [[Dark Rayman]] page. Thus far, it appears our rationale for articles is to have non-sentient follower clones on the main page, and have any sentient clones on their own page. If memory serves, this is the route Humch wanted to stick with, where we simply note connections between sentient and non-sentient clones, as we did Raymesis and R1 BadRay. I don't really find the idea too appealing from a lore standpoint, but it's probably the least speculative route. --[[File:Sig5 2TEST.png|150px|link=User:Master]] 00:12, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
+:::By using only facts, I see four Dark Rayman in the ''Rayman'' series:
+:::"The blue one"
+:::Roles: Enemy in ''Rayman'', Playable character in ''Rayman Origins'', ''Rayman Jungle Run'', ''Rayman Legends'', ''Rayman Fiesta Run'' and ''Rayman Adventures''
+:::Justification: Same physic. Polokus recognizes the evil clone of RO as the one who appear in R1.
+:::"The black one"
+:::Roles: Enemy in ''Rayman Legends'', Playable character in ''Rayman Adventures''
+:::Justification: Same physic.
+:::"The X one"
+:::Role: Playable character in ''Rayman Arena''
+:::Justification: His physic and his behavior are different from the evil clone of R1.
+:::"The mysterious one"
+:::Role: Enemy in ''Rayman 4''
+:::Justification: We can't tell if it was the evil clone of R1, Arena or a new character. We should speak about him on the disambiguation page.
+::::Indeed, though this approach outright states that DarkRay in Legends is ShadowRay, which is never firmly established in a title, the only similarity is in their appearance. If we're to be less speculative, they should be kept separate. The second issue is with Raymesis, presently we're presenting him as someone who may be connected to Rayman 1 BadRay, and Polokus' statement in Origins as either confusion or a hint. Prior to Legend's release, we had BadRay as the playable character. But then with Legends he was shown as Raymesis, and another DarkRay was shown. Back when that happened, I was of opinion that this was a new DarkRay, but even so, it fits the context of what the original DarkRay article protrayed him as, a spell, not a sentient character. I think that's what is murking the waters with Raymesis, separating a character from a spell. A spell that seemingly expired too.
+::::DarkRay from Arena is simple, that stay separate. Then for Rayman 4 DarkRay, while it's probable they were intending for him to be the same as Rayman 1 BadRay, it was never confirmed. As such, I guess the best thing to do is as you've stated, having them on the disambig page.
+::::With that in mind, we effectively have "BadRay (Evil Spell)," "DarkRay (Arena)," "Raymesis," "ShadowRay," and "DarkRay (Rayaman 4 cancelled)"
+::::--[[File:Sig5 2TEST.png|150px|link=User:Master]] 20:16, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
+:::::After a discussion with Hunch, we arrive to the same conclusion.
+:::::So all we have to do is create a new page for Shadow Ray. And we will precise that he has an unclear connection with the Dark Rayman of RL, like Bad Rayman and Raymesis.
+:::::We should also change the presentation of the Bad Rayman page, to distinguish the evil clone of R1 and the one of RL, who aren’t generated by the same spell.
+:::::Also, we must move the content about the Dark Rayman of R4 on the disambiguation page.--[[User:Boomboleros7|Boomboleros7]] 20:50, 8 June 2016 (UTC)